jmargel Posted September 16, 2004 Share Posted September 16, 2004 How are things going bob? It's been awhile. Link to post Share on other sites
VivianLee Posted September 18, 2004 Share Posted September 18, 2004 Hey Bob! How are you doing?? I've been away for a few days myself (Hurricane Ivan decided to hit Alabama!).....I know you have friends (family?) and your doctor is in FL....I hope they are all well and that you are doing well also, let us hear from you if you want! Viv Link to post Share on other sites
Author Poconobob Posted September 21, 2004 Author Share Posted September 21, 2004 I've been doing fine, actually slammed at work with believe it or not TONS of referrals from previous customers already. I'm "almost" there as far as management goes, I was interviewed over the course of the past week several times for a position in which I was offered but have not accepted due to some stipulations I wanted....after all, this is the car business and don't think that for a second they don't try to work a deal "their" way with employees too, they'll try to get u as cheap as possible but this isn't my first time negotiating, lol. As for the home front, well, I'm stagnant, Cathy still is in pursuit of her new life......I'm still just dealing with everything privately. As to meds, my doc took me OFF Zyprexa which caused all the weight gain and it is coming off fast...and I'm far, far more bubbly at work/home as I'm not sedated. I needed it to deal with paranoia/good thought but now, I'm numb to it and I take each date as just one more day towards being free of the stress. I NEVER did go out or anything with the people I mentioned before....however, I do go out... It has been kinda neat to see I'm not an old man, nor a dude with a mid life crisis. I have a new doctor up here!!!! Yippeeeee, I found a doctor local who is normal, not for psychological counseling but for meds.... Just thought I'd share that, anyway, he wants me to be psychologically counseled by his staff but MY DOC in florida cautions me because come the time I move on, I'll probably move to Florida once more..... I have been hanging around with friends, going to dinner, going out, etc.....casually. I see myself not spending time at home as much, definitely not feeling sorry for myself, dealing with everything. A couple good things happened to my wife......well good for me, her boss, the one in question is GONE....moved to Texas I'll post more later on I have to read back on posts, SORRY for not being prompt.... bob Link to post Share on other sites
sadness Posted September 22, 2004 Share Posted September 22, 2004 Wow!!! What a painful situation.... Bob, I'm sure it's too late now - but you should have simply hired a PI to run a check on the undergarments, as well as track her vehicle. The trust was gone for you, perhaps affirmation one way or another woudl have let you move past it? I hope things work out between you Link to post Share on other sites
Author Poconobob Posted September 27, 2004 Author Share Posted September 27, 2004 Over the past few days I wanted to be 200% sure there would be nothing in "our" future....I can factually state there is not, she will move on.... And other than in body, her mind has already divorced me. I can't seem to lose the sadness except for a dark secret I'm about to say... I've been going out with friends, my builder and I became friends after he did our home...anyway, we bumped into two ladies he knew. I instantly hit on common ground with the one, she is a divorced--abused--mistreated lady with her own set of issues. Anyway, we have spent countless hours talking and talking about our lives and how they parrallel each other to a scary degree. The sad part is, she has a liver problem and is terminally ill but only God knows when, certainly not soon but eventually. I know she is a person with a disability, has even had a bout with death/brain injury but my god is she literally the most beautiful person inside that I've ever met. Though I always intended for us to be just friends, we did go out on a "date", nothing happened, she isn't like that. I have told her about my wife, about how I'd like to work things out, etc....and she told me what everyone has pretty much said, see if I can save the marriage. Well, I can't.... I went to my wife point blank and asked...and without begging, and with the instructions recommended to see what I can make of my personal life as I knew/know it, there is positively no way she will stay. I'm moving towards listing the home, and taking out the bills, sorting, discussing it all, and mutually, calmly moving on. Now back to Sandy, she has been an inspiration of sorts, it seems like we've known each other for years. I'm not looking to fall for someone as I know it is dangerous territory to allow someone to enter the heart which is broken, trouble is, it just has kinda sorta happened. I don't know what to do as my distorted life for so long seems to now have purpose which is to kinda help this person. By the way, to look at her, she is 4'11" and without a doubt the prettiest 35 year old I've ever, and I do mean ever seen. That isn't the hard part as I've gone out with beautiful people, just they were so plastic laiden inside whereas this one has had the insides ripped apart, been beaten, been abused, it is sooooo sad. I just don't understand how this has befallen me this way. I just don't know... I'm