"Men Don't Know What They Want"

[verhrzn]

And we're back to this point again.

 

You seem to have very rigid views on what constitutes a date, what is being asked out and what they are not. All this is playing into your belief that you are undesirable. Because you tell yourself, "oh that wasn't a date because X happened or didn't happen, so I haven't been on a date in a year, I have no options."

 

No, it's not that they didn't pursue her further, it's that she stopped responding to them and disappeared.

 

Yeah, we're back to this point, because it seems to be crucial... You seem to think a date is any time two single people go somewhere together, and in my experience, that's a ridiculous way to define something as a date.

 

Fact: these guys didn't pay for anything (I paid for myself, occasionally even paid for them since they drove or something), didn't contact me between "outings," didn't say ANYTHING to indicate they were interested ("Hey I'd like to take you on a date," for example or "I am interested in getting to know you romantically") AND didn't make a single move physically (not even to put their arm around me or touch my arm or something.)

 

On what PLANET is that a date? And when it happens three or four times? Why the hell WOULDN'T I disappear, since these guys are either just looking for a friendship, or jerking me around.

[aj22one]

Yeah, we're back to this point, because it seems to be crucial... You seem to think a date is any time two single people go somewhere together, and in my experience, that's a ridiculous way to define something as a date.

 

Fact: these guys didn't pay for anything (I paid for myself, occasionally even paid for them since they drove or something), didn't contact me between "outings," didn't say ANYTHING to indicate they were interested ("Hey I'd like to take you on a date," for example or "I am interested in getting to know you romantically") AND didn't make a single move physically (not even to put their arm around me or touch my arm or something.)

 

On what PLANET is that a date? And when it happens three or four times? Why the hell WOULDN'T I disappear, since these guys are either just looking for a friendship, or jerking me around.

 

These men are either chronically shy, or you've developed a habit of meeting very strange men (consciously or subconsciously).

[ThsAmericanLife]

I feel like I'm the only one who remotely GRASPS that the OP is RESORTING TO A FWB.

 

THAT EVEN PRIOR TO THE FWB SHE HASN'T BEEN ASKED OUT ON REAL AND PLENTIFUL DATES ---

 

I.E

 

THE FWB IS NOT WHY SHE IS NOT GETTING DATES!!!

 

And of the COUPLE of the very CONFUSING "outings" she went on --- THE GUYS didn't KNOW she had a FWB --- hence, they didn't JUDGE her about what they didn't know... HENCE... it's NOT 'CAUSE OF THE FWB they didn't want to pursue her further.

 

OTHER GUYS DON'T KNOW IF SHE HAS A FWB BEFORE PURSUING HER EITHER. WHY AREN'T THEY AT LEAST MAKING EFFORT TO FIND OUT?

 

Yes she could continue waiting around by her lonesome... but something else needs to be done in the meantime, if she's going to find a respectable man to have a relationship with... and it may need to be about her working on her self-perception. Maybe she just needs to get angry at what most men seem to want and say screw them for awhile, they don't deserve me and then pamper herself and love herself instead.

 

It's easy to tell someone "just deal with it and work on yourself"... but when someone is actually in the throes of loneliness / faced with their romantic solitude etc, that's a whole 'nother story.

 

verhrzn - many men like "feminine". I think I read somewhere in the back that you stated you're not really domestic etc (some men don't care about that though too). Regardless, it's at least intoxicating to some of them. It may be worth working on, if you don't mind striving to attract men for the sake of attracting more of them.

 

(by the way, I had one too many glasses of wine so I'm not taking responsibility for any errors / retardation I may have blathered).

 

I disagree. You might be surprised at what people 'know' when they meet someone. It takes me very little time to figure out that a man has a FWB. Two dates max. I've gone past that point just to check my intuition and I've never been wrong.

 

Others have said the same. You give out a different vibe. Sorry. Ya just do.

 

... and she HAS gotten dates. She's FZ'd ones who don't jump her bones immediately. She's rejecting someone right here that seems to fit all of her criteria...

