So... It was ALL a lie?

[moonlight4]

For me, it's been 7 months since I ended my affair. I used to ask the very same question "did he really love me", i agree with other posters who say that, yes, they probably did love you in some sort of way, but not enough to change their situation at home.

 

There comes a point when you realize that it doesn't really matter anymore, you become less preoccupied with that notion, and start to heal from the whole ordeal.

 

Where am I now? I hardly ever think of him (only when H. brings it up) If I saw him, I'd walk right by and not say a word, he could beg and plead, and tell me he left his wife etc. and I would not care. Seriously, if they can cheat on their wife, don't you think they could lie and cheat on you?

 

All this to say that it takes time to heal, but yes, eventually you move on and feel better about yourself.

 

good luck

[Ilmhb3]

Thanks everyone. Def seeing the fundamental problems with trying to use love as a gauge for anything.

 

As for telling W, is that really what I should do? He showed up at my apt before six am, no ring on and has been IMing me. I dont want to intervene or hurt her anymore. For all I know shes told him she wants a D, u know?

[Owl]

Thanks everyone. Def seeing the fundamental problems with trying to use love as a gauge for anything.

 

As for telling W, is that really what I should do? He showed up at my apt before six am, no ring on and has been IMing me. I dont want to intervene or hurt her anymore. For all I know shes told him she wants a D, u know?

 

If this is what he's doing...yes, you should tell her, and let her know that you want him to stop doing it. Make sure he hears that same message loud and clear as well.

[Marie63]

This person does not know what love is - so I agree. It does hurt so much because of how you perceive love and I am so sorry. The person he is with now is going to suffer too emotionally from the lack of love. I wish you the best. Learn from this experience, and move forward as best you can.

[Quiet Storm]

He may have loved you, but not in the same way that you loved him.

 

You, like most women, feel that love is one of the most important things in life. That love = sharing a life and future together. We, as women, are very relationship focused. Relationships, whether it be with our romantic partner, our children, our parents, or our friends, are very important to us and take up a lot of our headspace.

 

For many men, love is fleeting. They feel love in that moment, but it is relative to the situation they are in at the time. It may not be a lasting and enduring love kind of feeling, but a feeling of many short love bursts. It is often very "out of sight, out of mind". They will love you fiercely while in your presence, but not think that much about you while busy with other things.

 

They love the way they feel around you, they enjoy your time together, but they feel no responsibility to act on their "love". Love (to them) doesn't mean they want to be with you forever. It means "I love being with you right this minute."

 

Men aren't always prompted to act on their "love", like many women are. They accept love as a feeling, an emotion, but not as a life changing event. They realize that it has an expiration date, and aren't particulary bothered by this fact. They often have a "let's enjoy it while it lasts" kind of mentality.

 

For many men, the commitment to the marriage trumps the feeling of romantic love. They want to keep the marriage and honor their commitment, but miss the excitement of early romance and new sex. In their mind, an OW is the perfect solution to this problem because it allows them to have both.

 

For many MM, having an OW is not a sign that their marriage is failing, but a way to help their marriage succeed. (crazy thinking, I know)

 

They have a sense of duty to their wife and family, and this feeling of responsibility is often much stronger, and constant, then their feelings of romantic love to OW.

[fooled once]

There are times in life when the only closure you will ever get from a relationship is what you create for yourself................

(*not trying to come across as if I'm on a high-horse---this is just something I'm coming to discover for myself............*)

 

There are some people who will never be able to provide you with closure, because they are too broken themselves---they are incapable of owning their own behavior, they can't face their own demons----so you may never get an apology, or an explanation, or the truth.........

 

Great post!

 

[quote=moonlight4;3646711

There comes a point when you realize that it doesn't really matter anymore, you become less preoccupied with that notion, and start to heal from the whole ordeal.

 

All this to say that it takes time to heal, but yes, eventually you move on and feel better about yourself.

 

good luck

 

agree

 

*I also have to ask - did you let him in to your apartment? If so, why? what happened when you let him in? Did you sleep with him?

[Spark1111]

He may have loved you, but not in the same way that you loved him.

 

You, like most women, feel that love is one of the most important things in life. That love = sharing a life and future together. We, as women, are very relationship focused. Relationships, whether it be with our romantic partner, our children, our parents, or our friends, are very important to us and take up a lot of our headspace.

