MM blame and victimization

[20Seconds]

I have another thread about having yet another D day, that explains what happened in my situation.

 

So MM has been told he has to move out. And apparently he has not been able to see his kids since everything went down. MM places ALL blame on me. I got his kids taken away, I'm ruining his life because of it, It's all MY fault. He plays the role of such a victim it's ridiculous. Is this a normal or common reaction?

 

If he had told his W he wanted to leave after the first d-day and then got on and done it, he probably wouldn;t be where he is now. He would be living separately, getting a divorce and working with the BS on making the transition as painless for his children as possible.

 

But he didn't, he told the BS he would work on their marriage, while still seeing you behind her back.

 

It is your MM's behaviour and handling of the situation which is causing the BS to react in this way. She has had enough, and who can blame her?

 

Throw blame, hate and bitterness around as much as you like between the adults involved, you are grown ups and you'll all get over it, whatever the outcome.

 

He only gets one chance to make this work for his children, whether he stays or leaves, and he's wrecking it.

 

His choice.

[bentnotbroken]

If this had been posted on the infidelity board to a BS who had been urged to "throw out his cheating azz" the poster would have been flayed alive.

 

 

I have read many times where a BS has been told throw the cheating WS out. So much so threads have been closed. Vanhandle's threads are a great example.

[Elizabeth Southerns]

I have read many times where a BS has been told throw the cheating WS out. So much so threads have been closed. Vanhandle's threads are a great example.

 

That is my point. A BS is often told to throw the "cheating WS" out. If the comment I quoted above had been posted in response, telling the BS he or she had no right to throw their WS out, that poster would have been demolished.

Edited September 17, 2011 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Cabin]

The best indicator of future behavior is past behavior.

 

AND

 

How he speaks and treats and blames his spouse or his xgf, is how he will treat and speak of and blame you one day.

 

This doesn't sit well with me at all. If either of those statements were true, then all of our future choices and ways of interacting in the world would be tethered to our past mistakes. I don't buy it.

 

I'm not saying that some people don't stay in an unproductive cycle of being the same stagnant flawed individual, doomed to repeat their own mistakes and shortcomings... but most reflective people are always learning and growing and evolving.

 

If I look at my own past, there are many decisions and events that I am not proud of... but it is because I experienced them that I know I will NEVER repeat them.

 

If our futures are shackled to our pasts, no one would ever strive to be better. How bleak an outlook that is.

[MissBee]

Jessica,

 

I've read stories where the MM blames the OW after a D-day and I've read others where they don't. In my case there was never a D-day so I don't have personal experience.

 

I do know enough about people though to know that it doesn't matter what any other MM has done or not done. Anyone that is incapable of owing their mistakes will never learn from them and grow. If they can't learn from their mistakes, their behavior is less likely to change.

 

It is evident that he puts himself first. A certain amount of that is healthy but when it involves damaging other people, it's very unhealthy. He did it to his W, and now he's doing it to you. He's emotionally stunted. Regardless if this is a pattern with MM or not, it's not good for you and you should avoid him for your own mental and emotional health. If you start feeling sorry for him (for the results of his own actions) then you're going to be more likely to be pulled back into the mess in some shape or form.

 

Great advice as usual. I agree!

[Silly_Girl]

This is still evidenced in past behaviors so what you're saying and what she's saying still hold true. They compliment each other...they don't contradict.

 

Cabin is saying SOME people, for whatever reason, don't learn and don't evolve, but that it's not the case with everyone, across the board. I think many do. But if you listen here for a while it's easy to believe MM never can/do, they're leopards who are destined to remain liars and cheats, but fOW grow and evolve at a rate of knots and become strong, intelligent, empowered people post-affair. Tongue slightly in cheek, but just slightly.

[Jessica232]

Great post.

 

Also, Jessica, she can't THROW him out; it is his home too. She can ask him to leave and he can tell her to pound sand. She can't change the locks on him and she can't bar him from the marital home without court intervention.

 

He is blaming you, wanting you to feel bad for him and offer to take him in. To be the option instead of the priority.

 

Hopefully, you ignore his calls and let him deal with his mess on his own like a grown up.

 

Sure, he doesn't have to leave, but if he doesn't, she will. And she'll take the kids out of their home, which isn't the answer.

