"Men Don't Know What They Want"

[verhrzn]

I think I realize why the OP has such problems with men. Her responses in this thread are very telling. She has a very hard time relating to men as people or empathizing with our experiences and that shows why she can't build a relationship with a man.

 

What in the world are you talking about?? I started this entire thread to TRY to emphasize with men. My whole first post was about how I've always felt I didn't get men, and they were immature, but maybe in fact they were just human and frightened of rejection, and I shouldn't be so judgmental and be gentler with their feelings.

 

So how do you go from that to "she has a hard time relating to men as people or empathizing with our experiences"??

[somedude81]

oh. Ok. now I understand. That is a big age difference for someone in their 20's.

 

I don't know how hold Titania is or how young she is going for. I've argued against large age differences for both genders because of the power imbalance... but I don't want this thread to get (too) sidetracked.

 

Me personally... I've made it part of my dating 'mission' to avoid men who have a habit of dating much younger women. I don't care how hot they think I am... and I won't date much older men. OMG, the whining some of them do when you tell them anything more than 5 yrs is too old. Same ones who won't put more than a year or two older than them in their profile... waaaaaa!!! I hate double standards.

 

Yes, I'm limiting my pool, but so what? Its a dirty job, but someone's gotta do it. Make some men get real, that is.

 

The 24 yr old barista at Starbucks keeps trying to get me to go out with him. Some of my students get crushes on me too. (which is freaking SCARY). I told him I could dress up Mrs. Robinson and he could be The Graduate for Halloween... Too funny.

 

I've got my eye on my colleague though, so not going there with Barista Boy. I think my colleague is upper 30's early 40's. At least I hope he is.

You are wise to be wary of much younger men. Anything they want from you will be purely sexual. Some may also be looking for a mother figure.

 

Though if you're just looking for some fun, a young buck is a good ride

 

Things start to get more difficult for both sexes as they get older. The men who like to date younger women suddenly find that nobody under 50 wants somebody who is 60+

[ThsAmericanLife]

What in the world are you talking about?? I started this entire thread to TRY to emphasize with men. My whole first post was about how I've always felt I didn't get men, and they were immature, but maybe in fact they were just human and frightened of rejection, and I shouldn't be so judgmental and be gentler with their feelings.

 

So how do you go from that to "she has a hard time relating to men as people or empathizing with our experiences"??

 

Woggle's not going to like me after saying this... but it appears he has double standards. His comments on the other thread seem to indicate he's ok with guys just going out and getting sex, but not women.

 

I also don't see Nexus doing much to rein in the predators who popped their head into this thread. Seems to be all about the BS 'gatekeeper' stuff again.

 

I'm still sticking to my earlier advice though. Another poster asked what going for a relationship looks like. It looks like making your life consistent with your goals... whatever they are.

 

If someone wanted to be in an 'open' relationship, then they need to act according to the 'rules' of that subset of people. If you want a so-called legitimate, monogamous relationship, then you need to create the habits and abide by the 'rules' of that group of people... and we've painstakingly told you what those rules look like.

 

That's all. It was your back and forth that seemed confusing to me before.

[ThsAmericanLife]

You are wise to be wary of much younger men. Anything they want from you will be purely sexual. Some may also be looking for a mother figure.

 

Though if you're just looking for some fun, a young buck is a good ride

 

Things start to get more difficult for both sexes as they get older. The men who like to date younger women suddenly find that nobody under 50 wants somebody who is 60+

 

I dunno about that. My last long-term BF was 9 years younger. We were together over a year and are still good friends... but he was an exception. I certainly don't make a habit of that, and its not what I'm looking for.

 

Another good friend of mine married a man 9 years younger than her. It did take alot of convincing on his part that he wasn't just after her for booty.

 

Good ride... maybe. But not all that talented or interesting. No offense. Unless they are pretty well-traveled and VERY mature, I won't find it compelling. That's just me... I never could quite understand why men find younger, inexperienced women attractive (besides the visuals). Seems boring to me.

[Titania22]

From Titania's posts, I'm getting the impression that she is after much younger men. I believe that she's in her 40's.

 

While there are men out there who like "older" women, most men want somebody who is a few years younger. I'm very guilty of that as I'm 30 and am infatuated with somebody who is 22.

