Civility

[TurningTables]

"The other side of the story: Support and discussion for those who find themselves involved with a committed partner."

 

How is calling somebody "trash" support?

 

This topic has been addressed before and it would appear that those who believe that OW/OM are fair game win out. Sometimes I wonder if the description of this forum is a way to lure unsuspecting people in here so as to provide target practice for others. It's cruel and it's uncalled for in any situation.

 

Best,

Ellie

 

 

Ellie: I think that what is best to remember is that here there are tons of people at different stages of the game. There are OW/OM, FOW/OM, BS and even sometimes the WS comes on here. We are all at different stages of healing or trying to begin to understand the dynamics of a A. As a fOW, I can see a BS coming on here and calling OW "trash" because she was blindsided by her H's A. Her family has been ripped apart and she is lashing out at anyone she can. On the other side of the coin, a OW comes here, lashes out at posters who tell her/him their sides of the story. An OW/OM can be angry that posters are saying: he isnt going to leave, he is lying etc. People who post here are may be in pain, lost and confused. And yes, some just post here are trolls, trying to stir things up. It all comes down to being able to see the other side and the motives behind one's posts.

 

I know Ive been harsh at times, I have not meant to be rude to anyone in anyway. LS has given me a perspective and a different view into what was going on in my EA. If I can prevent just one person from the pain, heartache and tears my A caused, it will be worth it in my book. I honestly wasent going to post anything, because it was me that SMO took offense to something I said in another thread. I have since decided to take the high road and my own advice from the first paragraph.

[woinlove]

Got in a hurry,

 

anyway, I was apologizing to you and any others if I offended you.

 

Thanks. Apology accepted. Not that I was offended; I just prefer not to be described that way -- if I was. I honestly don't know who you were describing with those terms -- if it was simply whoever disagreed or was meant only for a tiny group of posters. Anyway, it doesn't matter - apology accepted.

[no expectations]

I can only speak for myself but every appearance of an insult does not bother me in the least and I have no goal to change this forum. I am so blessed to live in a country where we have free speech. The original post in this thread is just an opinion, isn't it?

 

Speaking literally only for myself, calling another human being trash for any reason is more than the appearance of an insult. It is degrading. If that makes me nitpicky or uber sensitive then so be it. I believe there are ways to make your point without name calling but, again, that's just me. If name calling is what someone needs to do, then, fine. But I have every right to have an opinion about that. Can I wish that people were more sensitive to each other...I sure can and I do.

[Owl]

I wonder how often people (intentionally?) misconstrue the concepts of disagreemant and incivility?

 

Just because I don't agree with you (or you don't agree with me) doesn't mean that I'm being less than civil. Even if I repeat my viewpoint, rephrase it, or otherwise try to help you see my point.

 

Here's my thought...if anyone here finds my posts to be less than civil, rude, or in any fashion something they don't like...report me, or put me on ignore.

 

Don't expect me to change.

 

If my posts violate the TOS of this site...then theoretically reporting them should result in immediate corrective action.

 

Use the tools present to help enforce the TOS.

 

But don't expect that a thread like this is likely to change behaviors on this forum. Surely wouldn't be a realistic expectation.

[whichwayisup]

I think the real issue here is being skirted (skurted??lol) you know what I mean..

 

It's obvious various posters, members do not get along and it comes out daily.

 

It isn't about newer members, new OW reaching out for help .. In the past bunch of months newbies have come along and had some wonderful support and advice. It's when (and all it takes is ONE person) to pick apart or disagree with a replyers (replier, OMG, can't spell today) post, then reaction follows and so on.

 

If we all just stuck to the ONE person who is asking for help, the side bickering would be less.

 

Affairs are messy and emotional, all sides of it. People post at their lowest of lows, some are upset and easily offended, some aren't. Some don't care and are just looking for help and don't care about the side crap that goes on..

 

Years ago mods were assigned to various sections of LS. Sure, there was still some emotion going on and disagreements, but nothing like what's been going on during the past few years..

 

We all are responsible for how LS is, censorship and consideration for others before one even posts is something to think about. Sorry, don't mean to sound lecturish, but are you all just sick and tired of the bickering, game playing, bitchyness, finger pointing, arguing?? I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I certainly am.

[woinlove]

"The other side of the story: Support and discussion for those who find themselves involved with a committed partner."

