Still hanging on...

[jstobo]

PNP: Tonight I am discussing with her divorce mediation and all of that kind of stuff. She agreed to having a talk tonight. Sorry to let you down man, I am trying my best to move forward but there is something holding me back.

 

reboot: Sorry.

 

mlouis: That's the problem, as much as I would like to be strong now - I am weak. She has a stranglehold on my emotions. It's so hard to push beyond that and do what I know needs to be done. I look forward to being in that position, I hope it's sooner than later.

 

You'll get there buddy. It is a slow painful process and one of the hardest things I have experienced in life. But each day gets a little easier. At some point, the days do become fun again. I wish it was overnight, but it just isn't. Your first need is to get under a different roof. I just don't think you can start to move forward until that happens. I know it's scary. God I know it's scary. But you can do this. You are a good person who deserves good things! Who you are right now is not YOU. It really isn't. There is a curable cancer living inside of you right now. The only cure is radiation, which is poison, which means greater pain. But it's the only cure. I hope you understand the metaphor. You can do this!

[Surfer203]

jstobo: Yeah, I think living apart will be a big part of healing. I am looking forward to being myself again, I know exactly what you mean. It's awful not to feel 100%. No one feels that way all the time but at this point in my life I NEVER feel like that anymore and it's a crime, waste of my time and life. blah.

[2sunny]

YOU have choices! Implement the choices that separate you from her...knowing full well you can't change her!

 

You can change you - by those choices YOU make and taking definitive actions to get to that place.

 

Hint: you won't get there by being at the mercy of what she is or isn't doing...it is up to you and the CHOICES you make for yourself and how firmly you stick to the goal of happiness.

[Surfer203]

2sunny: I really appreciate you sticking with me, even though I may get annoying. I do have choices but again, I feel like I can't excercise them for some reason. False hope or just being scared, I don't know.

 

My therapist recommended a mediator and my wife's therapist recommended the same mediator. Our therapists know eachother. So, we need to now have that discussion. I would rather do that then get in a huge legal battle. Not worth it, I am already too stressed and upset.

[2sunny]

I'm not referring to mediators.

 

I'm referring to the choices you do have.

 

You are making a conscious choice every day to stay stuck.

 

What would it look like if you were doing completely opposite of what you are doing now/have been?

 

Do opposite!

[mlouis]

mlouis: That's the problem, as much as I would like to be strong now - I am weak. She has a stranglehold on my emotions. It's so hard to push beyond that and do what I know needs to be done. I look forward to being in that position, I hope it's sooner than later.

 

You act as though you are not in control and are waiting for life to drop you in the position you want to be in. You ARE in control. Step 1 is convincing yourself that you are strong. You are. Remind yourself 20x per day that you are strong, and that life has great things waiting for you whichever way the road turns. If you guys end up together - great; if not - great as well. Being strong is a decision, not a destination.

[Steadfast]

Another shining example of counseling success. Two for one Tuesday.

 

Surfer, take the money you're spending on therapy and use it to retain the services of a paralegal. Sit down with him/her, write the divorce and settlement the way you want, have it prepared and present it to your wife. The paralegal can file everything so the court can set up the final date.

 

There were some other things involved. The filing fee was pretty stiff (around $800) and I had to attend a state mandated parenting class.

 

I did this at a fraction of what it would take to retain a lawyer. I wrote the settlement, gave it to my wife and after changing a few things to suit her, my paralegal filed it. No lawyers, so fees, no court battle. It was THE ONLY thing that we agreed on and the only thing that went without a hitch.

 

I remember telling her we could do it like this, or spend thousands of dollars and basically end up with the same thing. Few divorces are court battles, most are settled out of court. Would this make it easier for you?

[Surfer203]

2sunny: Opposite is committing to divorce and moving on. That's it... I am scared but sometimes I get that feeling come over where I say "I am done, I am tired of her s***". For some reason I can't seem to act on that. It is frustrating.

 

mlouis: Thanks pal. I do believe that life will be good after the marriage goes down the drain, I really do. Am I so fixated and in love with this woman that I can't let go? I don't know what is holding me back. As I said above there are moments when I feel strong and that I can take charge but I never follow through.

 

Steadfast: That would be a preferable way to handle it. I don't want to get in a huge legal battle and to be honest there is not much to fight over. Our house, two cars and a bunch of personal belongings. We have no savings, no investments, nothing. It should be pretty cut and dry. I wish I could clap my hands and everything be done. Maybe the fear of the process is holding me back. It's certainly intimidating.