[bentnotbroken]

That is my point. A BS is often told to throw the "cheating WS" out. If the comment I quoted above had been posted in response, telling the BS he or she had no right to throw their WS out, that poster would have been demolished.

 

 

As Glinda said the legalities. But then there is always an exception to a rule. Some of us just make it more of an advantage to leave than to stay.

[jwi71]

Sure, he doesn't have to leave, but if he doesn't, she will. And she'll take the kids out of their home, which isn't the answer.

 

So what.

Why should you care?

 

Why are you even wasting your time and energy on this?

 

His W had enough of his A and she has kicked him out (figuratively speaking).

 

Its HIS drama not yours. Drop it. Move on with your life and let him face the consequences.

 

Hard to see where the future is if you are always looking over your shoulder into the past. Well, he IS the past right? Or are you seeing hope for a future with him here?

[Jessica232]

So what.

Why should you care?

 

Why are you even wasting your time and energy on this?

 

His W had enough of his A and she has kicked him out (figuratively speaking).

 

Its HIS drama not yours. Drop it. Move on with your life and let him face the consequences.

 

Hard to see where the future is if you are always looking over your shoulder into the past. Well, he IS the past right? Or are you seeing hope for a future with him here?

 

I care because I LOVE him. That doesn't just go away, regardless of how much of an *ss he's been. Do I think there's a future? Doubtful, but I'm not closing the door on him. He has since apologized for his behavior, and the things that he said. We have had some very good deep conversations since then. He has asked me what I want, and my reply was, I don't know, you have a lot of **** to straighten out, I can't answer that right now. No matter what happens, nothing is going to be good for a long while. We both know we love each other, but right now I'm taking a big step backwards and giving us both some much needed space.

[wannabdone]

I care because I LOVE him. That doesn't just go away, regardless of how much of an *ss he's been. Do I think there's a future? Doubtful, but I'm not closing the door on him. He has since apologized for his behavior, and the things that he said. We have had some very good deep conversations since then. He has asked me what I want, and my reply was, I don't know, you have a lot of **** to straighten out, I can't answer that right now. No matter what happens, nothing is going to be good for a long while. We both know we love each other, but right now I'm taking a big step backwards and giving us both some much needed space.

 

 

Jess... I thnk that is wise. space! Remember.... set realistic expectations and goals for what you know you can handle. If you set up a goal that you know you can't obtain...you are setting yourself up for failure and staying in this longer.

 

If you set a goal of space, stick to that goal. Once you have conquered it, you will feel stronger and more empowered. Then you can march on to the next goal. Remember Rome wasn't built in a day. This R didn't start over night. Everyone's processes are different. Just make sure you are changing things, and not staying "as is".

[MissBee]

I care because I LOVE him. That doesn't just go away, regardless of how much of an *ss he's been. Do I think there's a future? Doubtful, but I'm not closing the door on him. He has since apologized for his behavior, and the things that he said. We have had some very good deep conversations since then. He has asked me what I want, and my reply was, I don't know, you have a lot of **** to straighten out, I can't answer that right now. No matter what happens, nothing is going to be good for a long while. We both know we love each other, but right now I'm taking a big step backwards and giving us both some much needed space.

 

Ahmmm...good luck to you Jessica.

 

Apologizing for one's bad behavior doesn't mean anything really. My ex apologized a million times over and continued the bad behavior. An apology was just his way of saying "Yea...yea...let me hurry and say sorry so that I can continue to get what I want"...so I really wouldn't have amnesia now of all the things he's done just because he said sorry.

 

Having deep conversations also don't mean anything...my ex and I had many "deep convos" after his bullshyt and nothing changed either. People are notorious for having these lengthy deep convos every week and still staying in their bad relationship. A friend of mine, for the last 5 years, about ever couple weeks her and her boyfriend get into it and she is crying and realizing for the literal 80,000th time that he is a jerk, then by tomorrow "they had a conversation, he's sorry" Spare me...because of course next week, same thing.

 

Loving someone and loving yourself and respecting yourself should go hand in hand. Accepting bad behavior and having amnesia on account of love usually doesn't turn out well.....soo again, good luck to you, because somehow it doesn't seem rosy for you two, especially not you.

[alexandria35]

I have another thread about having yet another D day, that explains what happened in my situation.