 

That is an interesting description for this forum, isn't it? It is quite distinct from the descriptions of other LS forums and gets quoted a lot. Even the infidelity forum doesn't mention support and makes it clear it will mix those actively pursuing affairs with those try to recover from the devastation of discovering one.

 

And the "who find themselves" is intriguing. While a few OW/OM are duped and then find themselves unwittingly involved with a committed partner, most OW/OM posting here actually chose to be and/or choose to continue to be with a committed partner. However, I doubt the forum meant to focus only on those who thought they were with a single person and found otherwise. Still, no one would describe a marriage forum "for those who find themselves married" unless they wanted to mainly attract the few who wake up with a killer headache and a wedding band they don't remember getting.

 

Anyway, an interesting forum description I have sometimes wondered about and wished we had an explanation for.

Edited September 23, 2011 by woinlove

[MissBee]

"The other side of the story: Support and discussion for those who find themselves involved with a committed partner."

 

How is calling somebody "trash" support?

 

This topic has been addressed before and it would appear that those who believe that OW/OM are fair game win out. Sometimes I wonder if the description of this forum is a way to lure unsuspecting people in here so as to provide target practice for others. It's cruel and it's uncalled for in any situation.

 

Best,

Ellie

 

Eleanor, I am really not sure where anyone has ever said or insinuated that calling OW, or anyone for that matter, trash was a great and acceptable thing to do.

 

I think the problem is the difference between posters addressing the particular individual who is insulting someone (calling them trash in this case) and trying to reorganize the board as a whole to be something other than it is OR worst yet, using one or a few posters comments to make it seem like the majority of LS members go around calling people trash when it is plain and simple not true.

 

I think that is what Lady Grey meant by she is for people's rights not to be policed...she is not saying it's fine to call someone trash, she is saying it is NOT fine for one set of posters to dictate how people should post, especially posts that are not outside of the TOS (which is the point of this thread...the "suggestions" put forth by SMO have nothing to do with civility and are not things outside of the TOS, just his own preferences of what he thinks people should not say in discussion...which is policing).

[pureinheart]

That's a really good point. I've seen that too.

 

I'm not against BSs posting in an AP forum, I just think it's important to bear in mind it IS an AP forum and those that do so do a wonderful job of interacting here and are really appreciated.

 

Me either, in fact back when I first joined I got a lot of support from both AP's and BS's. I was out of the A, although I felt that the BS's were genuine. When I came back there was a lot of hate coming from a lot of different directions.

 

Most of the excuses for not acting right are present in this thread..it's crazy really.

 

Sometimes it feels like a dog pile or shark/piranha infested waters. I've had people pm me telling me they were afraid to post, although saw the same thing I did.

 

I think it's really bad when posters are intimidated to the point that they are afraid to share their stories for fear of being eaten alive. Words carry a lot of impact, especially to those that are hypersensitive due to various happenings in their lives.

 

Yes this is a world wide web forum, but some of the most vile verbage and mind twisting is coming from regulars.

[MissBee]

I wonder how often people (intentionally?) misconstrue the concepts of disagreemant and incivility?

 

Just because I don't agree with you (or you don't agree with me) doesn't mean that I'm being less than civil. Even if I repeat my viewpoint, rephrase it, or otherwise try to help you see my point.

 

Here's my thought...if anyone here finds my posts to be less than civil, rude, or in any fashion something they don't like...report me, or put me on ignore.

 

Don't expect me to change.

 

If my posts violate the TOS of this site...then theoretically reporting them should result in immediate corrective action.

 

Use the tools present to help enforce the TOS.

 

But don't expect that a thread like this is likely to change behaviors on this forum. Surely wouldn't be a realistic expectation.

 

I absolutely agree!

[Owl]

Yes this is a world wide web forum, but some of the most vile verbage and mind twisting is coming from regulars.

 

Again...my thought on this is...REPORT IT.

 

If it's against the TOS of the site, it'll be dealt with. Take it from me...regulars are NOT immune to infractions! :)

 

That's really the only way to deal with it.

 

Nothing else will result in change.

[MissBee]

I can only speak for myself but every appearance of an insult does not bother me in the least and I have no goal to change this forum. I am so blessed to live in a country where we have free speech. The original post in this thread is just an opinion, isn't it?

 

Speaking literally only for myself, calling another human being trash for any reason is more than the appearance of an insult. It is degrading. If that makes me nitpicky or uber sensitive then so be it. I believe there are ways to make your point without name calling but, again, that's just me. If name calling is what someone needs to do, then, fine. But I have every right to have an opinion about that. Can I wish that people were more sensitive to each other...I sure can and I do.

