Your view on male virginity vs male use of prostitution

[AHardDaysNight]

Woah what a witty guy...

 

Aren't you the guy who women are always friend zoning?

 

Guys like you are the reason american women are the way they are and will never change. Fight against the truth tellers holding women accountable, and still not get any

 

Aren't you the guy who's always posting how women are sh*tty and how they are sluts and full of themselves? Aren't you the one who hates women?

 

Since you hate women, suggesting that you turn gay is not a bad suggestion. Unless you want to start f*cking animals, that is (depends on whether or not you're into bestiality.)

[ChessPieceFace]

It's not at all necessary to tell a woman that you are a virgin, unless you want to.

 

I agree you probably shouldn't announce it to everyone, but you have to admit it's still dishonest and that is bad in its own way. In the end, if I am ever with a girl, I think I will tell her beforehand. If it's a problem for her, then it wasn't meant to be. I just don't believe in dishonesty about something so important, and I'd rather be alone than be a liar.

 

I, personally, would respect a man who was holding out for religious purposes.

 

Is religion required as a reason? Initially, I had religious convictions about it. Now I wouldn't call them religious convictions as I am not really religious and haven't been for years. I do have personal standards of behavior, which have been influenced by religion but also vetted and tested by logic and analysis of the human condition.

 

Simply put: cheap, meaningless sex is for animals, not for evolved human beings who want to be a positive influence on society. It's someone's choice whether they want to live and act like an animal, or set a higher standard for themselves. I support people's right to make that choice, but I certainly don't respect the choice of the former.

 

I haven't met the right girl yet, and I'm not going to just screw whatever female body gives me the time of day. That would be disgusting. I have personal convictions and standards of behavior, of what sex and love are supposed to mean. What they should mean in a healthy individual with a healthy relationship. I don't believe in waiting for marriage, but I do believe in waiting for love. Any girl who is worth anything would understand and respect that. And thus, virgins should just stop worrying about it. (Unless they are virgins who have no ethics and just desperately want a hole to put their penis in... in which case go ahead and lie, cheat and steal to get anything you can, it doesn't matter in your case.)

[Wolf18]

Aren't you the guy who's always posting how women are sh*tty and how they are sluts and full of themselves? Aren't you the one who hates women?

 

Since you hate women, suggesting that you turn gay is not a bad suggestion. Unless you want to start f*cking animals, that is (depends on whether or not you're into bestiality.)

 

More wit from the forum brown noser. Yes if you have a critique about the behavior of women you are : gay/virgin/psychopath/zoophile, never ever heard those before in every nook and cranny of media and culture.

 

I see you got your panties up in a bunch, mangina. Calm down girl, this isn't as serious as the time Brad and Jen broke up so like , stop acting like it.

 

Be my guest, get all huffy and puffy about men who tell it like it is. Women fought tooth and nail to create men like you, not because they like it but because they need someone to bully The men are talking, now please return to painting your toenails with the girl-friends. Maybe if you're lucky the scumbags who are porking your girl-friends will send you a picture.

[KathyM]

I agree you probably shouldn't announce it to everyone, but you have to admit it's still dishonest and that is bad in its own way. In the end, if I am ever with a girl, I think I will tell her beforehand. If it's a problem for her, then it wasn't meant to be. I just don't believe in dishonesty about something so important, and I'd rather be alone than be a liar.

 

 

 

Is religion required as a reason? Initially, I had religious convictions about it. Now I wouldn't call them religious convictions as I am not really religious and haven't been for years. I do have personal standards of behavior, which have been influenced by religion but also vetted and tested by logic and analysis of the human condition.

 

Simply put: cheap, meaningless sex is for animals, not for evolved human beings who want to be a positive influence on society. It's someone's choice whether they want to live and act like an animal, or set a higher standard for themselves. I support people's right to make that choice, but I certainly don't respect the choice of the former.

