Not interested in a relationship (right now) but don't want to deceive - Any options?

[snowflakes88]

I'm just very annoyed because usually, I can figure stuff like this out. Maybe the biggest tip-off was that he only wanted to hang out in groups, while drinking, last minute?

 

Again, the first tip off was that you had to chase him down and beg for the first date, rather than him asking you out and planning it. Most women would have figured out then that he wasn't that interested. Your standards are way too low, and you are extremely naive. Men hold hands, hug, kiss, and even have what might seem like "romantic" sex with women they don't give two craps about at the end of the day. That's why you should be paying less attention to meaningless things, like how long he looked at you or how he touched your hair - and more attention to the important things, like whether he is initiating contact, genuinely trying to get to know you, asking you out, integrating you into his life, telling you what his intentions are with you. This guy never even told you he liked you or wanted to date you. If you'd paid attention to the important things, you would have had your answer months ago.

 

Really, how long do you intend to continue rehashing this? More months? Another year?

[snowflakes88]

Unfortunately, you're not going to know what to look for in future men because you make an excuse at every turn for this one to avoid seeing it for what it was. "I think he was really interested, but ______." "I think he really wanted me to be his girlfriend, except _________." You are really quite out of touch with reality.

 

This is going to be my last post on the subject. There have been probably close to a hundred people, if not more, who have tried to give you advice on this situation over the past few months. No matter how many times you posted about this, no matter how many new messageboards you found because you didn't like the answers you got on the old one, no matter how many people you asked - the unanimous consensus was that this man simply was not that interested in you. It's no coincidence that every. single. person. you've told the details of this story to (minus these "real life friends" you mention) has the same opinion - yet you still can't come to terms with it.

 

I would honestly not be surprised if a couple of years go by and you're still posting about this, while he's off somewhere happily married with a kid.

[snowflakes88]

Back off, yes. Reject all of your invitations, refuse to accept your calls, and drop off the face of the earth? No. Again, as numerous people have said already, he might distance himself if that was the true issue - but he would still be in touch with you, just taking things slowly. And interesting that he wasn't worried about being a rebound when he thought you would sleep with him no strings attached.

[Red Arremer]

ok, time to be consistent Woggle.

 

It is ok for above guy to go after casual, non-relationship sex but not Verhzn?

I just found her thread and went through the beginning and end of it (it's long okay?). I kind of wonder how many other people who are socially awkward and nerdy and slightly pudgy have the problems I have. I'm guessing... somewhere between all of them, and all of them.

[Red Arremer]

1) Spend a lot of time at clubs, where you are being bombarded by awful music and competing with the experienced players.

2) Join a normal dating site, check the "casual sex" box. Be instantly blocked forever by 99% of the women on the site, essentially destroying any chance of ever eventually finding a relationship there.

3) Join an adult dating site, and spend $30 a month to be advertised to by spambots and escorts.

To relate things back to the first post, I am getting increasingly frustrated with the second option. It seems as though there are very, very few women on OLD who are open to a FWB-type situation (crazy, right? I know!!), and of the 5-10% of them who are even passingly attractive (my standards of attractiveness aren't that high, I am well aware of my current situation, but I *do* still have standards...), I have pretty much already tried and been rejected by all of them. So, ugh.

[Cypress25]

It seems as though there are very, very few women on OLD who are open to a FWB-type situation (crazy, right? I know!!)

 

I'm glad you can have a sense of humor about it, because a degree of self-awareness is crucial here. You want something that most women do not want. I'm sure there are a few, but they're in the minority and hard to find. You can't really complain, as you probably understand why most women don't want to be used for sex. If you really want this, feel free to continue searching, but it might be a struggle.

[Red Arremer]

If both people are honest with each other and are aware of their situation, no one is really "using" anyone.

 

And even if that does qualify as being "used," I am perfectly fine with the woman using me for sex in that situation as well so I don't see the problem there.

[Eddie Edirol]

If both people are honest with each other and are aware of their situation, no one is really "using" anyone.

 

And even if that does qualify as being "used," I am perfectly fine with the woman using me for sex in that situation as well so I don't see the problem there.

 

You never really said why you didnt want a relationship.

