MW now widow, how to handle ?

[country_gurl]

I met a MW a year ago (nothing related to the xMW I was involved with).

 

So you seem to have a "thing" for other men's wives. You might want to seek some professional help to help you understand why this seems to be a trend for you.

 

 

We have been only friends but at the very beginning she has shown me lots of interest, asking about my life and e-mailing back and forth. She has been slightly flirty, making compliments and asking me for coffee dates etc but I kept it light and friendly. I have met her and her H who has not been very comfortable with our friendship

 

Well isn't she a doll. Having previously participated in a 'relationship' with you, despite her husband's discomfort, she obviously had no respect for him/his feelings or her marriage. Married people shouldn't be flirting with singles or inviting them out for coffee.

 

So now her poor husband passed away a month ago and you're just waiting in the wings, ready to swoop in and have some fun. The guy isn't even cold in the grave and you're wanting to make your move. You 2 are quite the pair. Hopefully he left her a huge insurance policy and she can really have made out like a bandit.

[Circular]

Easts own words on the matter.

 

 

It's funny how two people can read the same thing and walk away with different perspectives. You've never met flirty married people? I have met many of them, I've gone to coffee with them. It's about the parties enforcing boundaries. And 'not going there'. I don't see anywhere where she professed she wanted to have an A, or jump him, or whatever. Or is it that the husband didn't like the friendship? I don't know to many H's that easily accept their wives going to lunch/coffee with men. That's pretty normal also. There was no A so I don't see why you're so polarized to call her a cheater.

[Circular]

So you seem to have a "thing" for other men's wives. You might want to seek some professional help to help you understand why this seems to be a trend for you.

 

 

 

 

Well isn't she a doll. Having previously participated in a 'relationship' with you, despite her husband's discomfort, she obviously had no respect for him/his feelings or her marriage. Married people shouldn't be flirting with singles or inviting them out for coffee.

 

So now her poor husband passed away a month ago and you're just waiting in the wings, ready to swoop in and have some fun. The guy isn't even cold in the grave and you're wanting to make your move. You 2 are quite the pair. Hopefully he left her a huge insurance policy and she can really have made out like a bandit.

 

 

Where did you read she participated in a "relationship"?? I didn't see that in any of East's posts. By the way, I'm not denying here that she showed interest, it's stated quite clearly in East's post. I'm just trying to understand why you say she's a cheater when East says quite frankly that there was no cheating emotional or physical.

[carhill]

OP, do you mind progressing this for a few months without any sex or sexual intimacy? Remaining friendly but not sexual? You can laugh and joke and enjoy each others company without 'flirting' since you're friends, right? You can lay it out honestly and leave it on the table.

 

Only the deceased H and his W will know for sure what the boundaries in their M were regarding inappropriate behavior with others. If his W's flirting, even 'innocently', with other men was inappropriate, it was; if not, not. If she behaved with the OP differently within H's presence than out of it, behaving out of his presence in a manner he would have found inappropriate, that forms the basis of 'cheating', both because of the behavior *and* the feelings behind it. Was her behavior inappropriate? Unknown. The man who could decide that is dead.

 

OP, tell us about her female friends. I imagine they are very much in her life right now, even if not on a daily basis. What's your assessment of the dynamic?

[country_gurl]

Where did you read she participated in a "relationship"?? I didn't see that in any of East's posts. By the way, I'm not denying here that she showed interest, it's stated quite clearly in East's post. I'm just trying to understand why you say she's a cheater when East says quite frankly that there was no cheating emotional or physical.

 

Well a "friendship" is consider a relationship, is it not? the OP stated that her husband was no comfortable with their "friendship."

 

Perhaps you define "cheater" differently than I do. I define a cheater as someone who behaves in such a way, behind their spouse's/partner's back, that they KNOW would be hurtful to their spouse/partner.

 

The OP explained that she was "very flirty", giving him "compliments" and inviting him out for coffee. I'm guessing these are behaviors that she wouldn't have participated in, in the presence of her husband....that she did these things behind his back. So to me that's cheating. Intentionally crossing boundaries behind one's spouse's/partner's back. Add to that the fact that this woman's husband must have had good reason to be uncomfortable with their "friendship."

 

Respectful, honest, decent married people don't sneak around behind their spouse's back and flirt with/compliment/invite out for coffee, those of the opposite sex. It's not appropriate or respectful behavior.