 

Brilliant post!

[pureinheart]

I have some great ideas, but I'd hate for Tony's last official act to be banning my ass for all eternity.

 

Friday afternoons just seem to have this way of prodding me into looking for trouble.

 

You always, totally crack me up!!!!!!!

[pureinheart]

Again...my thought on this is...REPORT IT.

 

If it's against the TOS of the site, it'll be dealt with. Take it from me...regulars are NOT immune to infractions! :)

 

That's really the only way to deal with it.

 

Nothing else will result in change.

 

Most definitely, I used to not report most stuff because I felt bad that Tony was the only mod. After awhile I got tired of continually being reported, so I began to report.

 

It blows my mind that there is even a need for mods, but that is the way it is...your right Owl.

[bentnotbroken]

I think the real issue here is being skirted (skurted??lol) you know what I mean..

 

It's obvious various posters, members do not get along and it comes out daily.

 

It isn't about newer members, new OW reaching out for help .. In the past bunch of months newbies have come along and had some wonderful support and advice. It's when (and all it takes is ONE person) to pick apart or disagree with a replyers (replier, OMG, can't spell today) post, then reaction follows and so on.

 

If we all just stuck to the ONE person who is asking for help, the side bickering would be less.

 

Affairs are messy and emotional, all sides of it. People post at their lowest of lows, some are upset and easily offended, some aren't. Some don't care and are just looking for help and don't care about the side crap that goes on..

 

Years ago mods were assigned to various sections of LS. Sure, there was still some emotion going on and disagreements, but nothing like what's been going on during the past few years..

 

We all are responsible for how LS is, censorship and consideration for others before one even posts is something to think about. Sorry, don't mean to sound lecturish, but are you all just sick and tired of the bickering, game playing, bitchyness, finger pointing, arguing?? I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I certainly am.

 

 

I would so like to name some names...but I get sick of the naughty step.

[pureinheart]

I think the real issue here is being skirted (skurted??lol) you know what I mean..

 

It's obvious various posters, members do not get along and it comes out daily.

 

It isn't about newer members, new OW reaching out for help .. In the past bunch of months newbies have come along and had some wonderful support and advice. It's when (and all it takes is ONE person) to pick apart or disagree with a replyers (replier, OMG, can't spell today) post, then reaction follows and so on.

 

If we all just stuck to the ONE person who is asking for help, the side bickering would be less.

 

Affairs are messy and emotional, all sides of it. People post at their lowest of lows, some are upset and easily offended, some aren't. Some don't care and are just looking for help and don't care about the side crap that goes on..

 

Years ago mods were assigned to various sections of LS. Sure, there was still some emotion going on and disagreements, but nothing like what's been going on during the past few years..

 

We all are responsible for how LS is, censorship and consideration for others before one even posts is something to think about. Sorry, don't mean to sound lecturish, but are you all just sick and tired of the bickering, game playing, bitchyness, finger pointing, arguing?? I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I certainly am.

 

You should see my spelling lately:rolleyes:. What I find intriguing is that most of us actually agree about the core issue. It seems to be the issues that sprout from the core issue.

 

Rarely do I see an AP that "likes" the situation the way it is. From there on is where the problem seems to be, in how the AP's choose to handle things, BUT that is their business and if they choose a particular way that is unagreeable (is that a word?) (see I told you:rolleyes:) that is where problems seem to lie.

 

Personally, I am a straight up person, although have kept others secrets and also understand why certain things should be kept underwraps...that is their business as far as I'm concerned.

[Silly_Girl]

Ellie: I think that what is best to remember is that here there are tons of people at different stages of the game. There are OW/OM, FOW/OM, BS and even sometimes the WS comes on here. We are all at different stages of healing or trying to begin to understand the dynamics of a A. As a fOW, I can see a BS coming on here and calling OW "trash" because she was blindsided by her H's A. Her family has been ripped apart and she is lashing out at anyone she can.

 

If that is the case, if she's not looking for a fight, why come to a board with 'SUPPORT and discussion for OW/OM' as a tagline? That totally stumps me.

[Silly_Girl]

Some BS's have said they come here to understand, get the pov. The tagline doesn't say restricted. I've seen many posts that were very kind and helpful from them. I'm sure it depends on what stage of healing they are in. For instance look at seren's posts. Always kind, always supportive. There are others too.

