Do you stay for the kids?

[heartinlove]

So my whole situation has taken a turn of events.

 

His wife found out we were in contact over the last number of months when she thought there was none. Long story short, he told her he was leaving. He was planning to tell her soon anyway. He finally worked up the courage and told her everything including he was in love with me and no longer in love with her.

 

After many back and forths with myself and her, he again told her he had decided to leave. She again asked him to stay and take more time to make a decision.

 

After another long conversation with his wife during that time she then said that she is giving him the space to make a choice and if he decides to leave she will help have a graceful transition with the children. She accepted that he was no longer in love with her, but she still wanted him to stay as she loves him. He felt for the first time he had a real choice believing she would do what was best for the kids. I was hoping she truly had a transformation and was giving him a real choice.

 

So a couple of days ago she asks him what his choice is. He tells her his choice is to leave. She then says she will make it very difficult for him to be with the children and she will move the children far away from him. After many hours of her telling him he hasn’t given her enough of a chance and convincing him that he will destroy his childrens lives by separating, he relented and told her he would stay. He has told me his heart is not in the marriage, he is simply staying for the kids.

 

When he told me all of this and he just looked so exhausted by it all. I think it was as much a tremendous let down to him as me. At this point he should just stay. Unless he is at peace with his choice and really believes his children will be able to go through this transition, why do it. So again he told me he’s in love with me, that he had really believed as well we’d be together soon, but he is overwhelmed with fear and concern around his children. He also is very pained at the thought of not living with his children all the time. I understand this completely as this has always been the heart of the issue. Do you stay for the kids or not? Is it better to live a lie and stay for the kids, or is it better to choose your truth and where your heart is and believe the kids will be able to make the transition. It’s a big question and there are lots of different answers and beliefs. He is not concrete in his belief system around this and this is why he gets paralyzed with indecision. On days like today, I also wonder, should he just stay for the kids?

 

I can only believe at this point, that every time she tells him he has a choice is just to manipulate him. When he doesn’t give the answers she wants she then makes it clear she will make his life very difficult in terms of being with his children. Any BS’s have thoughts on this?

 

Perhaps one day he will choose to leave, but I understand that unless his wife will have the best interests of the children at heart, this will be hard on everyone. I am also facing the reality that he is not strong enough to stand up to her and doesn’t have enough conviction that his children can get through a divorce to do this. I am thinking at this point to encourage him to stay for the kids and break off contact with him and help him stay in the marriage for his kids sake. I love him enough to let him go if that is whats best.

 

 

I come from a blended family that was incredibly happy, so that has shaped my beliefs. I saw first hand that when you follow your heart, it may be painful in the short term, but in the end it’s the best for everyone. Maybe I’ve allowed that to blind me in this situation and perhaps following your heart isn’t always the best choice.

 

Im feeling conflicted right now, and trying to do the right thing.

 

 

Any thoughts?

[SidLyon]

So my whole situation has taken a turn of events.

 

His wife found out we were in contact over the last number of months when she thought there was none. Long story short, he told her he was leaving. He was planning to tell her soon anyway. He finally worked up the courage and told her everything including he was in love with me and no longer in love with her.

 

After many back and forths with myself and her, he again told her he had decided to leave. She again asked him to stay and take more time to make a decision.

 

After another long conversation with his wife during that time she then said that she is giving him the space to make a choice and if he decides to leave she will help have a graceful transition with the children. She accepted that he was no longer in love with her, but she still wanted him to stay as she loves him. He felt for the first time he had a real choice believing she would do what was best for the kids. I was hoping she truly had a transformation and was giving him a real choice.

 

So a couple of days ago she asks him what his choice is. He tells her his choice is to leave. She then says she will make it very difficult for him to be with the children and she will move the children far away from him. After many hours of her telling him he hasn’t given her enough of a chance and convincing him that he will destroy his childrens lives by separating, he relented and told her he would stay. He has told me his heart is not in the marriage, he is simply staying for the kids.

 

When he told me all of this and he just looked so exhausted by it all. I think it was as much a tremendous let down to him as me. At this point he should just stay. Unless he is at peace with his choice and really believes his children will be able to go through this transition, why do it. So again he told me he’s in love with me, that he had really believed as well we’d be together soon, but he is overwhelmed with fear and concern around his children. He also is very pained at the thought of not living with his children all the time. I understand this completely as this has always been the heart of the issue. Do you stay for the kids or not? Is it better to live a lie and stay for the kids, or is it better to choose your truth and where your heart is and believe the kids will be able to make the transition. It’s a big question and there are lots of different answers and beliefs. He is not concrete in his belief system around this and this is why he gets paralyzed with indecision. On days like today, I also wonder, should he just stay for the kids?

 

I can only believe at this point, that every time she tells him he has a choice is just to manipulate him. When he doesn’t give the answers she wants she then makes it clear she will make his life very difficult in terms of being with his children. Any BS’s have thoughts on this?

