Still hanging on...

[2sunny]

NOTHING about her actions is genuine - she's a user and a taker... she will find a new man to grub off of...

 

don't allow it to be you.

[reboot]

She's his wife, and she has rights. The house is half hers. Most things will be half hers, but since she hasn't worked much, the bills could wind up being all his. It isn't as easy to get rid of her as some of you are making it out to be. I agree he should probably start down that road, but it isn't going to be a joy ride.

[DepressedinDenver]

The faster he moves the better. If I would have pussyfooted around kicking my wife out I would have been paying for more than I did when I did kick her out since I payed for her phone plan and all the food. Its a tough road at first but way better in the long run.

Edited October 24, 2011 by DepressedinDenver

[Surfer203]

I know I need to get going on this stuff. She does have rights, I can't just kick her out or take everything - even though I wish I could. Whatever happens for my own sanity, I need to get a divorce asap. I can't deal with this anymore.

 

She sent me a bunch of text messages in the middle of the day, I responded with short answers. She asked if I wanted her to come to my therapist session tonight to talk, as I had expressed wanting to meet with a therapist one last time. I told her "no thanks". Promptly I told her "I gotta go" and left it at that. I will see her after my therapy session at my house, not looking forward to going home at all.

[Steadfast]

Am I so ignorant to believe that any of her positivity towards me in this time is genuine? I want to believe there is still some good in her but as you guys are pointing out, it's all manipulation

 

It is so hard to tell by just reading a message, but I get the feeling you're a very emotional person surfer. By that I mean, your emotions can easily change and you are driven by how they make you feel. Controlled by them.

 

I respectfully offer another view of your wife, her actions and what I discovered when I was in your shoes. Like your wife, my ex was very difficult to read at times...so much so, I often didn't understand where she was coming from or why she'd act a certain way. Was she having second thoughts? What did that gesture mean? Why the mixed signals? When I explained these 'confusing' actions to a dear friend who was counseling me, when I asked how she could at one moment act with kindness then turn cold just moments later, her direct answer cleared it up completely:

 

"Nobody is completely bad, or completely good."

 

That's the truth surfer, but if your words are accurate (and I'm sure they are...most of us wouldn't wish this kind of emotional suffering on our worst enemy) it isn't good enough. And while the bashing session going on in this thread might inspire you to positive action, I'd suggest you consider that she's probably struggling quite a bit herself. The majority of her worry very well may be directed at how it'll effect her, but deep down I promise you she's second guessing and wondering what the long term impact will be.

 

If she expects you to pound sand while she figures it out, then she's asking too much. Stop trying to decode every message or statement and judge her actions. Dig a hole and anchor in surfer. Stop being pushed around. Stop trying to figure it out. She's working a new plan. You're not. Time to start.

 

Everyone handles it their own way, but I wouldn't let any of the things (house, car, savings, etc) you've mentioned stand in the way. Don't use a stupid house as an excuse to keep yourself tied to her. Blow it out. You're going to get hammered financially anyway. Stop running scared. Move.

 

Get away and stay away. It doesn't mean you don't care, it means you understand she doesn't care enough to try. Stop pounding sand. Move on.

[Ms. Red]

Ms. Red and 2sunny - thank you.. you have always been friendly and supportive and I appreciate that.

 

Ms. Red - What do you mean by "act on anything" ?

 

What stinks is that she is going to continue living around here and has inserted herself into some of my friends lives/hang outs. I told her I never want to run into her out in the world. I can't deal with that.

 

I was talking about not acting on getting the divorce started. I'm thinking different now though. You need to get it started yesterday.

 

I'm also wondering about something. Since most things that come out of her mouth are just meaningless words, how do you know she's serious about wanting a divorce?

 

I'd like to see you get mad. That would put a fire under your ass to get moving and stand up for your future. And with her pattern of always going back and forth don't be surprised if she has a change of heart again and wants to try it again with you when she realizes all she will lose. You should be prepared for that and remember all the pain she's put you through in the last year. Have a plan ready if she pulls that on you.