 

It stumps me that people don't get that this part isn't restrictive as to who can post. If it was, then the complaints would be legit, but it's not. It's the site owners call as to what it is or it isn't.

 

It doesn't say restricted, but that's not my point. My point is that the tagline IS informative enough that it should discourage bashers, and I feel the forum collective should discourage bashers also.

[whichwayisup]

It doesn't say restricted, but that's not my point. My point is that the tagline IS informative enough that it should discourage bashers, and I feel the forum collective should discourage bashers also.

 

I agree..Though with that said, there's a heck of a lot more member to member bashing than newbies getting bashed.

 

Gonna add too, that some people don't read the TOS nor do they read the tagline at the top. If someone joins and is just ready to post, depending on their frame of mind, they're not going to sit and read the taglines at the top of the page.. Just my opinion..

[SidLyon]

Since it seems there are some who would like do discuss this, I thought I'd create a thread for it.

 

I grew up learning that even when disagreeing with someone, one should be civil and present their disagreement in an adult, polite, manner. I was taught that making a rude remark simply for the sake of making a rude remark, never has a place among civil adults.

 

Obviously, this is a global forum. People are brought up differently, have different cultural backgrounds, different personalities, different ways of expressing themselves. I can accept that.

 

However, this is a forum for the purpose of support and discussion, so, that should be the culture which is promoted here.

 

I have notice there are some here who feel the need to constantly restate the obvious. People involved in Affairs generally already know these obvious facts and are not here looking for someone to help them determine what an affair is or what is involved in an Affair. Perhaps we can clear some things up here and minimize the need some feel to restate the same thing in every thread.

 

- This is a forum for OW/OM.

- OW/OM are involved in Affairs

- OW/OM are involve in affairs with MM/MM

- Affairs, infidelity and cheating on your spouse are usually bad

- Lying to your spouse, deceiving your spouse, are usually bad

- Getting divorced before dating would be the preferred option

- If you are involved in an Affair and your MM/MW tells you he or she is getting divorced, there is a good chance they won't

- OW/OM can choose to end an Affair, but it may be difficult and painful

- Hindsight is 20/20, so, once you are out of an affair, you will likely see it differently

- Being involved in an Affair proves your willingness and ability to be involved in an affair. Both parties may have some difficulty in trusting the other because of this.

 

 

Feel free to add anything to the list you feel falls under the heading of "Restating the obvious"

 

Civility is good in my opinion.

 

Telling other people what they should not post is not so good in my opinion, even if done in a civil manner.

[MissBee]

I agree..Though with that said, there's a heck of a lot more member to member bashing than newbies getting bashed.

Gonna add too, that some people don't read the TOS nor do they read the tagline at the top. If someone joins and is just ready to post, depending on their frame of mind, they're not going to sit and read the taglines at the top of the page.. Just my opinion..

 

Those are valid points! When I joined LS, admittedly, I read neither! I ended up eventually reading the TOS after becoming a member...the only section I ever read the tagline for was here, and ONLY because people brought it up so much in threads.

 

I also find it curious that a lot of times when a thread turns into an argument over what is support from what isn't, the person who created the thread, and most often a newbie, is never the one doing the complaining. If they are complaining fine...but it's a bit ridiculous for someone to assert an offense has been made when the OP was carrying on in the thread and engaging in a discussion and even thanking people for their advice. When that happens...it just seems petty and nitpicky and clearly is just about infighting versus one's "concern" for newbies.

[NoIDidn't]

Its so interesting how these types of threads never come up in the other forums here.

 

Oh well.

[wannabdone]

Most definitely, I used to not report most stuff because I felt bad that Tony was the only mod. After awhile I got tired of continually being reported, so I began to report.

 

It blows my mind that there is even a need for mods, but that is the way it is...your right Owl.

 

 

PIH.... what in gods green earth did you get reported for???? are you kidding?

[bentnotbroken]

PIH.... what in gods green earth did you get reported for???? are you kidding?

 

 

Probably some of the same things she reports others for.

[bentnotbroken]

Its so interesting how these types of threads never come up in the other forums here.

 

Oh well.

 

 

I know. The things that men get called for staying with their wives who cheat over in infidelity....

[pureinheart]

Probably some of the same things she reports others for.

 

Excellent example of twisting:lmao::lmao::lmao: