So where are the Single Men??

[SoMovinOn]

Let's just say their chances are diminished. You do need to feed a man's ego, take care of him, appreciate what he does for you, not dominate or control him. That is how to get a man, and that is how to keep a man. That may not fit into women's lib philosophy, but that is the truth.

 

It is also, coincidentally, how a man gets a woman.

 

Of course, people at either extreme - very independent, very dominating or very needy, very docile, can also find someone who will fit well with them. Sometimes it is someone who is opposite of them, sometimes it is someone who is just like them.

[SoMovinOn]

What I decided is that it doesn't matter if I can or can't do better. I'd rather be alone that to settle for someone who treats me badly.

 

Bingo!! That gets my vote for the best line in all the pages of this conversation! It is far better to be alone, than to be with the wrong person.

 

I would expound on that by saying no one can successfully be in a relationship if the cannot live with themselves and be happy, alone.

[jj33]

I think women who act like that, do so because of hurt often times and a need to be defensive and strong and it's not the healthy type of independence.

 

I also have a friend whose mother is a complete tyrant, this woman is really a piece of work and his father is the exact opposite and he is more of a doormat and I have no clue how they ended up together and my friend commented that he thinks his father secretly likes her behavior because he is nowhere like that so he is attracted to the parts of her he wishes he could be....interesting!

 

Anyway, there is someone for everyone is my point and I believe that getting to a place of authenticity (not where you're acting out of hurt etc) and living your life will draw you to a partner versus searching high and low for one or devising tactics to get one. It's also about what you're willing to deal with in order to not be single...

 

Great post Miss B. I think there is truth to what both you and Kathy are saying. the majority of the time, independence is not saying Im a ball buster, 99 times out of 100, thats a defense. There are some indepenent women who are mush inside and the independence is a facade and men smell the desparation. Just like there are some women who appear to "need" a man who know how to manipulate a man within an inch of his life and use a passive aggressive approach which I understand is quite succesful thouth I have never excelled at that kind of thing.

 

Seems to me that authenticity and liking yourself whoever you are (independent or not) is always the best way to draw the right relationship into your life.

 

And to add, lots of men I know have strong wives. They are nurturing they may be stay at home mothers who are financially dependent on their husbands but make no mistake they are strong inside and their husbands appreciate that and respect them for it.

[NoIDidn't]

Let's just say their chances are diminished. You do need to feed a man's ego, take care of him, appreciate what he does for you, not dominate or control him. That is how to get a man, and that is how to keep a man. That may not fit into women's lib philosophy, but that is the truth.

 

Speak for yourself, that is NOT the truth unless you are after a misogynist that doesn't respect the woman as her own person with her own needs.

 

Women have egos, needs, desires to be "taken care of", and want to be appreciated as well.

 

The Dark Ages are over.

 

Men aren't even offering the same things that were in the offering during the "Dark Ages". At least back then, they paid for the privilege of dominating and subjugating you. Now, they expect you to do all those things and contribute to paying for it as well. LOL

[Woggle]

So if a woman is not appreciating a man or doing anything good for him why exactly would a man want her in his life. What person wants to commit to somebody who doesn't appreciate them or take care of their desires? What's the point?

[jthorne]

Let's just say their chances are diminished. You do need to feed a man's ego, take care of him, appreciate what he does for you, not dominate or control him. That is how to get a man, and that is how to keep a man. That may not fit into women's lib philosophy, but that is the truth.

But doesn't everyone want to feel needed and appreciated, cared for, and not dominated or controlled?

 

Maybe I'm missing something here.

I think the key to a healthy relationship is honesty, communication, and always being considerate of your partner. That, to me, goes both ways.

[carhill]

I would like to have a good healthy relationship in my life, but yet I've accepted that it's not probable at this stage. I do value my friendships and my family very much and I realize that the secret of truly being happy and content is within myself and I'm working on that.

 

I'd like to cosign this and express acceptance of the negative descriptions of male behaviors which were included in and followed your post. I see those behaviors in men myself. Such behaviors have become one of the criteria for deciding which males will not enjoy the benefits of my friendship and love. I applaud women who make such delineations for themselves and remain true to them.

[MissBee]

Great post Miss B. I think there is truth to what both you and Kathy are saying. the majority of the time, independence is not saying Im a ball buster, 99 times out of 100, thats a defense. There are some indepenent women who are mush inside and the independence is a facade and men smell the desparation. Just like there are some women who appear to "need" a man who know how to manipulate a man within an inch of his life and use a passive aggressive approach which I understand is quite succesful thouth I have never excelled at that kind of thing.