 

Somedude, I am so not in my 40's, how cruel. I might be getting close, but I am not there yet. And i started another thread as you suggested.

[Woggle]

I believe that men should not be looking for a serious relationship if they have sex buddies also.

[verhrzn]

Woggle's not going to like me after saying this... but it appears he has double standards. His comments on the other thread seem to indicate he's ok with guys just going out and getting sex, but not women.

 

I also don't see Nexus doing much to rein in the predators who popped their head into this thread. Seems to be all about the BS 'gatekeeper' stuff again.

 

I'm still sticking to my earlier advice though. Another poster asked what going for a relationship looks like. It looks like making your life consistent with your goals... whatever they are.

 

If someone wanted to be in an 'open' relationship, then they need to act according to the 'rules' of that subset of people. If you want a so-called legitimate, monogamous relationship, then you need to create the habits and abide by the 'rules' of that group of people... and we've painstakingly told you what those rules look like.

 

That's all. It was your back and forth that seemed confusing to me before.

 

Sorry it seemed confusing. I'm not trying to be... I started this thread not to whine about how I can't get a relationship, but to actually relate with guys who want a relationship deep down but for some reason or another can't bring themselves to go after one.

 

I want a relationship, very badly, but I also am tired of being sad and alone all the time. From what you've been saying, it seems like I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place then... Getting some of my needs met (sexual, companionship, a sense of attraction, no longer feeling desperate) means I forfeit a relationship, but forfeiting my FWB means I may never get those needs met. Because as I've stated in other threads, I'm not attractive to guys even when I don't have an FWB.

 

Is it any surprise I'm not eager to choose one or the other?

[ThsAmericanLife]

I believe that men should not be looking for a serious relationship if they have sex buddies also.

 

Duly noted. Thank you!

[ThsAmericanLife]

Sorry it seemed confusing. I'm not trying to be... I started this thread not to whine about how I can't get a relationship, but to actually relate with guys who want a relationship deep down but for some reason or another can't bring themselves to go after one.

 

I want a relationship, very badly, but I also am tired of being sad and alone all the time. From what you've been saying, it seems like I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place then... Getting some of my needs met (sexual, companionship, a sense of attraction, no longer feeling desperate) means I forfeit a relationship, but forfeiting my FWB means I may never get those needs met. Because as I've stated in other threads, I'm not attractive to guys even when I don't have an FWB.

 

Is it any surprise I'm not eager to choose one or the other?

 

No, its not a surprise. Sucks for me too. Lots of guys (the same ones posting about not having a FWB while looking for a relationship) were fond of saying "why can't you find anyone" to me as well. One was even so cruel to tell me that I needed to get over the death of my fiancee and 'settle' as well (you know who you are)... I'm certainly not looking for a carbon copy of my fiancee... but I'm not about to settle for any guy who says he wants a relationship either.

 

so, yes, I think I do understand.

 

I do believe it actually IS alot harder for a woman to find a relationship than the average man who wants one (sensing tidal wave of male-angst heading my way as I say that).

 

I've seen it a million times.

 

Unfortunately, this 'universal law' does kind of apply to both men and women. The universal law of making oneself truly available and being consistent with your goals. That works for many, many endeavors by the way. Not just with dating.

[somedude81]

 

I do believe it actually IS alot harder for a woman to find a relationship than the average man who wants one (sensing tidal wave of male-angst heading my way as I say that).

Tidal wave of male-angst goes "Woosh!"

[ThsAmericanLife]

Tidal wave of male-angst goes "Woosh!"

 

I have a volunteer spirit somedude... so how's this... if I make it to 50 before you have your next sexual encounter, *I'll* do you.

 

I just turned 47 last Saturday....

 

I'm betting you will though... just to avoid the thought of having sex with a 50 yr old woman (ha ha).

 

Keep in mind though, that I can still do my splits, and have the body of a 20 yr old cheerleader. (That's what my last BF used to tell everyone)

[verhrzn]

Unfortunately, this 'universal law' does kind of apply to both men and women. The universal law of making oneself truly available and being consistent with your goals. That works for many, many endeavors by the way. Not just with dating.

 

So at one point do you say "Having a relationship is never gonna happen for me?" Since by "the rules" I'm not allowed to have both, there will have to come a time when I just accept I'm not attractive to guys... at what point is it advisable to make that decision?

