believe it or not do trust her, I just am suspicious...

[VivianLee]

, and I might add, buzzed on a few beers which I'm not supposed to have in the first place.

 

and oh by the way, a doctor up here had changed my meds all around and it has me screwed up

 

So if you are sober and have your meds straight, you are a better person that makes better decisions??

 

You are human and you haven't had sex (I think) since February. Perhaps as a normal man you wanted to have sex with the woman (that was nude and attractive) that was right there in the same room with you....does it make it right? No, but it makes you normal and tempted....

 

Stop making excuses for everything or finding reasons for everything. Stop making layers or analyzing.....stop having other people (maybe even us at time) make your decisions (including your doctor)...

 

Start being respondsible for your actions (yours only) and face reality (stop giving the excuse for meds or other things....just face the fact you are human and you screw up royally at times, just like the rest of us humans do...learn from it and move on). For some reason PARTLY due to the years of your depression and being over medicated, your marriage fell apart. You tried to work it out. It didn't work. You're selling the house and she should move out when it's sold. You are getting a divorce. You have someone you want to have a relationship with when you are free. You need to get your medicine straightened out ONCE AND FOR ALL...

 

More importantly, you have a son that needs attention and care and needs to feel safe and secure.....

 

That's what things look like from the outside looking in....you know your heart and what the whole story is....

[jmargel]

Bob,

 

Like I said before if you know in your heart that it is truly over with Cathy and you can move on, then the first step is by not living together.

 

If you had a choice right now to be with either Sandy or Cathy, assuming both would take you, who would you go with? That's an important question right there. Forget what's happened in the past. Answer it honestly. That will tell you whether or not you are ready to move on for another relationship.

 

If you are happy with Sandy, then be with her. But I think you owe it to Cathy to let her know that you have another interest. I believe it's best she know before you goto Florida. It'll give you two time to think things through seperately.

[Poconobob]

To all, thanks once more... I truly am having trouble collecting my thoughts lately, I feel like in my brain, the channel changer is clicking station after station and not stopping on any particular thought. I tried to think this through, why am I so sad and somber? Meds, outlook on life, my marriage, work, headaches, just what is it and I came to the conclusion it is a combination of all, of some depression, of things not moving one way or the other, of an interest, not a fallout relationship, a true interest in Sandy. I cannot help how I feel, I wasn't "looking" to hook up, it just happened that someone was hurt as I was, was neglected, was all the things I've been through and she totally understands in the matter of weeks so much about me that my wife doesn't get or refuses to acknowledge. So why do I feel guilty? Easy, I shouldn't say guilty, more like unhappy....I feel this way because I know in my heart now there is no hope for my marriage, I don't want it to work out; not because of Sandy, because I am better than being a hang on person to Cathy out of pity..... in other words, I don't want her sympathy to keep her with me and that would be the only reason. Those are her words, not mine....

 

So all things not being equal, which would I chose.....for convenience, long heart felt angst against saying this but Cathy. For ALL intents and purposes, I wouldn't choose, the relationship with Sandy ISN'T a choice at this point as we're only being friends, and that is how I want it. I cannot have this muddy my waters any more than they already are....however, say the house is sold, say the papers are done for divorce, say all IS EQUAL....then probably I'd still have to think about it. You know how I feel towards Cathy, you also know how she feels about me or superficially feels. IF I had to choose under the pressure of both standing there equally with open arms, I'd have to choose Sandy because I don't trust Cathy. There, I said it, I don't trust and it took all those words to clarify in my mind exactly what it is preventing me from making a choice....I just can't trust, I can't trust that she'll be there because she hasn't been, she has told me things which made me feel like a piece of garbage which in my opinion were to mask things she did as an excuse to make that okay. Know what I mean?

 

Now as to telling Cathy about Sandy... I won't because I don't want to get screwed out of the divorce. Fair or not.. I can't. Cathy hasn't been 100% honest.... I'm going to be at odds anyway with her until she moves and I just have to have time to collect my thoughts by myself and not with anyone in a love relationship.

Remember, Sandy is going to be more of a needy person as she isn't 100% healthy, in fact the past couple days she was quite ill, I had to help her, OH, and she booted her roommate out and is all alone and happy about it. Her roommate was taking advantage of Sandy's generous nature and literally stole something. So I've had to help Sandy deal with that as well as help her with throwing up, etc.

 

I had to postpone Florida....I decided to fly rather than drive for obvious reasons. I have to let the weekend pass before prices are decent. My doctor, Vivian said I need to make my own decisions... I have to listen to my doctor in Florida, he is REALLY the voice of reason and has said NO RELATIONS with any female, none, point blank none. He told me about rebound relationships and how they have no solid foundation to build on. See, he is smart, and also a mentor...

 

Did I mention Sandy wants to go to Florida.....sheesh, that I don't need, I need to get away, Sandy used to live in Florida when she was a cheerleader for a football team that was semi pro... and said she wanted to visit friends. I told her not this time, I have to be myself, be collected in my thoughts. However so, the little devil in me wanted to spend the 230.00 and get a companion ticket. I already decided. I'm not 100% sure I can continue to say no though, she too needs a break and has not gone to see relatives in a year. Please don't yell at me, if you cannot tell already, I'm confused enough.

 

bob

[whichwayisup]

Bob, you do what you need to do for yourself. Put yourself FIRST. I'm glad you're going away to think things out and get some well needed alone time.

 

No yelling ya here from over here, not my place.

 

I think you are doing the right thing about not telling Cathy about Sandy because of how it might affect the D. Go with what your heart tells you to do.

 

Good luck and really relax on that trip!!