[Circular]

Well a "friendship" is consider a relationship, is it not? the OP stated that her husband was no comfortable with their "friendship."

 

Perhaps you define "cheater" differently than I do. I define a cheater as someone who behaves in such a way, behind their spouse's/partner's back, that they KNOW would be hurtful to their spouse/partner.

 

The OP explained that she was "very flirty", giving him "compliments" and inviting him out for coffee. I'm guessing these are behaviors that she wouldn't have participated in, in the presence of her husband....that she did these things behind his back. So to me that's cheating. Intentionally crossing boundaries behind one's spouse's/partner's back. Add to that the fact that this woman's husband must have had good reason to be uncomfortable with their "friendship."

 

Respectful, honest, decent married people don't sneak around behind their spouse's back and flirt with/compliment/invite out for coffee, those of the opposite sex. It's not appropriate or respectful behavior.

 

Why do you put friendship in quotes? I don't see anything in East posts that infers obfuscation of the term. You are inferring and therefore trying to push your bias by placing quotes around it.

 

As well without further clarification from East we don't even know what "The H was uncomfortable with the friendship" actually means. Was he suspicious? Did he actually say "I'm uncomfortable and I forbade you from seeing him?", I think there are a few people who are creating their own facts to push their own personal bias and perceptions. Do you really know it was hurtful? Uncomfortable and hurtful aren't the same. My sister has to travel with men as part of her business, her husband isn't always comfortable with it because she has to have dinner with them, drinks, etc.. as part of the social aspect of her job. But he accepts it, he doesn't find it hurtful.

 

I definitely would like to hear more from East as to what he's going to do.

[East7]

Wowowow country_girl and kritismiles, why are you being so extremists honeys .

 

I met her at the moment I was terminating the A with my xMW. We were introduced by a female friend of mine. We didn't meet after this first introduction, just exhanging e-mails and IM once in a while. She was the one to initiate the communication. She didn't tell me she was married and she never talked about her H at our first exhcanges. I asked her if she had a BF, she felt very embarrassed then she dropped the fact she is married which made me back off for a while then we started talking again and keeping it light and friendly. Our conversations were mainly on intellectual basis, music, arts, whatever...She used to compliment me which of course was very pleasant to hear but never emotional things like 'I miss you-s or I love to talk to you-s' .

 

We met for a coffee during the day, then some weeks later she invited me at a party where I met her H. When I said her H didn't sound comfortable, that is my perception of this first encounter with him. Maybe because she has not a lot of male friends. I have met them as a couple again and he was cool, nothing awkward. On the other side she seemed pretty confident and comfortable to have her H and me around which made me think she has no intention of 'sneaking'. Knowing her a little better later, I don't think she would be the kind to have an A.

 

Like Circular said, she found my companionship pleasant and we both didn't have any inappropriate exchange. There is no reason why friendship between someone married and someone single should be suspicious each time. Eventhough I like her, the boundaries have been respected and that is the only thing that counts.

Edited September 23, 2011 by East7

[Circular]

East you are compounding it. She intitiated emails with you after your first meeting and just happened to neglect to tell you she was married?

 

Circular yes I know hoards of flirtatious married people. The thing is , they flirt as couples with other couples innocently in front of their spouse. Not one on one inviting to coffee dates.

 

East if you made a pass during her marriage would she have gone there?

 

 

I know a lot of people would let you slide by avoiding your original statement and allowing you to talk around it, unfortunately I'm not one of those types.

 

You very opinionatedly called the woman a "Cheater" on page 1 of the discussion. I challenged you on that as East I thought was quite clear that boundaries had been established and respected. Yet, for some reason you came back to again reinforce she was a cheater, I challenged you again and you still haven't established any grounds to call her a cheater. Do you know her? Were you there? It sounds from everything that East has said that she also observed and respected the boundaries.

 

Now, before you go and try to disprove me. If you are so certain she is a cheater why are you asking East if she "would go there" in your last post when you obviously believe she is a cheater already?? Which means you believe she would and did?

 

I just don't get people like you that fill in the blanks with their own biased fantasies and then blurt them out as if they were reality without all the facts.