[2sunny]

I hope you have planned Thanksgiving without her - and don't intend to even mention seeing her - or going to any gathering with her - for the day.

 

That will be contrary action! Then go and enjoy your day. Don't give her any thought.

[jstobo]

I hope you have planned Thanksgiving without her - and don't intend to even mention seeing her - or going to any gathering with her - for the day.

 

That will be contrary action! Then go and enjoy your day. Don't give her any thought.

 

I agree with 2Sunny. That is exactly what I am doing and today is her birthday to boot. Not acknowledging either. You are strong. You CAN do this!

[andyg99]

andy: The only reason I am thinking otherwise is because she is telling me otherwise.

 

.

 

So if a tree stood in front of you and said "I am a cat" you'd believe it?

[2sunny]

Her words are just LIES when her actions don't match with the words.

 

Pretend like you can't HEAR her - then see what's being portrayed by her actions.

 

From what you have portrayed - you have a wife that does what she wants, when she wants , with whoever she wants - and YOU aren't allowed to be a part of that - in fact she avoids you at all cost = that's not a wife - that's an enemy. Then when she has to see you - it's designed to hurt you to suit HER needs. That's not a marriage.

 

I'd ask why you think this is a M? It's not! Why are you willing to live with completely unacceptable behavior acting as if it's ok for this wife to treat you so unkindly? Ask YOURELF!!! Because if YOU don't change THAT about your expectations - you will pick the same negative qualities for the next gal you choose.

 

What are YOU learning/changing in YOUR counseling? I don't see anything happening for the fact that you are spending time and money to learn and grow.

 

IF you don't plan to change YOU - quit going! Quit pretending and fooling YOURSELF that you are working on you when you haven't been changing a thing... Most of all YOU and YOUR PERSPECTIVE! You are lying to yourself big time!

[Surfer203]

Hello all, hope you had a nice Thanksgiving.

 

Here is how mine went down...

 

I got a call yesterday morning at 4:45 AM, it's my wife, crying she got in a bad car accident. She was rushed to the hospital and of course I had to go pick her up and bring her home. I was not home at that time, I was sleeping over at my parents and was planning to go to Thanksgiving at my Aunt's house with them.

 

So, finally - we get her set up in the house and a bit later, I went on my own to Thanksgiving dinner. We were not planning on being together anyway but it is unfortunate that she got hurt. Nothing serious, just some bruising and cuts.

 

I do not wish hurt upon any one, however me helping her is not fair. I did a little bit for her but she seems ungrateful. Or maybe she is just so ashamed that her 2 job lifestyle with no time off was a big mistake. She also is acting a bit strange, I think she is guilty that she has hurt me so much and is making these stupid decisions and the only person around to help is me. It's ironic.

 

Karma?

 

 

__

 

Regardless, I am doing things differently now. For the past month or so I am very busy, always out with friends and doing fun activities. My life is changing a lot and was about to REALLY change but I am not sure what I should do due to the accident, may have to wait a bit.

[jaymz]

No contact = no contact

 

I would have ignored the call, went back to sleep and enjoyed thanks giving.

[Surfer203]

jaymz: We aren't NC. You are probably right though. She also said "I shouldn't have called you" but she literally does not have any one else to pick her up and help her.

[2sunny]

jaymz: We aren't NC. You are probably right though. She also said "I shouldn't have called you" but she literally does not have any one else to pick her up and help her.

 

Oh yes she does. You aren't the ONLY person she knows. You know that.

 

IF you start acting like you arent her savior/ rescuer - things WILL change!

 

She can figure it out... So let her.

 

Things won't change until YOU change this!

 

New life = she calls and you DON'T respond. You don't fix things for her, you don't worry.

 

It's hers to deal with. When you LET HER - that is when things will change.

 

You rescue and she DTILL treats you like crap - there is nothing loving about that. It's the victim role you LOOOOVE to play!

 

Find out how NOT to play THAT role = don't do anything for her. She is hymn being and she an ask others for the help she needs!

 

She won't until you stop providing her with what she knows she gets from you = rescuer.

 

Anytime she wants you for anything - say NO!

 

That's a start!

[Steadfast]

I got a call yesterday morning at 4:45 AM, it's my wife, crying she got in a bad car accident. She was rushed to the hospital and of course I had to go pick her up and bring her home. I was not home at that time, I was sleeping over at my parents and was planning to go to Thanksgiving at my Aunt's house with them.