 

Seems to me that authenticity and liking yourself whoever you are (independent or not) is always the best way to draw the right relationship into your life.

 

And to add, lots of men I know have strong wives. They are nurturing they may be stay at home mothers who are financially dependent on their husbands but make no mistake they are strong inside and their husbands appreciate that and respect them for it.

 

Yess

 

Being strong definitely is more about your character IMO and is not mutually exclusive with being feminine or nurturing. I am both! I always joke about being a 1950s housewife secretly. I can do all that, enjoy doing all that, I very much like and want to be cared for and don't mind acting out certain gender roles...but make no mistake, I am also independent, opinionated, sensible, educated, with goals, plans, determination, drive, ambition and the rest. I want to stay home with my babies for a while when I have them but I also am doing and will do the career thing. It can all exist together and as you said, it's about liking who you are and allowing the REAL you to draw someone to you. It makes no sense to "get a man" by doing things that are inauthentic, as then you're going to have to carry on the charade or eventually it will come to light that you aren't who you say you are. I think the best match for you will be the person who absolutely loves the real you and not your facade.

[MissBee]

Speak for yourself, that is NOT the truth unless you are after a misogynist that doesn't respect the woman as her own person with her own needs.

 

Women have egos, needs, desires to be "taken care of", and want to be appreciated as well.

The Dark Ages are over.

 

Men aren't even offering the same things that were in the offering during the "Dark Ages". At least back then, they paid for the privilege of dominating and subjugating you. Now, they expect you to do all those things and contribute to paying for it as well. LOL

 

LOL I concur....

 

I am always leery fo advice on how to "get and keep a man"...the people who speak like that, IME, are those with whom I have little in common and their own relationships do not mimic what I would like for myself anyway, so it's useless advice to me as that will "catch" a particular kind of man and that kind of man is a man with whom I have no business. So be careful what you're catching....

[KathyM]

I view it like this, I am who I am, I've had to be strong and tough and I'm stronger and tougher now than I've ever been. I will not bend myself into a pretzel for a man, however I do realize that a man has needs, but yet I as a woman have needs also. How to balance each other's needs and stay true to yourself is a very difficult balance and so far obviously I've not had long term success at it. Again, no woman or man should have to pretend to be something they are not for the sake of a relationship and if that is what is required then I'm out. My life has shown me that men can't be counted on for the long term. That is realistic, not fantasy.

 

I would like to have a good healthy relationship in my life, but yet I've accepted that it's not probable at this stage. I do value my friendships and my family very much and I realize that the secret of truly being happy and content is within myself and I'm working on that.

I'd like to suggest that if you are giving off that vibe to men, and some women do because they have been hurt too many times or disappointed too many times, men start thinking you're jaded and are not a good risk. And also, I would disagree with you that men can't be counted on for the long term. I've been married to my husband for many years, and still going strong. My parents have been married for over 50 years. I know many couples who have been married long term, and many quality men who can be counted on. That is the reality, not a fantasy. But I would agree with you that you don't need a man in order to be happy. But they are kind of nice to have around sometimes. I'm not suggesting you pretend to be weak, or pretend to be dependent, or pretend to be anything that you are not. I'm just suggesting that you keep in mind that men do want to feel needed, feel appreciated, be taken care of, and not be dominated. If you come on too strong, and some women do, you are going to scare them off. Most men can't stand women who are too bossy, too loud, too cocky, too overbearing, too controlling, and who think they can take or leave having a man in their life. They want to be needed, and they want to be wanted. They want to feel important. Although you don't need a man and can get along fine without him, I would suggest you not give him that impression.

[KathyM]

Speak for yourself, that is NOT the truth unless you are after a misogynist that doesn't respect the woman as her own person with her own needs.

 

Women have egos, needs, desires to be "taken care of", and want to be appreciated as well.

 

The Dark Ages are over.

 

Men aren't even offering the same things that were in the offering during the "Dark Ages". At least back then, they paid for the privilege of dominating and subjugating you. Now, they expect you to do all those things and contribute to paying for it as well. LOL

What is not the truth in what I said? That men need their ego stroked? Sure they do. That men want to be taken care of? Sure they do. Women do too. That men don't want to be dominated? Very few men want to be dominated. Only the weak ones do. And I would agree with you that men want to have it all. A woman who will take care of them, bring home a paycheck, and allow them to do what they want. You just have to balance your needs vs. his needs. It's when women don't care about a man's needs, or trying to appease them, and come across as someone that won't care, that scares men away.