being blunt as I always have been.. I DON'T need companionship in the sense I want to replace my wife, I just instantly as she has fallen into a friendship. When I say she has baggage, I mean she has an old man who still hunts her down, she is moving with her friend to another place. We've talked for evenings which went from early evening to almost 6am and fallen asleep together on the couch just intertwined.....no petting, no sex....well, accidently the first week but we stopped and agreed it wasn't a good idea at all. Since then, just pals.... She knows EVERYTHING right down to my situation now and she keeps telling me that she isn't going to open her heart for just anyone...but we agree there is a physical attraction, mental attraction.....and I don't offer myself for "services" and neither does she. She says how can anyone dump a sweet person like me.....and yes, I told it all, all my baggage. She shares in the same issues... I mean the conversations a-z are so parallel it is scary. WHY me, WHY ..... Today for example my wife and I went to the fair, she was walking and I touched her shoulder to pat her on the back in a friendly non sexual way and she friggen blasted me saying don't touch me, then went right back to her conversation.....then later on, I "accidently" brushed her shoulder in the crowds and she again pulled away and said I don't understand, leave me alone. It is like torture....hellish torture to stand next to the wife and know she is over it. Oh by the way, she is STILL blaming me for everything as in my accusation of her cheating for her wanting a divorce. The lady friend, Sandy said just try, try to be friendly, try to make it work. Well, I have and I can't so what now? I'm not confused, I'm just saying I love the conversation I have and the company ain't too bad either. When we go out, it isn't to romantic places, it is to places to just talk.....we went dancing once but mostly we just hang out and help each other. I can in my heart know when I have feelings, everybody does but WHY with someone terminal, why not some 23 year old healthy.....lol....kidding. Seriously, I can't help but wanna help... I WISH my wife and I were divorced...OR better yet back together but that obviously isn't happening. The girl said that it seems VERY odd that my wife wants to stay until July because when someone wants out, they want out.... All this is on the up and up by the way, I don't hide the fact I have a friend, where I'm going, in fact it is strange. I'm careful though knowing how I can be placed into a trick bag on a divorce having a female friend.....however, Pa is a no fault state but needless to say, I ain't divorcing to remarry. Nor do I look for anything nor inspect my relationship... 99% I'm sure you'll say I'm a bastard, how can you have a friend.....It isn't about physical, heck if she were a dude, the bond would be best friend...but unfortunately I'm having fun watching tv and kicking back and talking. I'll tell ya how deep the conversations have gone.....she has confided in me things like how she was beaten with the first husband....the second how she learned to love him after he changed after marriage of 15 years and cheated on her and let her think she was crazy....sounded sooooooo familiar, the parallel of it is so much the same. To so intimate a conversation that she confided she was raped, that she has never had an orgasm, and never has been given oral sex.....and how do I react? It comes easy, I SEE and understand and I pat her on the back and listen as she does for me. My Doc....he said I'm okay so long as I understand that living a separate life from my life in the open has opened it up for her to do the same and I should not cast stones when it does.... Well, I'll step out of the confessional.... Work is great, my relationship with my son is great, I spend more time with him than I did before at "her" recommendation. bob Link to post Share on other sites
jmargel Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 Bob, So does Cathy know about this female friend? If she does, and even if she is ok with it (so she says) of course your wife is not going to want anything to do with you. In any event, I can still see you are confused about what you want with your wife. I believe most of all you want some sort of ending to this, either getting things to work again or to divorce. There's nothing wrong with having a female friend, but you have to be careful not to cross the line. Sounds like your wife has depression as I said a few pages back. People with depression will unfortunetly go after the people who are closest in their life. That's happened to me, twice. It's hard not to take it personally, since some of the things they say are very hurtful, but I learned that I was not the cause of their depression. I truly hope your wife talks to a doctor about all of this. Not talking and doing something constructive about it, can be dangerous. For this woman, she sounds like she has a sincere heart. Continue being honest with her about everything. Enjoy her company, but remember not to cross boundaries, otherwise you would be doing worse to your wife than she has ever done to you (even if she has cheated, which you have no proof of). I still believe your wife needs you, she just can't get over the hurt for some reason. That's not to put her down, it's just some people have a hard time letting go of things. Look for signs with her for depression. Link to post Share on other sites
