believe it or not do trust her, I just am suspicious...

[jmargel]

Nice letter, it came from your heart. Now give it to her & let her make the next move. As for her past, you've known her for 17 years. She was young then, so you need to disregard what anyone has said about her in the past.

 

It'll be interesting to see how she reacts to it. Let us know how it goes.

 

-Jeff

[Poconobob]

For the past week post the last arguement, she has been COLD, COLD....Ring is back off once more. Man I hate that, to me it symbolizes "availability".... and is like saying OKAY, I'm not married today. I'm sure to her it is a sign of protest as she has said that to me... I did say to her PLEASE give me one more chance earlier after the fight, I said I want to end the fighting....the back and forth stuff where each tried to hurt the other for each action. Moreover, I saw her recoil so I know that was a dumb thing to do.....dumb dumb dumb

 

BTW, I type better than I write, manuscript isn't the best....so is it okay to type it out or would I be more personal to slowly write it out? It being the "love letter"....

 

This week, I have felt guilty for calling her on the movie...I don't like hurting her even if we're over, it isn't in my nature to hurt her like that. I just had enough....and stood up to her.

 

Now I feel like I shouldn't have but as you said, I had to confront her on things; I just did it in a wrong way, I should have talked, LISTENED, addressed, and not fought.

 

My doctor said it is over, she is making it clear what she wantdivorce...and moving is just step one.....then he said she'll divorce for sure as he said she is now disbanded from the family. He asked me if she is nice to the pets??? I thought it odd but I told him she is coming home, eating, exercising, and then going in her room with no contact with son, animals, and I don't see her....

He said I have one hope, that she moves out and then sees that she doesn't want that.....but he doubts it. He said she'll probably think she likes it as there is nobody to fight with....BUT she is used to being around us, used to being needed and will feel more regret but if her emotion is stronger than her regret or lack of liking being alone and she gets deep into thought, it would take HER to come round but he said she is stubborn and is so so so deep into the emotion .....

 

bob

[jmargel]

Writing it out has a more personal touch, but I don't think it truly matters either way. She's not going to care about that.

 

Your doctor is right, that she is detaching herself. I still think she has a bout of depression, which she needs to address. But unless she talks to someone, no one can help her.

 

Remember not all of this is your fault. So the thing about the movie wouldn't have made any difference about saving the marriage. I just hope she has someone she can trust and talk to. Really the only thing you can do now, is give her the letter, and hope someday she comes to you. In the mean time keep improving on yourself.

[VivianLee]

Bob,

I'm so sorry you are hurting. I can imagine how heartbroken you are. My heart felt advice to you is to give her that letter then PLEASE leave her alone!! I feel bad to be so harsh but your posts about her, you're analysis and other things make me feel smothered and I don't even live with you....you are seriously co-dependent towards her and you need to get help for the co-dependence over everything else.

 

First of all it's asinine to even bring up things said about her when y'all were dating especially by a jaded boyfriend....if you listened to such crap back then and still think about it....dang, I don't even know what to say or what you are getting at....that she was a slut then changed and then went back to being a slut?? Weren't you having sex with her in the pool? You could have turned her down....I'm sure you were an angel before y'all hooked up! That's some mighty strong male chauvinism you are showing.....I hope to goodness you haven't brought that up to her....you'd be lucky to leave the convo without a handprint across your face!

 

As far as who is wrong and who is right....the marriage did have its good times and you both have hurt each AND have stood by each other BUT do you have any idea what it could have been like for her to live with someone dependent on drugs and running up debts? You weren't on the receiving end of that situation, for her to have made it for 7 years is amazing! She, no doubt stood by you during that awful time for much longer than most people. Bob, everyone has their limit, no one is a saint or perfect, unless she was in to martyrdom, she reached her limit. During that 7 years of debts being built up, worrying and running the home and her job, I'm sure she lost something for you.....it probably was gradual but eventually it happened. It would be great if she could just erase it all from her mind and get her feelings back, I'm sure she wishes she could. But it's gone and saying you are sorry 1000 times isn't going to bring that back and you shouldn't blame her for that. She's only human. If your son is acting like you in the way that's been bothering her then it's normal for her not to want to be around him, she can still love him and see to him (by that I don't mean she has to have a hot meal on the table for him....it WILL NOT kill him to go to a drive-through and get some food if he's hungry....I've got a 17 yr old and she knows how to find food or anything else when she needs it).....if every step she takes is being analysed and looked into as a negative thing then she feels cornered both of you. Mothers can still love their children but not want to be around them when they are being negative (I don't mean abandon them!)....

 

We've only heard you're side of the story albeit you have revealed alot that would be spoken from her side.....you reveal the bad things then you give excuse (which is human nature) or you say "she should forgive"....she may can forgive you one day....but as far as getting over it or wanting to work it out with you, that just may be over, her limit has been reached. You can keep on at her till she doesn't even want to be friends with you after the divorce OR you can show your love for her by letting her go and breathe again. I do wish your being sorry and seeing the light would be enough but it's probably too late....that's not about blame but it is about regret....you will have to learn to handle the regret but not wallow in it. We all make mistakes.

 

You will be okay, you will have to learn to suck it up and quit worrying about tomorrow, you can't control her or tomorrow or anyone or anything in your life. Just do your best in things and go with it. You are doing wonderful with your new job.....it's not because of Cathy, your son, the doctor or anyone else....you've done that on your own....you aren't over medicated anymore, you didn't end up digging ditches and you have a wonderful house and a healthy son.....no person needs another person in their lives to validate who they are and their worth. The accident happened years ago.....move on about it...I know there are residual effects but thank God, you can walk, talk and think....and work and be successful in it. You're relationship with your wife is failing, that's sad but it happens all the time....as the world progresses, it seems relationships are harder.....but you've got to understand that some things in life you are to control and others you aren't. You need to find that happy medium....you have a teenage son so you will be less likely to find out how OUT OF CONTROL life can be....now I have a teenage daughter, you mixed hormones of a female with a strong willed teen.....control is the last word in your life!!

 

Just let her go, Bob. Leave her alone. Let her remember her last days with you in peace. She's done, most people that are cold about it are really serious. You can't control that and if you keep trying, you'll just go crazy. You put the last effort in by the letter. You given it all the effort you can. It's time to think about keeping some pride. The most important person in your life isn't you or Cathy, it your son. Put your hurt and efforts into making sure he has help BUT not trying to control him also. Take some anger management classes and get some counseling for control and co-dependent issues.

 

God bless and take care!

[Poconobob]

OUCH, that hurt...about the pool thing and the "attitude"....I'm going back to when WE were kids, I don't try to live in the past but for the unteenth time, I'm venting... What my particular thought is at the time is what I type, not something I dwell on. It is VERY bad to think a guy can go "whore" but a woman can't... However, there is a distinction in marriage, SHE and I married, I asked her to love, honor bla bla guess that doesn't mean anything? I admit certain things I did over the years weren't in good rationalization, IT IS THE FACT when you have the part of the brain become grey matter and it happens to control rationalization, also seratonin, you'd be kinda "off" but I never asked ONCE for anyone to pity me, all I asked for was respect and acknowledgement that YES, Bob has a deficiency with rationalization. Okay, with that said, now I must edify things on the long term..... First, I personally have enough savings to pay off all debts, I'm not saying I have like 20K in credit card debt, more like WE had cost overages on the home build, then WE finished off the house furnishings, and out of my end of the home build doing my own contracting, I was to get a Wide Screen tv.. Out of necessity, I had to buy a tractor, no it isn't an excuse, I was offered two options, spend 5K on a tractor OR hire someone to do all the landscaping, grading, etc.....which would have been 15K more debt or whatever....from savings. Therefore, I spent less, not saved overall...I got my tv after our 1996 Mitsubishi began to not be able to be shut off.....Note MY TV, she said you always wanted one, go for it....zero % interest for 2 yrs. BTW, it is paid 50% off..anyway, I then dismantled the tv using my computer building/electronics hobby given skills, found a bad board, got one from Mitsu and then sold the TV to a friend, subtract $400 from the $1200 which I spent on the new TV. Now, the old TV I paid only $800 for as it was a floor model, this one was a last year model on clearance and I got zero interest.....see, I'm thrifty. I also used the tractor and totally graded my property, dragged trees, plowed the driveway...

