Mixed messages

[Johnny]

Please help! I have fallen for a work colleague in a big way. I have to tell you that I am married, but my marriage is all but over and I have told my colleague all of the issues involved and how counselling hasn't worked. She seems to understand the situation. She too is in a relationship that isn't working and has agreed to her partners request to seek counselling. She has also had a previous bad marriage. We are very close, discuss everything and although are in different work locations, call each other at least once a day, sometimes more (the calls are not business related, or if they are, the reasons are spurious). I have told her about my feelings for her on more than one occassion and she says she does not reciprocate them and just wants to be friends. Yet when I told her that my wife had arranged a recent vacation to try to save our marriage, she was clearly down about this asked me to call her as usual on the workdays I was absent. This I did and was encouraged to continue to call her which I did twice a day. When I asked her afterwards about the significance of this when she knew how I felt about her and my wife's reason for the trip away, she denied that it was significant and said that she just wanted to be there for me as I wasn't looking forward to going on the trip. However her requests for me to call were certainly not delivered in this manner and I made it clear that the calls were clandestine. I have told her that I will leave my wife to be with her but she says she does not feel the same and has denied that she is just seeking attention from me. Very reluctantly I have had to tell her that I just cannot cope with continuing our very close friendship because of my feelings for her and will have to keep contact to business only (which I have tried to do before but her calls kept on coming and we slipped back into it). She was upset about this and asked me not to blank her when we met in a business setting. I did have to do this recently in an attempt to try to get over her and although we did not speak, it was clear from her body language from accross the room that she wanted us to talk. Is she just attention seeking or using me or is she really just a friend? My gut feeling is that there is something between us - surely friends do not ask, want or need to call each other that often, especially when one side is away with their partner where the partner is trying to save the marriage! I just can't work it out! Can someone help me please?

[Tony T]

Well, let me be the first to tell you how some women do it. I say SOME, not all. And perhaps this is not a female thing alone, although I have not witnessed this phenomenon so much in men.

 

This woman is in a bad relationship but has agreed to go to counselling to help work it out. Obviously she is not happy there but there is some hope or maybe she is going just so she can leave with less guilt knowing she did her best...or some crap like that.

 

It is my personal opinion that a woman who conducts herself as this woman has is pretty insincere about her feelings toward her husband and you as well.

 

Many woman enjoy having a stand by just in case things don't work out in their current relationship. Statistically, between 78 and 86 percent of women who initiate a divorce have someone else to go to almost immediately. Actually, it depends on the age of the woman. For the sake of appearance, they may get an apartment or whatever, but they have something else going on. (Statistically, far more women initiate divorce than men).

 

This woman is fond of you but she is using you right now for her safety net. Yes, she picked lucky you. You were the one closest and convenient enough to be her security blanket. She may even be one of those people who just can't stand to be alone. She needs to these calls everyday to assure herself that you will be there. Hearing you tell her how you feel about her is music to her ears. Isn't that special!!!

 

Now, if the counselling works well and she is able to get things back on track with her boyfriend, you'll still get calls from her for a while. But when she becomes very sure that her relationship is where it needs to be, your phone will become silent and those little invited stares from across the room, etc. will cease. Overnight, she could even avoid you like the plague. Isn't that special!!!

 

On the other had, if she breaks up with her boyfriend, it is very likely that she will rush to your side and encourage whatever kind of relationship she wants with you. She may only want an affair because she may want to see what else is out there. Or she may just break up your marriage for her convenience so she will have someone to fill the void in her life. Isn't that special!!!

 

Well, you do have the consolation that she picked you. She could have picked any one of dozens of other men that she is familiar with but you were an easy target because women are very perceptive and well know when someone is attracted to them.

 

I hate to take the wind out of your sails, but while this woman is fond of you in a perverted sort of way, she is using you as security in case things don't work out. If the two of you end up together, you can be sure she will have another you out there to call and flirt with just in case it doesn't work out for you and her. Isn't that special!!!

 

So now that you know the rest of the story, I just want to make one other comment. If things aren't working out with your and your wife, you did say it was all but over, why don't you free your wife to find someone who can give her the love and loyalty she deserves...and find the same for you. It takes a lot of energy to live two lives. You will also find it so much easier to find a real, honest, true, healthy relationship if you don't have to do your flirting and courting undercover.

 

You seem like a really great guy and I hate to see you being used...and not even realizing it. Hey, the ones that do this are really damned good at it. But you live only one life and you deserve to be happy with someone who wants you for you...and not someone who wants you in the event she needs someone to come in between leaving someone and finding someone else.

 

Now wouldn't that be special!!!

[Jenna]

I have a male friend- that confides in me and vice versa- we talk often (not daily though) and there was a time when he let me in on a secret- he was attracted to me- and wouldn't mind spending some "time" with me. Well, he was married- and as you- the relationship was in a bad way. I was in a relationship too- and not very happy. Despite what may appear to have been a good opportunity for us- I just wasn't interested in him that way. I did want to keep his friendship- I enjoyed our conversations and we seemed to be a comfort to each other. But when he divorced and I found myself free also- we did not date- as I mentioned before I did not think of him as anything other than a friend.