 

I think you will see changes in her when you start the divorce proceedings. I think you should become aloof and show no emotions. JMO but I think it will help you in the long term. Grieve when you are alone and keep it to yourself.

 

One day at a time bud. Do one thing tomorrow towards the divorce even if it's just calling around to find an attorney that will give a free consultation.

 

Maybe the next day, open yourself an account in your name only if you don't have that all ready. One thing a day and one day at a time.

 

As always, I wish you well.

[Surfer203]

Steadfast: I am a super emotional guy, I am trying to keep things in check a bit and act based on logic rather than emotion in terms of dealing with this situation. I am moving on, I promise. I have given up hope for our relationship to work, she clearly has given up and did not want to put in the work necessary for this to succeed.

 

I do know what you mean about her being in pain. That's why I am going to try to be as civil as I can. Not overly nice, but nice enough so that this does not weigh upon my mind or conscience. Thanks again for the great advice and intelligent words my friend.

 

Ms. Red: Regarding her being serious about the D this time.. I just have a feeling that she is dead serious. Although, there are signs that she is not all in regarding that either. She has threatened divorce before, usually when I put some pressure on her to change. I wouldn't be surprised if she flip flops again either. Even down the road after we are really DONE, I can just see her trying to be with me again.

 

You can't erase 10 years of history and good times quite that easily and she didn't process her feelings properly in my opinion. I think she is making this decision on a whim kinda...

Thanks again for your support.

 

___

 

Update for everyone else:

 

Last night I went to my IC and we talked about the issues at hand. After that my Father called and we talked a bit - I decided NOT to get into a conversation last night because I was emotionally worn out. Regardless of that, once I got home she went into her (guest) room. That's right, I stayed in the Master Bedroom!

 

Anyway, she was ignoring me which is what I wanted, some how we got into a conversation and she was crying, blah blah blah. She went to bed at 8:45 and I hung out downstairs. I didn't shed a tear, I stood up for myself and told her she dropped the ball in terms of trying to reconcile. This morning we were both up and we were civil, nothing serious. She works at her second job tonight, so I won't even see her at all.

 

Already making plans for my weekend so that I can have some peace of mind! PS... She was still wearing her wedding ring. Not sure if that means anything or if she is just trying to make it seem to others that everything is okay.

[2sunny]

honoring yourself should help - it will look more like it did last night. you don't need to be at the mercy of her - and her changing her mind. you have all the evidence you need to understand that she doesn't intend to bring positivity and love to this marriage.

 

when you stay NEUTRAL (no extreme emotions) more often - you will see what you need to know.

 

keep the emotions at bay - it helps the healing.

 

 

there is ALOT you don't know - and she doesn't want you to know - so walk away and start with a fresh perspective.

[Surfer203]

2sunny: Thanks, I am trying to be as neutral as possible, sometimes the emotions get the best of me. Hard to keep it all in check but I am working on it. I'm sure there is a ton I don't know and that frankly, I don't want to know. She is a damaged human being and I won't let her bring me down anymore. I feel stronger than I did after she left me the first time around 1 year ago. What's weird is that Sunday was the Anniversary of her leaving me.

 

I am still waiting on her to tell her parents and brother, I am interested to see what they say. Last time they thought she did something stupid and then when she came back they were relieved... I wonder what they will think the second time around. I am really going to miss them and my brother in law.. I love them all like my own family.

[2sunny]

You can call and tell them that it's just not working. That she's left you with nothing to work with. You can also tell them that you love them and that doesn't stop because you're not going to be married to her... And that your R with them is separate from yours with her. As a side note-but MAY be relevant - has she shown problems with alcohol or drug abuse... Her behavior falls within the patterns of someone with substance abuse... I'd be interested in your thoughts on that. Keep an open mind - her behavior indicates that very real possibility.