 

her whole thread seems like one big long whine-fest combined with justifications on why she should get sex while dating other men. We've called it for what it is.

[verhrzn]

These men are either chronically shy, or you've developed a habit of meeting very strange men (consciously or subconsciously).

 

Or there aren't a lot of guys out there interested in "relationships" until they meet some amazing perfect girl, which I can guarantee ain't me for 95% of the male population. Why is that so difficult to believe?

 

The same thing has been happening to me online. I message a guy, he responds back two weeks later, I reply, again another two weeks before a response, and usually some excuse about why they don't want to meet up for a while... And yet they're replying back to me, sometimes even sending up a follow up message if I give up. There was even one guy who I was messaging back and forth who didn't reply for 3 months (I'd given up) with a "Hmm, why did I stop contacting you? Oh well, how ya been?"

 

Maybe I'm just the type of girl guys don't want to date, which is WHY I resorted to an FWB.

[aj22one]

I disagree. You might be surprised at what people 'know' when they meet someone. It takes me very little time to figure out that a man has a FWB. Two dates max. I've gone past that point just to check my intuition and I've never been wrong.

 

Others have said the same. You give out a different vibe. Sorry. Ya just do.

 

... and she HAS gotten dates. She's FZ'd ones who don't jump her bones immediately. She's rejecting someone right here that seems to fit all of her criteria...

 

her whole thread seems like one big long whine-fest combined with justifications on why she should get sex while dating other men. We've called it for what it is.

 

I actually see it in a different, albeit no less egregious way. She wants a relationship but also feels lonely, has sexual/physical "needs" etc. She thinks if she only focuses on getting a relationship there's a risk that it will never happen. So, to hedge her bets she has the FWB.

 

The way I see it though, you don't get to hedge bets in life. You pays your money and you takes your choice. If you want a relationship, try to get one of those. If you want a FWB do that. If you just don't care, then don't care. But don't hedge your bets and get mad when things don't work out exactly as you wish.

[Nexus One]

Having read all these justifications from women has me thinking my response to women who are already involved with another man is the right one. I.e. just leave and going NC. "I'll leave it at this then, have a nice day.", I stay polite and there's no control involved like some of you women claimed.

 

Women like you would only tramp on my heart. I couldn't even start to begin building a connection with you during dating. How am I supposed to mentally block out the knowledge that you're f*cking another guy while you're trying to build a connection with me for a committed relationship?

 

Oh wait, you wouldn't tell me. You'd obscure it. Lie about it through omission.

I'd feel I'd have wasted my time with a woman that lied from the get-go. I'd be pretty devastated over it if it came to the point where I'd be in a relationship or married and then to find out she was f*cking other men when we met and while we were building something together during dating.

 

Apart from it being unethical, it is such an unromantic idea.

 

Every time I have to explain why it is wrong what some of you women find to be normal I get reminded I have to be vigilant. I'd love to be able to trust a woman immediately, but alas, some of you women are ruining for your entire gender just like some guys are ruining it for theirs when they pull similar sh*t.

 

I couldn't even have a relationship with such a woman to begin with, we'd be too different. I get up in arms when someone justifies doing harm to others or has the intention to do so. We'd argue all the time. Our ethical frameworks would be too different. I know such women, they're like venomous snakes, they hurt a lot of people, including the people closest to them, not just through sh*t like we're discussing here, but with sh*t worse than this.

 

And the reason those women can hurt people so close to them is because they are able to justify hurting someone in the first place.

 

That attitude, i.e. being able to justify this sh*t, it tends to extend into other aspects of a person's personality too. I do not want to be at the receiving end of such a person.

Edited September 21, 2011 by Nexus One

[ThsAmericanLife]

I actually see it in a different, albeit no less egregious way. She wants a relationship but also feels lonely, has sexual/physical "needs" etc. She thinks if she only focuses on getting a relationship there's a risk that it will never happen. So, to hedge her bets she has the FWB.