 

This is the root issue. Although 2sunny has pegged it accurately many times, it's typically vague. Was it necessary for her, or you? I truly suspect that you are thrilled when she contacts you, and while I don't believe you're happy she was involved in an accident, you crave connection.

 

That's another way of saying some connection is better than nothing, and double bonus for you (and your ego?) when she reaches out in a time of turmoil. No question that this has been the pattern throughout the relationship. You're the giver, she's the taker. You like...no, love it. You do.

 

...however me helping her is not fair. I did a little bit for her but she seems ungrateful. Or maybe she is just so ashamed that her 2 job lifestyle with no time off was a big mistake. She also is acting a bit strange, I think she is guilty that she has hurt me so much and is making these stupid decisions and the only person around to help is me. It's ironic.

 

Karma?

 

Not karma. Not ironic. You did what she needed and afterward, you (again) wanted/expected something in return. At that point she was instantly reminded again why she isn't attracted to you and wants other men. I know this because you wouldn't know she's ungrateful unless you wanted/expected gratitude. Besides, wasn't a previous complaint that she didn't work and pull her weight? Now she's working (and meeting more men) and that is an issue. But you can't trust her surfer, working or not.

 

She's a user and a cheater, you're a manipulator. Your hate for how she acts is weaker than your desire, her disdain is stronger than her desire.

 

Regardless, I am doing things differently now. For the past month or so I am very busy, always out with friends and doing fun activities.

 

You're delusional. See your previous posts.

 

My life is changing a lot and was about to REALLY change but I am not sure what I should do due to the accident, may have to wait a bit.

 

No it isn't, and it wasn't. You do however, have a really handy new excuse now; the accident. This is a real upgrade over 'she's acting strange' ...the last emotional roadblock. You are seriously regressing surfer. Your older posts may be been depressing and even frustrating, but at least you were honest with yourself. Every time she reaches out for something you get an injection of self-esteem. When she ignores you, it's dark depression.

 

You have got to break the cycle dude. You may not see it, but my god.

[marqueemoon4]

What Steadfast is saying would be really brutal, if it wasn't dead on. I relate because its exactly how I would handle my exW, except for the fact she stopped the dance well over a year ago. Same stuff-- she's a taker, I'm a giver, and she knows she still has a hold on me. Why do we men want reciprocation and gratitude so badly? To the point we're willing to give up our manhood and self respect? Doesn't make a lick of sense.

 

Edit: no more than 30 seconds after finishing this message this person had the nerve to txt me asking if I have any of "her" xmas ornaments. First off I don't, secondly even if I did she isn't gettin them, nor I am responding to her ridiculous text.

Edited November 26, 2011 by marqueemoon4

[andyg99]

 

Edit: no more than 30 seconds after finishing this message this person had the nerve to txt me asking if I have any of "her" xmas ornaments. First off I don't, secondly even if I did she isn't gettin them, nor I am responding to her ridiculous text.

 

this is the kind of communication you should be comfortable with by now... her text was a simple question about ornaments, it wasn't ridiculous (unless there was more)... a simple yes or no I don't have them would do, you need to get to the point of communicating at a very basic level at least until your boy is grown...

[Steadfast]

What Steadfast is saying would be really brutal, if it wasn't dead on.

 

In my case, it's spoken from experience.

 

I gave my ex endless chances. I had fear of the unknown and massive amounts of physical attraction for her. She thought I was BS'ing her when I said she was the most beautiful woman in the world. I really meant it. I've traveled it and truly felt that way. It made for more pain though. In the end.

 

Only after I stepped back did I see what a terrible wife she was. Do I still care? She's the mother of my kids. I honored her request and let her go. Any reaction to her various crisis' means going back on my word. But I'm not a monster. If she really needed me, I'd be there but that isn't more than I'd do for a stranger. We sometimes have to make a judgement call.

 

I used to wonder what I'd do without her. Now, I wonder how I did it for so long. There's a life lesson there...one that surfer needs to learn.

[marqueemoon4]

this is the kind of communication you should be comfortable with by now... her text was a simple question about ornaments, it wasn't ridiculous (unless there was more)... a simple yes or no I don't have them would do, you need to get to the point of communicating at a very basic level at least until your boy is grown...

 

Yea well I'm not. Its a stupid question because to my knowledge there were no ornaments that were "hers". At best there were ones that were "ours" and ones for our son. She's not getting any of those back, the ones that were "ours" are going in the trash. Her "boundary" was she only wanted to talk about or txt about our child, not some nonsense about xmas ornaments.