 

If you really just want no strings attached sex, you can look up "PUA techniques". Those are geared towards easy sex by learning game. But it can be sort of manipulative. If youre up front about not wanting anything serious, you can do it guilt free. Keep in mind, you have to work alot harder if youre not a 10/10. Most women want to be attached to someone theyre having sex with, so you have to probably find one good friend with benefits and stick with her. Ive used the PUA techniques, they really work, and you can use them to your own degree of what youre comfortable.

[grkBoy]

So... any advice? I'm sort of at a loss here. Also keep in mind that I am in a place where prostitution is neither legal nor regulated, so that is unfortunately not an option either. If it was legal and there were good regulations in place to keep things relatively clean and safe, I would be more than okay with it. But it's not, so...

 

Get some game or hire escorts.

 

Go to Las Vegas...it's legal there.

 

 

I'm sorry...there isn't much of an "easy" and "risk-free" way for someone to get laid easily. Women might love sex, but they're not just going to run to the guy who has nothing to set their panties on fire with and lay him.

 

There's nothing wrong with not wanting a RL, but you should make that clear early on to any girl you date.

 

I just think if you're not good looking, not exciting, and have no game...then you're screwed.

[FitChick]

Join the Ashley Madison dating website. It is only for people looking for affairs.

[Red Arremer]

If you really just want no strings attached sex, you can look up "PUA techniques". Those are geared towards easy sex by learning game. But it can be sort of manipulative.

Not interested in a relationship (right now) but don't want to deceive - Any options?

So yeah, thanks but no thanks.

 

Keep in mind, you have to work alot harder if youre not a 10/10.

I'm fully aware of this too. I think I've actually talked about this in other threads at some point - I know it would be infinitely easier for me if I was hot, and I'm not exactly a hunchback or anything so I could get there with work, but it would be a LOT of work. And I really don't give a rat's ass about how I look aside from the fact that I want to be hot so that I can get women, so there's not much in the way of motivation there. "You have to do it for yourself" and all.

 

I'm not kidding either, if it weren't for women I'd probably have a 40-inch waist and a beard halfway down to my chest.

 

 

edit: I've always heard that Ashley Madison was, like FitChick said, only for people looking for affairs, which would disqualify me since I'm not (no relationship/marriage to have an affair out of). Am I wrong about that?

[Red Arremer]

Okay, so that post actually gets to another problem I feel like I have. I have absolutely no self-focused motivation for getting fit or even just working out, like at all. I wouldn't mind being fit so that other people think I'm hot, but that's basically it, so that other people think I'm hot. I don't really particularly care what I look like just so long as I don't have to go out and buy bigger clothes because buying clothes is a pain in the ass, and I don't really care about being in shape beyond just the simple level of being able to walk and climb stairs without losing my breath, which I can. I don't enjoy playing sports, I don't enjoy lifting weights, I'm not a big fan of the outdoors, and I *loathe* running. What the hell is wrong with me?

[Red Arremer]

Ah what the hell, let's triple post.

You never really said why you didnt want a relationship.

It's kind of complicated, but at the core of it I don't really do the whole "emotional connection" thing. Though my whole life I can't really say I've ever "loved" anyone, and that includes my parents. Even when I'm saying "I love you" to my mom on the phone at the end of a conversation, it just feels so... forced, and weird. But, I'm a human, and I have needs, and I would like to have those needs met.

 

The whole "not wanting to deceive" thing comes from the last "relationship" I was in, where the girl was clearly (somehow) very, very, very head over heels for me, and I... well I kind of didn't feel anything. But I let it go for way longer than I should have, and when she finally caught on that I felt the way I did it was really messy. She felt like ****, which made me feel like ****, and I'd really rather not do that again. So from now on I feel like I need to be more upfront about this sort of thing.

 

 

This all may or may not have anything to do with my issues with autism as a child I posted about a while ago. I'm not really sure.

Edited September 23, 2011 by Red Arremer

[Eddie Edirol]

Since you dont want to make yourself fit (lazy), you will have to go to PUA techniques. Youre going to wind up doing this anyway through trial and error on your own, so you might as well avoid wasting years learning it, and just look it up. You dont have to decieve when you do it, but its the only way you will get what you want. otherwise, you will be forever stuck the way you are. If you dont want to make yourself look good for women, you have to do it with personality, and that takes work and research.

[Cypress25]

It's kind of complicated, but at the core of it I don't really do the whole "emotional connection" thing.

 

Do you have friends? Is there anyone you feel close to (not necessarily in a romantic sense)?

[Red Arremer]

Do you have friends?