[Surfer203]

2sunny: Yeah.. I really love them. There was actually voice mail from them tonight on our home line. It's sad.. they know something is up because my wife has not called them in over 2 weeks or more. I could tell in my MIL's voice on the message. I am going to miss my brother in law most.. I love him like a brother. Luckily they all live in Canada, so - it makes it a bit easier.

 

Regarding alcohol/substance abuse... yes.. she started drinking after she came back home - about 3 months after. She does not drink every day.. but when she does drink, she does not know when to stop. It's quite upsetting. Her mother and grandmother were alcoholics, so it runs in the family genetically. I am not sure how much that affects our marriage however I always complain to her about her limits with alcohol.

[2sunny]

From what you described - her behavior looks familiar and the alcohol may be her obstacle to clear thinking and making good decisions. YOu can't fix it for her...SHE would need to get desperate enough to want to change everything for herself. YOU may wish to educate yourself about the progressive disease of alcoholism - that would at least tell you what you should expect from an active drinker- which is that what she's doing is designed NOT to make sense to a guy like you... Mainly because she will focus on drinking and eliminate anyone in her path that gets in the way of her drinking. She can't help it - and YOU can't help her except to give her severe consequences that keep YOU in a healthy place. She will drink- because she has to.

[PegNosePete]

Dude. Just caught up on your thread, sorry it hasn't worked out.

 

Did you see a lawyer yet? If not, WHY NOT???

[Surfer203]

2sunny: I am not sure HOW much of a problem the drinking is. She drinks maybe once a week sometimes twice. Generally only on the weekend. It's a bit confusing to be honest. I don't know what the problem really is. She says she is just not in love with me anymore. To me that is a cheap way out, without explaining the real problem. With all the amazing properties she says I have, I don't understand why she would not want to continue trying to work things out to be with me. Plus I am handsome as f***. haha

 

PNP: No problem man, I think it is for the better. No lawyer yet, very soon - very soon, I promise.

 

__

 

Update: Nothing really... although I have only seen her for 10 minutes this morning before work, I was civil. I don't want to act mean but I will not be backing down when it comes to fighting for myself and what I deserve. I don't want to go the nasty route because then I fear that she will take it out on me in a legal way - the house, debts, not paying me money, annoying lawyer stuff, etc. I don't want or need that. I just want it to be over. I am surprisingly OKAY. Feeling okay, which I did not expect, there is always ups and downs but I am at a point already where it took about 2 months to get to this point the last time. I might even say I am doing better than that too! I am happy that I know that this isn't the end of the world for me and I will be happy. A lot of you have inspired me and taught me this important fact. I am looking forward to the future!

[marqueemoon4]

He's right man.. once one or both of you hit a point of no return its gonna get nasty, believe me. Talk to an attorney asafp.

[Surfer203]

mm4: That's possible... I don't want to fight but I will defend my rights and my interests. I will not be malicious, I would prefer to use a mediator as well so as not to have an epic battle and waste tons of money.

[jaymz]

I am sorry it has all come to this surfer, I had hoped you would be one of the lucky few to reconcile your marriage.

 

You have had plenty of great advice on this thread and there are other similar stories with the same advice. You need to start doing things to get the ball rolling now with closing up your old life and starting a new one.

 

Good luck!

[Surfer203]

Jaymz: Thanks man and I agree with you. I can't wait to be like my idol debtman. haha All I know is I gave it all I could and I feel pretty positive about that. It built some character and taught me some life lessons.

[PegNosePete]

Dude trust me. Get a lawyer ASAP. Just because you have sought legal advice, does not mean it has to get nasty. It just means you know what your rights are, what kind of deal you can expect, and what settlement offers she makes are "fair". Not all lawyers are evil bulldogs, you can go and visit a few until you find one you like.