[KathyM]

But doesn't everyone want to feel needed and appreciated, cared for, and not dominated or controlled?

 

Maybe I'm missing something here.

I think the key to a healthy relationship is honesty, communication, and always being considerate of your partner. That, to me, goes both ways.

True. What I'm trying to suggest is that women who come across as too liberated (won't serve a man, won't care about what he thinks or what he wants, is going to be a "ball buster", etc., and too difficult to get along with), and who gives the impression that they don't need a man, is not going to be as successful with men. That's all I'm saying.

[Woggle]

True. What I'm trying to suggest is that women who come across as too liberated (won't serve a man, won't care about what he thinks or what he wants, is going to be a "ball buster", etc., and too difficult to get along with), and who gives the impression that they don't need a man, is not going to be as successful with men. That's all I'm saying.

 

And in no way is a man a misogynist or a chauvinist for not wanting a woman like this. I am sure most women would not want the male version of this.

[KathyM]

WHOA! First you have your reality and I have mine and seriously you have no idea what kind of vibes I give out. Also a newsflash for you, I have known of successful long term relationships so I do know they exist. My grandma and my grandpa would have been married 75 yrs had he lived another month or so.

 

Not once did you mention in your post above about a woman's needs, not ONCE, it was all about what you think a man needs and requires. Now why is that?

 

Oh I am jaded and if there is a future man in my life, he'll have to deal with it, it's who I am. Being jaded doesn't mean that I have to be a miserable bitch, but it is a part of me and to hide it would be hiding part of me. So, I have no intention of hiding it despite your advice.

Well, you said yourself that men can't be counted on. So I'm going by what you said. I'm glad to see that you agree then that there are quality men out there who can be counted on. No I haven't stressed in my posts what a woman's needs are, since the subject was about why strong, independent women can't seem to attract men. I was giving a possible explanation. So you have no intention of toning down the jaded vibe. Well, suit yourself. But that won't serve you well. Just sayin.

[carhill]

The bolded, What exactly do you mean by SERVE a man?

A corollary..... I would routinely accept a call in the evening from my exW, letting me know when she would be leaving on her evening commute, asking her how she was feeling and what she would like prepared for dinner when she arrived and any other requests she might have. I'd then act on that conversation. I was 'serving' her. On those evenings, I'd adjust my dinner hour to match hers, perhaps prepare a foot bath or start a recording of American Idol, a program she liked, so she wouldn't miss any of it due to her late arrival. Stuff like that.

 

In my mom's era, 'serving' was exemplified by having three courses on the table and the newspaper at my dad's chair when he arrived home from work. It was 'work' my mother did gladly and with vigor. Theirs was a marriage of teamwork. Each person on the team had their respective 'service' to perform for the team.

[KathyM]

The bolded, What exactly do you mean by SERVE a man?

Serve meaning doing something for him. I believe both husbands and wives should serve each other. Should do things for their partner. Cook for them, do chores for them, pamper them, take care of their sexual needs and their needs for companionship. Women who are too preoccupied with themselves and think it's beneath them to serve a man is not a partner worth having. That is why many marriages fail is because the husband and wife start living for themselves, and start begrudging doing anything for their spouse. They don't take care of their spouse anymore. So the spouse starts to realize they aren't getting much out of this marriage. The partners start to live separate lives, only serving their own needs, and stop caring about serving their partner. For some couples, they started off caring, but slipped into selfishness along the way. For other couples, they were selfish from the start, so their marriage was doomed from the start. If you give a man the impression that you are too self-absorbed in your own life and would not be a caring partner, he'll be likely to pass you by.

[Woggle]

If a husband is willing to serve a wife I see nothing sexist about the other way around.

[xxoo]

The bolded, What exactly do you mean by SERVE a man?

 

It's a loaded word, because it has historically been one-sided. But wouldn't you hope that the man you love would enjoy serving you? (breakfast in bed, comfort when you are sick, preparing your coffee in the am, etc).

 

A good man will want to serve you, and hopes that you will enjoy serving him, too

[Gentlegirl]

The thing is...what does "getting a man" mean..who is "a man"....each man is an individual with certain likes, dislikes, background etc that will mesh with yours or not.

 

There are of course ways to be a pleasant human being that most people will like but the truth is, some men like passive women, some like aggressive women, some like women that are "bad a$$", some like women that are prim and proper, some like women who are raunchy, some like women who are conservative...the list goes on. However you are, some person finds that to be wonderful and I think your goal should be to attract those to you who will like the authentic you.