 

So MM has been told he has to move out. And apparently he has not been able to see his kids since everything went down. MM places ALL blame on me. I got his kids taken away, I'm ruining his life because of it, It's all MY fault. He plays the role of such a victim it's ridiculous. Is this a normal or common reaction?

 

I don't get it. If he hasn't even moved out yet, then how is it that he hasn't seen his kids? Are they in hiding or something?

[Jessica232]

Ahmmm...good luck to you Jessica.

 

Apologizing for one's bad behavior doesn't mean anything really. My ex apologized a million times over and continued the bad behavior. An apology was just his way of saying "Yea...yea...let me hurry and say sorry so that I can continue to get what I want"...so I really wouldn't have amnesia now of all the things he's done just because he said sorry.

 

Having deep conversations also don't mean anything...my ex and I had many "deep convos" after his bullshyt and nothing changed either. People are notorious for having these lengthy deep convos every week and still staying in their bad relationship. A friend of mine, for the last 5 years, about ever couple weeks her and her boyfriend get into it and she is crying and realizing for the literal 80,000th time that he is a jerk, then by tomorrow "they had a conversation, he's sorry" Spare me...because of course next week, same thing.

 

Loving someone and loving yourself and respecting yourself should go hand in hand. Accepting bad behavior and having amnesia on account of love usually doesn't turn out well.....soo again, good luck to you, because somehow it doesn't seem rosy for you two, especially not you.

 

Well, he's willing to forgive me threatening to tell her, telling him I was texting her at that moment and telling her, so I think I may be able to forgive him saying he holds me responsible. Is his bad behavior for holding me responsible when I threatened him worse??

[Jessica232]

I don't get it. If he hasn't even moved out yet, then how is it that he hasn't seen his kids? Are they in hiding or something?

 

He has moved out. And for the days prior to that, she sent the kids away to stay with a friend, so he couldn't see them.

[Jessica232]

Ahhhh Jessica I say this with kindness but the place you are putting yourself in right now is not that much different than where you were.

 

He can say he is sorry till the cows come home but it means nothing. By telling him you don't know what you want, you've left the door open for him to trample all over your heart again. I'm sorry but you are kidding yourself to think that you are taking a big step back. You aren't hon. It's the same ****, just spun a different way.

 

 

So, by dating others, and telling him I'm not sure where we're going, not sure what I want, after he did the things he did and said the things he said, is allowing him to trample over me?? He's aware I'm dating. I think that's much better than saying, I'm here, when you figure out what YOU want?!

[PhoenixRise]

He has moved out. And for the days prior to that, she sent the kids away to stay with a friend, so he couldn't see them.

 

Sounds like she was trying to get them out of the house so they wouldn't have to deal with living in ground zero of the wreckage of their parent's marriage.

 

Jessica

 

You will do what you want but what you are doing is not likely to get you what you want.

 

The man asked you what you want and you said "I don't know". BS (not betrayed spouse).

 

You know exactly what you want. You know exactly what kind of relationship you want and you know what you want from him.

 

Maybe the problem is that deep down you are afraid to admit to yourself that you know he will never be able to give you what you want. If you say it out loud, really describe to him the kind of man and the kind of relationship you want do you think he would recognize himself as a person who could be the kind of man you are describing and who could give you the kind of relationship you want?

 

Is it possible that if you said out loud what you want..what you really want then you would have to admit to yourself that what you want and the reality of what he is are so far apart there is no way to reconcile the two.

 

Maybe it is just easier to pretend you don't know what you want and leave the door open than it is to admit that in spite of the fact that you love him, he will never be the kind of man you want.

 

What ever you decide to do in the future, don't cop out on yourself. If you can't find the courage to ask for what you want there is no way in hell you will ever get it. Not from this man. Not from anybody.

 

Good Luck

[whichwayisup]

He has moved out. And for the days prior to that, she sent the kids away to stay with a friend, so he couldn't see them.

 

how do you know this? Because HE told you?? So basically you're saying she's screwing him over, hiding the kids from him.. Don't you think it's atleast possible she asked a friend to take the kids so they wouldn't be exposed to what's been going on? To give her a break, to be alone and grieve or get mad, etc..without having the children around to see and hear all that's going on?

