Around what age do women start to become less desirable

[Disenchantedly Yours]

123321

Because they are trained from infancy to do so, as their role is societies disposable workhorses. "When you comin' home Dad? 'I don't know when'" as the song so clearly illustrates. Dad and son want to spend more time together but Dad has been trained to work hard as a way to prove to his family his value and his love for them.

 

His son later learns this lesson well "someday I'm gonna be like him".

 

Both men and women are cultrally trained to perform certain ways that might not be the best for them I grew up with a Father that was always working because he believed that was where his worth was tied. However, today's fathers seem to be more invovled in their children then previous generations that thought their place was at work. You see more fathers picking up their kids and taking them to practice and even coaching practice.

 

However, what you referenced earlier, more risky jobs, and the amount of time a man spends at work, aren't exactly the same topic. Men in general take more risks. Testosterone makes men engage in more risky behavior. And not just in life threatening jobs. Men will do extreme sports for the fun of it that are life threatening as well. I think you know this.

 

 

 

 

The difference for males is statistically hard to detect, let alone be significant in a world where many women die during childbirth often taking the child with them. As one biologist to clearly noted "nothing matters but grandchildren"; in other words managing to get impregnated or to give live birth is a small part of the genomes work (historically speaking, not so much in first world nations now), it has to ensure that the child has children and so on. That wasn't as simple as popping one out in the local hospital and applying for WIC for most of human history.

 

Umm okay so a mans' age doesn't matter because grandparents do? I have no clue what you are attempting to say here. If the actual birth of a health child doesn't matter (which is actually utter nonsense) then it shouldn't mattter how old the woman is. I am just baffled by this last comment of yours. It's completely nonsensical.

[Eeyore79]

What age range then do you think would go for someone almost 28? I used to think forties was too old but since guys my age and in their 30s seems to want under-25 I'm figuring I should broaden my horizons or be less picky.

 

I'm 32, and I exclusively date men in their twenties. The youngest I've dated recently is 21; my current bf is 28. A man in his forties is far too old for me - most men in their forties look old enough to be my father!

 

Yes, looks do decline with age, but it really depends how beautiful you were to begin with. A woman who was stunning when she was younger is likely to still be hotter at 35 than some average looking 25yo girls are. I saw a tv interview with Reese Witherspoon the other day - she's 35 and is still prettier than some young girls will ever be. I think you should just look for someone you like, who likes you, and ignore the whole age thing.

[oldguy]

There is a reason the most successful women are mostly ugly as hell. That is because these women learned from the beginning that they werent attractive enough to attract a successful man who will let them join in their success without working for it, so they worked hard by themselves to achieve their own success.

 

A hot woman can have the money of a doctor simply by marrying a doctor but an ugly woman has to actually become a doctor in order to have the money of a doctor.

 

I believe that may be a skewed perception; I know at least one, very hot, very successful woman who more than once has said that her ability made her who she is but her looks got her where she is.

 

When all else is even, taller, thinner, better looking will win out. Those things are simply in the equation.

[AHardDaysNight]

I'm 32, and I exclusively date men in their twenties. The youngest I've dated recently is 21; my current bf is 28. A man in his forties is far too old for me - most men in their forties look old enough to be my father!

 

Yes, looks do decline with age, but it really depends how beautiful you were to begin with. A woman who was stunning when she was younger is likely to still be hotter at 35 than some average looking 25yo girls are. I saw a tv interview with Reese Witherspoon the other day - she's 35 and is still prettier than some young girls will ever be. I think you should just look for someone you like, who likes you, and ignore the whole age thing.

 

They couldn't possibly be your father, unless they had sex at the age of 11 (which is improbable.)

 

I think you just don't want to face the idea of getting older.

[blueskyday]

We all get better as we get older! I've been told I'm hot all my adult life, but hotter now. Who knows? Maybe true, maybe not, but I'll take it.

 

Thanks to years of Cosmo Magazine, I'm certainly well-adept at playing up my sensuality and assets now. I have confidence and brains, and interests in my life. A man simply adds to it.