 

Mediators are all well and good, they do a job. Their job is to get agreement. They are not on your side and they will not tell you if an agreement is "fair" or not. They will just help you reach agreement. If you agree to a settlement that is unfair then a mediator will say another job well done goodbye. Whereas a lawyer will say NO my client deserves a better deal than that.

 

I am not saying don't do mediation, just know it for what it is. It's best to seek legal advice so that you know what a realistic outcome is, and THEN go into mediation with your eyes open.

 

Has it occurred to you that your STBX may just be playing nice because she is lining her ducks up? Has she sought legal advice? Are you SURE? How do you know that she is not going to get nasty tomorrow? Most people DO get nasty when they see $$$ signs, or when they realize their sheltered maintained lifestyle is coming to an end...

[Surfer203]

PNP: Well, she very well might get nasty. I still want to protect myself but my parents told me they would take care of all of my bills and if I am stuck with the house they will help me pay my mortgage and other associates bills. If all else fails, I will move in to an apartment in their house. There is nothing material that I fear losing. The only thing I don't want is to pay her alimony. Which I don't think I will have to, she currently has two jobs and has cheated on me and is choosing to leave me a second time. I was nothing but a saint to her. I love myself even more after what she put me through. I feel good about myself and sad for her.

[PegNosePete]

Don't let your parents pay anything for you until your divorce is through. If they do then your ex might be able to claim it -- or get a higher share of the marital equity because of it.

 

Don't move out either, I don't know how it works in your state but in the UK it is BAD to move out of the marital home.

 

See a lawyer before making ANY of this kind of decision to fully understand the consequences. They are quite often non-trivial and not intuitive either. There's absolutely nothing wrong with getting informed, it doesn't mean you're making it nasty, it just means you have knowledge instead of guesswork.

[Surfer203]

Dude, believe me... I'm not leaving the house - I might sleep at a friends or parents for a night or two but I am not leaving the house EVER. I worked my ass off to make that house what it is. I am proud of it. Anyway, yeah - I won't pay off debts until things are done. I don't want her to have any financial help from myself or my family. My family is not rich by any means but they are willing to help me out and that is a great gift.

[sumdude]

Hey Surfer. Been a while, sorry to hear that things didn't work out. Just hang in there. Gonna be a rough ride for a little while but you'll get through. Best thing to do now is be pro-active so you get your ship going in some direction. One, it keeps your mind occupied. Two it's gets you thinking about the future rather than the past. Three it gives you the opportunity to gain some real control of the situation.

 

The most important legal part of divorce is the settlement also known as the separation agreement. Whose name is on the deed and mortgage? Whose name is on all the other debt? Start thinking of options, write them down... on your own. This is where you start getting into negotiations. Try to be one step ahead. You be the one to come forward with the first draft.

 

Living together at this point? I would try everything possible to avoid that pain. Problem is you're both financially responsible for things.

 

Possibilities if everything has to be split:

 

Sell almost EVERYTHING, house, furniture etc Proceeds to pay off debts. Clean slate.

 

Both move out and rent the house to pay the mortgage. Sell or split furniture etc etc. Stop gap measure. Buys you time and financial breathing room.

 

If you think you can swing the note yourself find out what it would take to buy out her stake. Just keep in mind that living in that house will bring you constant reminders. I went through that... was extra emotional weight to bear but not impossible. A fresh place would have made things easier.

 

 

Good luck man, we're here for ya.

[Surfer203]

sumdude: Thanks for the kind words and advice. You have given me some things to think about. I am not opposed to selling everything.. the house I kind of want even with the memories, but that may change one day soon.

[jaymz]

I live in my family home until its sold, nothing is sader then coming home to an cold and empty house when only a few months before it was warm and full of life.

 

My advice? Dont keep stuff or the house, the memories are a killer.

 

You have a new life and a new adventure now. I am slowly filling mine with stuff *I like* that have great memories - out with family or friends shopping, gift etc.