See, I don't expound on what I call being a spend-thrift ... WE both agree to split bills, it is the fact the mtg on this place is $1550 not including property tax, add that in and we're right at 2K mtg. My vehicle, is that considered a spend-thrift...? Let's see, she has an 02 Nissan Xterra SE V6 4wd with LITERALLY everything including a premium sound system I put in for her for last years mother's day from me, I had a 1992 Mazda Pickup truck with almost 100K on it, rusty in spots from the salt of two seasons but all over not bad, it was cumbersome to drive the 40 miles each way to the dr in Wilkes-Barre so I bought a new car. I'm thrifty, not a spend thrift...PLEZZZ don't think I did years and years and years of debt building....it is simply IF we split up, neither could handle the mtg by ourselves, neither of us because together we were fine, divided you take all your bills then you've gotta lower your lifestyle because you now have two households.....thus to save her anguish, to make me feel whole, I went back to work.

 

I've been made out to be an excuse maker...but in fact this is more like a diary than posting just to get replies. I'll give you an example of what I was told 30 seconds into the house this evening....My son said to me, Mom went to an appointment at 10:30 this a.m....and wouldn't tell me where she was going, when she would be back and afterward, sat on the phone with "grandma" for an hour crying and I felt sorry for her and asked what was wrong and she said GET AWAY FROM ME....go find something to do. Then after she got off the phone, she came up to his room and screamed at him saying that whatever she does is her business, not his....whatever she wants to do, she will and don't you ever dare ask me where I'm going.

 

Okay now I'm going to expound once more....and PLEASE don't think I'm pissed, I'm not. She has NOT cooked dinner in all my memory since June something, definitely not in July, not once. I just got done making spaghetti, yesterday I made chinese, day before steaks, day before he had taco bell.... All these aformentioned times she has gotten off at 5-6pm and I came home well after that and nothing was even defrosted and I had to go to the store for fresh veggies. So all I can say is I'm doing the best I can with what I have. I'm trying to rationalize my own life, keep my son on the right path, try to explain things about mom I don't understand myself, and all that is hard Vivian. It is easy to disect my posts about Cathy when in fact all I want for is friendship and for her to admit that I have a brain injury, I was on drugs so there is a remote possibility it contributed. On her side, she states that because I use the EXCUSE, not disability, EXCUSE I have been improperly medicated by I might add the doctor she told me to go to and trust, end of my excuses as I'm sounding like I am complaining. I'm not, I'm venting that all I'd ask is for her to once again look and see the MRI of my brain, stop saying I'm using an excuse....so I'm asking for empathy not sympathy. I never once ever asked for sympathy, not one time. I was numbed by a drug prescribed by a doctor who never should have prescribed it AND Vivian, it was recalled during the episode of hallucinations by the manufacturer. Don't believe me, read up on Duragesic Recall I had 75's....and they did leak, the dumb a$$ doctor didn't read the report, had me place a bioclusive cover over the patch which only intensified the effects because it could no longer leak and evaporate, all was absorbed. But to Cathy, it is an excuse....nothing but an excuse.

 

We BOTH were wrong, she was wrong not to tell me she was going to go with him, him being a man she admitted she was attracted to, and bluntly, it pissed me off. I never once have done anything remotely as bad...yes bad, flip the table around and I would have been divorced under the grounds of cheating, there is no doubt in my mind which way she'd go on a table turn scenario.

 

Be mindful, she has benefitted from the marriage far more than I have...

 

She has gotten a BS in nursing, I paid for that, I taught her how to be outspoken, she was shy, I bought her anything she wanted and she never after year 5 of marriage wanted for anything, she didn't have to work, she went back to college... and she was going to quit her job where she is today had it not been for me suggesting she write a letter to the corporation stating she wasn't about to work for a boss who was not a team leader....I helped write the letter. She got recognized, the other person let go, she was promoted....

I paid off a mortgage in Florida in 15 years, saved enough that literally she'll be able to retire just fine, as will I....I've invested her entire paychecks or most of them when in florida into a 401K and Keogh in her name so in the event something were to happen to me, she'd be okay. I became QUITE scared of dying after the car accident, I still suffer from panic attacks. And for me....well, I saved 1/3 of each check and invested wisely in the internet...used to buy and sell WWW names, and am not broke. It is this, I CAN'T at this point have not worked and stayed in this house...it would have dug into funds that have hefty penalties tax wise.

 

I sure wish I could get her to read all the posts.....perhaps then she'd understand huh... Oh and I'm certain she wouldn't slap me for the context of slut.....why? Because I'd told her what my friend or former friend had said....we laughed about it, as a matter of fact on our 15th anniversary, she said Bet George doesn't think we're still married, I otta call him and tell him the slut is still married...then said so when is your class reunion....and we laughed again. And we both were in heat for each other when we met.....

 

Maybe I should just stop posting and take this tired, headache ridden useless shell of a human and go for a walk......lol, just kiddin'...

 

I don't gripe by the way on here the turmoil and pain I endure every single day in working again, it is so so so so hard, you cannot imagine. My back hurts, head POUNDS, jaw pops.....and on a 1-10 pain is a certain 8 most days....imagine having to be happy in order to sell, imagine having to go back to work if not for any other reason so you didn't have to go live with your parents, that thought is DEFINITELY not happening. See, my wife if I didn't work would have had the home sold, I would have had not enough income to support myself w/o living off savings, so I would have had to move back to florida. And meanwhile, my wife would have had the identical circumstances except no ME....she wanted the space, not me but in essence, she would have the 12 yr old basset that is mine, 3 cats, bryan, and all the furnature, wow, I would have gotten the proceeeeedes IF we sold the house and IF I had been lucky enough to get profit. So ya, I kinda think about it all.....

 

There IS a silver lining.....I am gaining my career back, I'm gaining my self confidence back, I've LEARNED how to cope with pain and work, all of which wouldn't have been possible had she not pissed me off so badly to have me blow a gasket over another man. I furthermore wouldn't have stopped the meds.....I would have stayed depressed, I would have lived as a recluse living day to day by a watch which only dwelled on when my love of my life would be coming home and what I could do to make her comfy. I literally loved her to the point I would have given my own heart to her if she needed one to live, would have died for her.... I love her that much. I am right now crying so much because it hurts so bad to think I won't grow old with the love YES LOVE of my life. I won't ever find anyone else who I care more for.....I love her more than life itself. Call it co dependent, I called it companionship. If you have an email address, I'll send ya pics of this terrible relationship.....pics of where she carved "I love Bob" in the house foundation..... "Cathy loves Bob" with a heart in the driveway and and snow angels just done at Xmas....and Xmas pics of us hugging and both saying I love you as a pic was taken in front of the xmas tree exchanging gifts, THIS MESS has all come to a head and she became over it while I was hallucinating. Oh well, what is the use.....