 

Perhaps one day he will choose to leave, but I understand that unless his wife will have the best interests of the children at heart, this will be hard on everyone. I am also facing the reality that he is not strong enough to stand up to her and doesn’t have enough conviction that his children can get through a divorce to do this. I am thinking at this point to encourage him to stay for the kids and break off contact with him and help him stay in the marriage for his kids sake. I love him enough to let him go if that is whats best.

 

 

I come from a blended family that was incredibly happy, so that has shaped my beliefs. I saw first hand that when you follow your heart, it may be painful in the short term, but in the end it’s the best for everyone. Maybe I’ve allowed that to blind me in this situation and perhaps following your heart isn’t always the best choice.

 

Im feeling conflicted right now, and trying to do the right thing.

 

 

Any thoughts?

 

You asked for thoughts from BS of which I'm one.

 

There's something about this that doesn't sit right.

 

First of all it sounds like they've been through this before but he continued to gaslight her about his continued contact with you. Neither you nor he can really honestly expect decent behaviour from her when she hasn't been treated decently over the past few months.

 

Can I ask has it been made clear to her whether he does or does not plan/hope to have continued contact with you if he stays?

 

I'm asking about his plans not yours. If he's told her that it will end with you if he stays with her, then I can see why she might try to get him to stay by saying if he leaves she will make things difficult about the kids. After all he's giving he that option.

 

If he's told her (again) that he will have no contact with you if he stays but secretly plans to keep you on the side (if you let him) then really neither you nor he have many grounds to complain about her manipulation.

 

If he's told her he'll stay and have no further contact with you (and he means it) then it's no longer your problem.

 

If he's told her that he will stay but will continue to have contact with you, then that's a slightly different situation but I'm not sure how you can really expect good behaviour from her in that situation.

 

Either way it sounds like he's doing an awful lot of manipulation himself with your assistance, so it's a bit much for you to accuse her of it.

[Gentlegirl]

It's a no win situation really. If he leaves he will be unhappy , because the W is going to exert her power with the kids. she has already said as much.

 

If he doesn't, you will be heartbroken.

 

Is it possible for you to step out of the picture for a while and let them work it out?

 

Dreadul mess at this stage. Not all blended familes work as you probably know. My late husband and I tried to get everything together but it was always disjointed... not hostile, but not right.

 

GG

[woinlove]

Like Sid, I wonder if he has made it clear that he is remaining in contact with you. Most spouses would not consider that "working on the M". If he is still lying about his behavior then their home situation is likely shifting all the time. She may say one thing while she believes one thing, but when something causes her to doubt that reality, she may say another.

 

As GG said, best to try to remove yourself from this situation. Perhaps your happy blended family situation did not have such extended deception involved. It takes time for people to heal from that and the healing won't even have started if he is still lying. In fact, new pain will be inflicted which adds to the amount to heal. Everyone may be in for a very traumatic time for a while, no matter what the ultimate outcome is.

[bentnotbroken]

I would think that unless you actually hear these conversations you only hear what he wants you to hear. Keep in mind that he had no problem lying to her about your continued involvement when he led her to believe he was committed to working on the marriage. My question to you is why do you believe that he would have a problem lying to you about remaining married to keep the affair going?

 

The fact that you recognize he doesn't have a solid belief system should explain better his inability to maintain boundaries(hence the affair) and this lack of boundaries screws with everyone. I for one do not believe all BS keep children from the ex(YES, some do), he is a known liar and manipulator(his actions toward her) tend to put people on the defensive and they might fight back. What do you expect? Another question I would ask is why is it always expected that the BS should have the best interest of the children at heart(yes they should) but the WS doesn't not have the best interest at heart when they lie and gaslight the children's mother/father. It seems like a double standard.

 

IMO the martyr syndrome does no one any good.

[whichwayisup]

He's lying to you and talking out both sides of his ass.

 

After another long conversation with his wife during that time she then said that she is giving him the space to make a choice and if he decides to leave she will help have a graceful transition with the children. She accepted that he was no longer in love with her, but she still wanted him to stay as she loves him. He felt for the first time he had a real choice believing she would do what was best for the kids. I was hoping she truly had a transformation and was giving him a real choice.

 

So a couple of days ago she asks him what his choice is. He tells her his choice is to leave. She then says she will make it very difficult for him to be with the children and she will move the children far away from him. After many hours of her telling him he hasn’t given her enough of a chance and convincing him that he will destroy his childrens lives by separating, he relented and told her he would stay. He has told me his heart is not in the marriage, he is simply staying for the kids.

 

He either forgot he lied to you and told another lie, or he's made this up. Something is not right, the way he is describing her reaction and then reaction again a few days later.

 

Something is so off with what is truly going on, sorry, but don't get your hopes up..Whatever his reason is for staying is valid enough to him, like it or not. He may be telling you it's staying for his kids, but there is more.

[PhoenixRise]

He's lying to you and talking out both sides of his ass.