[jmargel]

From your last post you made it clear that you no longer want to be in a relationship with Cathy. Cathy is also telling you she hopes you move on with your life, with her not being a part of it. Now is the time to move on, and it's ok to walk away from the marriage.

 

I would only recommend divorce in two scenerios

 

1. One spouse has done something illegal or so immoral that the other spouse can never trust the other again. I'm not necessarily saying cheating, but for example one spouse molesting a child (my wife's step dad has done this).

 

2. When there is no anger left between the spouses, and they both in their minds have concluded they have done everything possible to work the relationship out. That they are just not compatible anymore. Knowing in your OWN heart that you have done everything to recify any past transgressions and to try to build upon what is left.

 

Bob, in both you and Cathy's mind I believe you two have chosen #2. Granted you & me may think counseling would help her out so much, just not only in the relationship but more importantly individually, but she will not consider it. Only time will allow her to release whatever is built up inside of her and to eventually seek help professionally. You have done what a husband should do. You are not her therapist, and should not have to be. She also does not seek help. She's resolved to the fact that she has tried everything, just like you have.

 

Bob, you aren't the only victim here. You said she has treated you like garbage, and in the past few years you have treated her bad too. It's a two way street. Don't look at what you two had for the past 17 years as wasted time. You never know, you two may get back together again down the road. When I think of Cathy I think of someone who's hurt and doesn't know how to deal with what is bothering her. That she has alot to say, yet she won't say it. The only thing that will help is time, and when she feels ready to talk.

 

As for Sandy if she wanted to see relatives for the week, and you don't want her to go with you (which is understandable) why not help her out with buying a ticket on another flight? She'll still be able to see her family, yet you'll be able to do your own thing.

 

It sounds like you and Sandy have alot in common, and it's unfornuate that she is so sick. I hope they can do something for her to either cure her, or make her at least more comfortable. I hope she is seeking more than one opinion with her medical problems. I know a guy who was told he had 2 months to live, due to a brain tumor. That he wouldn't be able to even see his child graduate HS that summer. He refused that answer, and kept searching until he found a surgeon who would operate on him. He's still living today, five years later.

 

I would still recommend either finding your own place so that you are at least out of the house. I believe you think it is time to move on, in which that is ok to do.

[Poconobob]

Thanks for understanding...

 

I wanted to clarify something, how I wrote about being hurt, I know I'm not the only one who was hurt, I cast a great deal of hurt on Cathy as well. I assumed that you'd know that, hence the reason I didn't put it another way.

 

The reason #2 has to be chosen is exactly what you wrote, she and I don't fight, we're both under the understanding that it is time to be friends, separate things, and move on. When I try to talk about "us" for months now I have gotten DON'T....DON'T start talking, saying what you've already said, I'm over it, things cannot go on... Plus, she has a drive to go back to school which is obsessive, obsessive like someone with OCD, and consumes her evenings, consumes her thoughts, and she has said this will be a way for her to forget and move on. So how would I even if I wanted to work things out be able to do so...and for that matter, I could forgive yet not forget and to me that is a major stumble in the possibility of moving on with Cathy fore my heart lives on, my love for her will never cease yet at this point I see no way of assurance that there would ever be hope. Sure someday, we'll possibly meet again but that is a distant, remote possibility at best. I feel she feels she'll go to school for Nurse something beyond RN, and WILL meet a doctor, meet someone she thinks is on her playing field. For a long time, I've felt beneath her as if she thinks she is better than I am, and I'm not the only one who has this sense of her feeling superior. I don't have the education she has, I don't have the same aspirations she has, we've just grown in different directions, total strangers. See, I'd like to travel, see the world, enjoy life more in a way I grew up with my family.....She grew up poor, and wants to foster a career beyond the scope of what she thinks my comprehension is. Make sense? It is very hard to put to words..

 

As for Sandy, she grew up normal, she was with a rich, rich man, found it was not all it is cracked up to be and has now lived in an apartment for 2 years all alone with the exception of a roommate, and now said she seems to have found someone who has all the same qualities as she wanted in a man....i.e., honesty, NONVIOLENT, sweet, kind, gentle, and believes in being brutally honest and not a cheater. She has trouble still trusting even me, that is how hurt she is....kind of like a frail little deer afraid of its own shadow. To a degree I feel IDENTICAL...I had felt worthless, used, and kept on falling back on what I did, how I was. Sandy explained that I cannot blame anyone, even Cathy....I can't blame myself as blame is something that happens as a result of guilt and being unable to change something and thinking that HAD I ONLY DONE THIS OR THAT.... and she said I need to stop that if Im able to and I need to stop and try, try, try to make things work at home because it is never better with someone else, you still carry the same self image, same personality, etc. She used the old grass isn't greener saying and said try it, you'll see it isn't greener.... That is the brutally honest person she is and you cannot imagine how I appreciate finally seeing honesty as well as hearing honesty. I only cannot understand how within a matter of weeks that we feel as friends so close. I wouldn't exactly say we are in love because at this point it can't be so but I'd say we do have "love" for each other in a way I cannot explain, in a way I NEVER felt with Cathy, and something I can honestly tell you that with Cathy, it was all sexual attraction, messing around, and satisfying each other as our connection. With Sandy, it is the opposite, sure attraction though no sexuality driving the connection, there is nothing like being friends with someone you can trust. Best friends, sure I'd go that far. With respect to her illness, she WON'T at this point go for another opinion.... She is too darn stubborn...

Which speaking of illness, if I didn't truly care for her as a person, trust me, I would never have gotten into this friendship the way I have, the last thing I thought I would have wanted is a relationship with someone I know I won't be able to grow very old with. So in that, I find resolve in the fact I'm not looking to replace Cathy, hope that makes sense.... It just happened Sandy and I click.....and click in a way I cannot understand which is why I wanted to have time alone, time to think.