 

I haven't met the right girl yet, and I'm not going to just screw whatever female body gives me the time of day. That would be disgusting. I have personal convictions and standards of behavior, of what sex and love are supposed to mean. What they should mean in a healthy individual with a healthy relationship. I don't believe in waiting for marriage, but I do believe in waiting for love. Any girl who is worth anything would understand and respect that. And thus, virgins should just stop worrying about it. (Unless they are virgins who have no ethics and just desperately want a hole to put their penis in... in which case go ahead and lie, cheat and steal to get anything you can, it doesn't matter in your case.)

I don't believe in dishonesty either. I just don't think it's necessary for a man to tell a woman he is a virgin. Of course, if he is asked, I wouldn't recommend lying about it. And I agree with you, that cheap, meaningless sex is not a good thing. I respect a man who would value it and want it to be with someone that he loves. Good for you that you have standards for yourself. A lot of men tend to be dogs just looking for a warm place to put it, and any warm place will do.

[udolipixie]

You don't get the fact that most men would to not have to use these tactics in order to avoid being alone and celibate. We wish it were not like this.

 

Still doesn't negate the fact that men use these tactics..manipulation and mind games...to get what they want sex and to be in a position of power in a relationship.

 

If it was a celibacy issue there's prostitutes.

 

If it was a being alone issue there's mail order brides.

 

If it was truly celibacy and being alone that was the motivation these men would hook up with any woman that would take them however what do pua target for men...how to get the women you want and be the powerful one in the relationship...how to get beautiful women.

 

SO it's not about being alone and celibate it's

 

Yeah I get the we wish it wasn't like this. That's not a gender thin it's a people thing most people would like to be able to have whoever they wanted just by breathing.

[udolipixie]

Elysian is by far my favorite poster. He really tells it exactly like it is.

 

I've known women who had everything in common with me. I'm not talking about the guys who see a girl that gives them a boner and pretend they have a lot in common, I mean women who share my same exact hobbies, sense of humor, taste in music, etc, women who were perfect matches (before you say "maybe not perfect for her!!!").

 

Having things in common doesn't mean that they were attracted to you.

 

Most women want personality/good qualities and attraction.

 

Why do most men think that personality can compensate or substitute attraction?

 

I showed all of these women fun, laughter, wisdom, adventure, protection, altruism, kindness, patience. They would always tell me how I was the greatest thing they had in their lives, that they can always count on me, that I'm so amazing, that I always make them smile, BLAH BLAH BLAH. I put my own ass on the line for these women and what did they do ? They simply used me as leverage to **** some guy who had nothing in common with them and didn't like spending time with them, but was better looking. p/QUOTE]

 

That's a people thing not a gender thing. It's no different from a guy using his female friends to get the hot one in the group. Or a guy having a girl whose like his double who he enjoys being around with but she's too fat or pimply.

 

In human nature most want personality and attraction but if given the option to forgo one most would forgo personality and just go after attraction.

 

 

The worst is at some point I gave up on trying to sleep with them, I just wanted some female companionship and friends. And I felt depressed and frustrated when these women who I always around to help were never around when I needed help.

This right here thinks it's the the type of women you seem to be attracting.

 

Why exactly would you want to befriend women like these if they used you as leverage when you were romantically pursuing them?

 

By the way when you were trying to sleep with them did you make them aware of that? Or were you friendly without informing her of your attraction or interest in her? If so they could have mistaken you being friendly as truly wanting to be friends and saw no problem in using you as leverage to get another guy...as they prove to be crappy friends.

 

 

These weren't the trashy women females claim are the only ones who do this. Elysians post about sleeping with a sweet girl reminded me of a few of them. These were all women who were seemingly down to earth, friendly, sweet, loved animals and nature, weren't necessarily into gossiping or anything, but yet , the rules still applied to them.

Not that different from the hoards of guys talking about what gentlemen they are, how nice, sweet, kind, and respectful of women they are....but they only want hot women.

 

THe rules still apply to most. That rule being most people are superficial and while most people want personality & looks if they had to forgo one they'd forgo personality and just go after attraction.

 

 

It's a sour world and the nature of women is one of the most fickle, cold, and indifferent things ever.

That's a people thing not a gender thing.