 

 

 

He either forgot he lied to you and told another lie, or he's made this up. Something is not right, the way he is describing her reaction and then reaction again a few days later.

 

Something is so off with what is truly going on, sorry, but don't get your hopes up..Whatever his reason is for staying is valid enough to him, like it or not. He may be telling you it's staying for his kids, but there is more.

 

I think it is the characterization OP and MM are putting on the wife's actions that is off.

 

It sounds like perhaps the wife is willing to let him go if that is what he wants. It sounds like she has said she will do what she can to help maintain his relationship with the children and that she has told him she will be fair.

 

It also sounds like perhaps there are just some realities that go along with splitting up the family that MM does not want to face.

 

When I separated from my husband I had been a SAHM for awhile. I told him he would have access to our child (I meant it). I told him I wouldn't block visits or bad mouth him (I meant it). I told him that I didn't want any spousal support and that he and I would work out child support (I meant it). I told him that he was a great father and our child adored him and I didn't want anything to change that (I meant it). But he also knew that since our family had recently moved across the country, away from our extended family and my former job a divorce meant that I would have to (at least in the short term) move back to where we had lived previously to get support from my extended family and to reboot my career.

 

Now he could have easily told his OW that I was threatening to take our child away but the truth is, I was just dealing with the reality of the consequences of a divorce in our particular situation.

 

Maybe MM's wife is also just dealing with the reality of what divorce means in their situation. No manipulation. Just reality. And just because that reality doesn't line up with the fantasy, idealized scenario you and he would like to happen that doesn't mean the wife is being manipulative.

[jwi71]

His wife found out we were in contact over the last number of months when she thought there was none. Long story short, he told her he was leaving. He was planning to tell her soon anyway. He finally worked up the courage and told her everything including he was in love with me and no longer in love with her.

 

After many back and forths with myself and her, he again told her he had decided to leave. She again asked him to stay and take more time to make a decision.

 

After another long conversation with his wife during that time she then said that she is giving him the space to make a choice and if he decides to leave she will help have a graceful transition with the children. She accepted that he was no longer in love with her, but she still wanted him to stay as she loves him. He felt for the first time he had a real choice believing she would do what was best for the kids. I was hoping she truly had a transformation and was giving him a real choice.

 

So a couple of days ago she asks him what his choice is. He tells her his choice is to leave. She then says she will make it very difficult for him to be with the children and she will move the children far away from him. After many hours of her telling him he hasn’t given her enough of a chance and convincing him that he will destroy his childrens lives by separating, he relented and told her he would stay. He has told me his heart is not in the marriage, he is simply staying for the kids.

 

When he told me all of this and he just looked so exhausted by it all. I think it was as much a tremendous let down to him as me. At this point he should just stay. Unless he is at peace with his choice and really believes his children will be able to go through this transition, why do it. So again he told me he’s in love with me, that he had really believed as well we’d be together soon, but he is overwhelmed with fear and concern around his children. He also is very pained at the thought of not living with his children all the time. I understand this completely as this has always been the heart of the issue. Do you stay for the kids or not? Is it better to live a lie and stay for the kids, or is it better to choose your truth and where your heart is and believe the kids will be able to make the transition. It’s a big question and there are lots of different answers and beliefs. He is not concrete in his belief system around this and this is why he gets paralyzed with indecision. On days like today, I also wonder, should he just stay for the kids?

 

I can only believe at this point, that every time she tells him he has a choice is just to manipulate him. When he doesn’t give the answers she wants she then makes it clear she will make his life very difficult in terms of being with his children. Any BS’s have thoughts on this?

 

Perhaps one day he will choose to leave, but I understand that unless his wife will have the best interests of the children at heart, this will be hard on everyone. I am also facing the reality that he is not strong enough to stand up to her and doesn’t have enough conviction that his children can get through a divorce to do this. I am thinking at this point to encourage him to stay for the kids and break off contact with him and help him stay in the marriage for his kids sake. I love him enough to let him go if that is whats best.

 

 

I come from a blended family that was incredibly happy, so that has shaped my beliefs. I saw first hand that when you follow your heart, it may be painful in the short term, but in the end it’s the best for everyone. Maybe I’ve allowed that to blind me in this situation and perhaps following your heart isn’t always the best choice.

 

Im feeling conflicted right now, and trying to do the right thing.

 

 

Any thoughts?

 

He's full of shyte.

 

His W CANNOT move his children far away once a D is filed. The court either has a standing order or your MM can file one that PREVENTS his W from moving anywhere (with the kids anyway). Complete and utter bullshyte. I mean really, do these MM really think they are the first to have an A and have an angry spouse threaten this? That judges haven't seen this 1000 times before. That the judges are just powerless to stop it? Gimme a break.

 

The first thing your MM NEEDS to do is hire a lawyer and file for D. The act of filing for D affords him MANY legal protections (aforementioned standing orders, precludes any abandonment filings, financial protections, etc).