 

I've been lucky. Most men who have fallen in love with me say I was beautiful to them at first, and became more beautiful to them as time went by. So I think feelings can make someone more attractive. I've had that happen with men, too. Their hearts and humor make them more handsome to me.

 

Everyone is beautiful in some way. And that part can spread to the whole. I really believe that. Just hold out for someone who sees it.

Edited October 3, 2011 by blueskyday

[Eeyore79]

They couldn't possibly be your father, unless they had sex at the age of 11 (which is improbable.)

 

I said they look old enough to be my father, not that they could actually be my father. Men in their forties usually have grey hair and/or going bald, and they're quite wrinkly and possibly a bit fat. In fact, a lot of men in their thirties are heading the same way, hence my lack of interest in them. Of course I wouldn't turn down a date with a really hot and successful older man, but the fact is that the majority of older men don't look that great. The handsome men I'm interested in dating usually tend to be younger than me.

 

The younger men I date usually assume I'm younger than them, and they're surprised to find out I'm not in my mid-20s. People usually assume that my bf is in his thirties and I'm in my twenties, when in fact it's the other way around. I still look good, so why shouldn't I date someone who looks equally good, regardless of any difference in our ages?

[Sanman]

Does science say that or did a scientific study done from a group of people say it? There is a difference.

 

Sanman, out of all the couples I know, none of them have the same career experience and I would say that while some are of equal attractiveness, some aren't as well. Naturally you need to have things in common, usually values and probably other life style choices. However, everday I see couples together that aren't tit for tat "equals". If you believe you belong in a certain place, that is where you will be. I personally don't believe in "leagues" or rating people on scales from 1-10. There is no real scientifc way to measure such things. Where one person is good at math..another might be good at reading. Obviously the list goes on.

 

No,no....science is the same of the homeless dude that sleeps on my front stoop. He said so and he is always right.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matching_hypothesis

 

http://www.elainehatfield.com/ch108.pdf

 

Education and socioeconomic status generally matter in similar ways. A research scientist and a construction worker have little in common. Similarly, a prep school investment banker rich kid has little in common with someone who grew up in government housing.

[oldguy]

I said they look old enough to be my father, not that they could actually be my father. Men in their forties usually have grey hair and/or going bald, and they're quite wrinkly and possibly a bit fat. In fact, a lot of men in their thirties are heading the same way, hence my lack of interest in them. Of course I wouldn't turn down a date with a really hot and successful older man, but the fact is that the majority of older men don't look that great. The handsome men I'm interested in dating usually tend to be younger than me.

 

The younger men I date usually assume I'm younger than them, and they're surprised to find out I'm not in my mid-20s. People usually assume that my bf is in his thirties and I'm in my twenties, when in fact it's the other way around. I still look good, so why shouldn't I date someone who looks equally good, regardless of any difference in our ages?

 

Hey! I'm older than mid 40's and I have all my hair with no grey, yet, I'm not wrinkly at all & I'm certainty not over weight. Although until about 2 years ago I was a little short for my weight but I've taken care of that.

 

I also would NEVER exchange my years for the drama, or insanity of being in my 20's or even early to mid 30's again. No offense, but it's tough.

 

some people age like fine wine... others like milk

[stillafool]

A hot woman can have the money of a doctor simply by marrying a doctor but an ugly woman has to actually become a doctor in order to have the money of a doctor.

 

Sadly somewhat true. I watch the Millionare Matchmaker and most of the men say they are tired of dating goodlooking bimbos and want an educated, career woman, or appropriate age to marry. Well when those women are presented to these men with a few young bimbos thrown in, guess who they still end up choosing? - the young, goodlooking bimbo.

[Eeyore79]

Hey! I'm older than mid 40's and I have all my hair with no grey, yet, I'm not wrinkly at all & I'm certainty not over weight.

 

Good for you! I said I'd be happy to date an older man if he looked good - unfortunately most of them don't, hence why I tend to date younger men.

[Woggle]

Sadly somewhat true. I watch the Millionare Matchmaker and most of the men say they are tired of dating goodlooking bimbos and want an educated, career woman, or appropriate age to marry. Well when those women are presented to these men with a few young bimbos thrown in, guess who they still end up choosing? - the young, goodlooking bimbo.

 

The Millionare Matchmaker is hardly an example of reality. Also most women would do the same thing as well.

[AHardDaysNight]

Once again, it goes back to the adage that people date the most attractive that they can, and screw what's appropriate for them!

[Disenchantedly Yours]

No,no....science is the same of the homeless dude that sleeps on my front stoop. He said so and he is always right.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matching_hypothesis

 

http://www.elainehatfield.com/ch108.pdf

 

Education and socioeconomic status generally matter in similar ways. A research scientist and a construction worker have little in common. Similarly, a prep school investment banker rich kid has little in common with someone who grew up in government housing.

 

Sanman, you do realize what a "hypothesis" and "theory" is right? Just that. Its just like the Bing Bang "Theory". It's a possible reason on how some couples interact but it's just that. A theory. And it doesn't all inclusively include all couples. Again, I did SAY that I have no doubt couples are drawn to each other that match in certain areas. But there are also couples that are drawn to each other that don't match in cetain areas. Take into account how people judge beauty, intelligence , sense of humor and the lines get even more blurred. Almost every woman says she wants a man with a sense of humor. However, if the kind of sense of humor a man has isn't her particular brand, it's a useless. I love Jon Stewart. My one friend hates him. It's subjective. What you personally determine is appriopiate couplehood someone else might not agree. I know so many couples that show different strengths. So I think by making up nonsense about "leagues", that can't fully be defined except extreme cases like your said homeless man and Donald Trump, a lot of it is going to be subjective. If you want to cast yourself in a box and say that is where you belong. Go ahead. But I'm a multi demensional person myself.

 

Oh by the way, I do know a construction worker dating a woman that works on wallstreet. They been going strong for 3 years now.

[Eeyore79]

Once again, it goes back to the adage that people date the most attractive that they can, and screw what's appropriate for them!

 

True. Although I think that looks are more important to men, while women value looks but also consider success/wealth to be a important component of attractiveness.

 

One of the reasons I like to date younger men is because older men often have kids or ex-wives who eat up a large chunk of their finances. An older man with baggage can actually end up being poorer than a younger man who earns less but has no baggage. An older man is infinitely more attractive if he isn't paying alimony or child support - in fact I won't even date a younger man if he has that sort of baggage, never mind an older man.

 

As I said before, I'd be willing to date an older man who looks good and doesn't have financial commitments to a previous family. Unfortunately such men are in short supply - most 35+ men are a bit rough around the edges and have a couple of kids to support. So while I am willing to date older men, it generally turns out that the majority of handsome guys with no baggage tend to be younger.

[Eeyore79]

Oh by the way, I do know a construction worker dating a woman that works on wallstreet. They been going strong for 3 years now.

 

I actually see this happen quite a lot. Women usually want a wealthier, more successful man. However, when the woman herself becomes extremely wealthy and successful to the extent that she doesn't care about the man's status anymore, then she will date based on looks and compatibility, and may end up dating a handsome construction worker.

[TooAccepting32]

Eeyore, you describe my situation exactly. I struggled with this for a while... being 34, single, and thinking I "should" date older men. "Society" says so? Maybe, but I've had nothing but encouragement from all directions to date younger men (including encouragement from the younger men of course haha). I refuse to subscribe to this "rule" that enables men to date a large age range of women, but limits women to a small age range of men. It's not even logical in today's society, and totally illogical for me.

I'll do what feels natural, seems logical to me, and meets my needs/goals. I will not let societal "shoulds" limit me.

My current bf is 29, looks older and acts older. I don't mean he's more mature.. I just mean.... less youthful. He's an adventurous and energetic type, but he's sometimes seems too "old" to fit in or do some of the activities I like to do. He definitely seems a LOT older than the average guy who wants to date me. I prefer not to date anyone who seems much older than him whatever age they are. Like Eeyore, I would date a hot, youthful older man, without baggage, sure.

Thanks for sharing your experience Eeyore... it's nice to see someone else out there with the same outlook as me

 

What does all of this mean for the OP?... I think we're conditioned to look at age and gender in certain limiting ways. Because of this suppressive societal unwritten "rule" about women, age, and dating, women might tend to feel that our options diminish as we age, rather than the reality that they can stay the same, or better - increase!

Edited October 3, 2011 by TooAccepting32

[123321]

I actually see this happen quite a lot. Women usually want a wealthier, more successful man. However, when the woman herself becomes extremely wealthy and successful to the extent that she doesn't care about the man's status anymore, then she will date based on looks and compatibility, and may end up dating a handsome construction worker.

True, however most women are not driven to perform like men are; historically and still to some degree, for a man to enjoy the "love" of an attractive woman he MUST perform. If not he is nothing and will only end up with partners who had no better options, excluding edge cases of course.

 

 

 

Both men and women are cultrally trained to perform certain ways that might not be the best for them I grew up with a Father that was always working because he believed that was where his worth was tied. However ...

 

 

Men in general take more risks. Testosterone makes men engage in more risky behavior. And not just in life threatening jobs. Men will do extreme sports for the fun of it that are life threatening as well. I think you know this.

Violent tendencies in men are historically linked to female approval of those behaviors, driven by survival needs. In societies where violence was no longer needed the behaviors went largely away fairly quickly. Women did not show this trend, indeed women have in almost every case used men as fighting machines when there was fighting to be done. When there is no fighting required, female withholding of intimacy to "non-fighters" declines and violent behavior also declines.

 

 

 

 

Umm okay so a mans' age doesn't matter because grandparents do?

The "old man disadvantage" has been measured to be quite minimal for any reasonable age, for instance the measured disadvantage for a 20s man vs a 40s man was less than the "2nd child" disadvantage at any age. Starving to death or being malnourished or freezing or being used as cannon fodder (see fighting machine, above) before the age of fatherhood would certainly end that genomes survival containers career, however.

 

So as the researcher says, "only grandkids count". It's shorthand for the prolonged care that humans need to become fully functional.

 

 

 

Well when those women are presented to these men with a few young bimbos thrown in, guess who they still end up choosing? - the young, goodlooking bimbo.

Hard to fight all those generations of successful genes saying "pick that one".

[Disenchantedly Yours]

123321

Violent tendencies in men are historically linked to female approval of those behaviors, driven by survival needs. In societies where violence was no longer needed the behaviors went largely away fairly quickly. Women did not show this trend, indeed women have in almost every case used men as fighting machines when there was fighting to be done. When there is no fighting required, female withholding of intimacy to "non-fighters" declines and violent behavior also declines.

 

Lets take a look at some competitive sports that men enjoy. Boxing, wrestling, football...all highly risky to a man's health and violently interactive with an opponent. Do millions of men watch and play football purely for female enjoyment and desire or do millions of men tune in on Sunday's to football becaues it speaks to something raw and basic and competitive linked into a man's primal DNA?

 

Historically, violent tendencies in men have been linked to male approval. There is tons of male approval going on in the hard contact sports I listed. Historically, male protection has been linked to female approval, this I would agree with. Why do you think men were created with more muscle mass to begin with 12321?

 

Warriors, Gladiators, Knights, Boxing..these are events enjoyed and promoted by men through history. These were systems of competition put in place by men. Back in the day women weren't creating Gladiators or boxers. Men where willingly and happily doing it to exert their control and competition over other men. How many men loved the movie Gladiator? I know tons that did. It's a guy movie. Most women were indifferent to it.

 

Women don't want erractically violent men for the sake of it. However, men that excude qualities linked to testosterone might be met with female approvel. Women do want men that are able to protect them. Testosterone fuels alot of risky behavior whether you want to admit it or not. Men have naturally more muscle mass whether you like it or not. Women aren't sitting around hoping a man beats them up because of "violent tendencies". But they might feel safer being with their man on a dark street then if she was by herself. Also, there is a different between violent for violent sake, and being someone that has to make a violent choice (such as all our sevice men) for self protection or competition (such as in sports).

 

Further, I don't buy into the idea that women use men as "fighting machines" since through the history of the world it's been male run orgainzations that promote male violent action. Men have ruled the world for eons. There are still more men in power of position. Certainly in violent areas like the Army or Navy.

 

But I will say that women can and sometimes do promote negative sterotypes of men and it would be good for women to be more aware of that. Just as men promote negative stereotypes of women and it would be good for men to be more aware of that as well.

 

Finally, what societies are there out there where violence was no longer a neded behavior and thus by your own comments women didn't withhold intimacy from non violent men?

 

 

The "old man disadvantage" has been measured to be quite minimal for any reasonable age, for instance the measured disadvantage for a 20s man vs a 40s man was less than the "2nd child" disadvantage at any age. Starving to death or being malnourished or freezing or being used as cannon fodder (see fighting machine, above) before the age of fatherhood would certainly end that genomes survival containers career, however.

 

I think you would like to personally believe that older men have only a minimal difference between younger men. But all you have to do is go out in the real world and compare the typical 25 year old man to the typical 45 year old man. Men age. It's not anything to be ashamed about. Their sperm isn't the highest quality possible. Women age as well. As they get older they don't have as many eggs. These are the realities. But just like you point out that older men might be better propositions for their maturity and experience, the same can be said for older mothers. Since both older men and women do tend to have more maturity and experience under their belt, their life choices might be more sound and even then a younger person still trying to figure it out. I'm not saying older men or women are worthless. They aren't. They can even have beautifully healthy children. What I am saying is that men age just like women. And if we are going to justify the continued interest in "young women" based purely on biology, then we must do the same concerning men. Our country has a growing ADD and AHAD rate and that's been linked to older fathers. Older father's affect on their children is not minimal. But if men continue to believe that, then the only people that have the possiblity of missing out our their own off spring. Not women.

 

 

So as the researcher says, "only grandkids count". It's shorthand for the prolonged care that humans need to become fully functional.

 

Hard to fight all those generations of successful genes saying "pick that one".

 

If you really believe this is the only factor or the most important then it would only be logical to conclude that you believed that to be true for older fathers AND mothers since older people are usually more well esbalished, balanced and have learned lessons that younger ones haven't. But this isn't about that. Otherwise you would be making a case for older mothers too and that's not what you are doing.

 

Both men and women don't want to loose the things about themselves that make them important parts of the world. But we all age. And men aren't aging "better" or "slower". Nature doesn't work like that. I've already pointed out why.

[Eeyore79]

I struggled with this for a while... being 34, single, and thinking I "should" date older men. "Society" says so?

 

Funny, I never got the impression that I "should" be dating older men. I always just dated whoever I wanted to date, regardless of their age. If anything, I seem to get kudos for dating a younger man!!

[Woggle]

As women gain more power they are becoming as violent as men are. In a society that promotes a dog eat dog approach to life you will see more violence.

[TooAccepting32]

Funny, I never got the impression that I "should" be dating older men. I always just dated whoever I wanted to date, regardless of their age. If anything, I seem to get kudos for dating a younger man!!

 

That's fantastic! You started out ahead of me then Since I've been dating younger it's been supported by people around me... the concern was just me thinking it was what "society" wanted of me.

[eatNrM]

I don't see the big deal about older women dating younger men. Guys do it all the time.

 

Plus the women still look mighty fine in their 30's especially if they still take care of themselves.. It's not like they jump from 25 to 75 years old.

 

For instance, when I was back at university, the assistant director of music was 50 years old. But my lord, this woman was yummy because in part, she took great care of herself. And I have no qualms when I say I would totally hit it.

[Sanman]

]Sanman' date=' you do realize what a "hypothesis" and "theory" is right? Just that. Its just like the Bing Bang "Theory". It's a possible reason on how some couples interact but it's just that. A theory. And it doesn't all inclusively include all couples.[/b'] Again, I did SAY that I have no doubt couples are drawn to each other that match in certain areas. But there are also couples that are drawn to each other that don't match in cetain areas. Take into account how people judge beauty, intelligence , sense of humor and the lines get even more blurred. Almost every woman says she wants a man with a sense of humor. However, if the kind of sense of humor a man has isn't her particular brand, it's a useless. I love Jon Stewart. My one friend hates him. It's subjective. What you personally determine is appriopiate couplehood someone else might not agree. I know so many couples that show different strengths. So I think by making up nonsense about "leagues", that can't fully be defined except extreme cases like your said homeless man and Donald Trump, a lot of it is going to be subjective. If you want to cast yourself in a box and say that is where you belong. Go ahead. But I'm a multi demensional person myself.

 

Oh by the way, I do know a construction worker dating a woman that works on wallstreet. They been going strong for 3 years now.

 

 

Of course I know what a hypothesis or theory is. Everything in science is spoken of in theory rather than fact because there are no absolutes in science. The theory of evolution is just that as well...a theory. That does not mean there is not a plethora of evidence to support it. This is like those people who state global warming is only a theory. Of course, but it is a theory with significant scientific consensus. If you look into the matching hypothesis, you will see a number studies have beared the theory out and a number of these studies are listed on the wikipedia page, which is why I linked it. Do you know how science works?

[Disenchantedly Yours]

As women gain more power they are becoming as violent as men are. In a society that promotes a dog eat dog approach to life you will see more violence.

 

I don't think the power women gain has to do with more violence BUT there is an increase in violence amoung young girls then there use to be. I don't think this has to do with with the healthy gain in power women needed so much as the same reason why young boys act violent. Insecurity, a desire to prove one self as "top dog/cat", poorly directed energy.....I also think that gender roles are less defined so we see boys with sometimes more feminine traits and girls with more masculine traits. Which sometimes is positive but sometimes it's not.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

Of course I know what a hypothesis or theory is. Everything in science is spoken of in theory rather than fact because there are no absolutes in science. The theory of evolution is just that as well...a theory. That does not mean there is not a plethora of evidence to support it. This is like those people who state global warming is only a theory. Of course, but it is a theory with significant scientific consensus. If you look into the matching hypothesis, you will see a number studies have beared the theory out and a number of these studies are listed on the wikipedia page, which is why I linked it. Do you know how science works?

 

 

That's right. There is no absolutes in science. Theories are not complete facts. Theories are just that, theories. How many times do I have to say to you that I don't disagree that people come together because of common backrounds or qualities? I never denied this. However, many people come together because they see strengths in a person that they might not have and that's attractive. Scientifically people are attracted to other people that have completely different immune systems from them. Because the differences allow for a wider and stronger gene pool. It's why having a baby with your sister would most likely result in an unhealthy baby. So your theory on this is not the only scientific approach. And I never ever said it was completely untrue or didn't happen. I clearly stated that several times and you ignored it. But I also know that people are attracted to each other for their differences as well. And that there is alot of nonsense about "leagues" where a person "belongs" that actually hold people back from accomplishing great things. Or having great love even. Maybe you like to think that you belong in a certain "league". And you are more then welcome to place yourself in whatever league you wish. I don't live my life that way. You also aren't factoring in all the different ways people judge others. I like really intelligent men. But it's a certain kind of intelligence that does it for me. I also like funny men. But it's a certain kind of funny that does it for me. As I said before. I like Jon Stewart. My friend doesn't. We both like funny men. League yourself anyway you want. But what you may judge "equals" or "leagues" may not be how others do.