 

Anyway, you're TOO invested in this, it isn't your marriage, how they handle it really isn't your concern. Even more so since (I think) you're waiting to see how this places out and if he begs you to take him back, you will.

[bentnotbroken]

He has moved out. And for the days prior to that, she sent the kids away to stay with a friend, so he couldn't see them.

 

 

Did you ask her if that is the case? Or did you just take his word for it?

Edited September 18, 2011 by bentnotbroken

[Jessica232]

Sounds like she was trying to get them out of the house so they wouldn't have to deal with living in ground zero of the wreckage of their parent's marriage.

 

Jessica

 

You will do what you want but what you are doing is not likely to get you what you want.

 

The man asked you what you want and you said "I don't know". BS (not betrayed spouse).

 

You know exactly what you want. You know exactly what kind of relationship you want and you know what you want from him.

Maybe the problem is that deep down you are afraid to admit to yourself that you know he will never be able to give you what you want. If you say it out loud, really describe to him the kind of man and the kind of relationship you want do you think he would recognize himself as a person who could be the kind of man you are describing and who could give you the kind of relationship you want?

 

Is it possible that if you said out loud what you want..what you really want then you would have to admit to yourself that what you want and the reality of what he is are so far apart there is no way to reconcile the two.

 

Maybe it is just easier to pretend you don't know what you want and leave the door open than it is to admit that in spite of the fact that you love him, he will never be the kind of man you want.

 

What ever you decide to do in the future, don't cop out on yourself. If you can't find the courage to ask for what you want there is no way in hell you will ever get it. Not from this man. Not from anybody.

 

Good Luck

 

Maybe I know how to play the game. He knows, I ALWAYS get what I want. So maybe, just maybe, I'm ahead of the game. As usual. I'm a VERY smart girl. lol. Repeat....I ALWAYS get what I want.

[Jessica232]

how do you know this? Because HE told you?? So basically you're saying she's screwing him over, hiding the kids from him.. Don't you think it's atleast possible she asked a friend to take the kids so they wouldn't be exposed to what's been going on? To give her a break, to be alone and grieve or get mad, etc..without having the children around to see and hear all that's going on?

 

Anyway, you're TOO invested in this, it isn't your marriage, how they handle it really isn't your concern. Even more so since (I think) you're waiting to see how this places out and if he begs you to take him back, you will.

 

 

This is exactly what happened...why is that a problem??

[Jessica232]

He still knows he has some control/power over you because of the BUT clause and the MAYBE I'll be around thing. His translation of what you said to him would go something like this, I'm going to go ahead and date but I don't really want to, but I will because I can't have you. You might lose me, but then again, you might not, but I'm leaving the door open for you, just in case.

 

I've learned the hard way that unless you take the time that you need to really close the door and grieve the ending that you tend to not seek out a healthy relationship, instead you just want someone to help you forget the pain. BTDT and the results were not good.

 

It's your life Jessica and no one can make you do anything, but your mm is manipulative and will keep you around in some form or another as long as you allow it. You are the one that has the power here, but you don't realize it yet.

 

But here's where this falls short...I'm seeing someone who is the director of a large engineering firm. A guy who has asked me to go to Italy, who can take me to Napa or NYC on a whim, as he's proven, and MM can't hold a candle to this. I can manipulate much more than MM can.

[Jessica232]

Did you ask her if that is the case? Or did you just take his word for it?

 

 

I know it for a fact! In fact, he's at his parent's tonight, telling them the news.

[whichwayisup]

This is exactly what happened...why is that a problem??

 

And for the days prior to that, she sent the kids away to stay with a friend, so he couldn't see them.

 

Because you made it sound like she sent the kids away on purpose so he couldn't have access to them. Maybe I read it the wrong way or something, but it was the way it was posted.

 

It isn't a problem at all, she did the right thing, yet there was something the way you posted it, like he told you she won't let me see the kids, kind of deal.. That's all.

[PhoenixRise]

Maybe I know how to play the game. He knows, I ALWAYS get what I want. So maybe, just maybe, I'm ahead of the game. As usual. I'm a VERY smart girl. lol. Repeat....I ALWAYS get what I want.

 

 

Yeah....you missed my point. That's ok though. Since you always get what you want lets just hope you also get something you can be happy with.

 

 

I really hope you are just being defensive right now and that you don't really see this as a game that you are playing.