 

So MY first question is ...why hasn't he hired a lawyer and filed for D? He needs to do this ASAP.

 

I'm also guessing you don't have to sneak around anymore right? He's free to spend as many nights at your place as he wants...right?

 

This sounds like another long on words (and words not spoken in your presence) and actions. I mean, forget his BS who doesn't have as much legal power as anyone thinks, given all he has said why hasn't he 1) moved out and 2) filed for D?

 

Its amazing how these MM can't file for D (which can be withdrawn you know) or hire a lawyer and ask what protections can be put in place to prevent this.

 

As far as his W "turning the kids" against him. Not likely.

 

What's stopping him from getting his D and then having himself and his kids attend therapy sessions? To help them recover from D, counter the W's actions, and gradually introduce you as step-mommy? In fact, he can have his D specifically worded to allow for therapy with his kids no matter which parent has custody. See, like magic his problems go away with a lawyer and filing for D.

 

His FIRST move Monday morning is hiring a lawyer and filing for D.

I think a GREAT many of his fears can be alleviated.

[heartinlove]

Thanks for the feedback.

 

He has told his wife that he is in contact with me. She is aware that he has been talking to me as well as he makes his decision. He finally worked up the courage to tell her the truth about everything.

 

He is being honest with me about how everything has unfolded.

 

I do believe I should step away and let them work it out whatever the outcome. There are no plans for he and I to stay in contact if he stays in the marriage. We have said that we would not be in contact if he stays.

 

I just felt it was a bit of a set up to say he had a choice, and then once he said he chose to leave, to then imply that she would make it difficult in relation to the children. And yes, he has legal rights, its just who wants a legal battle over your kids. He doesn't want to put them through that.

 

I understand all of you. Perhaps, I am not being understanding enough of what it feels like to be in her shoes. Maybe it is too much to expect at this point that she would offer to be gracious about the kids or that she could really offer him a choice. Perhaps she is doing what she feels is right to protect her family. I was just hoping he would have the space to make an honest choice and then we could all move forward.

 

I also feel that until he makes peace with how this will affect his children he needs to stay. Another reason for me to step out of this picture. We have tried so many times to let go of each other, and miss each other so much that we end up talking again. But maybe its not fair to even talk to each other as we have these last number of months.

 

I just need to step away and let them deal with this.

[Summer Breeze]

I'm not going to get into whether or not he's lying. My parents stayed together for the kids and I still suffer from it. It wasn't the right choice for them and it wasn't right for us.

 

Men do have it tough and I've seen enough who have left the right way be punished by their wives-my brother being one-with the kids. Not everyone will do that but posters who say it doesn't happen have their heads buried.

 

Having been a BS and looking after a little one myself when xH and I divorced I agree that his W may well just be saying how things will be if there's a D. The world does change and we've heard both WS and BS on here saying they've stayed for the kids and because sometimes it's easier.

 

I wouldn't stay for anyone but me but that's me.

 

Whether he's lying or whatever you are in a position where you will be fighting this emotion till the kids are relatively self sufficient. You need to step outside and figure out what you want from this. Make your choice and let them do what they've got to do.

[country_gurl]

 

Im feeling conflicted right now, and trying to do the right thing.

 

 

Any thoughts?

 

Honestly, if you were really trying to do the right thing, you wouldn't be in this mess with someone's husband.

 

You have absolutely no 100% unsubstantiated proof that anything he's telling you is the truth, with respect to his WIFE apparently manipulating him via their children such that he's remaining with her 'for the kids.' The whole concept of "staying for the kids" is the biggest and most classic married cheater's "line" in the book.

 

How can you sleep at night and look yourself in the mirror knowing that you're complicating someone's marriage and family? His wife doesn't deserve that nor do his innocent children. I'm assuming she must know he has a mistress (you) so she's likely feeling very much "out of control" and she's desperate not to lose the man she loves/walked down the aisle with/had children with. *IF* she really is using the kids as leverage here (and that's a big "if"), while it's not right, it is understandable.

 

Why don't you just muster up some respect for his wife, their family and yourself..........and step away from this mess. If he's so unhappy in his marriage then he should be ending it for himself, not because he's got a nice safe place to land with his mistress (you). Do you want a man who ends his marriage because he's 100% sure that it's the right thing to do...........or do you want a man who ONLY leaves it because he's got a convenient back-up plan/Plan B (someone else on the side: you)?

 

His innocent children deserve so much more than to be living amidst the tension and hurt and having to see their Mommy and Daddy so unhappy. They didn't ask to be in the middle of this mess.

 

Muster up some respect for someone's marriage and family and step completely away.

[MissBee]

 

When he told me all of this and he just looked so exhausted by it all. I think it was as much a tremendous let down to him as me. At this point he should just stay. Unless he is at peace with his choice and really believes his children will be able to go through this transition, why do it. So again he told me he’s in love with me, that he had really believed as well we’d be together soon, but he is overwhelmed with fear and concern around his children. He also is very pained at the thought of not living with his children all the time. I understand this completely as this has always been the heart of the issue. Do you stay for the kids or not? Is it better to live a lie and stay for the kids, or is it better to choose your truth and where your heart is and believe the kids will be able to make the transition. It’s a big question and there are lots of different answers and beliefs. He is not concrete in his belief system around this and this is why he gets paralyzed with indecision. On days like today, I also wonder, should he just stay for the kids?

 

I can only believe at this point, that every time she tells him he has a choice is just to manipulate him. When he doesn’t give the answers she wants she then makes it clear she will make his life very difficult in terms of being with his children. Any BS’s have thoughts on this?

 

Perhaps one day he will choose to leave, but I understand that unless his wife will have the best interests of the children at heart, this will be hard on everyone. I am also facing the reality that he is not strong enough to stand up to her and doesn’t have enough conviction that his children can get through a divorce to do this. I am thinking at this point to encourage him to stay for the kids and break off contact with him and help him stay in the marriage for his kids sake. I love him enough to let him go if that is whats best.

 

 

I come from a blended family that was incredibly happy, so that has shaped my beliefs. I saw first hand that when you follow your heart, it may be painful in the short term, but in the end it’s the best for everyone. Maybe I’ve allowed that to blind me in this situation and perhaps following your heart isn’t always the best choice.

Im feeling conflicted right now, and trying to do the right thing.

 

 

Any thoughts?

 

 

Hey heart,

 

Sorry for your situation, but I think some of the choices you're making are wise and can only be for your good and the overall good.

 

I think it is important what you said about him not being able to stand up to her and HIM not being convinced about what to do re his children. I think that is what it boils down to. Many people divorce, separate, never even were married to begin with and had to sort children out between them and someone they were once romantic with but are with no longer. Your own family is a testament to that. It's not about it being easy, it's about the fact that people make the choices to do what they can live with. Someone either chooses to be in an unhappy marriage, stay for the kids and potentially be in a destructive situation OR they figure ways out to care for their kids but still have their life/move on from a former partner. I mean if the kids are 2, are you going to stay for the next 16 years? Until they graduate from college? What? Life is too short IMO for anyone to waste a decade or more, or even less, unhappy, not moving forward with their life.

 

People are often scared of change and difficulty but at some point, you are either unhappy and brave enough to forge a new life or too scared and not unhappy enough to sit around for years on end because you don't want to change the status quo. I believe we have to be the drivers in our own lives and sometimes that involves taking a leap and doing difficult and uncomfortable things for the greater good long term. Your kids are a part of your life, but you have to take care of yourself too in order to care for them and I do not believe pretending to be with your spouse is necessary to be a great parent.

 

Those who feel the ONLY option they have is to stay with their partner they don't love....I am leery of that. But they feel how they feel....and I wish them well in putting up with a partner they don't love for years on end for their kids.

 

The other point is: this is HIS situation and you have a choice about sticking around or not. So many OW and people in general, meet someone who is in a situation not conducive to forming a relationship and press on and somehow entangle themselves with this person's unfinished business and make it seem like it is their burden too and they HAVE to be around.... No you don't. You have choices too and you came along and saw this situation, maybe it was a sign that this person, like or love you, they cannot be with you because of their own situation and perhaps it means you should find someone else. That will always be my belief, love without the right circumstances, might just be a temporary thing but not something you need to get bent out of shape over and stop your life for, as though it is your last chance....maybe it's not....maybe it was an "almost" but due to all the obstacles, the Universe is saying no.

 

I think you should give him space and time to do as he needs to do for his family and self and wish him well, albeit difficult. I truly believe if he loves you he shouldn't expect you to wait around with him in this mess, he also needs to man up and figure something out besides simply nodding to his wife (he does have legal rights), you should also trust that if he is meant for you then things will work themselves out. Goodluck!

Edited September 18, 2011 by MissBee

[bentnotbroken]

Thanks for the feedback.

 

He has told his wife that he is in contact with me. She is aware that he has been talking to me as well as he makes his decision. He finally worked up the courage to tell her the truth about everything.

 

He is being honest with me about how everything has unfolded.

 

I do believe I should step away and let them work it out whatever the outcome. There are no plans for he and I to stay in contact if he stays in the marriage. We have said that we would not be in contact if he stays.

 

I just felt it was a bit of a set up to say he had a choice, and then once he said he chose to leave, to then imply that she would make it difficult in relation to the children. And yes, he has legal rights, its just who wants a legal battle over your kids. He doesn't want to put them through that.

 

I understand all of you. Perhaps, I am not being understanding enough of what it feels like to be in her shoes. Maybe it is too much to expect at this point that she would offer to be gracious about the kids or that she could really offer him a choice. Perhaps she is doing what she feels is right to protect her family. I was just hoping he would have the space to make an honest choice and then we could all move forward.

 

I also feel that until he makes peace with how this will affect his children he needs to stay. Another reason for me to step out of this picture. We have tried so many times to let go of each other, and miss each other so much that we end up talking again. But maybe its not fair to even talk to each other as we have these last number of months.

 

I just need to step away and let them deal with this.

 

 

If he is trying to make an honest choice, his only hope is to have someone who is honest make it for him. I think she ought to be as gracious as she deems necessary to deal with him or you. At this point her choices come in to play in response to all the crap that has been heaped in her life. I say deal with what was thrown out there.

[heartinlove]

thanks Miss Bee. You always give great advice.

 

For those of you who the story doesn't make sense. I was trying to be concise. There has been alot thats happened in the last month and was just trying to describe the basic flow of events, and Im aware this is the internet, so I don't include alot of specifics.

[heartinlove]

If he is trying to make an honest choice, his only hope is to have someone who is honest make it for him. I think she ought to be as gracious as she deems necessary to deal with him or you. At this point her choices come in to play in response to all the crap that has been heaped in her life. I say deal with what was thrown out there.

 

I think that is valid feedback. We all do the best we can and matters of the heart are not always easy or clear. Im not an advocate for having an affair or lying but see how these situations are very difficult to navigate. He did ultimately tell her the truth which is to be commended. Also, he told her of the affair himself, and that is pretty rare in these situations. It was not because he was discovered. This is also the first time he's had an affair as I. We both agree we could have handled it all differently. Where he did not tell the truth initially, he believed he was protecting his wife while he sorted this all out within himself.

[bentnotbroken]

I think that is valid feedback. We all do the best we can and matters of the heart are not always easy or clear. Im not an advocate for having an affair or lying but see how these situations are very difficult to navigate. He did ultimately tell her the truth which is to be commended. Also, he told her of the affair himself, and that is pretty rare in these situations. It was not because he was discovered. This is also the first time he's had an affair as I. We both agree we could have handled it all differently. Where he did not tell the truth initially, he believed he was protecting his wife while he sorted this all out within himself.

If he is still waffling about staying for the kids he is still un-sorted. We will disagree that we all do the best we can with matters of the heart.

[wannabdone]

This is a hard situation.

 

I feel sorry for everyone here. I feel sorry for the W, because she is obviously hurt and doesn't want her M and family to break up. Sorry for him because it is hard to get put in a position that someone is making it so hard, and no one wants to hurt their kids, and sorry for you because you have having to go through this back and forth stuff.

 

I think a lot of people stay for the kids. I think a lot of people stay for finances, there are many reasons why someone stays. But, the fact of the matter is that no matter what the reasons, he is staying. You not talking to him or talking to him isn't going to change his love for you. I would think it might be benefical to just tell him that you love him, but until he can figure this all out, then you need to go. I know that is hard, trust me....but he's got something to work out and some decisions to make.

[stillafool]

He's lying to you and talking out both sides of his ass.

 

 

 

He either forgot he lied to you and told another lie, or he's made this up. Something is not right, the way he is describing her reaction and then reaction again a few days later.

 

Something is so off with what is truly going on, sorry, but don't get your hopes up..Whatever his reason is for staying is valid enough to him, like it or not. He may be telling you it's staying for his kids, but there is more.

 

 

I think he is lying as well. Unless you have heard it from his wife's mouth the story just doesn't sound right. If he is staying just for the kids then she should be aware that he will be in contact with you. Otherwise he will eventually go back to his old ways (staying with wife and kids and having you on the side) as soon as things calm down.

[woinlove]

heartinlove, I think it is very difficult to be so intimately involved in the possible ending of other people's marriage, even if you are yourself intimately involved with one of them. Getting into all the he said, she said, and the daily rollercoaster involving other people, seems like a really bad way to begin your own open R with one of those people.

 

I had a MM leave his marriage, despite my objections, and although we did remain in some contact, we never discussed any conversations between him and his W. We never went beyond the generic "I'm having a bad day at home". I didn't want to get involved and he respected that. He was actually a rather selfish man (and I was selfish too) but he was respectful enough not to drag me through the end of his M. [i left MM when he divorced, but that is beside the point here.]

 

Do you really want to continue involving yourself so intimately in MM's marriage? If you two end up together, this will be part of your combined story. Ending a M, particularly one where there was such deception and betrayal is a sad, painful story. Why not trust MM to do whatever he will do and, if he does leave, you can begin the next chapter of your own story together, which hopefully will be less sad and painful.

[wannabdone]

I think he is lying as well. Unless you have heard it from his wife's mouth the story just doesn't sound right. If he is staying just for the kids then she should be aware that he will be in contact with you. Otherwise he will eventually go back to his old ways (staying with wife and kids and having you on the side) as soon as things calm down.

 

 

You mean you think he is lying about his wife at first wanting him to stay, and then telling him okay, then all of a sudden wanting him to stay and saying she would make it difficult and start in on ruining the kids lives, etc? Just wanted to make sure this is what you thought he was lying about.

 

If so, I dunno, I can see that. If people want something (ie H staying) they will go to any lengths to get it. Manipulate and use which ever actions they feel that will benefit him. She apparently had tried the "no I love you, please stay" with him and it didn't work. So, she tried another avenue, of "okay, I'll let you go, I'll play nice", seeing if that would give her the answer she wanted. When it didn't, she was pissed, and the fangs came out, but still wanting him to stay. So this was "I will ruin you, if you don't stay, I will make sure kids hate you, etc."..... I think its common for people to use different tactics to get the goal that they are trying to obtain.

 

A lot of times people will put unrealistic expectations on people to gain what they want. IE... I want X amount of $, or you can leave, but you have X amount of days to get out. All as kind of a scare tactic, if you will, to show the SO how difficult they will make it. If the SO can't live up to the unrealistic expectations, they feel like they failed in a sense, and then another tactic will be used to gain what that person is trying to accomplish. Its pretty typical in human behavior.

 

Unless, I'm totally off base of what you said he was lying about.

 

But on a side note, we should NEVER believe the story in its entirety by anyone. Not the MM or BS. Because everyone when given their story for the most part, has their own agenda at hand.

[heartinlove]

You mean you think he is lying about his wife at first wanting him to stay, and then telling him okay, then all of a sudden wanting him to stay and saying she would make it difficult and start in on ruining the kids lives, etc? Just wanted to make sure this is what you thought he was lying about.

 

If so, I dunno, I can see that. If people want something (ie H staying) they will go to any lengths to get it. Manipulate and use which ever actions they feel that will benefit him. She apparently had tried the "no I love you, please stay" with him and it didn't work. So, she tried another avenue, of "okay, I'll let you go, I'll play nice", seeing if that would give her the answer she wanted. When it didn't, she was pissed, and the fangs came out, but still wanting him to stay. So this was "I will ruin you, if you don't stay, I will make sure kids hate you, etc."..... I think its common for people to use different tactics to get the goal that they are trying to obtain.

 

A lot of times people will put unrealistic expectations on people to gain what they want. IE... I want X amount of $, or you can leave, but you have X amount of days to get out. All as kind of a scare tactic, if you will, to show the SO how difficult they will make it. If the SO can't live up to the unrealistic expectations, they feel like they failed in a sense, and then another tactic will be used to gain what that person is trying to accomplish. Its pretty typical in human behavior.

 

Unless, I'm totally off base of what you said he was lying about.

 

But on a side note, we should NEVER believe the story in its entirety by anyone. Not the MM or BS. Because everyone when given their story for the most part, has their own agenda at hand.

 

you said that really well and better than I communicated it. Its basically how its happened.

[heartinlove]

heartinlove, I think it is very difficult to be so intimately involved in the possible ending of other people's marriage, even if you are yourself intimately involved with one of them. Getting into all the he said, she said, and the daily rollercoaster involving other people, seems like a really bad way to begin your own open R with one of those people.

 

I had a MM leave his marriage, despite my objections, and although we did remain in some contact, we never discussed any conversations between him and his W. We never went beyond the generic "I'm having a bad day at home". I didn't want to get involved and he respected that. He was actually a rather selfish man (and I was selfish too) but he was respectful enough not to drag me through the end of his M. [i left MM when he divorced, but that is beside the point here.]

 

Do you really want to continue involving yourself so intimately in MM's marriage? If you two end up together, this will be part of your combined story. Ending a M, particularly one where there was such deception and betrayal is a sad, painful story. Why not trust MM to do whatever he will do and, if he does leave, you can begin the next chapter of your own story together, which hopefully will be less sad and painful.

 

You also said that really well and it is basically the decision I have come to. I do feel the right thing for me to do at this point for everyone is to step out of the picture and let this play out however it is meant to play out. Anything other than that is not really fair to her either. And whatever he ultimately chooses at this point, he needs to come to on his own, and I need to know he came to it on his own and that he believes its the best decision for everyone. I really see so clearly now that I need to stop being involved. I have seen that in the past and not stayed strong, but this time I will be strong for everyone. I really am getting right now that sometimes loving someone truly means letting them go.

[FelicityShot]

Once an A is in place, there are only a series of wrong answers as options.

 

Well, also before the A, so don't beat yourself up.

 

I have no advice. People outside of your control are having a big say in your life - and those people won't even be equipped to make good decisions. If they were, the A wouldn't have happened.

 

I can recommend trying to surface from the sh*t the A has caused/been a symptom of. For you. And your AP should they care to take that route.

[fooled once]

 

Maybe MM's wife is also just dealing with the reality of what divorce means in their situation. No manipulation. Just reality. And just because that reality doesn't line up with the fantasy, idealized scenario you and he would like to happen that doesn't mean the wife is being manipulative.

 

agree

 

He's full of shyte.