 

The way I see it though, you don't get to hedge bets in life. You pays your money and you takes your choice. If you want a relationship, try to get one of those. If you want a FWB do that. If you just don't care, then don't care. But don't hedge your bets and get mad when things don't work out exactly as you wish.

 

Well said. Thank you.

 

What bugs me is that there are other 'lonely' people here who have had success dealing with their loneliness at various points in their lives to find good relationships and she doesn't want to hear them.

 

It is frustrating to see someone shoot themselves in the foot for no reason. Or claim that we have some mystical power to attract people of the opposite sex and therefore, our experiences aren't valid somehow. Yea, ok. Some do (have mystical powers). Most don't though. Everyone has to work at it.

[ThsAmericanLife]

Every time I have to explain why it is wrong what some of you women find to be normal I get reminded I have to be vigilant.

 

I hope you are vigilant. One of my biggest frustrations when I was doing OLD was men who were multi-dating and had FWB... ultimately I gave it up because it seemed those were the majority of men there. I'd tell them up front that I'm not seeing other men... that when I agree to meet someone it is because I want to get to know them. But so many of them didn't believe me and just kept doing their multi-dating/FWB deal. Which was unfortunate. It was especially sad if I really liked the guy.

 

It was starting to make me bitter about men, and I didn't want that.

 

I'm glad to hear that younger men like you are not part of the hookup culture and have clear expectations.

 

As they say... BE the change you want to see in the world.

[verhrzn]

Well said. Thank you.

 

What bugs me is that there are other 'lonely' people here who have had success dealing with their loneliness at various points in their lives to find good relationships and she doesn't want to hear them.

 

It is frustrating to see someone shoot themselves in the foot for no reason. Or claim that we have some mystical power to attract people of the opposite sex and therefore, our experiences aren't valid somehow. Yea, ok. Some do (have mystical powers). Most don't though. Everyone has to work at it.

 

I'm not trying to claim you have some 'mystical' powers; all I'm saying is that you have different (possibly more positive) experiences than me. You have a belief that you are attractive based on your experiences; my experiences suggest that I am not. Some people are attractive, some are not, even WITH work.

 

As far as there being other lonely people who have success dealing with it, hurray for them. Some people can climb Everest. We all have talents and abilities that are unique. You've said you deal with your loneliness through hobbies and friends. I've TRIED that, and it didn't work for me. Why do you continue to insist that something that works for you MUST work for me?

[Nexus One]

You have a belief that you are attractive based on your experiences; my experiences suggest that I am not. Some people are attractive, some are not, even WITH work.

 

 

That still doesn't justify it.

 

 

As far as there being other lonely people who have success dealing with it, hurray for them. Some people can climb Everest. We all have talents and abilities that are unique. You've said you deal with your loneliness through hobbies and friends. I've TRIED that, and it didn't work for me.

 

And again, that still doesn't justify it. You're only looking at it from your own perspective, i.e. "what are MY needs", ethics be damned right?

[verhrzn]

That still doesn't justify it.

 

And again, that still doesn't justify it. You're only looking at it from your own perspective, i.e. "what are MY needs", ethics be damned right?

 

You keep harping on ethics, the "ethics" of being "loyal and respectful" to the person I'm dating.

 

Except I'm not dating anyone. Why am I taking into account the "needs" of someone who is practically a stranger??

 

How many times do I have to ask what in the world you constitute as "dating"? Because it seems like you lump "dating" and "committed relationship" (in my understanding of them) into the same thing... like, as soon as I sit down for coffee with a guy, I better be prepared to be celibate and loyal/exclusive ONLY to him, which I what I call a "committed relationship."

 

A relationship, to me, is when you are sexually exclusive to only that person, and when you take their needs into account, when they've agreed to date just each other.

 

You say that what I'm doing is egotistic, focusing on just my needs, lacking in "ethics."

 

But isn't someone demanding (withdrawing their offer to get to know me is another form of demanding) I be celibate because it'd make THEM uncomfortable, even though it's satisfying my needs and they haven't even agreed to be committed to me, being egotistical as well? Because they're not taking MY needs into account, they're focusing exclusively on THEIRS (the need for the person they're "dating" to be sexually exclusive only to them.)

 

And what happened to the value of empathy? Of seeing where the other person is coming from? Of trying to understand a different view point?

[somedude81]

Yeah, we're back to this point, because it seems to be crucial... You seem to think a date is any time two single people go somewhere together, and in my experience, that's a ridiculous way to define something as a date.

 

Fact: these guys didn't pay for anything (I paid for myself, occasionally even paid for them since they drove or something), didn't contact me between "outings," didn't say ANYTHING to indicate they were interested ("Hey I'd like to take you on a date," for example or "I am interested in getting to know you romantically") AND didn't make a single move physically (not even to put their arm around me or touch my arm or something.)

 

On what PLANET is that a date? And when it happens three or four times? Why the hell WOULDN'T I disappear, since these guys are either just looking for a friendship, or jerking me around.

 

These men are either chronically shy, or you've developed a habit of meeting very strange men (consciously or subconsciously).

That is what happens when you are interested in shy, awkward men.

 

We're not Casanova's, especially not the ones that are relationship minded.

[Nexus One]

You keep harping on ethics, the "ethics" of being "loyal and respectful" to the person I'm dating.

 

Except I'm not dating anyone. Why am I taking into account the "needs" of someone who is practically a stranger??

 

It doesn't matter whether you are dating someone right now or not.

 

a) You have the intention to pull this sh*t.

b) You justify this sh*t.

 

How many times do I have to ask what in the world you constitute as "dating"?

 

You make me rehash the same sh*t over and over again. Like I said before, when you sign up to a dating website and meet up with a guy through that dating website, whether it's for just a coffee or a movie, then it's pretty f*cking obvious that it's a date. You act as if there can be any confusion regarding that.

 

That's at least the third time I had to explain that to you. Nothing is coming through is there?

 

You say that what I'm doing is egotistic, focusing on just my needs, lacking in "ethics."

 

But isn't someone demanding (withdrawing their offer to get to know me is another form of demanding) I be celibate because it'd make THEM uncomfortable, even though it's satisfying my needs and they haven't even agreed to be committed to me, being egotistical as well? Because they're not taking MY needs into account, they're focusing exclusively on THEIRS (the need for the person they're "dating" to be sexually exclusive only to them.)

 

 

Oh my God woman! Play that game.

 

When a woman indicates to me she's already involved with another man and I then refrain from dating her or stop dating her, how is that a demand? I don't ask her to do anything before or after I ask that question. And after I have the answer it's complete NC. I'm not asking her to stop being involved with other men, I just leave.

 

So because I don't want to get involved in love triangles I am not "seeing to the needs" of the women who sleep with other men while dating for a relationship?

 

It's so f*cking twisted and skewed that you say I'm not seeing to the needs of women who are already involved with another man, just because I don't date them.

 

No man is obligated to date a woman when she's already involved with another man.

 

And what happened to the value of empathy? Of seeing where the other person is coming from? Of trying to understand a different view point?

 

Again you make me rehash the same sh*t over and over again. I already told you both on the forum and in PM that I can see where you are coming from. That I understand why you do it. And even though I understand you, I still think it's wrong.

 

It's like that robber example I gave. You can understand that someone NEEDS money, but that doesn't justify them robbing someone. The robber has the choice to act ethically and get a job. Just like you have a choice to act ethically and don't sleep with another man when you're dating guys who want a relationship, period!

 

You can't do it, because you cave under your craving for sex. You can't make the ethical decision because of that. And THAT'S why you and women like you try to justify it. Not because you have ethics on your side, but because you can't control or refuse to control your sexual urges in the name of ethics, loyalty, respect and decency.

Edited September 21, 2011 by Nexus One

[verhrzn]

That is what happens when you are interested in shy, awkward men.

 

We're not Casanova's, especially not the ones that are relationship minded.