 

bob

 

P.S. PLEASE PLEASE....I'm not mad, I'm not sad, I'm hurt....hurt the the point I don't know if I want to be....well, in existence all the time, NO I don't need my doc, I'm not on the wrong meds, this is my heart and sole talking, I know I have to be strong for my son....yep, he is #1....and guess what, he knows it, and he knows I would NEVER LEAVE HIM. He says he doesn't even know mom anymore....HOW COLD

 

Without bad times they say you don't appreciate the good....hmmmm I'm waiting

[Poconobob]

I noticed she has gotten her own checking account, that is a plus....but she is using my "account" for her purchases so I have to get that crap taken care of ....

 

We've decided to split the bills and pay half, each...to pay that and the unknown is how much she'll pay me for our son each month.

How much should she pay per month for our son? I was thinking like 700.00 per month, that would be enough to pay for his food, etc.

 

I know I've been warned already about taking all the money out of the account but I'm inclined to keep it and just remove her. She is using the "joint" account which she isn't putting money in for gas, cash, and groceries.....not a draining amount but still it adds up, plus her car pmt comes out too....

 

I made a mention yesterday about what my son said; she went out and came back home, called her mom and was crying, wonder what that was all about. My mom said perhaps she broke up with her "friend"....lol, mothers.....or said that it could be she didn't hear what she wanted after talking w/an atty....but I don't think it was an atty on a saturday??? More like a thing with her being confused, huh.

 

I'm kinda angry, her wedding ring is off...doesn't wear it anymore. That is like symbolic of not being available or available to me.....BUT I guess I won't say.

 

She said tod ay she was gonna move soon...can't find an apartment...and said how should she move out, what to take, etc....that isn't my problem, she also said moving is going to be expensive so she has to not use her checking account for a while? Should I allow her to use mine??? I know the answer--no, it is her decision to move BUT the compasionate side feels sorry for her and wants to help her out. I paid off one of her credit cards from last month's usage which was like 800 bucks....I know i should have made her pay it, oh well.

 

I'm such a dummy, I should be cold but I feel inside I'm doing the right thing since she is the one leaving and I'd hope if the tables were turned that she'd have allowed me to get some sort of cushion and build up her or my accont before moving. The account she said she paid into, that was part of her money in there BUT the fact is, she has onlyone check in the account this previous month, only like 1600 bucks in and her bills were car at 388, student loan at 318, and miscellaneous like gas, etc...for 300, and then the ccard pmt.

 

wtf.....should I do? As for savings, we are splitting it up right down the middle.....as for divorce, she wants to move, see how it goes, then decide. I wont let her back unless she is willing to go to counseling, IMO it isn't healthy unless we do that.

 

So what about HER access to the house once she moves? I think she should then give me the keys, garage door opener, etc...opinions??? If I left her to be able to come in and out, I work so she'd be able to come in and take stuff.

 

Oh, she said she probably will move after our son leaves on vacation; so moving while he is gone.... My mom said that is piss poor way to say good bye to her son. I guess she just thinks it is easier on her to leave this way.

 

I didn't give the letter, perhaps I should....

 

bob

[jmargel]

Bob,

 

Don't give her money. You think you might be being cold, but you can also look at it as you paying her way out as well, which could be considered cold. She has depression, that is very obvious. And it is obvious that she can't handle this problem alone. Why is she making car payments on a car you supposedly bought her for mother's day last year?

 

Did you write her the letter? If not, what are you waiting for? From reading your last post Bob, it sounds like you spent alot of money on her, but in all reality that doesn't mean anything. Paying for her education, paying for this or that.. That's not what she married you for. She married you so she could be loved & have a friend for life. You can pay for everything in the world, but to her she wanted what was in your heart. You had good intentions, but with a lack of communication these things happen. Even yourself you were buying things for 'momentary' happiness. You thought buying things for her would make her happy.. It won't.

 

That whole thing with the phone conversation, why assume things? She doesn't feel loved, that's why she's acting this way to you & your son. The last thing you want to do is to pay her rent or allow her to use your checking account. DON'T DO IT. Quit trying to buy her love. If she has someone else, she'll pay the consequences eventually. Those relationships don't work out. Just read the forum of the OW & OM. How many do you see working out? None.

 

Thing is, it's probably going to get harder still, until things get better. If she wants to find out what it takes to live on her own, then let her have the FULL experience. Which means fiancial as well. You have to put some tough love in there, otherwise she is going to still take you for granted. You are babying her while she treats you bad. So you are conditioning her to do this to you. Why should she treat you any different? She has you in the palm of her hand. Love & respect is a two way street, to get it, you should also be able to give it.

[Poconobob]

I won't baby her; let her save up money or anything, we'll split everything....I'll tell her tomorrow to give me the check card since she isn't contributing to it. It was trust that I was allowing her to keep it. I guess trust isn't the proper word but it fits the bill I guess....punn not intended. As for getting harder, I don't think so.....not at this point, I've accepted the fact she will move out. That to me is a biggie......it took a long time to come to grips with that....

I did a copy/paste of the letter I wrote so you know exactly what I told her.....I know she read it in solitude last night. We have not seen each other today as I worked the day, she is at work tonight.

 

As for bills, she'll have to give me half plus half of the utilities for this month IF she stays here. Kinda odd to charge rent but I guess it has to be so.

 

Do ya think she has a "friend"? I guess neither of us know that answer so I can answer that myself......but man if I find out the person...as I've put before, god help him, he'll get it but good for parting my ocean... I won't do anything to her except berate her for acting out against me and letting me think I'm crazed....

 

I had tough love before with my bro ther who is dead now, had we been tougher, well.....nobody knows the answer. he was addicted to coke...and other things.....his life folded as did his marriage and eventually he overdosed. I was the last to speak to him....which sucks. I'd bail him out one after the other.....but stopped and it was hard.

 

I'll let ya know tomorrow...

 

bob

[jmargel]

Give her a chance to respond to the letter before saying anything about the bills, etc.. That'll just push her. It might take a few days for her to respond to you regarding the letter you wrote. Let her digest the information and think about it first.

 

Sorry to hear about your brother, my brother had cancer two years ago, but miraclaciously made it through. You learn to appreciate the little things in life when things like that happen.

 

As for this other guy, if there is one. I wouldn't even bother, you'll only end up in jail and reaffirm everything he's told your wife about you. It takes two to tango, and if someone who only knows her a short time can convince her that her husband of 17 years is no good, then she is the one that needs a reality check. She has to take a step back and think if he is the proper one to give advice.

 

Anyway, let us know what she says about the letter. I wouldn't even ask her if she read it for a few days. Just go about your daily business. Let her come to you regarding it.

[Poconobob]

I didn't buy her a car for Mom's day, I bought her a complete audio system for her Xterra.....we bought the X in florida and it is in both names as is the Mazda 6S is in both names. She'll have to call USAA Fed savings and have the direct withdrawal taken for her vehicle. She still wants a new Honda Accord and wants me to help her get it and co sign as well I assume...

 

It kinda sucks that all our credit for the most part is in both names; makes things more difficult, the way she wants to work it, she'll give me a check for bills.

 

As one can imagine, neither of us will have it easy, especially me because I have always helped her....I know I shouldn't, as hard as it will be not to, I know I shouldn't.

 

Cathy may move to Wilkes-Barre....but also might rent down in the valley, minutes away.....if she takes the place down in the valley, it won't be available until October!!! Jeff, it hasn't been the easiest coming to grips with the fact she is leaving and I feel worst when she is home and things are "like the old times" where we watch a movie, cook together, or go out to dinner....It is only then that I feel bad, otherwise, when my son and I are alone, we have seemingly gotten used to her not being home. She has been working nights and from every Saturday to Tuesday she is a night shift; 2-11pm and evenings we're alone and have gotten down a routine....my son and i cook dinner, clean up, and watch tv...which I used to read in the evenings and no tv now I spend it with my son and watch HBO or something.