VivianLee Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 Hey Bob! It's so good to hear from you and to hear that you are doing pretty well. I respect jmargel's advice so much and I almost didn't post because (sigh) I disagree with him a little bit. Yes, your wife may be depressed but I believe that now, it's not your problem anymore. No matter how depressed a person is (I have dealt with depression for 14 years and just in the past 3 have been able to overcome it with medicine and therapy) they can control their behavior. If she doesn't want you to touch her and acts so hateful about when you do and she still wants to leave and end the marriage, she may be depressed but she also wants the marriage to be over. There's nothing you can do about that. Yes, you weren't perfect towards her but she hasn't been perfect either. You have changed, showed her you have and she just isn't willing to let things go. That is NOT your problem. You've pulled out all stops (according to your posts), you've apologized many times, you said you would change, you tried to get her to go to counseling and maybe perhaps you've been a big rear in the past BUT the ball was in her court to forgive you and move on, she decided not to.....so there comes a time when a person just has to "wash their hands" of the situation. She needs to get her butt out of your house. Y'all need to reside in separate homes and go for a legal separation. The new lady and the friendship sounds lovely and something that you've needed and longed for (preferably with your wife, I know) many months. I'm so sorry about her condition with her liver, is there no way for her to get better??? However, please be careful, you are very vulnerable right now, be on your guard but still enjoy yourself. You have to have the self-control of a saint to have kept this from being physically. Hang in there till you are legally separated or divorced. The marriage "seems" completely over. I'm sorry. You do have a wonderful son and good memories as a result. This friendship is helping you deal and feel alive again. I hope things continue to go well and that you can get the things you want out of life!! Take care! Link to post Share on other sites
Author Poconobob Posted September 27, 2004 Author Share Posted September 27, 2004 Today yields yet another "nasty" call from Cathy, she called to tell me about her new endeavor with planning school then kind of got nasty about the house and "when am I going to get the house ready to sell".... and on and on then switched to me and what a piece of garbage I am and that I have seedie friends.....the seedie friend thing I assume comes from her thinking she is better than me. By the way, the friends are successful MARRIED, HAPPY professionals like exec chef and another is a home builder, certainly not "her" doctor friends but then again, I'm not plastic man. See, I find myself talking crap and I'm not like that. I've TRIED and tried different ways to deal with my wife, I've tried everything but being an outright jerk....why? because I am not going to get a "see I told ya you are a jerk" response, besides, what darn good does it do to get into a pee contest. As for Sandy, my female friend, she is sick today... I ran her over some soup I got at the kosher deli and you'd have thought I bought her a diamond. I just cannot get over what it is like to be able to just sit and talk and talk and about everything and anything. I am being so, so, so careful so as to not allow myself to falsely fall in love....Noooooo not me, lol.. Actually Sandy has taught me that I'm not a piece of garbage and that my conversations are articulate, and I can make her laugh until she about pees herself. The mere fact is this, WE both a week ago agreed there is a strong attraction, we also DID shower together and begin to go all the way when we both looked at each other and said NO, slow down and have not engaged in anything of the sort. This is once again hard for me to explain as typing is hard to make it come out right. Let me just say, the shower began as a joke, we were to go out and the more I kindly asked if she were ready, the slower she would go on purpose. Anyway, she said the only way to go any faster is if I washed her back and that isn't going to happen....and I said okey dokey... but then and I cannot go on and on but my butt ended up in the shower, and I swear, swear, swear it was literally a shower, especially when the hot water ran out. Anyway, long story short, we dried off and then started...but again, we stopped. She can change in front of me (which she doesn't) and nothing would happen. She has changed into pj after midnight wearing undies while changing and I didn't do a thing and she talked normal. Saturday night, we went out, me, Sandy, and her roommate Tina... I was da man...lol. Anyway, we got home, her roommate went to bed and Sandy was afraid of someone coming over and asked me to stay the night .... I did, I watched tv on her couch, eventually fell asleep holding one another. I HAVE NEVER EVER EVER EVER had the opportunity to do that with my wife, sad but true. But then again, we married quite young. I just cannot seem to get over how beautiful this girl is and that we get along so well and that SHE reminds me that I'm needing to not allow myself to fall or fail. So for