[Circular]

shall we go in circles, Circular? East intimated that it did not go there because he did not allow it. Thus I consider her to be of the mindset of a cheater. East has had enough experience with this. He should run?

 

Do you think east should date this woman? Do you think it would be healthy for him after coming out of a long term affair with a married chick?

 

IT IS MY OPINION from his own comments that she would've cheated. She asked for email and phone on first intro and never mentioned a hubby at home till he asked.

 

Just because YOUR OPINION is that she WOULD HAVE cheated doesn't make her a cheater. That's my point, thank you for validating it.

 

Now, my opinion as to what East should do is up there on page #1, I made no judgments I gave my advice based on things I've read and personal experience.

 

I think you're quick to make her guilty of cheating, some people flirt to much, they get carried away and then catch themselves before anything really takes hold. They ensure their proper boundaries and things go back to normal. Is that person a cheater? I don't think so.

[Circular]

LOl yes yes you did circular. You outright judged another poster on this forum to be drive by and not have maturity because they felt he should not remain friends. People have different opinions. It does not make them lack maturity or dive by posters. That's some heavy duty frosting there.

 

 

So, I'm confused - Do you have such a hard time admitting you're blatantly wrong in calling her a cheater that you're resorting to changing the focus of the argument? Is that how I should interpret this?

 

Drive-by? Judgemental? really? it's a reference to a short bursty single line of text that lacks any context or explanation as to the relevance of the opinion...

 

immature, sure I think it's immature to give a one line opinion to someone seeking advice without context. Immature is a subjective term it's not black/white. Calling and labeling someone a 'cheater' is.

[Circular]

LOL you like to debate don't you? You like to be right? Ok dude you got it. The facts are she did not cheat. My perception from his description is she sure as heck would've. That is what I garner from his words. Cheating mentality even though she did not go there with HIM. He does not need someone who blurs the lines like that. Would you like it if your sig other was running around on coffee dates, getting phone numbers flirting and exchanging emails without even stating they are married? Not Kosher to me dude. I still say run.

 

Kiss a cow kiss a cow kiss a cow!

 

Oh yea, I love a good debate! And no, I don't have to be right, that's the purpose of a debate to begin with.

 

It's interesting, you say 'cheating mentally' are you talking about fantasizing? That seems like a very grey area. In my mind I've always seen cheating as having reciprocation. I'd actually be interested in how you see that exactly.

 

I suppose it depends on the value of the relationship to East, maybe he feels it's one of those rare connections, interests, etc... that makes it worth pursuing and exploring. Some chemistry is undeniable between people. If he found that it was and things started to become more serious I'd recommend couples counseling to discuss openly what things drove her to be flirty, or it could be through IC I suppose. I say this more so because the flirty people I've met in my life are usually looking for attention and validation, something they haven't been getting or are feeling unfulfilled for personal reasons. But I don't think she's a complete 'run away' loss because of what East describes as what happened.

[Gentlegirl]

Oh yea, I love a good debate! And no, I don't have to be right, that's the purpose of a debate to begin with.

 

It's interesting, you say 'cheating mentally' are you talking about fantasizing? That seems like a very grey area. In my mind I've always seen cheating as having reciprocation. I'd actually be interested in how you see that exactly.

 

I suppose it depends on the value of the relationship to East, maybe he feels it's one of those rare connections, interests, etc... that makes it worth pursuing and exploring. Some chemistry is undeniable between people. If he found that it was and things started to become more serious I'd recommend couples counseling to discuss openly what things drove her to be flirty, or it could be through IC I suppose. I say this more so because the flirty people I've met in my life are usually looking for attention and validation, something they haven't been getting or are feeling unfulfilled for personal reasons. But I don't think she's a complete 'run away' loss because of what East describes as what happened.

 

I don't know for sure and you don't know for sure but Kristi does... always.

 

Omnisicence belongs to her.

 

GG

[silktricks]

How long had you been friends prior to her husband's death? My hubby and I have had a few close friends who through the years have lost their mates. Two were women (one close to the age of your friend, one about 10 years older). Both of those women were involved in new relationships within 6 months to a year, but both of those women new relationships were with their former husbands best friend - they had known each other a long time and had a great deal of familiarity and shared experiences. Both of these relationships were apparently very successful, as both have now been married for a number of years.

 

We also have a friend who lost his wife who remarried within about 8 months. That one is not so successful.