 

When I feel sorry for her is when I split the bills minus mine as in I have the entire mtg, my car pmt, gas, electric, cable, otherwise we split the rest and honestly after the split, her half is a lot....when I add her car, her half of insurance, her student loan, and her half, it takes more than a take home of 2 weeks pay so when she moves, if she say gets a place for $600, and adds utilities, she'll only have like $800 left for food, gasoline, entertainment.....IT IS THAT which I feel partially responsible. She is trying to save some so she can make deposits on utilities, phone, and the condo she is looking at.....whereas with me, after all bills, I'll have $3000.00 left. Note that I didn't even include in her bills an "alimony" for our son, I can't figure what is fair given that she pays for "our" health insurance and the fact she has just a little bit left after her bills BUT fair is fair, she needs to contibute something....but how much? $300?

 

Secondly, our son is gonna go to college so she needs to account for that too....what we "were" going to do was start setting as a fund, money for tuition.

 

As for here, after she moved I was going to put an ad in the paper for a roommate to help me with expenses; I want a female preferably....DEFINITELY not for other reasons, I prefer a female as they are neater ususally....and I was going to offer a spare bedroom for $600 a month with cable, heat, water, washer/dryer, electric, internet broadband and rent.

Trouble is, college will go in session before she moves out!!! That is a problem....

 

I don't need advice, I need an accountant, lol....any thoughts though?

 

bob

Or should I only rent to a male? I

[Poconobob]

Originally posted by jmargel

Give her a chance to respond to the letter before saying anything about the bills, etc.. That'll just push her. It might take a few days for her to respond to you regarding the letter you wrote. Let her digest the information and think about it first.

 

Sorry to hear about your brother, my brother had cancer two years ago, but miraclaciously made it through. You learn to appreciate the little things in life when things like that happen.

 

As for this other guy, if there is one. I wouldn't even bother, you'll only end up in jail and reaffirm everything he's told your wife about you. It takes two to tango, and if someone who only knows her a short time can convince her that her husband of 17 years is no good, then she is the one that needs a reality check. She has to take a step back and think if he is the proper one to give advice.

 

Anyway, let us know what she says about the letter. I wouldn't even ask her if she read it for a few days. Just go about your daily business. Let her come to you regarding it.

 

 

 

How will asking about bills push her? She brings up bills, not me....in fact I knew she had gotten her own account since seeing the lack of a check deposit. She wants to give me a check for bills, etc.....as I'm all hooked up on Quicken to pay bills fast. I setup a Quicken budget so we could pay off bills sooner than due and I had been sending triple payments to like Best Buy, etc....Cathy as I've said before can't except for the movie fight find any errors in my ways.

 

Ya, my bro might as well had terminal cancer as he was so miserable.....and genetics I found played a part in my trouble with my own meds....we I found have addictive personalities or some similar thing which my doc explained.....damn I wish my doc were close so I could visit him in person. Anyway, he explained how some genetics play a role in addiction. I now know I can't take prescription pain meds... And by the way, I suffer less from pain than I did while not working, my mind is occupied and it allows me to forget the pain of daily life.

 

She told me as for her wedding ring that it is too loose to wear and spins around on her finger, that is why she doesn't wear it, she has lost 35 pounds and is still losing.....now at 110 pounds. Man she looks good...

 

As for a man in her life, forgive me but respect that I find it obligatory to beat his a$$, I harbor the thought of revenge for making my life a living hell. Nobody can understand how bad I feel after being on morphine, THINKING I was hallucinating....then would find it was the result of a man! He would be due an old fashioned confrontation....If I go to jail, so be it, I accept that but he'll be taking a trip to the emergency room and for me, that is fine. Huh, make me think all along it was me when it was actually him coaching and coaxing her to leave her husband.....

This is set in stone, who cares if it only edifies my wife's point? She would be a liar at that point.....for sure!

And even though I sell cars, I'm not a liar, I know the stigma attached to car salesman but that is one of the things that makes me successful is I'm really a nice guy. It is the nice guy which she is trying at this point to take advantage of.

Sure it takes two to tango....that is my entire point, it takes two to cause this kind of grief, not one.... Just let me find out, he'll also get a visit from my relative's and won't know what hit him, my relative is with a certain branch of gov't which if you know computers and the term "white hat", "black hat".... you know what I mean. "They" have certain availability to data, satellites....etc.

 

I bought her stuff over the years, I used to come home from work with a dozen roses, PLEASE believe me when I said we had good times....I'm only remembering the bad because it is each and every angry moment that she had that is being thrown in my face. It is odd she only remembers the bad times??? Lives and thrives on the bad times....do you think she cannot remember the good times?

 

 

 

She didn't throw away the letter, that is a good sign she will read it over and over.....

 

bob

[jmargel]

Bob,

 

If I were you, I wouldn't be renting out a space at your house. Especially to a female, all that is going to do is send signs to your wife that aren't good. And beating this guy what is it going to prove? Just like when you told your wife you are going to beat her bosses ass. It's natural to feel that way, but to go through with it is another story. Women don't like hearing threats of that kind of nature, it actually shows YOUR weak side.

 

As for the bills, when she brings it up you need to come up with an agreeable amount. Don't co-sign for a new car for her. Don't worry about how much she has after her bills. She is the one wanting out and not wanting to goto counseling. I don't know how many times I can say this, but helping her fiancially is not going to get her back to you. If you think you'll try showing your caring side by doing this, that's not how she is going to precieve it.

 

Glad she didn't throw away the letter, just be patient and don't mention anything yet. You said everything you could in the letter, so there's not much you can do. As for her losing weight, it could be a sign of depression, which she probably has, although I am no doctor.

 

The only thing I would suggest to you is for you to tell her that anytime she needs someone to talk to, that you'll be there. Give her that option to open up to you.

[Poconobob]

Today is a brighter day, for the past 3 or 4 days since I gave her the letter she has been nicer. I don't know if it was the letter or that since Saturday when she came home crying that she is just finally seeing that it is HARD to leave. Why do I say brighter? Because yesterday she looked at a townhome, liked it....it is like 3 miles away from here so it isn't like she wants to "hide" a boyfriend; otherwise she'd probably have hidden her location up in Wilkes-Barre.......anyway, it won't be available until October so I've still got time to work on being a better person.. Our son said to her that he didn't want her to leave and she told me that he said that.....I could see the hurt in her eyes.

My son commented the same thing I said in the last small paragraph....that she seems totally nicer to me, no longer short nasty answers. No more of the crunched up face with everything I say.... Personally, I think she is having BIG TROUBLES do ing this. Even she said last evening that this is hard, she said that out of the blue......we were talking, and I mean truly talking without fighting, I was even being a cut up making jokes and I thought for a moment when she paused that she was going to grab hold of me and hug me and cry.....I'm telling you, it was close, you get to know a person after all these years, it was close. Instead, she just paused, kinda recoiled and said out of the blue that this is very hard......I said then don't, she said NOTHING, just stood there.....and I then said I love you, I understand how hard it is, but...I've also accepted the fact you are wanting to move.

 

Okay....I got the point on doing nothing to a Mr....Jeff, it is just me venting, I know I shouldn't say I'm going to do this or that, I should be "saying" I'm "thinking" this way. You are right, I'm stronger than that, not weak......plus it would only edify that I stooped to the lowest point almost even with what "they" did....and I should rise above infedelity and let them be in their own personal hell.