 

For many men, love is fleeting. They feel love in that moment, but it is relative to the situation they are in at the time. It may not be a lasting and enduring love kind of feeling, but a feeling of many short love bursts. It is often very "out of sight, out of mind". They will love you fiercely while in your presence, but not think that much about you while busy with other things.

 

They love the way they feel around you, they enjoy your time together, but they feel no responsibility to act on their "love". Love (to them) doesn't mean they want to be with you forever. It means "I love being with you right this minute."

 

Men aren't always prompted to act on their "love", like many women are. They accept love as a feeling, an emotion, but not as a life changing event. They realize that it has an expiration date, and aren't particulary bothered by this fact. They often have a "let's enjoy it while it lasts" kind of mentality.

 

For many men, the commitment to the marriage trumps the feeling of romantic love. They want to keep the marriage and honor their commitment, but miss the excitement of early romance and new sex. In their mind, an OW is the perfect solution to this problem because it allows them to have both.

 

For many MM, having an OW is not a sign that their marriage is failing, but a way to help their marriage succeed. (crazy thinking, I know)

 

They have a sense of duty to their wife and family, and this feeling of responsibility is often much stronger, and constant, then their feelings of romantic love to OW.

 

Great post, QS, as usual.

 

Remember this: When a man truly loves you (and not the way you made him feel for the hour, day, weekend), he does three things:

 

He professes -- tells his friends, his family, his co-workers that he has met "the woman." He cannot stop talking of you.

 

He provides: He wants to take care of you financially, from having your car fixed, to picking up groceries, to not talking, but actually planning the house you will live in together.

 

He protects: No one will harm you, no one; not a bad word or deed will he tolerate against you. He will have your back at all times. You will have to talk him down from punching someone in the nose that disrespects you.

 

It wasn't a lie. You walked into a drama not of your own making. Because you loved him, you projected all your emotions onto him. You saw only what you wanted to see about him. He projected onto you and saw only your very best qualities at all times. He probably thought you'd would understand why he was doing this now upon discovery. He may be shocked to know how hurt and upset you are. You viewed each other though your own prisms of perception during the affair.

 

Do not be so understanding in the future. You have every right to want what you want and need what you need. You have a right to say, NO, this isn't working for me and I want MORE.

 

Love shouldn't hurt. Do not subjugate your needs in the future to be more perfectly percieved by your lover. Be yourself! And you will attract someone who loves and respects you just the way you are.

[SoMovinOn]

Sort of like his wife wasting all those years on her friendship with you? Sort of how his wife wasted all those years on her marriage?

 

You profess to have been a bestfriend to his wife. Do the right thing for once. Tell her he has tried daily to contact you. Quit letting her waste anymore of her life on something that is not true. You know the pain of it. Put a stop to it. You owe her that.

 

Why does she "owe" the W anything?

[SoMovinOn]

Thanks everyone. Def seeing the fundamental problems with trying to use love as a gauge for anything.

 

As for telling W, is that really what I should do? He showed up at my apt before six am, no ring on and has been IMing me. I dont want to intervene or hurt her anymore. For all I know shes told him she wants a D, u know?

 

No. The situation between him and his W is only for them to deal with. You getting involved won't help either of them. At the least, it will do nothing, at the most, it will make things worse. *He* owes her everything - he vowed himself to her. You owe her nothing. Nothing is the best thing you could do for her.

[Spark1111]

If this is what he's doing...yes, you should tell her, and let her know that you want him to stop doing it. Make sure he hears that same message loud and clear as well.

 

I agree!

 

You said the two of you were discovered?

 

Not sure what you meant by that, but is it possible he is trying to minimize a three year relationship with you into a "Whoops, it happened that one time only."

 

What do you think? Do you think it is POSSIBLE that he is minimizing you, the affair, to his BS so she does not hate him....maybe only hates you?

 

You have known this woman for three years and she has not tried to contact you.

 

What do YOU think that means?

[woinlove]

No. The situation between him and his W is only for them to deal with. You getting involved won't help either of them. At the least, it will do nothing, at the most, it will make things worse. *He* owes her everything - he vowed himself to her. You owe her nothing. Nothing is the best thing you could do for her.