 

Or... UNINTERESTED. You never answered how to tell the difference between someone who is "shy" by your definition and someone who is uninterested.

 

You wanna know how to avoid the friend-zone? There it is. A person who is interested will act like it. A person who isn't interested, won't act like it.

 

If the person gives you no signals they're interested, walk away; the easy way to avoid getting friend-zoned and jerked around.

[somedude81]

Or... UNINTERESTED. You never answered how to tell the difference between someone who is "shy" by your definition and someone who is uninterested.

I can see from a woman's point of view how a guy being shy might seem like he is uninterested.

 

IMO, him trying to plan events with you is proof that he is interested. Because that is exactly how I work. A guy who is not interested, will not want to hang out unless you two were already established friends.

You wanna know how to avoid the friend-zone? There it is. A person who is interested will act like it. A person who isn't interested, won't act like it.

I'm very aware of that. That is why I need to force myself to be more aggressive when I'm with girls I'm interested in. Because they, like you, don't know I'm actually interested; even though I think I'm being obvious.

 

That is a problem for many awkward guys. I'm sure the guys you've disappeared on have been friendzoned by many girls.

If the person gives you no signals they're interested, walk away; the easy way to avoid getting friend-zoned and jerked around.

There is some doubt on if guys actually friendzone girls or not.

 

The best tip I can give you is: If you are out one-on-one with a new guy and you know he is the awkward type; be a little more aggressive than you usually are.

[verhrzn]

I can see from a woman's point of view how a guy being shy might seem like he is uninterested.

 

IMO, him trying to plan events with you is proof that he is interested. Because that is exactly how I work. A guy who is not interested, will not want to hang out unless you two were already established friends.

I'm very aware of that. That is why I need to force myself to be more aggressive when I'm with girls I'm interested in. Because they, like you, don't know I'm actually interested; even though I think I'm being obvious.

 

That is a problem for many awkward guys. I'm sure the guys you've disappeared on have been friendzoned by many girls.

There is some doubt on if guys actually friendzone girls or not.

 

The best tip I can give you is: If you are out one-on-one with a new guy and you know he is the awkward type; be a little more aggressive than you usually are.

 

Except these guys AREN'T awkward, they mention several times how other girls chase them/throw themselves at him, and I see them being super flirty and outgoing with other girls.

 

The friend zone absolutely exists for girls; I've been friend-zoned many a time. It's why I don't waste my time with guys who don't make it clear they're not interested.

 

And I am NOT going to be aggressive/throw myself at a guy who doesn't even seem to like me. Talk about coming across desperate and needy.

[Queen Zenobia]

Except these guys AREN'T awkward, they mention several times how other girls chase them/throw themselves at him, and I see them being super flirty and outgoing with other girls.

 

The friend zone absolutely exists for girls; I've been friend-zoned many a time. It's why I don't waste my time with guys who don't make it clear they're not interested.

 

And I am NOT going to be aggressive/throw myself at a guy who doesn't even seem to like me. Talk about coming across desperate and needy.

 

Well aside from your example being the more extreme version of going after what one wants, the stock question seems to be: how's that working out for you?

 

I seem to be a "Ms. Johnny Come Lately" to this thread, having missed all the juicier bits, but it seems to me that you are unhappy with not having a relationship. If you want guys to be the aggressor that's fine. But do understand that some "relationship oriented" men will be turned off by your cavalier attitude with regards to FWB. If you're ok with that, and happy with having a FWB situation then by all means carry on. But complaining about it and concluding that "men don't know what they want" is a little off-putting.

[somedude81]

And I am NOT going to be aggressive/throw myself at a guy

Do you truly believe that is what I meant?

 

That there is no middle ground between what you are normally doing and throwing yourself at somebody?

 

Except these guys AREN'T awkward,

So you've never gone out with a guy who was awkward?

[Woggle]

I hope you are vigilant. One of my biggest frustrations when I was doing OLD was men who were multi-dating and had FWB... ultimately I gave it up because it seemed those were the majority of men there. I'd tell them up front that I'm not seeing other men... that when I agree to meet someone it is because I want to get to know them. But so many of them didn't believe me and just kept doing their multi-dating/FWB deal. Which was unfortunate. It was especially sad if I really liked the guy.

 

It was starting to make me bitter about men, and I didn't want that.

 

I'm glad to hear that younger men like you are not part of the hookup culture and have clear expectations.

 

As they say... BE the change you want to see in the world.

 

I am starting to like you more and more. It is really a breath of fresh air when a woman gets where us men are coming from.

[Nexus One]

It really seems I've been getting nowhere with any of the women that justify this.

 

I gave lots of arguments that overrule theirs in terms of ethics, loyalty, respect and decency.

 

But alas, their craving for sex wins, it trumps everything else. Ethics be damned, loyalty be damned, respect be damned and decency be damned.

 

And then I'm not even talking about the romance killer it is.

[Nexus One]

It is really a breath of fresh air when a woman gets where us men are coming from.

 

I had the same feeling when I read that post.

[Sanman]

The title of this thread should be that men know what they want and it is not me. So, I am giving up and sticking to FWB.

 

That is fine. Thread over.

 

However, you clearly don't want to change anything about the way you approach dating. I, personally, find it hard to believe you have these people approaching you for FWB and none are willing to date you.

[ThsAmericanLife]

I've TRIED that, and it didn't work for me. Why do you continue to insist that something that works for you MUST work for me?

 

because you asked for our advice.

 

And most of the time your response is the same.

 

If you want a FWB and sex, then stop b*tching about not being in a relationship. And while you are at it, be upfront with the people you are dating. This is what you are being criticized about. That all you want to do is complain and use your loneliness as justification to not be upfront or care what your potential dates might think or feel.

 

If you want a relationship, then do the actions that someone looking for a relationship does. It isn't that complicated.

 

I have a question for you... at what magical point in your 'getting to know you' process do you tell a guy you have a FWB or that you are already sleeping with someone?

 

I ask because of one cowardly dude who tried to introduce me to his current FWB. He never told me this in advance. It was after dating him for about a month that he filled me in on this little piece of info. That was his way of telling me (and her too, I guess) and letting me know I was 'bumped up' in his dating heirarchy. ( I swear... Somebody SHOOT me if I ever try OLD again... ). Even funnier is that he thought I should feel privileged.

 

Another case where I suspected, but didn't want to jump to conclusions.. and my suspicions turned out to be correct.

[ThsAmericanLife]

I am starting to like you more and more. It is really a breath of fresh air when a woman gets where us men are coming from.

 

Thanks pal...

 

Have to say... it is interesting to see women using some of the same justifications I've been ranting against with some men posters here.

 

See... I'm equal opportunity when it comes to dating and expectations.

 

I'm going to also say, you and Nexus are NOT off the hook though. (you just KNEW there was a catch, huh??)

 

If you really believe that this is how things should be, I think you both (decent men that you are) need to be mentoring the other guys here about making their expectations clear too.. and stop the threads saying 'women this' and 'women that'. The world could use a little less of the stereotyping.

 

It really does work both ways...

[Chicago_Guy]

I'm in my mid twenties (26), and I'm starting to be convinced the reason we keep running into guys who don't want a relationship, or isn't sure what he wants, or only wants friends-with-benefits is because they're so prevalent in our generation. Over the last year, I've gone out on dates only to be told that the guy wasn't sure what he wants, isn't "ready" for a relationship, only wants friends with benefits. Every single one.

 

I'm in an FWB situation right now. A few days ago I told him, calmly, that I 'd prefer he not mention other women he was (I assumed) sleeping with, as I'm not allowed jealousy in an FWB but I would like some boundaries. He responded that there was no one else he was interested in, that he focusing only on me... And that he'd been seriously considering how to bring up the topic of dating again, but was unsure how to broach it, or even how to begin. He has so little experience in relationships, and so many of them ending badly, he really isn't even sure how it should all go.