 

If you're not above average in height, have a good job, are in a band, work out 6 hours a day, or have extremely amazing looks just give up. No matter how good of a guy you are and regardless of what you have to give, women just don't care. Not only will they not sleep with you, but they will also never put you ahead of themselves in any situation no matter how many times you did it for them. The only one who they MAY put ahead of themselves is the one whose putting it in her pie.

 

So you just want sex? Or do you think sex is something that's owed to you for being a decent guy? Should the least women do is give their bodies to some guy they're not attracted to or interested in because hey he's a decent guy.

 

All of that giving up is truly nonsensical. There are plenty of average height guys in relationships. Plenty of non musicians in relationships. Plenty of guys without a job in relationships. Plenty of ugly/average guys in relationships. Plenty of fat/ugly guys in relationships.

 

However who they are in relationships with is the question...what caliber of women are you seeking? If you're pursuing looks don't get upset if you're judged on looks and they don't think you're personality can compensate for it.

[ChessPieceFace]

Still doesn't negate the fact that men use these tactics..manipulation and mind games...to get what they want sex and to be in a position of power in a relationship.

 

Many people lie at interviews to get jobs. And most people at least exaggerate. Do you think that's because most people are inherently dishonest and want to be dishonest, or because they are FORCED to lie to get what they want/need?

 

You know the answer.

 

There are some inherent players and liars out there, who would be so in even in a vacuum. The rest of the guys who are players and liars, are that way because that's what most women demand, and the only way they can have success, or the level of success that they can accept. (As opposed to honest, ethical me, who has never had any success.)

 

So yes, for the most part, it's YOUR fault ladies.

[udolipixie]

Many people lie at interviews to get jobs. And most people at least exaggerate. Do you think that's because most people are inherently dishonest and want to be dishonest, or because they are FORCED to lie to get what they want/need?

 

You know the answer.

 

There are some inherent players and liars out there, who would be so in even in a vacuum. The rest of the guys who are players and liars, are that way because that's what most women demand, and the only way they can have success, or the level of success that they can accept. (As opposed to honest, ethical me, who has never had any success.)

 

Most women don't demand players and liars.

 

A player and liar being successful with women doesn't mean that they are in demand.

 

Just like a b*tch, user, and golddigger being successful with men doesn't mean that they are in demand.

 

Using this demand logic some women can claim that they are sluts because that's what most men demand.

 

The demand logic can be applied to the non inherent female liars and players are that way because that's what demanded for success or the level of success that they accept.

 

After all why go about dating men this way when they can get what they want doing it that way.

 

That is what the non inherent female/male players and liars have done. Sure most will blame their bad behavior on others however the truth is that for most they chose to act this way because they wanted the things that this behavior could give them.

 

 

So yes, for the most part, it's YOUR fault ladies.

 

 

Not at all. It's their fault for their behavior. In that case it's fully their responsbility on how they decide to act. They chose to act that what because they wanted what they defined as success.

 

It's like an unattractive girl blaming men that she wanted for not liking her so she gets surgery and uses her looks to manipulate men.

 

It wasn't about getting a woman so it's not a woman's fault. If it was truly about getting a woman these non inherent players and liar men would hook up with any woman that would take them. Instead they became liars and players because they wanted to have either the lifestyle those types of men have or because they wanted the same type of women and they weren't able to attract them with their personality and looks so manipulation and mind games they went.

 

No different from a girl wanting a lifestyle and choosing to use men as atms to finance it.

[Woggle]

Still doesn't negate the fact that men use these tactics..manipulation and mind games...to get what they want sex and to be in a position of power in a relationship.

 

If it was a celibacy issue there's prostitutes.

 

If it was a being alone issue there's mail order brides.

 

If it was truly celibacy and being alone that was the motivation these men would hook up with any woman that would take them however what do pua target for men...how to get the women you want and be the powerful one in the relationship...how to get beautiful women.

 

SO it's not about being alone and celibate it's

 

Yeah I get the we wish it wasn't like this. That's not a gender thin it's a people thing most people would like to be able to have whoever they wanted just by breathing.

 

It's because many men figure that if they use these tactics at least they will have something. Most men would love to find a normal and sane woman and have a happy and healthy relationship but that is extremely hard these days so they figure if you can't beat em join em.