now I have a great friend and nothing more, I promise. Speaking of separation/divorce, Pa has no separation for legal separation, divorce has a 90 day cooling off period....and it is a no fault state. I hate the thought of selling my home, moving, then starting over but I can't ever get past the starting gate if I don't move her out or sell the house. BY THE WAY, I asked two weeks ago if she'd go to counseling again and just the other day, she scoulded me for asking. No wonder I stayed at Sandy's house until 830 a.m....... and what do you think my wife said? NOTHING, it didn't bother her in the least...now she wouldn't even let me know if it did but I did say where I was and what I was doing and why I didn't come home until the a.m. and the reply was NOTHING except "so are we going to the fair or not"... Argggggggg bob Link to post Share on other sites
pedwin Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 Bob, Hi there, I totally agree with Vivian!!!! But I would like to add that your wife wants her cake and eat it to. She wants to leave but she wants you to sit home and piss and moan. Now that you have met someone, she is jealous!!! She doesn't want you to have a life. She feels important when you are upset and when she knows you want her back. Now that you have found someone else little miss know it all doesn't know how to handle it. KICK HER ASS OUT OF YOUR HOUSE!!!!!! I TOLD YOU THAT FROM THE VERY BEGINNING Best of Luck!! Pedwin Link to post Share on other sites
jmargel Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 Bob's wife's depression isn't his problem, but I'm trying to point out that people with depression do act irrationally. Bob, with this woman.. You are taking it WAY too far. Showering, kissing? Jeez man. If Cathy were doing this, you would totally flip out. You were accusing her of doing this without even proof! Now you are? You are becoming the MM to Sandy. Check out the MM/OW forum. This is how it starts. You two are way over the friendship line, doesn't matter if you had sex or not. Platonic means nothing sexual. You realize you cheated on Cathy now, right? I'm just envisioning this to become much more complicated now. Both you & Cathy need to decide what you want and then act on it. Otherwise things will get very messy. Does Cathy know about Sandy? Link to post Share on other sites
VivianLee Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 Originally posted by jmargel Bob's wife's depression isn't his problem, but I'm trying to point out that people with depression do act irrationally. Bob, with this woman.. You are taking it WAY too far. Showering, kissing? Jeez man. If Cathy were doing this, you would totally flip out. You were accusing her of doing this without even proof! Now you are? You are becoming the MM to Sandy. Check out the MM/OW forum. This is how it starts. You two are way over the friendship line, doesn't matter if you had sex or not. Platonic means nothing sexual. You realize you cheated on Cathy now, right? I'm just envisioning this to become much more complicated now. Both you & Cathy need to decide what you want and then act on it. Otherwise things will get very messy. Does Cathy know about Sandy? True people with depression do act irrational..... About 4 threads back, I would have been livid about Bob's actions with Sandy....and I don't think in my own personal opinion that it's a good thing to do BUT I can understand where he is coming from as in just needing to be needed and to feel attractive..... Bob, if you and your wife seemed to have a chance, I would throw up this situation with Sandy and say the same as jmargel, you'd have a fit if Cathy had done this or was doing this....however, if the marriage is over, then for this sweet girl Sandy's sake, get Cathy out, start divorce proceedings and move out of that house, then let yourself fall, madly, madly in love!!! You could be going from one situation to another if you aren't careful.... Link to post Share on other sites
Author Poconobob Posted September 28, 2004 Author Share Posted September 28, 2004 Okay, so literally and I do mean literally, I went a bit too far but have completely stopped, I'll admit that but you know what? I don't feel guilty, I don't feel as though I'm getting back at Cathy, I feel as though I'm worth something again, self worth not because of sexual relations, self worth because someone is telling me they have been in an abusive relationship and would rather I work things out at home but if not, then and only then would we go farther...... Remember, WE both stopped after realizing passion isn't what we wanted right now. Secondly, I have not posted this but since Cathy's boss has left, ironically, when I do the laundry, guess what? No T back underwear, back to the grannie underwear which she wore for 17 years, oh and NEVER, I repeat, NEVER is past 5:30 or 6:00pm....and lastly, the pieces fell into place from a Saturday a LONG time ago when she came home from an "appointment" crying....her cell phone bill showed an incoming call from GUESS WHO the a.m. .... and then a few weeks later, he moves out of state with family and no longer works there. Also, she no longer shaves her bottom teenie tiny like it was and once again I might add, my wife never shaved her pubic area EVER. I just don't know how much evidence there needed to be to say the needle pushed past the point of being paranoid and