 

It got me thinking about whether this whole idea of discarding "uncertain" guys, guys who seem to want just rebounds or FWBs, while having some wisdom, is actually based on a misunderstanding of guys my age.

 

The cynical side of me says it's because men are pigs, and just want to use us without the commitment (FWBs) and for the ego rub (guys not over their exes.)

 

But my observations don't necessarily support this. Sure, some men are that way, just as some women really do just want to use a guy for his money, or just to have a ring on her finger and a kid in her lap, irregardless of the actual man she married. My observation, in real life, and reading forums like this, are that men are just as desperate for relationships as women... maybe even more so. Studies demonstrate married men fare far better in life than unmarried men... they're happier, they're healthier, they're wealthier. (Tellingly, married and unmarried women were virtually identical.)

 

So the majority of men want, need, relationships... but they don't know how to get them. They seem paralyzed by fear, by the inability to determine what it is they want precisely, and how to get it. Men are not taught to verbalize their feelings, they are not taught to examine their feelings. The last decade of changing gender roles has opened up more opportunities for women, which I LOVE, but it's also taken away some of the definitions of what it means to be a man, and there's been nothing to replace them.

 

There's a phenomenon in Japan, where young men (and it effects only young men) feel so confused and socially alien from the people around them, that they literally lock themselves in their rooms for years at a time. They paper over their windows, "to shut out the sun." The author tastefully suggests that some of this might have to do with young women's total rejection of men. Young women no longer want to get married... they don't want to lose their economic independence and confirm to rigid gender roles of wife and mother. The men react to this rejection by literally removing themselves from society.

 

Perhaps there is a lesson in that for young American men as well. We see FWBs and rebounds as manipulative tools for men to get sex (and again, for some, they are), but maybe it's a lot less cynical than that, maybe it's that an FWB is easy, and young men don't know how to go from point A (an easy FWB, something safe that is comfortable and familiar) to point B (a committed relationship.)

 

I'm not saying we should let guys off the hook. Women shouldn't sacrifice their want of a serious relationship because men are slow on the uptake. However, maybe it's time to approach these men with a little more understanding, give them a chance, not turn them away as soon as they utter that they're "not sure what they want."

 

I know why we do it... self-protection. Put our heart on a line with a guy who's not sure? It MUST mean he's not into me, it must mean he's a pig and a manipulator. It's a lot easier to brush off a guy who's unsure, but otherwise a genuine, kind-hearted, compatible guy, and move onto the next, then to open your heart and take that risk.

 

Maybe it's a perfect storm of mis-communication. He doesn't want to risk his heart, so he keeps it casual, tries to satisfy his relationship desire without really putting himself on the line. She doesn't want to risk her heart, brushes him off, and moves to the next. But where is this getting us? To forums full of angry young men, and lonely young women.

 

I won't tell anyone to risk your heart on a guy that would just use you for sex. It seems that anything less than a "yes I want a relationship with you" within a short time frame, without any sexual contact of any kind, will be enough to doom your future (and put out a "vibe," apparently) in the same philosophy vein of "He's Just Not That Into You."

 

My FWB is sweet, supportive, respectful and genuine. All my friends tell me to give him a chance. I'm choosing to take a risk, to open up my heart until I can't take it any more. Maybe it'll work, and maybe it'll fail. But I can't bring myself to brush off a guy I am so compatible with because he doesn't have the tools to go from point A to point B just yet.

 

What do you guys think? Has misunderstanding and an absence of relationship tools given us an overly cynical view of our fellow humans? (Especially of guys?)

 

If you are 26, you are in your prime in terms of overall attractiveness in the dating world. You have more power relative to men than you will probably ever have. You claim to want a relationship, yet despite your dating power, you are only in a non-committed FWB "relationship."

 

If you are attractive, yet only end up with men who don't want to settle, it is almost because those are probably the only men you want or are in contact with. There are plenty of men your age who are single and would like to be in a relationship with an attractive woman, so those men are definitely out there, although you might not find them at a bar.