[Jynxx]

As for prostitution as long as it's done in a place that's legal [...] I'm okay.

 

You do realise the only difference between legal and illegal in this case is just wether or not the governement gets a piece of the pie in the form of taxes, right? Then why does this make a difference?

[denise_xo]

My thing is why is that more okay than being a a virgin or just not getting any for a long time?

 

It's not more OK. I married a virgin. I would NEVER marry a man who had routinely used prostitutes.

[udolipixie]

You do realise the only difference between legal and illegal in this case is just wether or not the governement gets a piece of the pie in the form of taxes, right? Then why does this make a difference?

 

Only difference?

 

I'm aware that is not the only difference.

 

With legalized prostitution vs illegal prostitution the illegal one usually doesn't have std testing, age laws, and women who aren't controlled/mistreated by pimps/drug dealers.

 

I'm not talking about legalization for the purchasers benefits or simply bad if it's illegal thing I'm talking about legalization to benefit the prostitutes. Legalized prostitution usually involves better care and safety for the prostitutes vs illegal.

 

I'd rather someone didn't engage in something criminally punishable whether there's a high chance the possible std-infected person is being mistreated or forced when there's a better and safer alternative that is legal.

[Floridaman]

Is religion required as a reason? Initially, I had religious convictions about it. Now I wouldn't call them religious convictions as I am not really religious and haven't been for years. I do have personal standards of behavior, which have been influenced by religion but also vetted and tested by logic and analysis of the human condition.

 

 

Religious views are a valid reason, and may be something the other may be looking for in his or her mind (you can't read their minds).

As Kathy said, many admire those that wait - or tried to wait.

 

Would hate to think what could have happened to me in my 20s if I hadn't come of faith in college...

Had sex 3-4X in HS (same girl) and could have continued with other women, leaving a wake of broken hearts, possible pregnancies....

 

Simply put: cheap, meaningless sex is for animals, not for evolved human beings who want to be a positive influence on society. It's someone's choice whether they want to live and act like an animal, or set a higher standard for themselves. I support people's right to make that choice, but I certainly don't respect the choice of the former.

That's sound.

I haven't met the right girl yet, and I'm not going to just screw whatever female body gives me the time of day. That would be disgusting. I have personal convictions and standards of behavior, of what sex and love are supposed to mean. What they should mean in a healthy individual with a healthy relationship. I don't believe in waiting for marriage, but I do believe in waiting for love.

Any girl who is worth anything would understand and respect that.

 

And thus, virgins should just stop worrying about it. (Unless they are virgins who have no ethics and just desperately want a hole to put their penis in... in which case go ahead and lie, cheat and steal to get anything you can, it doesn't matter in your case.)

Agreed.

All too often, many less-experienced guys have complexes and think there's something wrong with them when they see others around them in dating and having sex...

They're scared women will LAUGH at them and intimidate them if they discover they're virgins

 

There is absolutely nothing wrong with being a virgin at any age.

 

At 26-29, I dated virgin women my age (or never-married ones in their 30s who had maybe 1-2 sexual encounters) and knew guys who remained virgins into their early 30s. Have a work colleague who's in his 50s and is a virgin, judging by his facebook posts. This guy is well-respected in his field and has a lot of friends, so I don't think there's something wrong with him...

 

I had limited sexual experience before I met my future wife at 30.

Outside of HS, had all of 2 separate encounters 19-30 (so I think most would consider me sexually responsible), but lived like a virgin (mostly by choice and opportunity AND religious guilt) through most of my 20s.

My future wife, who was in her mid-30s when we met, had only one partner 8-10 yrs. before me.

 

We didn't start ML until 4 mos. into our relationship.

Though I had a strong sex drive at 30 and felt like I'd "missed-out" on life, TBH, I didn't want to rush her and wanted our relationship to develop first.

Learned my lesson with another gal during one of my 2 sex. experiences as an adult: http://www.enotalone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=390892&p=4997934&viewfull=1#post4997934

 

Will admit... as a guy, I DID want sex... Wanted to get married primarily and find a life partner.