 

I am how I am and my goal isn't to get "a man" or to be attractive to and chased by this monolith called "men" but to find a particular man, with particular traits, a man who chooses me as I choose him, a man who finds that when he looks at his "list", I fit it and then some and a man that I feel the same about. Who cares if Joe Blow doesn't find me attractive, thinks I talk too much, wear too little or too much makeup etc. Joe Blow is clearly not "my man" then and that's perfectly fine too. I told my bestfriend that the problem of finding a man doesn't concern me as MY man is of a special breed and I know I will one day come across him, therefore have no anxiety about having to go through a "grab bag" of men searching, and then kissing a whole bunch of frogs and becoming disillusioned. I have in the past done the "grab bag"....was a disaster. I didn't have my self and standards together either, but now my ideas about dating, love and relationships are entirely different and I have found more quality, with less stress and anxiety, than I have before. I already see the change and can't wait to finally meet "the one".

 

YOu make me laugh.

 

I have kissed a whole bunch of frogs also. Guess what??? Every damned one of the turned into a toad. I swear xMm turned into a crocodile.

 

I am happily getting along, without serving any man or pretending to be somebody I'm not.

 

I know what I want. If I can't have that kind of man...I'd rather have none.

 

 

GG

[MissBee]

YOu make me laugh.

 

I have kissed a whole bunch of frogs also. Guess what??? Every damned one of the turned into a toad. I swear xMm turned into a crocodile.

I am happily getting along, without serving any man or pretending to be somebody I'm not.

 

I know what I want. If I can't have that kind of man...I'd rather have none.

 

 

GG

 

I'm with you on that

 

The worst part is, I remember wishing to have a boyfriend so bad at one point....my wish was granted...turned into a nightmare! But I learned a valuable lesson from that experience that forever changed my outlook. There's the Biblical passage that says "Seek ye first the kingdom of God and all these things will be added unto you"...I believe seeking first to be true to yourself, to work on yourself, to get to a place of happiness, abundance and security with yourself is foremost then everything else falls into place. What I used to do was the opposite, chase external things (like believing finding a boyfriend would improve my life) and it NEVER worked.... especially since I only attracted a certain kind of person/situation that was a match for me not being where I needed to be. No matter how shiny he looked, I attracted him to me because of not-so-good reasons and it then turned into a mess.

 

I finally wised up! It made a huge difference. I am a huge romantic and I of course sometimes feel lonely, then I remember friends I have who are in relationships who are not happier than I am! They are less happy in fact, as they've compounded their problems by adding someone else to it and then have all this drama and the pain of attachment to that which doesn't serve them. They're fumbling around making decisions based on a bad relationship and emotional burden while I am free to live my life, hope for better, enjoy myself and live my life for me. All relationships aren't created equal and just because you have a bf/gf/husband/wife doesn't mean you are happy. The worst is still being lonely while in a relationship

 

The relationships I admire, like my brother and his fiance, they are a happy couple because they were happy people before, living life, doing their own thing and then each other came along increasing the happiness. Neither of them was lamenting over finding a man/woman or chasing the external, but my brother and his fiance are people who always seemed to live from a place of joy and satisfaction at all times. I really admire them for that and that's my desire: to live my life fully and not settle for "a relationship", "a fling" "an affair" but the best possible relationship that is suited for me and that will increase the abundance already existing in my life...not where I have to get bent out of shape trying to keep it together, as at any point it will fall a part smh. I know too many people who do not enjoy their relationship...all they do is try to fix it, patch it together, fight so hard to make it work and just exist in it smh...all because they have no idea how to be happy or they don't want to face themselves so this horrible distraction of a "relationship" is better than nothing. I can't do that again.

Edited September 20, 2011 by MissBee

[MissBee]

humph...

 

all the "single men" around here seem to be hitting on my 13 1/2 year old daughter.

 

nasty.

 

( granted, she's almost 6ft tall, looks about 20 and is really pretty...luckily, she's still at the "guys are gross" stage...she got a "love note" from a boy a few days ago. she read it, corrected the grammar/spelling mistakes in it, and gave it back to him. I thought that was great, and hope she will be like that for as long as posssible, otherwise, i may have get a stick to put the run on the guys)

 

LMAO

[Diogenes]

I know where all the single guys are, at least the good ones, they are at home licking their wounds. All my life I have done nothing but treat women with respect and consideration, only to find time after time this treatment ended up causing the woman to bolt for more exciting pastures.