reality. Last evening, it was close to 10pm when Cathy called from work and began busting my stones about everything and anything....then said why don't you go out or hinted at that, then I said WTF Cathleen, can't I even say something and she said the word FXuck offends me, now granted you guys don't know her, she cusses and uses it, I said you cuss like a sailor and she said something back.... I went out, I called Sandy, she was kinda scared of someone and said to come over. I sat all night in a separate chair talking, I reclined in the recliner for 4 hours just talking until 4 a.m.....then I rubbed her feet, then I called it a night and no hug, no kiss, nothing....I went home. Oh my god how can I tell you how I feel when I don't know how I feel.....I emphasize the aformentioned because I don't want to think I now care for someone else but you know what, I do. Read back about Sandy, she isn't in perfect health, as a matter of fact, earlier after work I'd called her and she said she had been throwing up and I went and got her some soup, dropped it off then went home. Just doing that for someone who tilts their head and said "you are so sweet, thank you"... you have no idea how long it has been since I saw someone actually look at me that way. Had this been Cathy, she would have said thanks, put it over there by the microwave and I'll get to it later, then would have complained about her stomach and I would have tried to rub her back or something in the past and she would have said stop it, rubbing my back makes me feel sicker. Today, Cathy BUSTED my arse badly this morning about being quite the party animal..... I said NO, you are wrong, I went out and went over to a friends house and watched tv .. She said OH, you aren't going out with your seedy friends...ya, my seedy friends, hmmm, the seedie friend she calls is my manager at work and we had a beer with the mayor of the city....she calles the mayor a mobster. See, everything I do gets berated and degraded in some way or another. Anyway, I took Cathy to lunch and we talked and I said I wouldn't be the party animal you state if things weren't the way they were, that things would be me being Mr. Domesticated, and she said what do I mean. I said, I still love you and I wanted to throw out that if you wanted to give us a chance then do so. She said STOP, STOP, STOP.....things aren't going to do that so forget it, you accused me of something a long time ago and I can't take it. I said well, can we talk about both of us and she said no.....I said I wanted to explain where I go in the evening, she said... I hope you are getting on with your life, otherwise I don't need to know nor want to know about your business. I tried, I wanted to be open, honest, and tell her but she doesn't wanna hear it...... Oh, I don't hide phone numbers, I gave Sandy my home number, I want nothing to hide, and another thing, my son knows I have a friend who is female, he called me once when I was over there and I said I'm at a friends house....and told him and then explained. He is more adult than I thought as he said it is good to see that I'm not stuck on mom... And when I call her, I don't hide the number... I don't run outside on my cell phone as Cathy did, I even sit on the couch in the same room and talk. During my talks with Sandy, she said all the things you all have about needing to get on with my life and rid myself of the house, the bills, etc....She said that the fact she is still there in Sandy's eyes shows my wife is confused. However, as I told Sandy, I can't stand it anymore, I have cried and cried..... Today, I even cried after I told Cathy about the party animal wanting or willing to be Mr Domesticated like I was for the entire marriage. Ms. Stoneface was cold...unreceptive, and all. I told my wife we need to act now to move on and stop this waiting, frustrating, unproductive time and she and I have agreed to begin Sunday to separate files in the basement, go through junk we don't need and throw it out, and even to have a garage sale, then KEEP on going until all is ready to sell. ++++++++ "Bob, with this woman.. You are taking it WAY too far. Showering, kissing? Jeez man. If Cathy were doing this, you would totally flip out. You were accusing her of doing this without even proof! Now you are? You are becoming the MM to Sandy. Check out the MM/OW forum. This is how it starts. You two are way over the friendship line, doesn't matter if you had sex or not. Platonic means nothing sexual. You realize you cheated on Cathy now, right? " ++++++++ Ya, I did shower, we did kiss but I swear on my life we stopped. If Cathy NOW were doing this, I wouldn't flip out, you cannot imagine how many times I wondered, I just knew something was up...and as for proof, the same would be true of Cathy accusing me, no proof. So now I am, but I had a good woman stop along with me to say, hey, this isn't something we want. When the time comes, it must be right and without any reservation, and another thing, she (Sandy) won't until her wall is down, she said too many bricks are coming down too quickly to put in her words.. She doesn't trust and doesn't EVER do anything like what happened in the shower, I'd be the first guy she has seen naked since 14 years ago of marriage, and two years on her own, nobody. As for me, almost the same thing. I won't be the MM to Sandy, first of all, SHE wouldn't have it this