Women however didn't seem to know I existed and I couldn't find a decent Christian girl to share my life with...

 

 

So..... bec. I had sex too early at 17-18, that somehow makes me better than a 26-30 y.o. guy or gal who hasn't?

Me having the "I've Had Sex" membership card makes me a better dating prospect?

 

There are a lot of misperceptions out there.

 

Virgins aren't necessarily better than non-virgins.

Those who have had sex aren't automatically superior to the virgins.

It's all a matter of opportunities and life choices .... and the kind of person one is.

Edited September 26, 2011 by Floridaman

[Jynxx]

With legalized prostitution vs illegal prostitution the illegal one usually doesn't have std testing, age laws, and women who aren't controlled/mistreated by pimps/drug dealers.

lol, thats the propaganda they throw at you , but you actually believe that? You think drugdealers obey the law and will stop pimping if the governement takes a cut? What happened when gambling became legal in Vegas? The ilegal bookmakers from the past bought or strongarmed themselves pieces of licensed casinos, cheating and hustling continued as before, the social stigma stayed. Nothing changed except the governement got a piece of the action instead of wasting money trying to shut it down, which is impossible in the first place. The exact same thing happens in countries where prostitution becomes legal. Not saying it's a bad thing to have legalized prositution at all, every civilized country should, but thinking underground figures will disappear and health guidelines will be followed is beyond naive.

 

I'm not talking about legalization for the purchasers benefits or simply bad if it's illegal thing I'm talking about legalization to benefit the prostitutes. Legalized prostitution usually involves better care and safety for the prostitutes vs illegal.

[Queen Zenobia]

It's because many men figure that if they use these tactics at least they will have something. Most men would love to find a normal and sane woman and have a happy and healthy relationship but that is extremely hard these days so they figure if you can't beat em join em.

 

Pretty much. This is a classic case though of which came first: chicken or egg. Because I think most women have certain expectations of what experiences a man has had by the time he reaches a certain age (say 21 or so). Because of that some men have resorted to using pua tactics and what not to be able to have a better chance at competing with all the other guys.

 

I'm troubled at where some of the logic in this thread is going particularly from udollpixie. Basically, if you expect men not to lie about sexual inexperience, if you expect them not to use pua tactics to attract women, but you also don't want them to date women for practice (as another poster suggested) the only recourse is for them to date women who are attracted to them regardless of whether or not that attraction is reciprocated. One, that's not fair for the woman who was "settled" for, two, that's kind of a non-starter for most people (who in the world wants to be satisfied with settling?) and three considering most women are not straightforward with interest some of these guys might be waiting a long time to find a girl who would want to date them. That, in my mind is a recipe for disaster.

[Feelsgoodman]

I've noticed guys into "hard" sciences like physics, maths and IT tend to have more trouble connecting with girls. Those tend to contain alot of really smart people. I don't know any really smart "soft scientist" guys (psychologists, economists,...) because I don't have many in my social circle, but I would guess the way of thinking is the dominant factor over the thinking capacity. My opinion, feel free to bring up stats.

 

I guess people who use logic and reasoning to make decisions have a hard time predicting reactions and feelings of people who rely on emotions to make decisions, and oftentimes don't understand why someone acts in some way that's totally irrational.

I don't think anyone would argue that in our society, a typical scientist would have a much harder time getting laid than, say, a typical drug dealer. What it does that say about our value system? I'll leave that up to you to decide.

[somedude81]

Having things in common doesn't mean that they were attracted to you.

 

Most women want personality/good qualities and attraction.

 

Why do most men think that personality can compensate or substitute attraction?

Why do most women think that attraction can compensate or substitute for personality and common interests?

 

OK you have a boyfriend that you are really attracted to but have nothing else in common with. You're going to have a lot of sex and....what else? Heck because your personalities aren't compatible you argue all the time if you spend any time together at all. But hey, at least the sex is good

[AHardDaysNight]

I don't think anyone would argue that in our society, a typical scientist would have a much harder time getting laid than, say, a typical drug dealer. What it does that say about our value system? I'll leave that up to you to decide.