Yeah, not many, but I do. Most of my friends I've met through specific activities and we don't really do much outside of those specific activities, but there are a few that go beyond that.

 

Is there anyone you feel close to (not necessarily in a romantic sense)?

My best friend from college is like that. Our friendship took a long time (on the order of years, really) to get to that point, but there's one at least. Of course, we're on opposite sides of the country right now.

 

Aside from that, I would have to say there isn't.

[Nexus One]

Check it out, Nexus thinks I'm a whore! It's great.

 

Nexus thinks everyone is a whore.

 

I never ever called anyone a whore. That being said, it's really f*cking coincidental that two women who say it's ok to sleep around with other guys while dating a relationship oriented guy would make sh*t up about me calling someone a whore.

 

I don't think either of you is a whore or a slut. I do think you both got hit in the head with something and aren't thinking clearly.

 

You women can stand in line behind Disenchantedly Yours and compete for who is best at making sh*t up about what I said.

Edited September 24, 2011 by Nexus One

[FitChick]

This all may or may not have anything to do with my issues with autism as a child I posted about a while ago. I'm not really sure.

 

I've just solved your problem!

[ThsAmericanLife]

Ah what the hell, let's triple post.

 

It's kind of complicated, but at the core of it I don't really do the whole "emotional connection" thing. Though my whole life I can't really say I've ever "loved" anyone, and that includes my parents. Even when I'm saying "I love you" to my mom on the phone at the end of a conversation, it just feels so... forced, and weird. But, I'm a human, and I have needs, and I would like to have those needs met.

 

The whole "not wanting to deceive" thing comes from the last "relationship" I was in, where the girl was clearly (somehow) very, very, very head over heels for me, and I... well I kind of didn't feel anything. But I let it go for way longer than I should have, and when she finally caught on that I felt the way I did it was really messy. She felt like ****, which made me feel like ****, and I'd really rather not do that again. So from now on I feel like I need to be more upfront about this sort of thing.

 

 

This all may or may not have anything to do with my issues with autism as a child I posted about a while ago. I'm not really sure.

 

I really think you need to hit the websites like "Lavalife"

 

http://www.lavalife.com/?locale=en_US&a=33392&refcd=GO314073901s_lavalife&tsacr=GO2536898211&gclid=CJusyJT3tKsCFQ0CQAodo2x1fQ#

 

Stay off the 'dating' sites unless you are ok putting down 'casual sex'.

 

Otherwise, there are plenty of places to go for casual sex where you won't have to waste your time with PUA 'tricks' and make things tough for either men or women looking for legitimate relationships.

 

The reason why some men do the PUA thing is because they enjoy being manipulative and they deceive themselves into believing that the women they scam somehow deserve it.

 

Most would agree (even the reformed PUAs) that very few come of it a better person should you decide someday to have a 'real' relationship. In other words, not a good habit to develop for your inner self. You don't need a PUA book to tell you to lose weight, learn some conversational skills, and find some interesting hobbies. It really isn't any more complicated than that.

 

Another idea might be to scour the web for 'swinger's clubs'. If you are reasonably well-endowed and have some good endurance, you should easily be able to hook up that way too.

[ThsAmericanLife]

I've just solved your problem!

 

That's awesome FitChick!! Great advice...

[Cypress25]

I never ever called anyone a whore.

 

I didn't say you called anyone a whore. I said you think everyone is a whore. Big difference.

 

That being said, it's really f*cking coincidental that two women who say it's ok to sleep around with other guys while dating a relationship oriented guy would make sh*t up about me calling someone a whore.

 

I also never said it's OK to sleep around with other guys while dating a relationship oriented guy. I said it's OK to date several guys in the early stages, when no one is committed to anyone. Dating does not equal sleeping around. I don't sleep with anyone unless we're in a monogamous relationship.

[ThsAmericanLife]

I can tell u firsthand that NOT everyone who only wants a FWB situation makes it known up front. There might be several romantic dates before you get the late night call to come over and then discover you've been used... because once you don't put out, you're kicked to the curb. That's the real world.

 

You are absolutely right...

 

One way to avoid guys like this are to hold out well past the 'magical' 3rd date.... and look for other cues that he really is investing in you.

 

I say 'hold out'... but what I really mean is spend enough time getting to know him so that you can be assured he is telling the truth about wanting a relationship.

 

IMHO, A good guy who has serious intentions about being in a healthy relationship will realize he has something to lose by rushing things, and will use his own discretion too. It should be mutual.

[ThsAmericanLife]

I didn't say you called anyone a whore. I said you think everyone is a whore. Big difference.

 

 

 

I also never said it's OK to sleep around with other guys while dating a relationship oriented guy. I said it's OK to date several guys in the early stages, when no one is committed to anyone. Dating does not equal sleeping around. I don't sleep with anyone unless we're in a monogamous relationship.

 

How long would you 'date' several guys?

 

I've read all the prior posts... I think Nexus and I are on the same page that 'dating' which includes physical intimacy with numerous people might as well be f*ing.

 

It is for me. I dump guys if they are dating multiple women past a few get togethers... and even then, I'm not thrilled about it. So many of them continue to do it though, because they believe all the women are doing it too. They have a hard time believing ME because of other women who multi-date and it sucks.

 

I see no valid reason to juggle multiple people simultaneously under any conditions. Go out on a few dates. Decide. Stay with them, or move on. Date next guy, stay with them or move on.... repeat process until you find desired relationship. Not that complicated.

 

As most know, I really detest 'multi-dating' and feel that practice has made things difficult for people who legitimately want to focus on someone and get to know them... not spread themselves around looking for attention.

 

It is equally obnoxious in either gender.

[Cypress25]

How long would you 'date' several guys?

 

Truthfully, I've never done it. I prefer to date one guy at a time and hope it leads to a relationship, but I have no right to expect the same from the guys I'm dating. If they want to multi-date, they're allowed. That's why I limit physical intimacy in the early stages, because I don't know how many other girls he's dating.

 

I dump guys if they are dating multiple women past a few get togethers

 

You expect exclusivity very early, then. I don't. I wouldn't want to rush anyone into a relationship. I think it's fine to give each other time before demanding exclusivity from them. Even if I'm not dating anyone else, I can't expect the same from a guy I've only been on a few dates with. I don't own him yet and I have no right to make demands on him at that early stage. And he has no right to make demands on me either. If you want exclusivity, ask for it. Don't just expect it. Not everyone is on the same timeline.

 

Go out on a few dates. Decide. Stay with them, or move on. Date next guy, stay with them or move on.... repeat process until you find desired relationship. Not that complicated.

 

That's how I like to do it, but not everyone likes to do it that way. People have different dating styles. I have no right to tell other people how they should go about dating. If you're single and you like to multi-date, you're allowed to do it. I respect other people too much to say "This is how I date, therefore this is how you should date too." If you're not in a relationship, then you're not obligated to be monogamous. You can if you want to, of course, but you don't owe it to anyone and no one owes it to you. If you want monogamy, then discuss it with your partner.

 

I see no valid reason to juggle multiple people simultaneously under any conditions.

 

Dating is full of uncertainty. Suppose I go on a date with guy #1. I really like him and I have a great time. But after the date, I never hear from him again. So I assume he's not interested. Two weeks later, guy #2 asks me out. I'm not dating anyone so I say yes. I enjoy our date but I don't like him as much as the first guy. Three days later, guy #1 shows up and asks me out for a second date. A pleasant surprise, I thought he wasn't interested. So I go out with guy #1 again.

 

Now, according to you and Nexus, that's wrong of me because I'm dating 2 guys at once and they sort of overlapped. But there was a bit of confusion because I didn't realize that I was still dating guy #1 when I went out with guy #2. You'd say I was juggling, but it wasn't my intention to juggle. I never know if a first date is going to lead to a second date. After just one date, maybe we're still dating, maybe we're not. Maybe the guy is planning to ask me out again, or maybe he's already moved on. It's kind of ridiculous to expect monogamy after just one date.

 

I really detest 'multi-dating' and feel that practice has made things difficult for people who legitimately want to focus on someone and get to know them... not spread themselves around looking for attention.

 

If someone was dating 5 people at once, then I'd say they're spreading themselves around looking for attention. But if they're dating 2 people, then I'd say they're focusing on 2 people, trying to get to know them, so they can decide which one they're more compatible with. I don't mean dating 2 people in one night, of course. And I don't mean continuing to date 2 people for several months. But life doesn't always present opportunities one at a time. If you happen to meet 2 great people around the same time, you can't really tell one of them to wait while you get to know the other one.