way, mainly because it has been done to her, and I don't either. I am not hiding the facts Jeff... I'm not posting dishonesty, intercourse... I admitted I guess you could call it cheated though I do realize it is cheating, we're not a couple, we aren't hubby and wife, no way, no how. Before, I would never, I repeat NEVER have been put into the situation, I would have RAN home to my wife. Before, I wouldn't even have had the opportunity to meet sandy.... I was overwhelmed, I admit that.... Sandy is prettier than my wife, much sweeter, also much much much more of a lady. I mean that based on long talks....I realized through talks how devoted a wife she was, it is identicle to how I was as a husband. I realize what may come, I'm having a good time treating a princess as a princess, I open the door for her and she holds out her hand real dainty for me to hold while she turns to exit my car....She is not some slut, I'm not going to be an MM to her, for no other reason if it is only for this reason alone, I can't do this to Sandy. I could moreso do this to Cathy than to Sandy. I told Sandy I loved my wife and everything..... My 18 year anniversary comes up Sunday, guess what Cathy wants to do? She wants to do nothing, say nothing of the anniversary. She told me this a month ago... Two weeks ago, I asked her out on a date, Cathy told me really, really pissed off that I don't understand... and when will I realize what I did ruined the marriage, and then went on about what a piece of garbage I am. So please, please, please have some empathy for wanting to be friends with someone else, I'm human, I made a mistake, I must live that I made a mistake, I also understand that I tried, cried, tried with my wife. Ya, I do think Cathy is a bit jealous... why else would she bite me and all.....berate my friends, call me a party animal. I can see it bothers her.... Just perhaps, just on the tiny bit of hope, I'd be able to break through her wall but NOPE, it has not. So I'm sorry but please understand I'm being honest, I'm not hiding anything nor will I do that here. bob Link to post Share on other sites
jmargel Posted September 29, 2004 Share Posted September 29, 2004 I'm glad you are being honest here, and with yourself. Cathy has alot of hurt pent up in her, and as long as she has this hurt she can't go through the process of forgiving you yet. You have to want to let Cathy and this marriage go because of the marriage itself, not because of Sandy. Seems like you are alot more willing to do this, since you met this other woman. What happens if you and Sandy don't work out? What I am trying to say is you need to consider all your options. I am not telling you to stay with Cathy or go with Sandy. Yes, you have changed alot but that does not equate for the things you've done in the past to Cathy. She doesn't know how to deal with the hurt she was given, or perhaps the guilt she has if she cheated on you. A good counselor will get everything out in the open in a constructive way. Not for the sake of saving the relationship, but just to at least understand what truly happened, and how Cathy can either move on with her life and deal with the hurt she was given. Her way of dealing with her hurt is to try to make you feel the same way she has. Like Sandy said, her wall is coming down too fast. That's not good. You need to slow things down a little, and she is probably very confused as well. If she were to post on this forum, perhaps it might go something like this: ---- Hi all, Need your advice. I met this really great, sweet man who's married. I was abused in past relationships and divorced myself. I have a good heart and a great personality. I also have kids of my own. The problem is, this man is still living with his wife, saying she treats him bad, but he's also told me what he's done in the past as well. We've done some initimate things together, yet he tells me he still loves his wife. I'm confused, because I don't want my heart broken again. I really can't take that, especially since I am very sick. I don't want to put my heart out there for someone, who might not be able to give me back 100% like I would them. Is there a chance he might go back with his wife? Sandy ---- Now, you know the responses she would get. Which would be to focus on your children and your health and don't worry about this married man, because they usually never leave their wives. You have to understand where Cathy is coming from and where Sandy is. Don't use Sandy to try to get back with Cathy. That is very wrong. Yes you have been deprived alot by your wife and what she is doing is wrong, but for right now you need to keep Sandy out of the picture in terms of where your marriage is. Ya, I did shower, we did kiss but I swear on my life we stopped. If Cathy NOW were doing this, I wouldn't flip out, you cannot imagine how many times I wondered, I just knew something was up...and as for proof, the same would be true of Cathy accusing me, no proof. Wrong answer there! Fact is there IS something going on between you & Sandy. What you thought what your wife did, is what you are doing now! That is wrong to accuse someone of doing something, then even without proof decide to do the samething to that person that you accused them of. What if Cathy accused you of cheating, yet you didn't. Things went sour for the both of you through all of this, so she found another guy. I am trying to give you Cathy's view on things here as well. I am concerned about everyone's well-being. Link to post Share on other sites