 

In my 55 years I have always been " the Nice Guy" many claim to want. By the time I was in my early 30's I gave up looking for my soul mate and even considered joining a Buddhist monastery for a year to clear my thinking on it. I'd had enough of mixed messages.

 

It was when I gave up looking that my future wife came along, which I think seems to be the secret of these things. She was everything I had every searched for and more, dropped right into my lap through a friend's introduction. We were together for 24 years, had two great kids, paid the mortgage off and things were looking very good.

 

For 24 years she bragged me up to all the girls at work because I helped with the laundry, cooking child rearing and didn't watch football ;~) I had a home office which made this possible, then in the space of a month or two she became withdrawn and quite, wouldn't tell me what was bothering her. She left in July for some guy on a internet game chat room who lives with his Grandmother and plays role playing games most days.

 

Before I'm accused of some failing or character flaw that made me "unworthy", I'm a guy who has NEVER dumped anyone in my entire life. When I married, to me that was it, I was her's and her's alone. I loved my wife for better and worse, did laundry, changed diapers, cooked meals, massaged shoulders, made coffee and breakfast for my wife for 24 years.

 

After all that it wasn't enough, a lot of other men tell me the same thing, there are a lot of us out there. Now I will be back out there, might take me a year or so to get over this, it hits guys just as hard as the women. it's amazing we are even willing to give another relationship a second thought ;~)

[MissBee]

I know where all the single guys are, at least the good ones, they are at home licking their wounds. All my life I have done nothing but treat women with respect and consideration, only to find time after time this treatment ended up causing the woman to bolt for more exciting pastures.

 

In my 55 years I have always been " the Nice Guy" many claim to want. By the time I was in my early 30's I gave up looking for my soul mate and even considered joining a Buddhist monastery for a year to clear my thinking on it. I'd had enough of mixed messages.

 

It was when I gave up looking that my future wife came along, which I think seems to be the secret of these things. She was everything I had every searched for and more, dropped right into my lap through a friend's introduction. We were together for 24 years, had two great kids, paid the mortgage off and things were looking very good.

 

For 24 years she bragged me up to all the girls at work because I helped with the laundry, cooking child rearing and didn't watch football ;~) I had a home office which made this possible, then in the space of a month or two she became withdrawn and quite, wouldn't tell me what was bothering her. She left in July for some guy on a internet game chat room who lives with his Grandmother and plays role playing games most days.

 

Before I'm accused of some failing or character flaw that made me "unworthy", I'm a guy who has NEVER dumped anyone in my entire life. When I married, to me that was it, I was her's and her's alone. I loved my wife for better and worse, did laundry, changed diapers, cooked meals, massaged shoulders, made coffee and breakfast for my wife for 24 years.

 

After all that it wasn't enough, a lot of other men tell me the same thing, there are a lot of us out there. Now I will be back out there, might take me a year or so to get over this, it hits guys just as hard as the women. it's amazing we are even willing to give another relationship a second thought ;~)

 

Hi Diogenes,

 

Thanks for sharing! You do sound like a great guy and you did enjoy 24 years and I do not think a "failing character flaw" should be blamed for what happened with your wife. I don't know every facet of your lives and it doesn't matter, but I do believe that some relationships aren't meant to go on forever, and perhaps 24 years was the stint you guys were allotted.

 

I am definitely sorry for your pain and the feeling that life isn't fair...but I'm glad that you aren't scared to love again and I do believe it is possible to have more than one lifetime love . All you can do is take the lessons, both good and painful, from that and move forward. While you may not be a horrible person, I do think we all play some part in the demise of a situation and that knowledge helps us to grow, whether it is to improve ourselves, pull back something, push forth something or just realize certain things. Good luck with your next go-around!

[half_ofa_heart]

see, i usually date women like you but then after 3 or 4 months they try to start dominating me and thats when i split...

 

I don't WANT to dominate ANYONE!!!! But I don't want to take care of anyone either. I had 2 kids cuz I didn't want 3!!! But this doesn't mean that I don't enjoy doing things for the man in my life - quite the contrary; I love to do many things for them but there is a huge difference between "Wanting" to do stuff for them and "expected" to do stuff for them. it is a fine line.

 

However, I have found that most men want to be the one who takes care of their woman; they want to feel needed. I don't NEED a man, I WANT a man. I can take care of myself but it would be nice to meet someone to SHARE a life with.

[Diogenes]

Thank you for your kind words Misbee, my grief over this has been beyond belief, I'm fighting it tooth and nail one day at a time. My soul mate, and best friend looked at me like a total stranger, both left the same day...... I just wanted the girls to know guys like me are out there..