However.....I see her taking a townhome REALLY close, I never thought it would be that close....anyway, 3 miles away is close.

I'd had that passing thought of a female only because they are neater.....the LAST thing I want is a relationship, I was thinking some college kid .... female .... I just don't want some male kid in my house who could influence my son as he is 17 and if it were a freshman, then he'd be like 18, hence the reason I said female.

Since thinking about it and your bringing it up, I think nobody would be the best way to go......

 

As for bills, MAN this was HARD, HARD, HARD......I gave her a "bill" and she had to write a check, she and I went through them all. I feel partially responsible for this and want to help.....but I sucked it up. She said she'd have to live on peanut butter after she moves and showed me her wallet with like $15 bucks in it. Man, this is hard...you can't imagine how hard it is. And I swear not to give in...helping would only cushion what she is going through financially.

 

Her outter shell seems to be cracking; before the "idea" of being free seemed like a dream of being alone....of not being under my thumb(so to speak)....and the "happy" thought of that seems to be dwindling. I'm having trouble explaining it in text, it seems like since I gave her the letter as I said before, just something is diffferent.???

Just can't put my finger on it.... Or was it Saturday, she had to go to an "appointment" at 10 in the a.m.....my son said where, she said none of your business.... then came home an hour later crying. WTF is that? My mom said some really dumb thing....that she broke up with her boyfriend or saw a lawyer and didn't hear what she wanted.

After thinking it through, I can only surmise the following, NOBODY can guess what she had an appointment on a Saturday for so why guess. I THEREFORE since she called her mother when she came home crying that it has to be something hurtful where she wanted to talk to mom so it was something to not look deep into as I have in the past.

 

I've accepted she is leaving....which since I have, this sounds completely backwards but she seems to be the one doing the wishing or wanting not to do something???

 

I'd like to do something really friendly NOW, but what other than being a friend? I still have feelings for her, she obviously is having trouble since she said so. Should I suggest once more to call my doc and speak to him about her problems? He said he'd counsel her just as he has helped me....However, he said he is not going to tell her she is wrong for leaving, that things SHOULD be. So wouldn't I be better off with counseling up here?

Darn it, I wish Caroline was taking new people...... I'd start with my son and I, then she says she will go for "our son's sake" .... Slowly she is moving toward moving yet as time draws near, she seems like she is doubting more and more.

 

I will tell her that if she wants to talk ever, I'm here..

 

She isn't like a light switch lately, nuff said

 

well, gotta go....

 

bob

[jmargel]

I'm sure she is doing alot of thinking, and that Saturday meeting could have been to anywhere. She could've just went to the store, she could have went to a counselor, you don't know. Don't let it obess in you. The letter probably did mean alot to her. She was able to read without anticipating there would be another arguement. When she said this is hard, did you ask her what she meant about it?

 

Don't try to be her psychologist, just be her friend right now. Analyzing every move she makes is going to drive you nuts. She has you on this emotional roller coaster. Read back a few posts where you posted how upset she is, etc.. So, what I am getting at is too expect days like this and days where she can still be very aggitated. It sounds like you 'let' her talk to you, which is good. Not telling her what 'you' think, but what she feels. Communication is very important, I would say the next most important thing to love.

 

As for the fiancial issue, I would keep on the same route. Yea, it is going to hurt you some since you have provided her alot. Your instincts are to show her how much you care by providing for her. But if she wants to seperate she needs to face the reality. However she should not be staying with you for fiancial reasons. When she meant this is 'hard', did she just mean it fiancial wise, or emotionally? That is important. You only want to be with someone, who truly wants to be with you.

 

Your mom is going to say those things to you, because she wants to protect you. She has the notion that your wife cheated on you, etc.. She can't judge your wife without proof.

 

Your Doctor won't tell her not to leave. Any good counselor won't 'tell' anyone what to do. They can only give the pros and cons and listen to the person in trouble. From my sessions with Caroline, she would probably tell you, to let your wife come to you. To have good talks like that, and when your wife gets upset about something to tell her you 'understand' and to then back off, after you tell her 'If you feel like talking about it, i'm here'. What she would tell your wife would be to open up a little more. That once you say those things, she hopefully should say 'Ill talk about it later', but then make sure she does. To also not antcipiate that every time you two talk that there's going to be a conflict. And that you two need to talk about the issues at hand, however not to talk about the relationship every day. To enjoy each other and to try to make the relationship seem more like a bonding than work.

[Poconobob]

Jeff, once again thanks for the words of wisdom... Yesterday, she was preparing for another trip to Ohio to visit her mom and will be gone for a week; back Thursday.... Cathy also wrote me a check for 1/2 mtg, 1/2 bills, and I said I'd take care of utilities this month because she is carrying the health insurance. I figure that is only fair...

I noted yesterday she used the check card aka debit visa card for a gas purchase on "our" former account for like 30 bucks. She gave me the receipt; I said nothing... I can only assume she is on fumes and is going to Ohio and needed gas. I shouldn't push on little purchases, huh? Reason I didn't take the card was that though I've contributed all, I still want to make sure for at least this trip that she isn't going to go without any gas; I can see not allowing for cash but for the simple sake that she is my son's mom, I don't wanna be petty if she needs gas to go visit her mother. Make sense? I felt it wasn't worth an arguement or making her feel uncomfortable....she will feel guilty enough using it IF she does anymore. Again, I'm trying not to "enable" her to be comfy, just inside I feel there is a time to be petty, and a time not to be petty ..... I would worry more if I knew she was going on this trip and had no money and was going on the hope she had enough in her account to pay for gas. To me, my not having to worry about this is a good thing. Remember, I still have panic attacks of pretty good magnatude over stuff like trips, interstate driving, and someone leaving for a trip.....I have my son leaving Monday for Florida so it'll be me and my hound from Monday to Thursday....fun fun fun....I'm sure I'll have an hour each evening to clean up the distruction from my ole' hound dog, arggg.

 

"I'm sure she is doing alot of thinking, and that Saturday meeting could have been to anywhere. She could've just went to the store, she could have went to a counselor, you don't know. Don't let it obess in you. The letter probably did mean alot to her. She was able to read without anticipating there would be another arguement. When she said this is hard, did you ask her what she meant about it? "

 

I know she didn't go to the store....never thought it might be a counselor though I doubt that as it is like impossible to find a counselor around here no less on a Saturday a.m....

A "long" time ago, she was saying this is hard. This time, it took no question to ask what she meant; IT WAS LEAVING--separating that is so hard to do. That is why I said if you don't want to go, don't....or something to that effect.

In my opinion, the letter did impact more than I expected; however, she I know feels even if she doesn't want to turn the corner and move on that she feels she is beyond the point of return and she feels like "how can I go back to normal".....as if she is inside wanting now kinda different circumstances but she won't because she doesn't know how to for example bend over and gimme a kiss good bye.....or to stop the train before it derails....as if it must derail at this point and she is forcing herself to move because she has no other alternative other than to face the fact or so called fact that inside she'd feel I won and kept her here because that was my old motivation. Understand???

 

I've gone in life by a simple rule..... If in doubt, don't....I obviously don't use that when running my mouth, I use it for major decisions. I'm wondering how I could let her know it is okay if she wants to go but also okay if she wants to stay. It must be put in a way she saves face....again, she is VERY stubborn....call it tunnel vision or whatever, just I know she is now having second thoughts or perhaps third thoughts. Not leaving a comfort zone but leaving her family is now kicking in the instinct of "home". Actually getting a checking account started this....

And looking and finding finally a townhome only 3 miles away has hit home that NOW she can move on....that now she will be moving. Before, it was an emotion based on a desire to be alone, now a lot of mixed emotions and the "flushed" feeling you get when you realize that this is for real and not any longer a dream and now that the dream is coming to pass, it isn't the bowl of cherries it was "thought" to be.

 

Man this is hard to put to text.....but like I said long ago, after being together for years, it is easy to read each other. It is not hard to see when her feelings are mixed..... it was hard when I saw her with an emotion I knew was serious to move, to divorce, to separate and to see she was serious but MY EMOTION dictated MY FEELING to be compelled to not understand and to instead boldly run my mouth on my opinion which as you said causes conflict instead of listening and saying I UNDERSTAND. Seems that now that I don't behead her speaking of things like her feelings, I don't get her pissed off. I used to shut up when she talked and I did listen in our relationship long ago....it is slowly coming back. I mean the part about listening, I used to be an effective listener without taking things into a context I didn't wanna hear .....I had not worked so I stopped doing the listening. See in sales, effective listening is a key element to success and not running your mouth is another key......instead being VERY understanding how stressful it is to buy a car is effective listening, having them tell you this and that is effective listening. I always said you have two ears and one mouth for a reason!

 

I'm gonna write her another letter; she'll take it on vacation.

 

Dear Cathleen,

 

Hope you have a great trip, if there is anything I can do on my end let me know, feel free to call if you need anything, call me on my cell phone. Speaking of cell phone, if you don't have your phone, leave me a note so I can add call time to your current old cell phone.

 

Otherwise I just wanted you to know I'm here even if you would like to "talk" on the phone rather than in person about what you said the other night about it being hard. I'm here as a friend, I can't imagine how hard this all must be for you. I understand how frustrating things have been where you try to communicate and I didn't listen but rather interrupted with my opinion. Bluntly, I was interrupting your talking with my emotional side and my selfish desires. I'm past that now; I'll listen, I've accepted the facts, and I wanted you to know that whatever you do, I'll always be here as a friend to intently listen, to not interrupt.

 

If your saying it is hard is overwhelming, I'm up for anything whether it is talking to help you deal with it without my interrupting your thoughts. If you want to get something off your chest, that is fine....I'm okay with whatever you decide, I care so deeply for you that if you need to move, that is something I'll deal with because I don't want anymore hurt or damage to "our" friendship. I want to remain friends.....In that, remember my ole' saying; If in doubt, don't. So if now, if next week, if next month, if between now and the move time, if after you move, if ever you want to talk, if you want to give "US" and our family another shot, let your emotions free yourself of the angst of having to go back in history and go over and over a beaten subject. Neither can go into the past, there are things we need not even talk of... But instead all you have to EVER say is NOTHING, just walk over, hug me as a friend, come walk over to your side of the bed which will always be there, plunk down and you don't have to say a word. I just wanted you to know I won't make it hard either way to either separate, give it a shot EVER, even if you move and come over....you don't ever have to say a word, just come to me as a friend and we'll NEVER go back to the old ways.

 

My old ways, I'll expound on a few things.....I've had now 6 months to inspect what I am, who I am, and what truly a relationship is as I didn't have one. I allowed myself to over the years become co-dependent, to just sink deeper and deeper. I can't imagine how hard it was for you living that way.

I see that things in relationships based on my reading and counseling are filled with more communication, far, far less emotional attachment, more of the little things like couples do for each other, UNDERSTANDING when a spouse is feeling emotionally drained. Once again, it is easy to say I've changed though I'm not perfect, I still have things I'm forever trying to perfect but I can say this much. Perhaps it is too late to realize what "could have been", perhaps not. NO excuses....NO lies.....just empathy

Matter of fact every single time I think of history, I embarrass myself over what I've done and that isn't good.

 

Have a safe trip,

 

Bob

[jmargel]

Hi Bob,

 

Yea, I would let her use the card in OH. No reason to be petty about it. The letter sounds good, might send inside a 'thinking of you' or 'miss you' card.

 

You have told her it's upto her whether she wants to go or not and that you would understand. She does know. You don't want to write her too many letters, otherwise the effectivness of the first one gets undermine. The only way she can save herself from going through with this, is only if she wishes to fix things and which means going to a good, licensed marriage counselor. Not necessarily with a totally open mind, because that's what the counselor's job is. To make both parties realize their mistakes and how to fix them. People who goto a counselor are confused on how to solve their own issues. She's stubborn about it, but I think she is realizing that she can't solve everything. She has to let people help her who are able.

 

While she is out on this trip, don't call her to 'check up' on her. Don't come up with excuses to call her either. Prove what you have been saying to her and to us. Her giving you the money she was suppose to helps not only with fiances on your part, but it also starts to make it 'real' for her. Still remember there is a good chance she'll still move. But know if she does, that doesn't mean it's over between you two. You still have to start doing things to make yourself happy. Do something you've been wanting to do, do something for yourself this weekend. When you get that anxious feeling, tell yourself you are going through one of your old spells again but you are going to rise above it.

 

Hang in there and have a good weekend

[Poconobob]

Everyone has made points to me, some I didn't want to confront as Vivian can see by my angst towards being told how it is. But and I say this loosely but I've come a long, long way towards appreciating what I had in a woman. I look now at other women and think to myself how selfish I've been, how poorly I've degredated my own self image. So to all, I'm just happy to be a friend; ya, perhaps that will be all I ever have.

 

Jeff, believe me when I say I don't call her at all, and as a matter of fact the job only clarified I needed to regain a life. Especially with her working nights, believe it or not I've not "obsessed" at all, have not called her, have not stayed up to see what time she got home, NOTHING. This is a big accomplishment as I can tell she sees I'm not obsessing anymore, she said that. she said I was like checking up on her, it is like she had a 6th sense....scary, very scary. I'm embarrassed she knew so much of what I was obsessing on... It is hard to talk about, I was codependant bad..... Oh, my meds have not changed in 2 months! My doc said to go and have my blood done and somehow they can check levels of seratonin and I'm NORMAL for the first time in YEARS.....and I felt better, not fatigued too. The brain is a dangerous but neat thing...and FINALLY there is no trace of morphine, it took 3 months to withdraw, and I assume 5-6 months to completely remove it all. I was told it would be a long time before it was all out but that seems rediculous for the federal gov't to allow such a powerful drug to be given with such ease. I don't have any thoughts of relapse either....nor do I see things from a failure side where I see everything as destroyed. For a while I saw life as a destroyed village bombed out and only a shell of a life. I've regained the things I used to value, myself. I know I'll survive without her, I know based on the last session with my doc today that I wouldn't beat up someone as that is just plain dumb. He taught me something which is too long to post but taught me basically why I was pissed off at a phantom person whom I built up in my mind and any MR whoever it would be immediatly in my mind would be HIM.... Hope that makes sense?? It did to me and I eliminated it once and for all. He said my reaction cannot be of immediate response but rather a laid back one where I see it this way.....we're infinitely different people, she is deciding to go on with her own life and we'd then divorce and move on. If I try to cling to a person who has a man, I'm given in and only magnify what her reason for leaving was. Make sense?? Hope so.

 

Today was a very productive day with regard to my doctor Boutin appt.......we spoke more candidly than we usually do, he offered to finally say that I'm finally thinking correctly and NOW he is willing to help try to repair my relationship. Oddly enough he refused before.....His words were because it was my will to fix things, that meant I was not ready?? So since I've let go.....now he said I've turned the corner on my relationship. That the relationship now can have the slightest of chances IF I have not obsessed for too long. And said don't be pissed if she still wants time apart.....things have to heal on every aspect of anger before repair can begin. He proposed IF we should decide that we make a date to come down and he'll take a daily appointment and have us in individually and as a couple. He'll spend two weeks on us.. then counsel us more if we want.