 

Though, I'm oh so glad so many male posters have figured out why I can't find a boyfriend... being the manipulative, sociopath slut I suppose?... baring the fact that guys didn't want to date me even when I was playing by the rules and didn't have an FWB.

[Queen Zenobia]

 

I do believe it actually IS alot harder for a woman to find a relationship than the average man who wants one (sensing tidal wave of male-angst heading my way as I say that).

 

I've seen it a million times.

 

I used to think this myself before I started going on LS. Apparently 80s-90s generation is full of involuntarily celibate males, many of which post on LS. Granted LS isn't a laboratory study, but I think it's probably even. With both genders having their own issues.

[Woggle]

It is just as hard for a man to find love as it is for a woman. I really wish women would at least attempt to see the relationship world from our point of view sometimes. Understanding each other would improve gender relations.

[Queen Zenobia]

It is just as hard for a man to find love as it is for a woman. I really wish women would at least attempt to see the relationship world from our point of view sometimes. Understanding each other would improve gender relations.

 

Woggle, see: above post.

[verhrzn]

It is just as hard for a man to find love as it is for a woman. I really wish women would at least attempt to see the relationship world from our point of view sometimes. Understanding each other would improve gender relations.

 

... That's what my entire first post was about, and in the last few pages, you turned around and claimed I had no empathy for males. Please explain?

[Woggle]

... That's what my entire first post was about, and in the last few pages, you turned around and claimed I had no empathy for males. Please explain?

 

The way you were reacting to men not wanting to date a woman with a FWB.

[shrubs]

don't listen to the doubters verhrzn. you got what it takes. smart, pretty, in shape. stop doubting youself. have the sex now and ignore the judgeing ones. when a man comes who pines for a relationship w/ you stop and go for him. and what the hell is this negativity about being desprate. thats a crock. were almost all desprate at times but we lie and say we dont need someone. not believeable. so what if you or your new love intrest comes off as desprate. who the hall cares. get out there and search. you're just 26. thats young. and gee stop being negative about yourself

[Nexus One]

Though, I'm oh so glad so many male posters have figured out why I can't find a boyfriend... being the manipulative, sociopath slut I suppose?... baring the fact that guys didn't want to date me even when I was playing by the rules and didn't have an FWB.

 

THAT was not the reason I thought you didn't get into a relationship. I said it was unethical AND that there would be guys that would not date you if they found out.

 

The reason I thought you didn't get into a relationship was partly and possibly because you you didn't set a boundary. And that boundary was that you said you involved yourself with guys who were already involved with other women.

 

I've asked this question many times, but you never answered it. What makes you expect that if you set such loose boundaries, that that would attract relationship oriented guys or land you a relationship?

 

A guy that is ok with dating women while he's sleeping around with women, does not tend to be the relationship oriented type.

 

So much has been said in this thread and over PM and so much has been misinterpreted, by me too, that this thread has become a spaghetti and we're misunderstanding each other because of that.

 

I'll give you my main 3 points that I made in this thread. All I've been saying is:

 

1) It's unethical for a person to mess around with other partners while dating relationship oriented people. (and not tell them about it so that their dates can't choose to opt out based on it)

 

2) I wouldn't date a woman when she turns out to be already involved with another partner. (and I cannot be obligated to do so)

 

3) A guy that does point nr1 himself, will likely not be the kind of guy that gets into a relationship with you, because he's not that kind of guy or not that phase of his life or in that state of mind. HOWEVER, it is the kind of guy you allow yourself to get involved with. And then you ask him not to talk about the other girls he's screwing, because I assume you have a hard time hearing that.

 

Despite what you and anyone else might think. I really did try to help you.

[Elysian Powder]

It is just as hard for a man to find love as it is for a woman. I really wish women would at least attempt to see the relationship world from our point of view sometimes. Understanding each other would improve gender relations.

 

Hard to find something that does not exist. I don't get you people. You'll take with open hands all of the good things but science did for you, but when science tells you that human beings aren't monogamous and that ''love'' is nothing more than the result of ridiculous simple chemical process; you close your ears and read the Cinderella story.

 

Love exists only in our veins and in organs. An orgasm of chemicals. It sure says a lot about humans. A handful of men took Man to the stars, but we still believe in the mythological figure of ''love''.