VivianLee Posted September 29, 2004 Share Posted September 29, 2004 Bob?? This thread from another section reads differently from what you are saying here.... http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t48730/ Link to post Share on other sites
jmargel Posted September 29, 2004 Share Posted September 29, 2004 Bob.. you left out the penitration and the oral stuff.. How can we even help you if you decide not to disclose this stuff to us? You DID cheat, doesn't matter if you 'stopped'. Link to post Share on other sites
VivianLee Posted September 29, 2004 Share Posted September 29, 2004 How can we even help you if you decide not to disclose this stuff to us? Very true! Link to post Share on other sites
Author Poconobob Posted October 1, 2004 Author Share Posted October 1, 2004 I'm sorry, I wasn't more specific, if you go back to the original post where I said what happened, you'll see we stopped which is absolutely true, there was a brief but nonetheless penetration. I knew the threads here are all intertwined, especially if you put a post where someone has you listed as a friend.....honestly, I didn't think anything of it. I know eventually I'll go to bed with her, it is going to be time, a long time. Put it this way, for the past few days, prime example Wednesday evening, I went over after work, bought her some basic flowers from Wally Mart, and some gummy bears... I sat on the opposite couch, we talked until 1 a.m......about life, about MY life, about things I have not had conversations about with anyone in years, about self worth, about goals and aspirations. Anyway, long story short, when I left, she put her finger up to her lips and turned her cheek for me to give her a kiss bye. We've gone BACK that far.... I had thought I could have had self restraint as Sandy is very prim and proper and it was an accident which came from us making the mistake of going out on a date dancing and unfortunately for me, drinking a couple beers...for me, beer literally two, not four is like a 6 pack or more as my tolerance is low low.... The above ISN'T an excuse, I live by my own admoniitions, faults, and core values. Before I entered into a friendship, I knew the consequences, I initially and BRUTALLY honest was obsessed with wanting sex. Not to get back, nothing except I felt empty..... My DOCTOR CALLED ME JUST A MOMENT AGO, I TOLD HIM, HE ABSOLUTELY RIPPED MY BUTT OUT, SAID IT IS WRONG, i DON'T NEED THIS RIGHT NOW....so I'll break up the relationship/friendship tonight. bob Link to post Share on other sites
Papillon Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 LONGEST. THREAD. EVER!!! Keep it going folks! I love passionate discussions! Link to post Share on other sites
jmargel Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 Bob, We are not saying to break up the friendship. You two enjoy spending time together. What we are saying is for the sake of Cathy and Sandy, a decision needs to be made. Everybody makes choices in life and lives by their consequences. If you were in Sandy's shoes, wouldn't you want to know where you stand? Sandy isn't going to wait around for months to find out what is going on between you and your wife. That's not fair to her. If Cathy doesn't want anything else to do with the marriage, she needs to move on as well. I think what we are all basically saying, is to not let this drag out. You have to decide who you want to be with. Then follow through with it. Do you love Cathy? Are you in love with her? Do you want to be with Sandy as a friend or can you knowingly do what it takes to have a long-term committed relationship with someone else? Are you ready to move on from your past? Are you prepared to say 'No' to Cathy if she asks for you to come back after you left and now with Sandy? These are some of the questions you need to answer for yourself. Sandy has been very patient and you are a lucky guy to have found her. You also have a wife who is very upset and depressed and still has alot of anger in her for some reason. I hope you didn't 'end' things with Sandy like you said you were. If you continue your friendship with Sandy you need to take things slow. Not because you are married, but relationships in general are known to last so much longer when things are taken slow. Link to post Share on other sites
VivianLee Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 Bob, if you really feel you need to stop things with Sandy, you need to be prepared for some things...first of all, you need to be as gentle as possible with her. She is so vulnerable and she doesn't deserve to be hurt. Also, be prepared to be very depressed, having Sandy made your life at home more bearable....be ready to feel the full impact of what things are at home..... If you think you can be with friends or even lovers with Sandy without hurting your son, Sandy and yourself, then do what you think it best....if you could get your wife out of the house and start divorce proceedings, the outcomes and situation would be so much less foggy!! If you want to be with Sandy, that's your business, the friendship shouldn't hurt but the physical part is your decision....just don't tell us one thing on one thread and say such a very, very different thing on another....it makes giving you advice confusing and takes away from the situation.... Hang in there and think really, really hard before you end things with Sandy. You may regret it and then can't get her back in your life.... Take care Link to post Share on other sites