 

When I first started reading your post- it seemed that this lady friend of yours might have felt the same way I did- eventhough she enjoyed talking to you- and obviously cared for you- she did not want a romantic relationship. But when you told about your trip and how she insisted on the calls continuing- that was a little weird. To give her the benefit of the doubt- you might consider this- she may depend on your kindness to help her through the day. While this is not the best choice of self-help- it may be what works for her.

 

I would be more inclined to agree with Tony- she "probably" has a hidden agenda- even if she isn't totally aware of it herself. (but-she most likely knows exactly what she is doing)

 

Men and women can be friends- even "best" friends- sharing everything- just like two women would. But true friends know and respect the boundries- they realize that the other has a separate life to lead- and does not make unrealistic demands of the other. They encourage each other to better themselves & their relationships. So in light of these things- she is not presenting herself to be a true friend- it is more like she is using you- for whatever reason- but using is using no matter the motive.

 

What do you think your life would be like with this person should you end up in a relationship with her? Here's some insight- close your eyes and pretend that you are in place of her current partner- your life would more than likely be just what his is now- miserable.

 

Take a step back from this- look at how dysfunctional the whole picture is. You aren't being fair to your own wife- who (from what you said) is trying to make your marriage work. You are chasing after another woman who won't return any of your romantic feelings- and yet still makes extreme demands on you.

 

Your life - it would seem- would be so much more pleasant if you ended the marriage that you obviously don't want to be in or give it real 150% effort- and let go of the fantasy that anything with your friend would be productive- and get on with a more healthy relationship- with someone who is not already attached.

 

Good Luck Jenna

Well, let me be the first to tell you how some women do it. I say SOME, not all. And perhaps this is not a female thing alone, although I have not witnessed this phenomenon so much in men.

 

This woman is in a bad relationship but has agreed to go to counselling to help work it out. Obviously she is not happy there but there is some hope or maybe she is going just so she can leave with less guilt knowing she did her best...or some crap like that. It is my personal opinion that a woman who conducts herself as this woman has is pretty insincere about her feelings toward her husband and you as well. Many woman enjoy having a stand by just in case things don't work out in their current relationship. Statistically, between 78 and 86 percent of women who initiate a divorce have someone else to go to almost immediately. Actually, it depends on the age of the woman. For the sake of appearance, they may get an apartment or whatever, but they have something else going on. (Statistically, far more women initiate divorce than men). This woman is fond of you but she is using you right now for her safety net. Yes, she picked lucky you. You were the one closest and convenient enough to be her security blanket. She may even be one of those people who just can't stand to be alone. She needs to these calls everyday to assure herself that you will be there. Hearing you tell her how you feel about her is music to her ears. Isn't that special!!! Now, if the counselling works well and she is able to get things back on track with her boyfriend, you'll still get calls from her for a while. But when she becomes very sure that her relationship is where it needs to be, your phone will become silent and those little invited stares from across the room, etc. will cease. Overnight, she could even avoid you like the plague. Isn't that special!!!

 

On the other had, if she breaks up with her boyfriend, it is very likely that she will rush to your side and encourage whatever kind of relationship she wants with you. She may only want an affair because she may want to see what else is out there. Or she may just break up your marriage for her convenience so she will have someone to fill the void in her life. Isn't that special!!! Well, you do have the consolation that she picked you. She could have picked any one of dozens of other men that she is familiar with but you were an easy target because women are very perceptive and well know when someone is attracted to them.

 

I hate to take the wind out of your sails, but while this woman is fond of you in a perverted sort of way, she is using you as security in case things don't work out. If the two of you end up together, you can be sure she will have another you out there to call and flirt with just in case it doesn't work out for you and her. Isn't that special!!! So now that you know the rest of the story, I just want to make one other comment. If things aren't working out with your and your wife, you did say it was all but over, why don't you free your wife to find someone who can give her the love and loyalty she deserves...and find the same for you. It takes a lot of energy to live two lives. You will also find it so much easier to find a real, honest, true, healthy relationship if you don't have to do your flirting and courting undercover. You seem like a really great guy and I hate to see you being used...and not even realizing it. Hey, the ones that do this are really damned good at it. But you live only one life and you deserve to be happy with someone who wants you for you...and not someone who wants you in the event she needs someone to come in between leaving someone and finding someone else. Now wouldn't that be special!!!

[Johnny]

Some real insight, thank you both very much Tony and Jenna. Some of my close friends have said very simillar things, others have wondered whether because of her previous bad relationships (the marriage was violent) she is too frightened to take a step, prefering to play it safe particularly as I am married. In a phone call once where we were idealising about what our perfect partner would be like she said "I can't say it, it won't come out" and when questioned later about what she meant she conveniently said she couldn't remember saying it!!!

 

To be fair, she wasn't insistent that I phoned whilst away on the trip, but made it very clear that she wanted me to phone her. One opinion I have had on this is that she wanted to "involve" herself in this process, to ensure that it didn't succeed - but as you say the motive behind this is questionable.