 

Why do you think the bolded? Because they are legally married? Would it be different if it were a common law marriage, where they had led each other to believe they had a committed and monogamous R but there were no legal or religious vows? Where does friendship fit in?

 

Ilmhb3 described her and the W as best friends who spent every weekend together. Often one would expect a lot of a best friend as far as loyalty and honesty. The description of a best friend was not completely true and Ilmhb3 only befriended the W after the A started. However, the W didn't know "it was all a lie" (to use the title of this thread) and Ilmhb3 may still have received real friendship. For example, she said the W helped her move into her apartment just before she discovered her with her H.

 

Ilmhb3, you haven't said whether you had real feelings of friendship for the W or if it was just a facade with no feelings on your part. Perhaps it doesn't matter, because much of how we treat others is for ourselves. You acted as her friend and it may be part of your healing to treat her with some kindness now. People will differ on exactly what that is - to leave her completely alone or to give her honesty. It would be almost unheard of for her H to be giving her honesty now, after the unusual depth of deception - three years right under her nose with someone he also pretended was a good friend to her. Someone like that isn't likely to become honest within a few days or weeks even.

 

I would go for honesty and openness. I can't imagine spending years of my life living a complete lie and, without anyone offering her truth, she could spend more years like that. But, perhaps you have to come to that answer - whether to leave her alone or give her honesty - yourself. You are the one who knows her. I do believe trying to think of her, someone who appears to have treated you as a friend and tried to help you, and offering her some kindness could be a part of healing for you.

[SoMovinOn]

Why do you think the bolded? Because they are legally married? Would it be different if it were a common law marriage, where they had led each other to believe they had a committed and monogamous R but there were no legal or religious vows? Where does friendship fit in?

 

In their case, because they were married. Because they stood face to face and made promises and vows to each other.

 

As for where any other relationship fits in - it's between the people involved in the relationship - whatever they have agreed upon, by whatever means they have arrived at that agreement.

 

 

Ilmhb3 described her and the W as best friends who spent every weekend together. Often one would expect a lot of a best friend as far as loyalty and honesty. The description of a best friend was not completely true and Ilmhb3 only befriended the W after the A started. However, the W didn't know "it was all a lie" (to use the title of this thread) and Ilmhb3 may still have received real friendship. For example, she said the W helped her move into her apartment just before she discovered her with her H.

 

As the "friendship" started after the A, it could not ever have been a true friendship as it was based on a lie, trust was already destroyed... it wasn't a friendship, it was part of the coverup of the A.

 

I would go for honesty and openness. I can't imagine spending years of my life living a complete lie and, without anyone offering her truth, she could spend more years like that.

 

She knows the truth. Her H cheated on her, broke his promises and vows. There isn't anything more for her to know about the A which changes any of that.

[NoIDidn't]

As the "friendship" started after the A, it could not ever have been a true friendship as it was based on a lie, trust was already destroyed... it wasn't a friendship, it was part of the coverup of the A.

 

That might be the case for the OP, but the W was not a part of the friendship to help cover up their lies to her.

 

If the OP ever felt any kinship/friendship towards this woman, she should apologize to her friend.

[SoMovinOn]

That might be the case for the OP, but the W was not a part of the friendship to help cover up their lies to her.

 

If the OP ever felt any kinship/friendship towards this woman, she should apologize to her friend.

 

I respect your opinion. I agree with an apology - if the W opens the door for a conversation. I would advise against initiating a conversation with the W, as she may prefer to be left alone.

[Spark1111]

I respect your opinion. I agree with an apology - if the W opens the door for a conversation. I would advise against initiating a conversation with the W, as she may prefer to be left alone.

 

Or, the wife is being fed a whole pack of lies by her WS to ensure that conversation NEVER takes place.

 

That way he can continue to spin and gaslight his version of the truth, which I suspect, casts the OP in a very bad light.

 

Someone who avoids conflict, enough to engage in a three year affair with a woman he and has wife have socialized with often, does not suddenly transform into a beacon of truth telling.

 

I can guarantee that.

[woinlove]

In their case, because they were married. Because they stood face to face and made promises and vows to each other.

 

As for where any other relationship fits in - it's between the people involved in the relationship - whatever they have agreed upon, by whatever means they have arrived at that agreement.

 

 

 

As the "friendship" started after the A, it could not ever have been a true friendship as it was based on a lie, trust was already destroyed... it wasn't a friendship, it was part of the coverup of the A.

 

Perhaps you are right from Ilmhb3's perspective. I wasn't sure and thought maybe it could be more complicated and that she had some feelings for the W after all that time too. But, maybe not. I really don't understand this part as I've never been in a situation anything like this. Maybe it is just all an act with no feelings for the W. Still, from the W's perspective, it might have been real friendship - in fact, it sounds like it was with her helping Ilmhb3.

 

 

She knows the truth. Her H cheated on her, broke his promises and vows. There isn't anything more for her to know about the A which changes any of that.

 

How do you know what the W knows? What she knows is whatever she saw with her eyes when she discovered them, whatever each of them has told her, and whatever else - if anything - she has discovered on her own. That may be very far from the truth. We are talking 3 years of her life and interactions continue between Ilmhb3 and her H which she likely knows nothing about - so the lies could continue indefinitely. Don't you think the W has a right to know about her own life, all those years? Ilmhb3 was part of the entire deception (you feel the whole "friendship" was part of the deception, maybe you are right). Do you think it ultimately will make Ilmhb3 a happier person to continue to hold that deception? This could be part of Ilmhb3's own healing - to extend some openness and honesty to the W who helped her.

[SoMovinOn]

Or, the wife is being fed a whole pack of lies by her WS to ensure that conversation NEVER takes place.

 

I think the W's decision to talk to her is hers to make. What her H tells her or doesn't tell her from this point on doesn't much matter. She busted him cheating. Knowing that much is more than enough.

[SoMovinOn]

How do you know what the W knows?

 

From reading what was posted here. W busted her H cheating. She knows he lied. She knows she was deceived. She knows he broke their wedding vows and promises he made to her. Any additional details, or the lack of them, won't change her knowing that, and, knowing that much, what else does she need to know?

[donnamaybe]

From reading what was posted here. W busted her H cheating. She knows he lied. She knows she was deceived. She knows he broke their wedding vows and promises he made to her. Any additional details, or the lack of them, won't change her knowing that, and, knowing that much, what else does she need to know?

But you said "she knows the truth." Not necessarily. She may know some version of the truth, but often the truth is whitewashed by the cheater into something more palatable to the BS.

[Owl]

From reading what was posted here. W busted her H cheating. She knows he lied. She knows she was deceived. She knows he broke their wedding vows and promises he made to her. Any additional details, or the lack of them, won't change her knowing that, and, knowing that much, what else does she need to know?

 

She needs to know that he's STILL lying, that he's still reaching out to the OP while (apparently) also convincing his wife that he's working on the marriage as well.

[woinlove]

From reading what was posted here. W busted her H cheating. She knows he lied. She knows she was deceived. She knows he broke their wedding vows and promises he made to her. Any additional details, or the lack of them, won't change her knowing that, and, knowing that much, what else does she need to know?

 

For some people any cheating is a deal breaker, as they may believe once a cheater, always a cheater. For such people, I agree there is nothing else to know. However, for many people, they may recognize that cheating can be a symptom of a person dealing poorly with current circumstances (e.g. cheating after a close death, a pregnancy, a severe illness, or some other high stress, is not uncommon). Then knowing the truth can matter a lot.

 

In this case, unless the W walked in on them having sex, it isn't even clear that she knows they have had sex. Or maybe I missed some of her posts.

[Ilmhb3]

Thanks for weighing in everyone.

 

The friendship and A started simultaneously, and while I have carried on in a manner I am very ashamed of, I'm not void of all feeling and did share feelings of friendship w W, and I cant even begin to describe my feelings now of guilt, regret, and remorse. Unfortunately I still love this.man.

 

She received an apology when she came to find H atmy apt after he told her some lie about why he would be out of touch all day. I doubt it meant much to her, understandably.

 

MM CLAIMS to have admitted professing his love to me, the duration of the A, etc. does she know details like his coming straight to my bed Every morning, our out of town trips alone? not likely. Does she know hes still contacting me and saying hes confused about what to do and being afraid of losing both of us? I can almost guarantee she does not. I just don't know that it is my place to interfere any further, even though she absolutely needs to know in order to make the best decision for herself moving forward. she deserves full disclosure, and I feel that should come from her H. She wants me completely out of.her life, deservedly so. I've done MORE than enough damage. I would hate for her to take my candor as an attempt to put the final nail in the coffin of their marriage. Should that happen, it should come from him.

 

I did let him in but we didn't sleep together. He told me he was confused blah blah. I told him best of luck sorting it out.

[Owl]

I would say that it IS indeed still within your scope to inform her that he IS STILL ATTEMPTING TO CONTINUE THE AFFAIR.

 

She probably does not know that, and she certainly should know it so that she can decide how that impacts her choices and actions.

 

Telling her this isn't interfering in their marriage...it's removing his interference from YOUR personal recovery, and it gives the wife critical information she needs to make an informed choice.

 

This is coming from me...a former BS. I would not count this as any kind of interference...but as information I needed to know.

[woinlove]

Thanks for weighing in everyone.

 

The friendship and A started simultaneously, and while I have carried on in a manner I am very ashamed of, I'm not void of all feeling and did share feelings of friendship w W, and I cant even begin to describe my feelings now of guilt, regret, and remorse. Unfortunately I still love this.man.

 

She received an apology when she came to find H atmy apt after he told her some lie about why he would be out of touch all day. I doubt it meant much to her, understandably.

 

MM CLAIMS to have admitted professing his love to me, the duration of the A, etc. does she know details like his coming straight to my bed Every morning, our out of town trips alone? not likely. Does she know hes still contacting me and saying hes confused about what to do and being afraid of losing both of us? I can almost guarantee she does not. I just don't know that it is my place to interfere any further, even though she absolutely needs to know in order to make the best decision for herself moving forward. she deserves full disclosure, and I feel that should come from her H. She wants me completely out of.her life, deservedly so. I've done MORE than enough damage. I would hate for her to take my candor as an attempt to put the final nail in the coffin of their marriage. Should that happen, it should come from him.

 

I did let him in but we didn't sleep together. He told me he was confused blah blah. I told him best of luck sorting it out.

 

Thanks for the further information and explanations. I suspected there might be feelings involved even for the W after spending so much time together. I wish I had advice on that, as it sounds like hell for all concerned, but I've never been through anything like that from any side or even known anyone in real life who has. Perhaps others can be of more help there.

 

I would just say, in general, with feelings of guilt and feeling bad about oneself, I think the key is to figure out why one feels that way (in your case, this is obvious and you already know why) and then making sure one makes changes to be able to honestly feel better of oneself. The latter is not so obvious. What can you do to feel that you are now acting like the kind of person you would like to be -- a kind, compassionate, respectful and honest person?

 

I still think honesty and openness is the way to go. It seems extremely unlikely that MM has told his W what he claims to. If you read the infidelity section, most WS continue to lie after d-day, and this particular WS was especially devious over such a long time. I just can't see him suddenly changing into an honest person. Particularly since he has said he would like to continue to keep both of you. Honesty is not going to allow him to keep both you. A pack of lies to both of you might help him keep that for a while. He didn't chose honesty over his own self-interests in the past, so why would he do it now?

 

As to driving the final nail in the M. Maybe that would happen. But, frankly, I can't see how this man is capable at this time of having a successful, committed R with anyone. I suspect both his W and you would be much better off without him. If not, it is only because he is capable and willing to put in a huge amount of work on changing himself. That will never happen in an environment filled with lies and deceit. So, I don't see how injecting some honesty into the situation is going to be what really kills his M.

[Ilmhb3]

Uugggghhh

 

So he called little bit ago and I answered. He proceeded to tell me how he is having a really hard time "making a decision". Poor baby. Anyway, I said " I thought you said it was wherever she wanted to do". Well he says he has told her about our ongoing conversations and she told him to pick either her or me. He did mention that "she knows enough" when I asked what all he has told her. Makes me inclined to think he is still omitting certain things.

 

He also said something about how he told her that if she was going to be upset and still bringing this up in six months or a year that they should end it now. Doesn't sound like someone who is truly willing to do whatever it takes to work it out if hes telling her what His expected timeframe is for getting through this

 

I'm so confused