 

Well, gotta go make dinner for my son and I.....

 

bob

[jmargel]

Hi Bob,

 

Things sound good. I hope she goes for the appointment with you. My take on divorce is that should be the final step if you both have resolved to the fact that you both have done everything possible to save the relationship. To leave the relationship without bad feelings, resentment or unanswered questions. If you can both be at peace with yourselves knowing you two weren't just meant to be, then yes divorce is the answer.

 

However, she has not tried anything to save this marriage. If she decides to still end it, then she will be the one wondering the 'What ifs'. You two argue and discuss 'topics', but you two haven't discussed any 'issues'. Issues meaning the drive BEHIND the topics. Once you resolve the issues, the topics will automatically disappear since they have nothing to stand on. Hope that makes sense.

 

Anyway, keep us updated, hoping the best..

[Poconobob]

She called this morning to talk to me.....called me on the cell phone so it was to talk to me only. Had basically nothing to say....then talked about running some marathon in Tampa in Feb.....I said Bryan and I were thinking of going down in the timeframe around Thanksgiving, I invited her and she said NO. That she wouldn't want to go since she is getting her own place and all and that it just wouldn't be right to spend holidays together. See, she seems sooooo confused, she had been looking at old photos of us all when we were younger earlier and so she called me?? Weird... But nonetheless, she still plans on moving out evidently. So be it... That is hard to say, trust me. I might act all okay with it but inside I'm not.....Inside like you said I have issues...but also believe me when I say I can look beyond. It looks like it is over between us and I can't do or say anything. It is very hard to handle just knowing I'm not going to be around her. Even the frustration sexually is getting to me now whereas before it wasn't. I have dreams about her; you know.... I miss her intensely. However so much missing her and moving on with my life must take place. I assume her moving out will relieve some of the daily "thinking" of what could be. I wonder what the chances are of staying together.....no strike that, of getting back together after she moves out? You cannot imagine how much I want to ask her to just sleep with me and see if she feels anything....what do the experts think or say about that? What do you think? I know based on the situation she'll just do like she did about asking if she wanted to go thanksgiving on vacation with us......NO

Secondly, how can a Mom be like that to her son? I thought TIME heals wounds? Evidently not....and also I'm still wondering what she came home crying about after going on an appointment on a saturday. And also how she can be so unhappy and how moving will make her happy... So with the sexual frustration, it is possible it isn't just for her, it is going without. Is that normal to begin to "want"....you know. ?

My doctor and I won't talk for a while......and by the way, I know she now isn't into going to "therapy". My life seems in a rutt.....a deep one; I've done so much I guess it is this point...I'VE done so much, she has not and until she does, there is no hope. My rutt is the lack of compassion in my life, there is a void there which believe me I've tried to forget; I've tried to stop; I've tried to think throught but I just keep wanting my wife.

Poor me syndrome, nope, this is an inner feeling which I'm just beginning to deal with which is sex. Not sex in the literal sense but as in hugging, laying together with the warmth of someone who cares for you. I had dealt with it by just simply not thinking about it and by thinking of other things to eliminate the urges men have.

 

As it stands, she'll be moving out in October..... Our anniversary will be Oct 3rd..... Some anniversary huh.

 

That is all for now; wish Caroline was taking patients......my wife said she'd go to counseling for Bryan but not for me, perhaps with time that would change. I look at it as I have 7 weeks left to be myself, change MORE, evidently there still is something I have not changed!!! I know, it is the past, I can't change the past!

 

bob

[jmargel]

Bob,

 

You have nothing else to change about yourself. It is her. Perhaps she gets some sort of satisfaction having this 'power' over you. Why is she waiting until October? It just seems like she wants to prolong the pain. If she wants out so bad, why not find a small apartment until she gets her fiances in order to get something bigger?

 

She is basically playing head games with you, whether or not she realizes it. You need to do stuff for yourself. Not to neglect your son, but to go out on your own. To meet new friends, both male & female. Like I said in my previous post she hasn't done everything she could to save the marriage. So the responsibility will be with her if she decides to still end it. No matter how much you do around the house, no matter how much $$ you give her, no matter how much pleading you do, it's upto her to act like a grown adult and make the next move.

 

Perhaps she is confused but that is what counseling is all about. Yet her stubborness prevents her from going to it. Until that happens, nothing much will change. It's hard to get through the issues when she doesn't even want to talk about them.

 

The only thing I can suggest is to start making yourself happy in life without her. Right now she may be living in the house but she isn't your wife emotionally. So, truly.. what difference will it make if she moves out? As for the sex thing, personally to me once she moves out & seperates you are fair game on the market. For her to move away, leaving you hanging and still try to make you feel guilty by saying she isn't going to date anyone is not right. She is making the rules in all of this and you are being strung along like a puppet. You need to cut those strings.

[Poconobob]

Hi Jeff,

 

I know I've done what I am able to do yet during this month after month torture have given into frustration and played head games back as you know.

I've let go of the head games on my end as all it is IMO is stooping to her level. Everytime I fight back, somehow it bites me in the butt.

 

As for her moving, the place she found 3 miles away isn't available until October...I thought the same thing, prolonging it all. And I have not given her any leverage money wise, the only thing I have not done is taken her bank card which is a mutual account. I guess I need to take that since I'm keeping the primary account. She gave me a check a week or so ago; I didn't deposit it cuz I'm lazy or too busy not because I give her leeway...

 

As for dating, etc, she has her ring off still with the excuse it is too large.......bla bla bla.....just another excuse.

I wore mine up until this week ... I had taken it off before but had it on once more as it felt uncomfortable.

 

For now, and forseeable future, I think I'm going to keep shut from dating or making friends or being fair game as I need my son to know I'm there for him and not looking to replace mom. HE is having difficulty as he keeps saying in a whine that he doesn't want mom to leave and tells her so often. She has no idea the amount of confusion she has placed in her flesh and blood. Does she care, ya.....enough to do something, no...no not at all otherwise she wouldn't be so nasty.

 

She is over in Cincinnati again.....runs to mom for support as she tells her it is okay to do this. This from a mom in law which I bent over backwards to help over the years, supported her after her husband died by doing ALL her errands, money, etc....but I understand a mom's backing too of her daughter.

 

Bryan leaves today for Florida.....he is anxious to go visit grandma on my side. I'm gonna be alone in the house for a few days....thankfully I have work to keep me busy.

 

 

 

By the way, I too get the Microsoft updates ahead of public launch, I about BASHED my pc after the install, stupid M$ windows xp SP2....they gave it out to check for compatibility, huh.....well, I can say it conflicts with anti virus and is a pain in the a$$. Did you try it yet? I put it on our little server and MAN....I'll leave it at that.

LOL, check the "run once"....omg there must have been 30

 

bob

[VivianLee]

Hey Bob,

I haven't been ignoring you, my daughter was around for the past two weeks so I couldn't post on here (I don't want her to see this site, since I talk about things I don't want her to know about) anyway, she's in school so I can post away!!

 

I'm sorry things haven't improved for you. I really hoped and prayed things would work out. It's aggravating when you have no earthly idea what is going on in the head of someone you are supposed to be closer to than anyone else.

 

I'd like to address your last two posts.