 

I also have female friends (in the true sense with no romantic involvement or intent) both at work and outside of work. We too talk often (still not daily) and we lunch too. I have hidden nothing about these from her and as she has access to my online diary, can see the relevant appointments. She does however become a little jealous about it all, nothing direct - just comments and innuendo.

 

As I said earlier, I "blanked" her at a business function last week and she spent most of the night dancing with one guy in particular (another "friend"). When they exited the dance floor, she stopped right by me and gave a funny little motion, I guess to try to attract my attention. I did not (could not) look over. I had been dancing earlier too.

 

All very peculiar you might say and you wouldn't be the first believe me!! Do either of you ( or others) have any other pearls of wisdom to add before I bite the bullet on this one? Also too, how do I handle it now? Keep up the blanking and keep all calls at a business level? Any further help, no matter how insignificant it may seem to you, would be most welcome to me. I need all the help and advice I can get. I appreciate it - thanks

I have a male friend- that confides in me and vice versa- we talk often (not daily though) and there was a time when he let me in on a secret- he was attracted to me- and wouldn't mind spending some "time" with me. Well, he was married- and as you- the relationship was in a bad way. I was in a relationship too- and not very happy. Despite what may appear to have been a good opportunity for us- I just wasn't interested in him that way. I did want to keep his friendship- I enjoyed our conversations and we seemed to be a comfort to each other. But when he divorced and I found myself free also- we did not date- as I mentioned before I did not think of him as anything other than a friend. When I first started reading your post- it seemed that this lady friend of yours might have felt the same way I did- eventhough she enjoyed talking to you- and obviously cared for you- she did not want a romantic relationship. But when you told about your trip and how she insisted on the calls continuing- that was a little weird. To give her the benefit of the doubt- you might consider this- she may depend on your kindness to help her through the day. While this is not the best choice of self-help- it may be what works for her. I would be more inclined to agree with Tony- she "probably" has a hidden agenda- even if she isn't totally aware of it herself. (but-she most likely knows exactly what she is doing) Men and women can be friends- even "best" friends- sharing everything- just like two women would. But true friends know and respect the boundries- they realize that the other has a separate life to lead- and does not make unrealistic demands of the other. They encourage each other to better themselves & their relationships. So in light of these things- she is not presenting herself to be a true friend- it is more like she is using you- for whatever reason- but using is using no matter the motive. What do you think your life would be like with this person should you end up in a relationship with her? Here's some insight- close your eyes and pretend that you are in place of her current partner- your life would more than likely be just what his is now- miserable. Take a step back from this- look at how dysfunctional the whole picture is. You aren't being fair to your own wife- who (from what you said) is trying to make your marriage work. You are chasing after another woman who won't return any of your romantic feelings- and yet still makes extreme demands on you. Your life - it would seem- would be so much more pleasant if you ended the marriage that you obviously don't want to be in or give it real 150% effort- and let go of the fantasy that anything with your friend would be productive- and get on with a more healthy relationship- with someone who is not already attached. Good Luck Jenna

[Tony T]

Let her know in very clear terms that while she is in counselling to help her improve her current relationship and while you are also encumbered. it serves no useful or productive purpose to carry on in any way. Cease all except business communication and keep it on that level.

 

Let this lady find someone else to be her safety net. You don't need to be used for that. It's amazing how people can smile in your face and yet have such twisted agendas. I think some don't do it consciously but that's the way it is.

 

Also, as a practical matter, keep love stuff out of the workplace. There are just too many wonderful ladies away from work. Because your place of employment puts you in proximity with women, it creates an artificial sense of commonality and it's easy to fall for someone there. But the heartache, embarassment, rumors, drama, etc. that is created by this activity just isn't worth it.

 

While falling for someone at work may be cheaper than going out to places to meet them, the price you pay is really far more in the longrun.

[Jenna]

Johnny,

 

I am so glad to hear that you are ending things with the lady at work. You can't help but feel bad for her- she is obviously fighting battles of her own. But this may be the very thing that attracted you in the first place. You got caught up in her nightmare to get your mind off of your own. Not a good foundation.

 

You have never said what you are going to do about your marriage- care to share?? I would much rather advise you on that subject- you might be very surprized at how easily the answers to your workplace delima would surface- once you focus on the real issue at hand.

 

I would love to hear the story about you and your wife- when you are ready.

 

Jenna

Let her know in very clear terms that while she is in counselling to help her improve her current relationship and while you are also encumbered. it serves no useful or productive purpose to carry on in any way. Cease all except business communication and keep it on that level. Let this lady find someone else to be her safety net. You don't need to be used for that. It's amazing how people can smile in your face and yet have such twisted agendas. I think some don't do it consciously but that's the way it is. Also, as a practical matter, keep love stuff out of the workplace. There are just too many wonderful ladies away from work. Because your place of employment puts you in proximity with women, it creates an artificial sense of commonality and it's easy to fall for someone there. But the heartache, embarassment, rumors, drama, etc. that is created by this activity just isn't worth it.

 

While falling for someone at work may be cheaper than going out to places to meet them, the price you pay is really far more in the longrun.