[Floridaman]

Originally Posted by ls333

I can tell u firsthand that NOT everyone who only wants a FWB situation makes it known up front. There might be several romantic dates before you get the late night call to come over and then discover you've been used... because once you don't put out, you're kicked to the curb. That's the real world.

 

You are absolutely right...

 

One way to avoid guys like this are to hold out well past the 'magical' 3rd date.... and look for other cues that he really is investing in you.

 

I say 'hold out'... but what I really mean is spend enough time getting to know him so that you can be assured he is telling the truth about wanting a relationship.

That's what's dating is for.

The "must have sex by third date" "rule" is garbage.

Recently asked my wife what she would have thought/ done had I tried that rule with her.

Told me we wouldn't be dating anymore had I pulled something stupid like that.

IMHO, A good guy who has serious intentions about being in a healthy relationship will realize he has something to lose by rushing things, and will use his own discretion too. It should be mutual.

Spot-on.

Like I posted in the other thread, I didn't rush things bec. I had in the past with at least 2 women and it ruined what could have been a great relationship.

 

The first was something as innocent as putting my arm around a woman on first date at a movie theatre. The look she gave me and would never return my calls when I wanted a second date...

 

The other involved pressing for and getting sex on first date... or first meeting... bad idea. (We lived in same apt. complex, didn't ever go on a "real" date).

Though she wanted me to call on her again, and wrote a tearful letter (in 1988) wondering why I wasn't interested anymore, I think her giving-in so soon turned me off toward her....

 

Ran into her a year later. She confided it was the sexiest night she ever had....

I vividly remember that evening (as I do with most of my sexual experiences)... what I did, how she responded, etc.

God... why can't I erase that memory????

 

It was okay and I got some sexual satisfaction.

She asked me to do oral before I climbed aboard....

Had never given a woman oral (nor ever heard of it, TBH), so I learned some things about women and sex.

 

That was 1 of only 2 sexual encounters I had from 19-30, so as a lonely guy, was sex- and relationship-starved but immediately after releasing into her ... felt funny about her.

 

Remember her telling me I "didn't need to wear a condom" and could do like her EX did, just "pull out" shortly before I released..... Glad I used one as I usually didn't last that long... and likely wouldn't have pulled-out in time...

 

So great a guy I was, I got up immediately after completion and left.

 

I blame myself for ruining that relationship -- not her.

During that meeting with her, she confessed that having sex with me "wasn't such a great (moral) thing to do as a Christian woman...."

A Christian, I couldn't find a decent Christian woman if it killed me.

I didn't know she was a Christian !!!!

 

God... what a great thing to have on my conscious !!!! Taking advantage of a woman like that for my sexual lusts !!!!

Another reason not to rush sex ---

we hardly knew each other before we had sex !!!!!

 

God... just realized...

She might have been "the one" for me... (at that time)

 

Was looking for a wife and life-mate then, at 25-26, but

look how I ruined things so being focused (that one brief time) on getting sexual satisfaction...

I saw all these others have sex and relationships, and I couldn't get out of the parkin' lot....

 

She wanted to date me... yet I turned away from her....

How stupid was that???

 

Can't tell you how much I've tried to find her name online and contact her and apologize for being so blind and how rude I was to her...

But her name is similar to a celebrity and unless I want to search through 1,0000s of pages of results.... Plus she may have married... I don't live in the same state now...

 

I really changed in my late 20s and did some things I'm not proud of, not necessarily sexual things (like forgetting to show up for a 1-day moving job like I'd promised) and began fearing God had forgotten about me.

What good me being a gentleman to women did... Thinking of their needs first, not pressing for sex, etc....

They hardly noticed I was alive.

Started doing things FOR ME and MY BENEFIT... AND PLEASURE like that night with her...

 

FWIW, I never did the casual sex again...... and declined some offers some women made for me to come to their hotel room at night....

 

Sorry for the rant there, but wanted to give you a guy's perspective.

 

 

 

Dating's a pain. Women, it seemed to me, had all the power.

As a guy who wasn't so good at dating in his 20s, I didn't want to do ANYTHING that could turn a woman off or make her lose interest.

So had to keep the dates interesting and remain interested in her life and what she liked to talk about.

The "I'm too busy" to go out with you again or "I've lost interest" or "I don't want to be in a relationship" excuses were relationship-killers and something we guys were terrified of.

 

Pressing a woman for sex early could be one of those relationship-killers.

Edited September 24, 2011 by Floridaman