 

 

Even the frustration sexually is getting to me now whereas before it wasn't. I have dreams about her; you know.... I miss her intensely. However so much missing her and moving on with my life must take place. I assume her moving out will relieve some of the daily "thinking" of what could be. I wonder what the chances are of staying together.....no strike that, of getting back together after she moves out? You cannot imagine how much I want to ask her to just sleep with me and see if she feels anything....what do the experts think or say about that? What do you think? I know based on the situation she'll just do like she did about asking if she wanted to go thanksgiving on vacation with us......NO

So with the sexual frustration, it is possible it isn't just for her, it is going without. Is that normal to begin to "want"....you know. ?

 

Goodness Bob! Of course you need sex!! You are just a little older than I, still young and virile....YEAH....you better believe as a normal, red blooded American, you are missing it. Yes, you are missing your wife, not just for the actual sex act but for the intimacy, which shows you aren't shallow and use her, you love her along with the act. But you are missing the "act" itself. That's totally understandable! So it the need for human touch.

 

Sleeping with her could make matters worse. Because if she did and still moves on, you are going to be crushed even deeper, a good session of love making won't heal this.

 

I understand your missing that intimacy and I'm so sorry that is another thing you have to deal with.

 

 

As for the last post. I wish she could go ahead and leave so you could get on with your hurt, grief and process of moving on. Could she live somewhere, anywhere else till this became available? I guess she'd have to sign a lease where-ever she lived....I don't see how you can stand 7 more weeks of this. It's not healthy for you. Don't spend it trying to become someone you think she'll love. Be the person you think you should be and change what you think needs changing for your sake and those around you BUT don't do it to win her. She could be through with the marriage, I'm so sorry, I know that hurts and it's hard to take but if she is, there's nothing you can do, you've fought so hard and the ball has been in her court and she's done nothing to make it work. She probably cries for what was or what might have been but it's not enough for her now.

 

Don't stop therapy or medicine. Do find friends. Laughter is such a wonderful way to cope. It's also said we live longer if we have friends in our lives.....plus you have friends here on the forum too....you aren't going through this alone, there are people here that care and are praying!

 

I hope today is a better day for you! Take care!

[Poconobob]

Well, the saga continues....she came home, "announced" she isn't moving out because she'll have to sign a lease.....has moved her uniforms for work into the spare bedroom, said she is going to stay now until Bryan graduates school then she'll go to college once more for her master's degree, QUIT her job where she is now and perhaps move to Tallahassee or something or somewhere she can go to college.

 

WTF........I was like floored.... So we've gone from she is moving out definitely to NOT moving....from "loving" her job and working all the hours, being best friends with her boss to him all of a sudden being an as s hole to wanting to stay... like a stupid novel this thing is.

 

ALL this back and forth crap has been since one morning when she went to an appointment and then came home all crying....."could it be?" Did she? i.e., I don't think about all that....I can't, it is stupid to assume.

 

She just called me moments ago while typing this; she started crying saying this is sooooo hard but things over the past have caused all this and it isn't easy, she'll move out, prepare for it in the end after she prepares herself for the end with divorce, and her little U HAUL....next spring/summer but she has realized she is "over it" up here, sick of Pennsylvania and moving "south".....i.e., Florida, Alabama, she doesn't know......but she'll use school to immurse herself into "it". So I shouldn't think poorly of her......

 

ARGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG

 

I'm confused, I told her how I felt and understood the hurt she has and I felt for her and agreed how tough it must be for her, how tough it is....and how hard it must be.... I listened intently and what I heard is this....I see her as being very hurt, confused, and somewhat bewildered as to which life path she wants to take but at this point she feels the need to get out of Pa....and to move on.

 

I'm going to once again write a letter as the first two obviously impacted letters posted within my text have somehow swayed her to stop moving??? Convenience of staying? Don't know.....

 

HELP, HELP, HELP...... I don't want to fight, I don't want to cry, I don't want to hurt worse...

 

I empathized with her; I told her I missed sleeping with her and I said not in the sense of making love....but of being with her.

 

I told her that as hard as it is for her to come to the decision because of her ill will towards me just think how badly I feel about doing the things she said I have over the course of history. I feel inside like I'm such a bad person for taking some things for granted such as the bond of marriage....not the ring but the BOND of understanding one another, of understanding and not being an ass...

 

I'm so sick of Pa also.......BUT, first and foremost, I WANT can't be in my vocabulary as my needs at this point is still to stay on the same track I am now, adjusting to life as a guy in mourning, of living life for each day that comes and to brush off things that irritate me. I don't see myself as the bad person I'm portrayed to be but then again, I was under extreme duress being 100% on commission and putting my wife through school and now here I am once again doing the lower basics, i.e., not being a manager, just being a peon.

 

My doc got an emergency call from me......

 

I spoke with him about the first part about her leaving.....what has happened he said and I don't know how much emphasis I can place on his personal opinion but he said...

 

She sees the OLE' bob....she sees the cocky, high strung individual, she sees the change finally and I should BACK OFF more than ever about her makning life decisions, just shut up, shut up, shut up and don't back her into any corners.

 

IS THAT SOUND ADVICE?

 

OR should I put an end to this madness for my own good and kick her out? Kick her out as in put a stop to the bull that she continues to spew.......bla bla bla it is hard to do this, it is hard to say this.....

THAT I'm afraid is the old bob which is deep inside an a hole....

 

Sorry guys, I can't kick her out, I told her I loved her so much that if leaving is her best thing to do, then do so.....that I understood.

 

I've finally gotten it have I not? I listened and shut up.

 

So should I or shouldn't I write a letter??

 

bob

 

Shoot......I could write a novel if I just put all my posts together...... the life and times of a former co dependent

[jmargel]

Bob,

 

Your doctor is right, think of this as a 'transitition' from wanting to move out in a few weeks, to staying & working things out with you. She's stubborn, so of course she's not going to say 'I overreacted, so I'm sorry and I'm staying with you'.

 

You also have to determine on what point you want to stop playing these head games. I hope she still is giving you money for fiances. To me, as long as she is living under the same roof, and you two are still married you deserve to know what is going on between you two.

 

She still needs counseling, and until she gets over her stuborness, nothing much will change. Continue working on yourself, and try not to think too much about the situation. Do things that make you happy, and it will all fall into place.

[VivianLee]

Goodness!! I didn't see that one coming either!!

 

Bless your heart! I can't imagine what is running through your head now.....

 

jmargel and "the doc" have the best advice...this could be a "save face" situation. Hopefully, she doesn't EVER want to leave and wants to work it out. However, I think it's a little unrealistic to keep this arrangement with her for a long period of time. I don't know if it will be healthy for you. In other words, if she doesn't look to changing and wanting to work things out (as in move back into your bed and marriage) then I don't know if you could stand another year of this ( thinking it is working out just because she's under the same roof with you) and then have U-Haul come next summer and take her out of your life.

 

I think you should set some limitations to the arrangement. At first I wouldn't tell her this (that you are setting limitations or timeframes) so she won't feel backed into the corner or feel like she's been given an ultimatum BUT after a period of time (set it to what you can stand), if she hasn't made any efforts to reconcile or let you know that she isn't leaving but staying, I would consider telling her that you are tired of the p****footing around and it's time to decide something-stay or go.

 

I'm happy for you if this is her way of coming back to you, I know this is what you dream of BUT if she is taking advantage of your love and need for her, then she is very wrong. Nothing you've done in the past deserves this treatment. She's told you what made her unhappy, you've apologized and want to do better, so you've done your part, you don't deserve to be punished or to be unhappy.

 

Just calmly think about all venues of where this is going, think about what you can deal with and how long you want to deal with it. Then set goals and limits! You can be a loving, caring and understanding husband without being a doormat!

 

Hang in there! Just think long and hard before you say or do anything....