Do I want someone else in my life at this point? I wish I could say no... I wanted to go out with a lady who asked me out kinda sorta months ago, a 23 year old psychologist whom I sold a car to. Had I solely been looking for a "mate".....I would have jumped so to speak on that. The girl is a PSU grad, pretty, and would have been a blast to "toy" with. I did have thoughts about the youth wanting to date an old guy like me, lol....

Now here is a healty, wholesome, young girl and I didn't.....then there is Sandy, older as I am, not 100% healthy, pretty waaaaaay beyond anyone I dated yet the attraction is dumb things like her actions, very animated, her personality, her honesty, and bluntly, for her understanding that LIFE isn't forever.

See, I had the same thing happen to me after a car accident, I realized I could have died and that what is important isn't money, isn't how much I make but like sandy points out while on a walk with her looking at the leaves, looking at the flowers, such things I grew to appreciate but my wife NEVER has, has no interest in. Sandy walked around and pulled all those leaves and flowers and made an arrangement, then walked over and handed it to me and said here, I made this for you, it is the beauty of nature. Then she said how she never appreciated little things...and I was like NO WAY...last winter, it had snowed and I was just thinking how pretty nature is, then I saw deer walking as it snowed and I saw such beauty.....and I just sat and sat watching while freezing thinking how precious life is, how frail and fragile everything is and that one day the snow will still fall and I'll not be around to see it.

 

My son came up to me and said I seemed so so so so happy, so confident, and was glad to see me like this. I've been doing things with him, as a matter of fact, tonight we go to a hockey game, Cathy included.

 

Talk about odd, Cathy now CONSTANTLY is asking me to do things with her, not without our son granted, but as a family. She PUSHES me away if I speak something about her and I but still seems more than in a long time to want to be with me. I don't know if it is because I sometimes don't come home until the morning or if she is confused. All I know is I couldn't have backed off any more than I have now done. Let me clarify my staying out all night, first of all, I sleep on a love seat, NOT in a bed at Sandy's.....and it is after a long night of sitting and talking and talking and talking and ya, crying, laughing, and simply put being on common ground with someone I've never had before.

And I want to also say that there is NO SHOWER together, that started by the way because her back ached and she asked me to wash her back and and wanted mineral ice on it afterward and I stupidly disrobed and climbed into the shower, only later did she tell me that she didn't mean for me to get into the shower but to literally wash the back. No wonder when she initially said she wanted me to wash her back that she went in and said she'd call me when she was ready for me to wash her back. When I peered in, she had a wash cloth covering her rear end. See how dumb I was climbing in thinking it was inferred to be something it wasn't. YOU HAVE NO IDEA what a heel I felt like....Guess I should have said something about that before but I felt as though I would have been KILLED by you all for thinking with the wrong head.

I wanted to share that with you because I wanted you to know the type person Sandy is....and by the way, I also didn't tell this but the next day when I was over at her house, she was sitting there and I was trying to hold her hand and she got angry and said get out, this isn't going to happen. I was like what? And she said you know what happened, this isn't going to happen... I tried and tried to talk about it saying that wasn't my motive and she saw right through and said I was like all the other men, only after one thing and one thing only and she does not give it up then RAN away.

 

Well, gotta go

 

I swear on my own life that 99% or more is feelings of being happy as a human being having a friend who just happens to be female than anything else.

 

 

bob

[Poconobob]

I've given this thought...and I am going to allow her to go with me. She looked so tired of being told no and it bothered me so much not to allow her to go with me so she can see friends/relatives. Though I wanted to be alone, I can also relate to Sandy needing to get away also. My problem is that I don't want things to get out of hand again as in going to florida under the understanding it is as friends, nothing more. I will reiterate that I'm not wanting this to be a frolic in the sheets trip but rather a trip where I spend time alone, will see her and maybe go to the beach or spend time talking but bluntly, I just want to do what is right. By that I mean I need to get my home sold, divorce, etc before entering a love relationship. By the time you realize sometimes it is too late and I want to say, thanks....thanks for catching on to something that was happening to me. I made my resolve to not make excuses, to listen to my doctor, and to be a friend to a girl I have feelings for yet now understand boundries are set and I'm way too comfortable with that to allow myself to feel guilty on top of all y other problems.

 

Sandy is once again not feeling well, this bug has her down...I spent days trying to comfort her from a distance so I don't end up sick. Anyway, I am not going to tell her I agreed to allow her to go until I hear from my panel of friends here.

 

Tonight, I went to a hockey game with my family, Cathy sat next to me and was pleasant and not her usual mean mood. I sat and thought while the game went on about the question posed to me about which one would I choose. I must say, even with Cathy being nice, even with her next to me, I just don't see myself wanting to be with her beyond being friends. If she were to say, let me move back into the bedroom, let us forget what happened, I'd be inclined to say NO. This actually feels good to put this, I don't know why but I think the majority of my dilemma was thinking I was so worthless that nobody would want to be around me and that Cathy was a bit of a comfort zone, my holding onto someone who didn't want held and that was frustration to the max. Now, I see that we're not so compatible but also realize she is the mother of our son and for that, I'll love her forever.....and truly, one cannot go all these years without still loving the person but the love is like the love for grandma, not "in love" as I thought I was.

 

I know I have a long, lonely, dusty road headed my way, I dread the day I pack, move, and all but most of all, I dread the day I say goodbye to my life long friend and companion Cathy. Yep, this part has me perplexed as why would I dread the day I kiss her cheek and say good luck? Perhaps it is like thinking that for example grandma comes to visit and you dread the day she goes home??? All I know is my thinking needs to be addressed by my doctor and THAT is also why I don't wanna pull in another direction with someone else until this is over.