[Athena]

Surfer,

 

I read your list of your wife's reasons for why she is leaving the marriage (from your post back in October), and your intuitive feeling that it was a bunch of BS.

 

I see you cannot walk away from her and you don't know why.

 

I see she bursts into tears often and you cannot understand that.

 

I believe the answer to all these strange things, is that your wife is seeing another man (either the same one as before -- most likely, or another one).

 

When a woman says she is not in love with you anymore, it simply means she is in love with another man, but she cannot show you her hand, so she leaves THAT part out.

 

She cries because she is feeling guilty, and stuck. She does not want you back -- and she would gladly go on forward with the other man, but he probably will not move forward with her. So she likely is just continuing to see him on his terms.

 

When she sleeps over at her 'friend's' house, she is actually with her boyfriend.

I also think her two new jobs may not be where she is, all of the time.

 

She is living a duplicitous life and your subconscious is picking up on all the subtleties, but you are blinded to her real actions.

 

So long as you continue to live in the dark, she will continue to milk you, and deceive you. No doubt she feels 'stuck' but not so bad that she will spill the beans about herself, and not enough to rock the boat which would change the status quo which she is comfortable with.

So long as she is in the Know, and you are not, she feels she has power and control.

 

That is why you cannot move forward.

 

You cannot put your finger on it, but things just don't add up. In the back of your mind you are telling yourself that if she Really wanted to leave you, she would, and while you are growing steadily fed up with her treatment of you, and wishing you had the balls to get rid of her already, you STILL are waiting FOR HER TO END THE MARRIAGE.

 

She will not willingly come forward to tell you about her relationship, because she realizes it will not be beneficial to let you know that truth. If she has any hopes of being financially maintained by you, for short-term and long-term gains she has to keep her mouth zipped up.

 

The tipping point will come when you either put a PI on her to find out the truth for you, or follow her yourself and investigate further.

There is no way you can feel sane and confident and sure of yourself, when she has sold you nothing but lies and has consistently gaslighted you about everything.

 

When you have been gaslighted by the one you love and trust, you are forced into a situation where you have to either doubt THEM, or yourself. So you have chosen to doubt yourself (that leaves you with hope for her).

 

The antidote to this uncertainty and crazy-making, is to get at the TRUTH... if you do not uncover her lies, you will remain stuck, as you have been, and unable to follow up on your decision to divorce her, or to move forward with any solid actions because you cannot move forward if you don't even know where the hell you stand. You do not truly know where you stand with her.

 

= My take on this.

[robf1971]

Hello all, hope you had a nice Thanksgiving.

 

Here is how mine went down...

 

I got a call yesterday morning at 4:45 AM, it's my wife, crying she got in a bad car accident. She was rushed to the hospital and of course I had to go pick her up and bring her home. I was not home at that time, I was sleeping over at my parents and was planning to go to Thanksgiving at my Aunt's house with them.

 

So, finally - we get her set up in the house and a bit later, I went on my own to Thanksgiving dinner. We were not planning on being together anyway but it is unfortunate that she got hurt. Nothing serious, just some bruising and cuts.

 

I do not wish hurt upon any one, however me helping her is not fair. I did a little bit for her but she seems ungrateful. Or maybe she is just so ashamed that her 2 job lifestyle with no time off was a big mistake. She also is acting a bit strange, I think she is guilty that she has hurt me so much and is making these stupid decisions and the only person around to help is me. It's ironic.

 

Karma?

 

 

__

 

Regardless, I am doing things differently now. For the past month or so I am very busy, always out with friends and doing fun activities. My life is changing a lot and was about to REALLY change but I am not sure what I should do due to the accident, may have to wait a bit.

 

She's an adult who's quite capable of taking a cab back if she's drunk or tired. Crumbs, what the hell does she expect driving a car at 4.45am after no sleep.

 

However, I do think you did right by picking her up, there is a difference between being a jerk and showing some backbone. Only a jerk would have not picked her up from the hospital.

 

You need to start showing some backbone, this is a huge part of the reason why she is not attracted to you. The Om she is seeing (99% sure of it) probably treats her like a piece of trash and your wife loves it, he's acting like an alpha male. I bet most of the crting is about OM not her feeling one iota of guilt.

 

Her being at home after the accident is the perfect opportunity for you to do the most loving thing you can for your wife..