Author Poconobob Posted October 3, 2004 Author Share Posted October 3, 2004 I'm learning all the twists and turns which I never encountered in life before, I don't think I made a mistake but truly I did go too fast, waaaay too fast. Today is my 18 yr anniversary and Cathy wants NOTHING to do with me, marriage, nor anything like even a card or even acknowledge it. We're cleaning house today, fun, fun, fun... bob Link to post Share on other sites
jmargel Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 You still friends with Sandy? You never did answer our questions. You are all into Sandy, yet you are upset because your wife doesn't want to celebrate your 18th wedding anniversary. I don't want to bring this up & rub it into your face, but you did just cheat on Cathy, yet you seem more upset that she doesn't want to celebrate the anniversary. You two are just co-existing with each other, which isn't good. You need to make some decisions in your life, granted they are going to be hard ones, but by not making a decision, you are actually making one (by continuing this soap opera, and hurting yourself). Link to post Share on other sites
Papillon Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 This post will make this and the "if it's meant to be..." thread equal at 247 posts each! Link to post Share on other sites
VivianLee Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 Today is my 18 yr anniversary and Cathy wants NOTHING to do with me, marriage, nor anything like even a card or even acknowledge it At this point, why does that surprise you?? Link to post Share on other sites
Author Poconobob Posted October 5, 2004 Author Share Posted October 5, 2004 First, I'll address Sandy, we're just friends, you can cast all the cheating at me as I deserve it but one thing I have to reiterate is I as well as Sandy stopped, we didn't go all the way through with it, just momentary penetration then stopped. So why didn't I expound, simply because I felt embarrassed at the length the relationship went, guilty for myself being so weak, and I might add, buzzed on a few beers which I'm not supposed to have in the first place. I had just sunk to the lower half of the tank, along with pond scum on the bottom, you don't need to remind me of it, I already know it. However hard this is to spell out, my wife is living her own life, she is going out, staying out, and with all the evidence, who knows what happened, she isn't on here to put her thoughts as I am. Meanwhile, I get lecture after lecture from Sandy about "it isn't over" between my wife and I since we're in the same house, and frankly, I'm even tired of hearing her say it though I don't say anything. She tells me, for my kids sake, for my life, it is better to stay, try, try, try and if so try harder, and if that doesn't work, get something that reminds her of me from eons ago. I tried to tell Sandy, I just cannot cope with the cold, cold, cold life I live. You cannot imagine what it is like to live in the same house, see her, still have feelings though not obsessively and know she will be gone. You all speak of making decisions, well, the decisions were made, we're to live in the same house until sold, live separate lives, and then go our separate ways. The only reason I'd hoped for some resolve on our anniversary was that I wanted to be friendly, not lovers, not passionate, just friends and possibly go out. That just humbled me more to realize there is nothing, absolutely nothing I can do to salvage a friendship. You know I did try, you also know I'm only human, I yearned for something I thought I needed only to realize while beginning to sleep with another woman that it was wrong and stopped. Okay, I cheated, I'm a piece of garbage, I don't feel bad because in my heart, I know I'm a good person and I have 18 blissful years to prove it. Just how long can a person go without any sort of acknowledgement that you are a good person, that you are worthy, etc? I was weak, now I'm strong, yes I did initially tell Sandy what my doctor said and we had a long talk, loooong talk about it all and came to the conclusion that until my divorce is final, we'll be friends who go out as a couple with other couples but end it at that, I need to have a friend, and no male friends seem to understand, I am more like a female in my heartstrings than male, that is evident. They say, screw it, it is over, lets go out.... Sandy says try try....but just how long do I have to try? Hence the reason, come Thursday, I'm taking a leave of absence from work, driving to Florida, my doctor has ordered me to come down for I assume a ripp arse bunch of sessions, and oh by the way, a doctor up here had changed my meds all around and it has me screwed up. Lovely, huh..... So I leave Thursday of this week, return sometime around the 22nd. Trust me, please trust me when I say I feel bad over what took place over the course of that 20 minutes between a shower and you know what......I found though it isn't about sex, but rather about companionship I crave. I've been as blunt as I can and candid.... bob Link to post Share on other sites
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