[shrubs]

It's not just the sex, it's also the companionship and the sense that I am attractive.

 

Like I said, I've been single for years without resorting to an FWB (this is the first and only time I've done it knowingly.) And it didn't pay off in any way. If anything, it made it worse, because then I looked desperate, which as we're told over and over on these forums is like anti-relationship venom.

 

So, now I'm no longer desperate and spending all my time consumed with thoughts of why I'm not good enough for all these "relationship-minded men" that seem to be littering the ground everywhere else. I still want a relationship, but I am no longer pathetic over not having one.

 

Isn't that actually going to make me more attractive in the long run, that I'm not latching onto the first guy that gives me a scrap of attention?

 

desperate isnt anti relationship venom at all. what a lie

[shrubs]

I'm not pathetic for not having a relationship, I'm pathetic for wanting one so badly.

 

I have hobbies and friends, but it doesn't make a dent. I volunteer, I work out, I jam-pack my schedule with classes and activities, and yet at the end of the day I come home to an empty apartment, and I'm sad, and I'm lonely, and I'm tired of BEING sad and lonely.

 

And if a guy comes along and looks askew at me for making myself happy before I was even aware of his existence, at the expense of no one else, then is he really worth it?

 

stop it. stop it now. youre not pathetic. all us singles want relationships badly. who stuck those negative ideas in you. get em out. right now.

[verhrzn]

THAT was not the reason I thought you didn't get into a relationship. I said it was unethical AND that there would be guys that would not date you if they found out.

 

The reason I thought you didn't get into a relationship was partly and possibly because you you didn't set a boundary. And that boundary was that you said you involved yourself with guys who were already involved with other women.

 

I've asked this question many times, but you never answered it. What makes you expect that if you set such loose boundaries, that that would attract relationship oriented guys or land you a relationship?

 

Despite what you and anyone else might think. I really did try to help you.

 

I've acknowledged your point of why guys wouldn't want to be with me, but your reason for why I can't find a relationship (and thus resorted to FWB) doesn't make sense.

 

How many guys actually date a single woman at a time, especially with online dating?

 

It seems sweet and romantic, for a guy to see a girl across a crowded coffee shop, and there is no one else he COULD be interested in, and he's just gotta get to know this one girl... And for some girls, I'm sure it does happen that way.

 

But if you're not a very desirable female... you're not the kind that gets asked out, or hit on, or crushed on... then is that scenario really an option?

 

Even guys online who mark themselves as "relationship minded" are going out on multiple dates a week, possibly making out/going further with some of the girls because they've gotten to the 4th or 5th date with them. So is there really any choice in discounting guys who multi-date, since they're probably the only ones who show even vague interest?

 

It all kind of circles back to, yeah there are guys that want relationships, but what if none of them want a relationship with you. Then what?

[shrubs]

I've acknowledged your point of why guys wouldn't want to be with me, but your reason for why I can't find a relationship (and thus resorted to FWB) doesn't make sense.

 

How many guys actually date a single woman at a time, especially with online dating?

 

It seems sweet and romantic, for a guy to see a girl across a crowded coffee shop, and there is no one else he COULD be interested in, and he's just gotta get to know this one girl... And for some girls, I'm sure it does happen that way.

 

But if you're not a very desirable female... you're not the kind that gets asked out, or hit on, or crushed on... then is that scenario really an option?

 

Even guys online who mark themselves as "relationship minded" are going out on multiple dates a week, possibly making out/going further with some of the girls because they've gotten to the 4th or 5th date with them. So is there really any choice in discounting guys who multi-date, since they're probably the only ones who show even vague interest?

 

It all kind of circles back to, yeah there are guys that want relationships, but what if none of them want a relationship with you. Then what?

 

some do. some don't. a lotta guys want sex but a lotta guys just do one gal at a time. lots of guys multi date and lots of guys don't fifty-fifty is what i see. your negative in every post. why verhrzn. if that negativity seeps out then i know whats the problem. guys dont want negativity.

[verhrzn]

some do. some don't. a lotta guys want sex but a lotta guys just do one gal at a time. lots of guys multi date and lots of guys don't fifty-fifty is what i see. your negative in every post. why verhrzn. if that negativity seeps out then i know whats the problem. guys dont want negativity.

 

What is the difference between negativity and being realistic?