 

Is it normal to feel for lack of a better word, DREAD....perhaps this is too harsh a word, more like I don't look foreward to having to say goodbye, the break up of our POD... It was so nice to once have a family and I'll always look back fondly at my years of good times with my wife. However, she is on one track and I'm on another....and I know it cannot go on like this. Co-dependency is a bitch to let go of....

 

Sorry, I gotta go, this makes me think in circles. I'm sure I want out, I'm unsure of my future, and I'm scared of what lies beyond the comfort zone I had with my wife but all I know is I'll have to do this as I cannot fathom going on and on and on thinking of it coming out with a different result, that is insane to think "had I only done this or that".......besides, it hurts to think of what could have been and what reality is. what I mean is this, reality is way different than what my minds eye wanted things to be. I wanted a false hope to come out of a bad relationship, go to counseling, come out with a new life with Cathy but I see that she isn't the person I want to spend the rest of my life with anymore.

 

bob

[Poconobob]

I WISH there was something to allow me to sleep in peace, I'm up like 10 times a night since I was taken off zyprexa....and no I'm not making excuses, I truly am sooo fatigued. It isn't stress, it is the zyprexa had a nightly intoxicating effect to it and I went out easily. So what is my point? Well, I'm asking opinions here because it has me so I am forced to have like a pot of coffee in the a.m., I'm having the severe headaches, and I can't even work. Hence the reason I'm going to florida for a doc visit. You'd think I could just go back on zyprexa and be okay.....well, for some reason or another, the doctor who took me off up here won't put me on because it was such a low dose and mainly because of the risks and the weight gain I had. Since ceasing, I've lost as of yesterday at the gym a total of 19 pounds in a month. My Xanax was cut, my Effexor XR was left alone... Down in florida, my doctor is furious with me over allowing someone to change my meds and now won't do anything unless I come down for a series of tests as in a heart stress test, psyc eval, blood work, and only probably 10 other tests. I'm venting if you can't tell already, I'm dog tired, and dreading the long flight and long, long, long series of hours/days spent sitting in his office. Then I get to get my butt ripped out by my other doctor, the one who yells at me.

Just thought I'd share what is in store.....and to say that I cannot believe there are so many inept doctors up here in Pennsylvania, WHY, WHY.... I feel so punch drunk from lack of sleep, for the fact I screwed up cheating on my wife....for a bunch of crap I did. My good friend in florida out of the blue called me while at the hockey game---I told him what happened with my "cheating" and all and even he said how wrong it was. Now I feel good about myself, don't get me wrong...I'm just overtired.

 

bob

[jmargel]

You need your sleep. Seems like everytime your meds change, everything gets screwed up.

 

Even with the sleep deprivation, you seem to be thinking more clearly. Like I said before, with Cathy she has alot of hurt inside her, and only time will allow her to be able to talk to you about it. People deal with hurt in different ways and this is her way of dealing with it. I am concerned about her, but I would be more concerned if she were to just blow things off. At least she knows and has communicated with you that something is wrong in her own way.

 

As for Sandy, I would suggest she stay in another hotel room. Different flights if possible. You really don't need your ass chewed out by your doctor, you know what you did wrong. Learning from it is one of the best things to come out of something like that. Sandy has an appreciation for life, she seems like she has a good head on her shoulders. Becareful though that Sandy doesn't try to become your therapist. Don't let that happen. It's great you have a friend who cares about you so much. She seems like a woman that most guys would fall for quite easily.

 

What I believe is that Cathy doesn't want to let go of the 'family' part of things. It's alot easier to stay in an enviroment when you are comfortable in it, even though you may not be happy. Leaving and experiencing the unknown is alot more difficult.

 

Of course you aren't going to be looking forward to saying goodbye to Cathy. It is never easy, however a decision needs to be made on what's going to happen next. It's a big decision to finally let go of 17 years and everything you two had together. It's a life changing decision. It's not to be taken lightly either. No one here can tell you what to do. Only your heart can. We can advise you on what to do after you make your decision, but we can't make the decisions for you.

 

However, I don't recommend you not making a decision until she moves out in July. Something needs to be done for yourself, for Cathy and for Sandy. I'm sure Sandy has feelings for you and it probably does hurt her that you are still going out with your wife, etc.. Even though she may say to 'work on it', it's her way of knowing if it's meant to be.

 

There's nothing wrong with still loving your wife, that's something she should always deserve. There is a difference between love and 'in love'. It's understandable that you are not 'in love' with your wife for the way things turned out the past few years.

 

As for Sandy she has a connection to you, something that may turn into something more. She is probably hoping, but also very unsure about alot of things.

 

As for the trip, you don't need us to make your decisions. If you want Sandy to go, take her. If you want to be alone down there, she can still go and spend the whole time with her family. She needs that. As for your doctor down there, I hope he supports you being friends with Sandy. If he doesn't, then I would have to question somethings about him. Have you told your Dr. that you no longer want to be with Cathy? That's something he should know.

[Poconobob]

First, no I have not told him I don't wanna be with Cathy anymore....guess I should but I know him, he'll immediately point to Sandy, that is a given, however between you and I the flame was out long before and it took realizing that to put me where I am now, UNDERSTANDING that at this point I don't wanna work things out unless she went to counseling, separated for a time, THEN appreciated me for who I am and not what I am not...or what I've become. Same holds true for me by the way, I have to appreciate who Cathy is and at this point I don't accept nor see me accepting. I felt therapy was the key just as you did and her saying what she feels is utterly unacceptable for the reason for leaving, i.e. how I treated her that fateful day on the phone when she went with her boss.

 

As for Sandy, well, trouble is, she doesn't have the funds to both fly down, rent a car, drive to family, and stay in a motel....that I do know, remember, I told you her roommate ripped her off...it was to the tune of $600 which was her giving the roommate the rent and bill money which the roommate blew. I know this happened, I witnessed it...See, Sandy has the flu, she gave the money in good faith and got screwed. This seems to be a pattern for the roommate and with my help, we booted her out, Sandy almost lost her apartment over it. The last staw kind of came when her roommate grabbed me in the crotch while I was watching over the sick girl and I told her off in spades. She had some comment like if you wanted some, you would have already been there with me.....I said LOOK, I don't want sex with Sandy, Tina, the roommate said, every guy wants something, don't gimme that, Sandy is known for NEVER putting out, she won't so don't count on it. I said that is better than doing you....YUCK....

 

Thanks for the words of wisdom on the confusion between love and in love.....and saying goodbye. We're working on getting the house ready as in packing up some clutter as most people have and then putting it on the market before july so this is in the works....I know cathy has gotten an atty or at least talked with one.

 

I agree, Sandy still wants something but is pushing me to work things out so she is sure, she has told me she has feelings and doesn't want to be hurt and has this big ole wall due to hurt. All you wrote is EXACTLY how she feels and by the way, she isn't playing therapist, it isn't like that. She and I talked about how parallel our lives were and she said it is easier to work things out at home than see if the grass is greener because it isn't.

 

I do loath the being alone part after the family is truly broken up....I'll leave it at that, I truly don't want to cry anymore but I know that day that comes will be the toughest of tough seeing her drive off into eternity. I must stop now as it bothers me.

 

Well, I'd loaned a lady some money to get a PFA on her husband, my builder of my home's wife, nice huh.....their lives have torn down in about the same time as mine. Difference is, he was physically and mentally violent...So I gotta go get the money I loaned her back....

 

bob

[VivianLee]

Bob,

jmargel has said everything I basically agree with and think should be said....I think despite the feelings that your meds are screwed up, you are basically going through withdrawals, give it some time before you take some more or get back on them....it could take up a month to get it out of your system but you should start being able to get to sleep as they get out of your system. Try walking or jogging for a few miles, that way maybe you can be too exhausted for your body to fight sleep....

 

I think last night you had your first real epiphany!! You realize now what you heart and head actually feels about Cathy. You've were basically force to feel these things due to her rejection BUT as hard as it is and as sad as it is....you are healing!! Already, you are healing!! That is awesome!! You won't forget her and never get "over" her to a full extent but your saying your feelings are like one feels towards a grandma is brillant! You are learning to place these feelings for Cathy that you aren't allowed (by her) to feel and turning them into something you can deal with, you can't just turn them off but you are placing them in another area of your heart!!

 

Packing up and leaving the house won't be easy because you are saying good bye to an institution, a part of your life that defined you at one time BUT you are learning to deal and heal and although it will be hard to put the final "lid on the coffin"....you will learn to remember the good times and enjoy a second chance at life that not many people are able to enjoy!!

 

You're going to be fine......hang in there!!

Take care!

[hotgurl]

hey Bob,

I feel for you. I have health problems too so I understand where you and Sandy are coming from. So many people take life for granted and sometimes it takes almost losing it or losing an aspect of it to make you realizes how the little stuff is important. You truely have changed after your accident for the better I think.

 

As for the meds. I understand that too it is hard to be on so many and they all have so many side effects. They can really screw with your mind exp the ones your taking. I also have severe uncontrolled migraines so I sorta understand and trust me finding a good doctor is like finding a neetle in a haystack.

 

What you need to do know is take care of yourself. Meaning you need to get out of the house and free yourself from this. It will be painful but it needs to be done I am sure it is aggravating your condition. Your health is so important you need to put that first. Have you ever tried alternative therapy. MEditation has helped me and yoga as well. Caffine is a killer and I had to cut i t way way down only 1 cup a day. what about melatonian for sleep

 

good luck and take care

[Poconobob]

Vivian, thanks for the shot of confidence, I know you are right, and I also know seeing Cathy daily takes additional tolls on my psychological outlook as when she is nice, I get kind of feeling like the old times when things were good but I had to realize that when nice, it is just that, being cordial, not coming back, not saying or inferring anything except for just being nice. I read into and saw things were not as they appeared, in that I mean I saw what I wanted or hoped to see and once time passed and I saw the true nature of the situation, I now see I must pull myself up by the boot straps and that I'm worthy of having other people care for me. She had me literally convinced I was the biggest piece of garbage there was and that nobody but her could put up with me and for that, I believed her. That even my doctor said was wrong but I couldn't help it....I clinged to the standpoint that I needed her...I needed the old Cathy who isn't there anymore. I now look at her differently...almost as if to see just a person sitting there like as I said grandma and not my wife. I no longer yearn for her to hold my hand and tell me it is okay as I have someone who constantly tells me or should I not say constantly but does tell me that I'm a good guy and that with my character, I'm better than that. That someone should feel lucky to have a sweet guy with a heart of gold in their lives and bla blabla on the good looking stuff but still, I guess I'm okay for the ripe ole age of 39.

Did I tell ya I have lost now as of this a.m. 21 pounds since coming off zyprexa? I am back in my size 34's and it feels good to look better and not be so puffy.

 

I wouldnt necessarily call it an epiphany but more like self realization....Dang, it took long enough huh....I think part of it was the med I was on was not right, hence the trip to florida.

As for exercise, I had been and still do go to the gym and do body building....I sit in the steam room, walk on the tread mill and all... it just seems like my sleep pattern needs tweaked a bit. I need to go to bed earlier and get up early so as to get back into the routine.

 

hotgurl, thanks.... I'm trying so hard to be a better person from all this and come out with self education on life aka a life lesson. As for Sandy, I just went over to check on her to see if she needs anything and she is doing better, lots better....she was cleaning house lightly which I told her not to do but she is a clean freak and though not such a bad thing, she certainly doesn't need to be on her hands and knees scrubbing the tile floor....I tried to take over and she said nobody needs to help me. Argggg but she did tell me to get her some shampoo, something that smells good, OH GREAT, so how am I to find that when my preference is friggen Prell...lol.

And I also gotta get her some ginger ale, and a new front door lock for her house so as to ensure nobody gets in. After having a roommate like that, only god knows who has a key... Sandy trusts too much.

 

Ya, I've tried meditation, it works, I have had every single thing poked, prodded, stuck, placed, rubbed into me....

I have had Ayurveda, Sacral Cranial massage, deep tissue massage, accupuncture, accupressure, some thing called cupping, you name it, I've tried it.....even surgery. The meditation I do not do as I should....I do practice the breathing for every nights relaxation before sleep but the problem is waking up like 10 times and not enough REM sleep.

 

Speaking of headaches, I got a doooooozie pumpin right now.

 

Please tell me more about caffine? I drink like a pot of STRONG, STRONG coffee a day, it would jump start my days since I was so out of it from the pill the night before and I need to be awake. I'll cut the caffine if it helps....but my cocktail was an 800mg ibuprophen and a half gallon of coffee which seemed to get rid of the headache....granted I pinged off the walls but I didn't have such a pounding headache either..

 

Thanks again,

 

bob

[hotgurl]

my neurologist said to lay off the caffeine. It's like a drug. It does work for the headaches but if you have it too much you start getting into rebound headaches. So I am allowed 1 cup per day. with the recommendation to give it up entirely, I can't do that. And I take some when I feel one coming on. it helps but doesn't make the headache go away. i also found massage and acupunture help at the onset. It doesn't take it entirely away but lessen the severity. note when you cut down the caffeine your headaches will be worse then settle down.

 

Do you have them everyday? What kind? Mine are basilar. basically when I have a headache mine basilar artery the one that goes from your brain stem to you spine constricts cutting off oxygen to my brain hence the severe auras. and stroke risk

 

I basically have headaches everyday. I can't take certain drugs because of the kind I have stroke risk and I have taken ever other drug available but I can't tolerate them. A couple put me in the er. They put me on hormone therapy and it has seemed to help.

 

The thing about it I hate them and it just ruins my life and put a lot of stress on my relationship. Especially when you start out healthy and wind up sick. I changes so much, I hate is because I can't do things I used to. I also have other issues caused by the drugs. One put me in the er and screwed up my gi track and I hasn't recovered yet. It hard for an so to understand when they haven't been there.

 

Probably that is why you and Sandy click so well she can understand you on a level most people can't. I am envious of you for that. I know you will make it through. It may be scary and sad but on the other end it will be wonderful.

[Poconobob]

Mine are as intense a headache as they can get, I too was on hormone stuff which puffed me out like no tomorrow and all that did was lessen the pain but put on weight like I've never encountered, even though I ate so little to combat the gain. I swelled to a size I never was before, size 38 and I'm 5'6" so imagine....now I'm back to 34's even have 'em on today without pushing in the stomach which is a milestone.

I was on a drug called Midrin which was removed from the shelves so to speak for bad reactions but it had worked for some time. Now upon awakening, I thank the day if "I'm" not with a headache as I have right now at this moment. Now I'm not saying I have such everpresent headaches that I cannot do anything nor do I have to be placed in the hospital. I once went for a migraine and my GI track was too messed up, ended up with IBS....irritable bowel syndrone...which sucked as bad as the migraines. What a life to see in the mirror a whole person only to know inside there resides a spider web of mess....my pain stems from the base of my skull which is always tender at the neck, then POUNDS in the temples and frontal part.... I had surgery on both jaws, aka TMJ...which helped some for years but it is slipping back to its old ways of rearing its tension and pain in the jaws on top of headaches.

 

Ya, Sandy and I click....it is very odd to find someone who is like me in such a way as they understand. I attribute it to like finding a one in a million person who is like me..... Sorta like two quads or midgets who find each other, very hard to do. I can deal with her pain, and likewise, she can deal with mine...

 

On the home front, OH MY GOD....did I get a mouth yelling at me this morning and continued off and on all morning....I won't go into detail but it was like I was a punching bag or something, it sucked badly....and unfortunately I fed into the anger and fussed back with sarcasm. She says she couldn't care less what I do as a party animal but I'm not getting the house ready to sell. I said F U you don't do anything except work and come home and read in your room... See, it is futile to argue, she repulses me the more I speak to her....on and on and on does she tell me what a useless piece of garbage I am without coming right out and saying it. That hurts because I'm not like that; I'm typically a home body....I stayed home without going out, without a social life for almost 8 months and tried to work things out....I think I waited too long as she was used to the comfort of coming home, seeing me try at home as in I worked, then came home, did laundry, washed dishes, ran dishwasher, vaccuum, carpet cleaner when needed, dusted.....all that and for what, now expectations of it being there even though even today she said we need to get the house ready as we're done, divorcing, and moving on.

Damn, I hate this, I want her to move out... I told her this and she bluntly said NO because we need to sell the house first....and that she and I cannot afford to have two households. I at this point would eat grass, drink water, and wear hole laiden shoes for the freedom.... And she kept on reiterating I was a party animal, stay out all night, then said BUT I don't care what you do, I only want the house ready to sell. DAMN this sucks...

 

I cannot wait until Tuesday, I leave.....ahhhhhh peace and quiet for a week!

 

bob

[VivianLee]

Bob, congratulations on the weight!! Good job!! 5'6? Now I understand your liking petite girls, I thought you had a problem with tall chicks (I'm 5'9!!)....just teasing!!

 

Most of all...I wish to goodness that house would be sold wwwwaaaayyyy before July! I think if you could get Cathy out of your household, you would heal even faster!! Consider that and work your butt off to get it ready for the market!! Her presence in your house is like the dead end to your moving on and being totally happy. It's over so "let the fat lady sing" and get that house out of your life!! You find a place for you and your son that will keep him in his school for his last year AND there are places that will let you lease monthly. It doesn't have to be a palace.....any place that's clean and without a constant reminder of your marriage ending would be a palace!!

 

I hope you have an awesome trip and don't have sex with Sandy!!

 

 

Take care!!

[Poconobob]

I'm still packing this morning, things are hecktic(sp?) and I procrastinate by nature so it just makes things worse, ha ha. I'm not packing anything other than shorts so it shouldn't be too bad, huh....I just wanna pour my drawer into the suitcase and say "done"...

 

As for Sandy, I had a long, long, long, long, long talk about sex or the lack thereof....and here is the scoop, basically and foremost, she is still ill....she craves the sun and wanting to visit family and moreso friends. We have for the days in the same room gotten twin beds and I foresee the only problem is the fights over the remote control, she keeps the tv on ALL the time and I can't sleep with the tv on. I wanted to say, she came out and said right from the start that this isn't going to be a love fest.....she doesn't feel good about herself anyway, she is back on the doom and gloom of her health. I have close friends who are doctors, I'm going to make an attempt for her to go over to see one at their house to see wha tis up. Her insides from the flu left her with being dehydrated, and on top of it all, a infection in the bladder, nice huh... Given that I pushed the roommate or should I say helped push the roommate out with her approval, I will feel better knowing she is with people she'll trust. Up here, the support structure other than her 11 year old daughter isn't much.... It is nice to help out, I for one if for no other reason felt she too needed to get away. It probably won't turn into a relationship after my divorce, she and I are too perfect for one another to ruin it the way it had been going; once we got the lines drawn, the understanding of the friendship, things are SO MUCH less complicated. I know it sounds harsh, I know it might sound as though I'm abandoning but I'm not, I simply can't be "with" someone.... I'm not saying I won't date other people, I'm saying my mistake taught me that I don't need intimacy....that I truly needed someone who was a real person to talk to and someone who understood. I can't tell you how many times we stepped into the conversation about the abrupt start to our friendship and how she confided in me that after I left, she cried and cried thinking that "it" was all I was after and once I said along with her that we'd be friends, our walls have kind of come down.

 

Hope all that makes sense?

 

Meanwhile, I ended up out of my stupid big heart buying her ticket.... sheesh, I'm a weakling. No, call it compasion. I get her telling me she doesn't want my pity....I keep telling her that she has helped me to understand and sort things out.

 

I'll be out of town till the 23rd..... I'm also going to stay with my parents other than a number of days spent baking on the beach. I have to be VERY careful with my meds not to burn....

 

My brother, well let me just say he is being NASTY about the whole thing, I'm not supposed to have a friend that is female... Why is everyone seemingly not wanting me to have a friendship with a female rather than a male.... My male friends DON'T understand, perhaps I'm too much a softie for them to understand and I certainly couldn't cry to them, they are cold like the hell with your wife, etc....but they don't understand I can't be so cold even though it is over. My brother is like YOU'LL regret even being friends, I know....You'll get yourself into hot water if she gets a good lawyer and has you tracked, bla bla bla.....see how I get so confused Vivian?

 

Like all you guys said, I need to make decisions myself which I'm trying to do.

 

bob

[VivianLee]

Let us know how you are doing and if you got the rest you needed!!

[Poconobob]

Well, the least of which I gotta say Florida was nice weather.....As for the trip well, I became sort of a makeshift nurse off and on. She ended up in the ER day or should I say 3a.m. the next morning and was in for several days with low, low Potassium, and elevated Amonia levels due in part to dehydration from the flight combined with the former throwing up constantly from the flu. After that, I spent time out, she ended up sleeping quite a bit...

 

However, I did get her eventually down to Cape Coral to see her old friends, and uncle....and I spent time with my family. Man, I now see why I live in Pa and my parents down in Florida. Sheesh, NUFF said....bla bla bla on what I need to do about Cathy. They think I'm going to end up with nothing, that Cathy is devious......etc. I KNOW for a .... well, I won't go so far as to say a fact....but I'm confident that Cathy and I will work out the sale of the home, subsequent divorce as fairly as one can be and without fighting, HECK we owe that to one another to end things on a good note.

 

With Sandy, I got to know her REAL well.......NO not what you may be thinking, actually we had double beds, we OFTEN talked and talked and talked....and with her not feeling well, she was grouchy off and on and we came out of it all close friends who have learned some deep dark secrets about our pastS. Most all good, things like how her EX husband threatens and accuses her of messing with me or should I say around with me. The guy is engaged to be married.... I don't say a word, it isn't my place.....and until my divorce I'm not.

 

Tonight when I said goodnight, I got a big ole fashion hug, a kiss on the neck as she is so short, and a thank you as she said she has "found herself" again, WHATEVER THAT MEANS.

 

Well, I gotta go see how bad the Visa bill will be for the trip and then go pay it online......that and about 10 bill s......the reality of coming home, ain't it friggen great.

 

I have a story to tell......one which involved ......

bla bla

 

I'm too tired, I'll remember

 

nighty night

 

bob

[VivianLee]

Bob, I'm glad y'all made it back safe and sound!!