[East7]

Circular, just ignore her.. I stated clearly that we hadn't an A not even EA. If making compliments is flirty and cheating, then everyone on Earth is a cheater .

[Circular]

Circular, just ignore her.. I stated clearly that we hadn't an A not even EA. If making compliments is flirty and cheating, then everyone on Earth is a cheater .

 

 

lol... if that were the case I wouldn't be able to keep up with all the posts!

[NoIDidn't]

Really??? I'd like to know where these statistics come from? I think it totally depends on the person and the relationship, level of love. No way would it only take two months after the DEATH of a spouse unless there was no love or friendship at all. East, I would wait at least 2 years and then (if you are still single) look her up and see how she is. Seriously... You said her marriage was good. So the grief will take a while... Unless you want to set yourself up for another heartache, run...

 

Please read the rest of a post before you respond with something that was not said.

 

I never said "only two months". What you read was "at least two months", in addition to finding out more about how long their relationship actual was including their dating period.

 

Google is a good place to start to find those stats. Also, its also in many books on the subject (Grief).

[Circular]

Please read the rest of a post before you respond with something that was not said.

 

I never said "only two months". What you read was "at least two months", in addition to finding out more about how long their relationship actual was including their dating period.

 

Google is a good place to start to find those stats. Also, its also in many books on the subject (Grief).

 

I've also read that the mourning period has also a lot to do with if the death was sudden or protracted, for example in the case of cancer. Sudden typically leaves a lot of unresolved closure issues where protracted a portion of grieving can be done concurrently.

[East7]

How long had you been friends prior to her husband's death? My hubby and I have had a few close friends who through the years have lost their mates. Two were women (one close to the age of your friend, one about 10 years older). Both of those women were involved in new relationships within 6 months to a year, but both of those women new relationships were with their former husbands best friend - they had known each other a long time and had a great deal of familiarity and shared experiences. Both of these relationships were apparently very successful, as both have now been married for a number of years.

 

I know her since 1 year. But we haven't communicated on regular basis, it has been more on and off like 2-3 months without talking, so nothing intense.

 

When I knew her, I knew perfectly how an A starts so I knew the distinction between "inappropriate exchange" and "friendly".

 

I have read that widows often rebound with their H best friend or their own friend. I think it is natural to human nature in this circumstance to consider someone that you appreciate and you have some familiarity.

 

What I can tell for sure is that she liked me with no intention of cheating. Married people can be attracted to someone else without necessarily cheating.

[NoIDidn't]

I've also read that the mourning period has also a lot to do with if the death was sudden or protracted, for example in the case of cancer. Sudden typically leaves a lot of unresolved closure issues where protracted a portion of grieving can be done concurrently.

 

The husband of a couple I used to perform with had a massive heart attack at home in bed with his W. That was four years ago. She still relives it even though she's since remarried.

 

I do agree with the nature of the death having to be taken into consideration. I think that's also covered in some of the literature I've read as well. But, of course, it always depends on the individual as well.

[Goldenspoon]

Question:

 

How did he die?

[East7]

It was an accident while he was far from home. She didn't see anything.

[NoIDidn't]

It was an accident while he was far from home. She didn't see anything.

 

That's horrible. A sudden and unexpected death is so confusing and disorienting for those left behind.

 

She definitely needs her friends and loved ones right now.

[Goldenspoon]

That's horrible. A sudden and unexpected death is so confusing and disorienting for those left behind.

 

She definitely needs her friends and loved ones right now.

 

Well, not him who's trying to score and get laid.

[Gentlegirl]

Well, not him who's trying to score and get laid.

 

I don'tremember reading that you wanted to score and get laid???

 

Did you really write that?

 

I can't imagine that you would.

 

Gentlegirl

[East7]

These are people that read what they want to read. I know that not only some LS posters but her actual family or friends will think that I am taking advantage of the situation and I am prepared to face that.

 

I said I find this woman amazing, she is a doll , a good match and a very good potential partner in the future. She has a lot of good qualities and I see her as a perfect R material. She likes me and I like her, I don't see what's wrong with that. We didn't do anything morally wrong in the past so we can build something from scratch.

 

I agree it is too soon but after grieving her loss, she deserves to move on with her life. People that love her wouldn't want to see her sad and lonely for the rest of her life.