 

'Wife, I love you but I'm not in love with you' so I've helped you out by packing your stuff up and will happily help you move out' I'll give you a 2 weeks, until then your stuff is in the garage, my lawyer will be in contact soon"

 

SET HER FREE,

[Ballerfamily]

Surfer,

 

I read your list of your wife's reasons for why she is leaving the marriage (from your post back in October), and your intuitive feeling that it was a bunch of BS.

 

I see you cannot walk away from her and you don't know why.

 

I see she bursts into tears often and you cannot understand that.

 

I believe the answer to all these strange things, is that your wife is seeing another man (either the same one as before -- most likely, or another one).

 

When a woman says she is not in love with you anymore, it simply means she is in love with another man, but she cannot show you her hand, so she leaves THAT part out.

 

She cries because she is feeling guilty, and stuck. She does not want you back -- and she would gladly go on forward with the other man, but he probably will not move forward with her. So she likely is just continuing to see him on his terms.

 

When she sleeps over at her 'friend's' house, she is actually with her boyfriend.

I also think her two new jobs may not be where she is, all of the time.

 

She is living a duplicitous life and your subconscious is picking up on all the subtleties, but you are blinded to her real actions.

 

So long as you continue to live in the dark, she will continue to milk you, and deceive you. No doubt she feels 'stuck' but not so bad that she will spill the beans about herself, and not enough to rock the boat which would change the status quo which she is comfortable with.

So long as she is in the Know, and you are not, she feels she has power and control.

 

That is why you cannot move forward.

 

You cannot put your finger on it, but things just don't add up. In the back of your mind you are telling yourself that if she Really wanted to leave you, she would, and while you are growing steadily fed up with her treatment of you, and wishing you had the balls to get rid of her already, you STILL are waiting FOR HER TO END THE MARRIAGE.

 

She will not willingly come forward to tell you about her relationship, because she realizes it will not be beneficial to let you know that truth. If she has any hopes of being financially maintained by you, for short-term and long-term gains she has to keep her mouth zipped up.

 

The tipping point will come when you either put a PI on her to find out the truth for you, or follow her yourself and investigate further.

There is no way you can feel sane and confident and sure of yourself, when she has sold you nothing but lies and has consistently gaslighted you about everything.

 

When you have been gaslighted by the one you love and trust, you are forced into a situation where you have to either doubt THEM, or yourself. So you have chosen to doubt yourself (that leaves you with hope for her).

 

The antidote to this uncertainty and crazy-making, is to get at the TRUTH... if you do not uncover her lies, you will remain stuck, as you have been, and unable to follow up on your decision to divorce her, or to move forward with any solid actions because you cannot move forward if you don't even know where the hell you stand. You do not truly know where you stand with her.

 

= My take on this.

 

spot on....I have been curious as well why Surfer has not investigated furthur...does he not want to know...from experience, knowing clears the mind to make good,decisive decisions...or does surfer realize she is seeing someone, but continues to hope he will win in the end.....Surfer, not a chance as long as OM is in picture...you just don't get that....CUT ALL TIES.....IF SHE STILL DOESNT CUT TIES WITH OM, THATS ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW... a $30 pay as go phone with tracking software, a $10 account with a tracking co online( http://www.accutracking.com/,.. is all you need.if you need info, I got it...took exactly one day for me to know.... $40 bucks, and you can be at peace......Because once you realize that she is actually with another OM, you will cut this cancer from your life...these kind of woman, can not be alone..100% guarantee there is a OM in her life, if not 10......WAKE UP, BROTHER,BEFORE YOU BECOME MENTALLY ILL.. and that will happen

Edited November 28, 2011 by Ballerfamily

[madangari]

2.50: That's my goal, to keep her wanting to come home at night. It's not always a picnic though. There is still some resentment and bad feelings lingering. I hope we can push through them. I am giving it my all and I am not sure that she is giving it her all unfortunately. At least the hostile atmosphere in the house has diminished a bit. To me it's now time to improve things and build upon the foundation we have. Things are calm, now time to get the love and passion back. I just need some more suggestions on how I can help this along. She hasn't bailed on me yet, she is following my rules. It strikes me that she would have left again if she had her mind made up about leaving me. Confused.

 

Guys.

.the biggest hurdle will always be...during the hard times...when theres a friction between the two of you...its good that you are getting along during happy times...what about the hard ones? i presented mine with a tough situation when things were moving 'smoothly' and i realized she woulld still hate and cheat on me