 

I'm sorry Sandy was so/is so sick...is she continuously sick like that? All the time, I guess it's due to her liver problem.

 

I understand about being around family!! A distance definitely makes the heart grow fonder!!

 

Take care!

[Poconobob]

I picked up DIVORCE papers today....she told me about them and has a lawyer finally BUT, in it is sued for alimony, child support, custody, and ANYTHING else you could imagine. She said it is because she reserves the right to do so in the event I do something to her....and once it is done, she swears she isn't after alimony, etc....BUT, according to people I spoke with, that reserves the right will include ANYTIME up until she remarries....

 

I thought we'd be able to work it out as adults but obviously she is on a different playing field so let the games begin I guess.

 

All I wanted was to divorce, split up everything, and go our separate ways....

 

News at 11 so to speak....

 

bob

[VivianLee]

Bob,

 

You may want to start a thread on the Separation and Divorce area of the forum, you can link this thread so people can get a history of what is going on......

 

I wonder what made her decide to proceed??

 

Take care!

Viv

[pedwin]

Bob,

You have been through so much. I hope now you can begin the healing process. I haven't read anything recent because it still hurts my eyes to stay on long at a time. They still can't find the problem!!! DOCTORS, GOTTA LOVE EM!!!

BEST WISHES AND BIG HUGS

Pedwin

[Poconobob]

Pedwin......doctors...tell me about it!

 

They're a mess....guess that is why they "practice" medicine.....Just kidding. Thanks for the kind words, they are appreciated.

 

Vivian,

 

Gimme a link and I'll start one. I'm dealing with it all quite well except for making Cathy puke from being pissed off when I read it and everything she had said she wouldn't do is in there for me to be sued for arggggggggg. I am hiring a atty that is supposed to be the best in the state so we'll see.

 

Once again, the HURT is still there, I soooooooo much would love for a magic wand to swoop and fix this mess but reality is NO it isn't gonna be fixed, I am getting divorced, I don't wanna go on, I want my personal life to be able to foster a possible relationship.

Speaking of which, Sandy went into the hospital when we hit florida, she was dehydrated, potassium low, low...and amonia high. Evidently from talking to the doc, her liver and the meds to help cure the problem weren't right. The doctors up here SUCK....but the silver lining was, she spent 3 days in the hospital, she is better now, and I'm forever thankful I took her with me......had we gone on separate flights, she would have been really bad off. I took her then down to her friends house later in the week and I went to my doctor, I have yet another med change....I'm now on Abilify which causes no weight gain supposedly...we'll see. So anyway, we also found out that her liver ISN'T damaged beyond repair, more like she needs to take a series of shots, then eat a special diet, and all will be normal again.

 

Hmmm, time for work.....YUCK, it is bad doing sales outside when it is cold, yep cold as in mid 30's here and flurries today.

 

Did I mention I'll be hitting the big 4--0......next week? Dat will be fun.. I don't feel like 40 though more like 80....ha ha, just kidding, more like 25 or so.

 

As for Sandy and I.... we're close, real close......we must have just stayed in bed (separate) and I have pics to prove it...lol......seriously though we talked and talked and talked and talked.....cried, laughed and shopped until we fell out.

 

OMG, you otta see what the hurricanes did.....WOW

 

More later....

 

Gotta run to the dealership to earn a living....or at least try, ha ha.....

 

See, I am in good humor at least. Oops, better go brush my teeth, cant have skank teeth......

 

bob

[VivianLee]

Hey Bob,

 

Here's the link on Love Shack concerning Separation and Divorce.

 

Separation and Divorce Forum

 

You can still post here but I just thought that it would help to have several people to talk to that have been or are going through divorce!

 

I'm so sorry it came to this. Many of us on here were cheering you on hoping things would work out between you. I know you hurt and wish you could just turn back time.

 

Did you ever find out what made her proceed with the divorce after saying she wouldn't leave or proceed till July??

 

Watch your back concerning her divorce demands. Don't think that giving into unnecessary demands will make her come back to you and although as her husband and protector (to a point) it's no longer your place to see that her needs (financial or whatever) are met anymore. She turned her back on the marriage and you, so she is the one causing this to come to an end, not you. I'm sure your attorney will give you the advice you need.

 

I'm glad about the meds! I hope this will work for you! Right now as things are so tedious, try not to have them changed and such unless they are killing you mentally or physically.

 

I'm also excited about Sandy's prognosis!! That is just wonderful!! I know you are happy and relieved!!

 

I've seen pictures of the devastation of Florida but I imagine seeing it in person is much more amazing! Did your family and friends substain any damage??

 

Hang in there Bob, you tried that's all you could do. As hard as it can be to take, the marriage is over. I know it saddens you to no end due to the fact that y'all were together for so long, share memories and a child. Hopefully the divorce won't be so messy so you can look back on those almost 20 years of your life and try and remember the good times. You will need constant counseling and so will your son. Don't dare let him be a pawn to use in this divorce, no matter how hurt or angry you get!!

 

You need to surround yourself with a support group of sorts. Friends and even a church group can make this just a bit better.

 

You are turning 40 at a troublesome time in your life BUT try and look at this as a new beginning. You had a good time for the most part till the accident. You are healing inside and out, you are still considered VERY young, you are successful with your job (and climbing), your son loves you and is the carrier of your family name. Think of turning 40 as completely being reborn. You have a whole new life to live (and you didn't have to go through a mid-life crisis to attain it! )

 

You've been through a lot over the past few years (with the accident and meds) but you survived. You can survive this.

 

Take care, I'm thinking of you and praying for you! God Bless!

 

Viv