 

His W CANNOT move his children far away once a D is filed. The court either has a standing order or your MM can file one that PREVENTS his W from moving anywhere (with the kids anyway). Complete and utter bullshyte. I mean really, do these MM really think they are the first to have an A and have an angry spouse threaten this? That judges haven't seen this 1000 times before. That the judges are just powerless to stop it? Gimme a break.

 

The first thing your MM NEEDS to do is hire a lawyer and file for D. The act of filing for D affords him MANY legal protections (aforementioned standing orders, precludes any abandonment filings, financial protections, etc).

 

So MY first question is ...why hasn't he hired a lawyer and filed for D? He needs to do this ASAP.

 

I'm also guessing you don't have to sneak around anymore right? He's free to spend as many nights at your place as he wants...right?

 

This sounds like another long on words (and words not spoken in your presence) and actions. I mean, forget his BS who doesn't have as much legal power as anyone thinks, given all he has said why hasn't he 1) moved out and 2) filed for D?

 

Its amazing how these MM can't file for D (which can be withdrawn you know) or hire a lawyer and ask what protections can be put in place to prevent this.

 

As far as his W "turning the kids" against him. Not likely.

 

What's stopping him from getting his D and then having himself and his kids attend therapy sessions? To help them recover from D, counter the W's actions, and gradually introduce you as step-mommy? In fact, he can have his D specifically worded to allow for therapy with his kids no matter which parent has custody. See, like magic his problems go away with a lawyer and filing for D.

 

His FIRST move Monday morning is hiring a lawyer and filing for D.

I think a GREAT many of his fears can be alleviated.

 

totally agree

 

Thanks for the feedback.

 

He has told his wife that he is in contact with me. She is aware that he has been talking to me as well as he makes his decision. He finally worked up the courage to tell her the truth about everything.

 

He is being honest with me about how everything has unfolded.

 

I do believe I should step away and let them work it out whatever the outcome. There are no plans for he and I to stay in contact if he stays in the marriage. We have said that we would not be in contact if he stays.

 

I just felt it was a bit of a set up to say he had a choice, and then once he said he chose to leave, to then imply that she would make it difficult in relation to the children. And yes, he has legal rights, its just who wants a legal battle over your kids. He doesn't want to put them through that.

 

I understand all of you. Perhaps, I am not being understanding enough of what it feels like to be in her shoes. Maybe it is too much to expect at this point that she would offer to be gracious about the kids or that she could really offer him a choice. Perhaps she is doing what she feels is right to protect her family. I was just hoping he would have the space to make an honest choice and then we could all move forward.

 

I also feel that until he makes peace with how this will affect his children he needs to stay. Another reason for me to step out of this picture. We have tried so many times to let go of each other, and miss each other so much that we end up talking again. But maybe its not fair to even talk to each other as we have these last number of months.

 

I just need to step away and let them deal with this.

 

Again, you are believing his words. Has his wife called you? Does he call his wife in front of you and tell her he is with you?

 

Do you two expect her to just lay down and say "let me rearrange MY life for you two since you are so in love?" Don't you think she has put up with enough of YOU TWO deciding how HER life should be?

 

Why oh why are these cheating parents suddenly so concerned for their kids when the word DIVORCE is thrown out? Where was his concern while he was in the affair with you? How many times did he miss out on helping with homework, baths, bedtime, etc because he was off having sex with you? How is he being a dad when he is constantly texting or calling you instead of paying attention to his children?

 

Maybe just maybe by getting a divorce he will actually be a BETTER father; that he will actually spend MORE time with them when he has them for visitation? Because no matter what baloney he tells you, he has rights as a father. He can stop her from moving UNLESS she convinces a judge she MUST move and PROVE she can only find work in another location. It irritates me so dang much when these cheating parents use their children as an excuse. He didn't give a darn about his kids when he was in the affair; now why is there concern for them??????

 

Is he finally realizing how much child support he will have to pay? Is that the concern? That's the concern for a lot of me

 

Why would your affair stop now? I mean, the marriage didn't stop the affair prior to the alleged "I want to leave" conversation. You two have carried on for how long? So why stop now? If she knows, and is okay with it, why end things? I mean, you guys are in love right? You fell in love while he was married, why can't you stay in love and continue the affair?

 

I am always stunned at how the affair partner gets all pissy about the betrayed spouse's reaction and the fact that the betrayed spouse doesn't lay down and get walked all over. WHERE was his concern for HIS CHILDREN when he was having an affair?????

[mzdolphin]

Unless he provides videotape or you were able to listen in on these conversations, I wouldn't believe a thing he is saying. You already know he's a liar and a cheat.

 

When I confronted my exMM who said he was divorced, he said he had filed for divorce but she would grant it. Said she said she would never give him a divorce. I demanded papers. I wanted to see divorce papers he filed. He could not produce any. Then the story changed to she said she'd never give me a divorce so I don't see why I should file, Ive moved out, blah blah blah.

 

The point is, once you catch them in multiple lies, you can't trust them.

 

Run like hell from this guy.