 

If it is a rich scientist, of course he can pay for companionship.

 

What does that say about love, though?

[Floridaman]

Originally Posted by udolipixie

Having things in common doesn't mean that they were attracted to you.

 

Most women want personality/good qualities and attraction.

 

Why do most men think that personality can compensate or substitute attraction?

 

 

Why do most women think that attraction can compensate or substitute for personality and common interests?

 

OK you have a boyfriend that you are really attracted to but have nothing else in common with. You're going to have a lot of sex and....what else? Heck because your personalities aren't compatible you argue all the time if you spend any time together at all. But hey, at least the sex is good

Good points, Somedude.

 

While attraction is great and one should have some kind of attraction to his/her partner, physical looks aren't everything. Methinks personalities and having things in common are more critical.

 

That's why I often advise "inexperienced" guys, the ones who haven't really dated much or are terrible at it (like I once was) to not focus on looks and date as many women as they can (monogomous dating, NOT multiple dating:D), to get experience and to learn what he wants and doesn't want in a girl.

 

The virginity and inexperience/ too much experience things can come up later, and really aren't that important in terms of the broader picture of a guy/gal's worth, relationship compatability, etc.

Edited September 26, 2011 by Floridaman

[In A Rut]

I'm a 22 yr old virgin and I've never once contemplated paying for a Prostitute just so I can lose my v-plates or have sex with a woman. I haven't got a problem with those who do. I would just rather save my money and have sex with a decent woman where there is a strong chemistry and attraction. Despite not fairing greatly in the dating world as of yet, I have attracted numerous women and there have been women who wanted to have sex with me, but I just wasn't interested. Maybe I'm an asexual, maybe I'm gay? I haven't got a problem with women who don't want to date or sleep with a virgin or inexperienced man. That's their choice and they have every right to make that choice without people attacking them for it. As for the woman who sleeps with me first, she won't know I'm a virgin because I won't tell her and if she asks about my sexual history, I'll simply say "I've not had enough sex" with a cheeky wink. There need not be any pressure on myself or on her and let's face it, sex isn't rocket science and humans have been having sex for thousands of years. People just didn't obsess over it back then like they do today.

[grkBoy]

I think some of you guys worry too much about all this.

 

I was a late bloomer, and lost my virginity in my mid-20s. The girl I got into bed with didn't know I was a virgin. The most the conversation went was if I had any STDs and if I had slept with a lot of women. It was the 90s, so I'd like to think people were more honest. I simply said "no" to both of them and told her I didn't sleep around.

 

Was it a lie? No. Not at all. I simply didn't mention that I had never had sex with a woman before...and I don't see how or why any man or woman should have to come out and say all that.

 

Let's be realistic here...most "first time sex" with ANY new person will be awkward and at times come off like it's a first time. When I first had sex with my now fiance it came off that way.

 

The reality is that this moment is when you can really see who this other person is. So you get into bed, that first time ends up being "ok" or even "bad". If she's a good woman, then she'll let it be and see if the next few times end up better. A bad one would dump the guy immediately and claim she wants a "real man". I more then wonder how many men have had her at that point.

 

Even that girl who did a lot of guys before me wasn't that shallow. We had sex several times before things fell apart. I'll admit I didn't do well because I was intimidated at her high number. I still won't say she's shallow or anything bad because she did give me plenty of chances to make it better...although I do think she was a little selfish in bed.

 

 

So what can the older male virgin do? Here's what I think:

 

1. Learn about sex. Watch some "normal" porn and also watch some "Skinemax" type movies. When I say "normal" porn, I mean where it comes off as a couple in love...not two women going ass to mouth on a guy and then eating his feces. See the "mechanics" of it all so you're not totally flying blind. The "Skinemax" stuff is more on how to get the romance into it. Porn tends to be all about pumping hormones, while the romance part of it...the kissing, touching, caressing etc...is what will make you a better lover to many women.
   
2. Masturbate. Put the Bible away or whatever inhibitions you have, and just get yourself off. See what it feels like and how your body works. Not only will this help you learn stamina, but also to figure out how to get yourself off. Just don't become addicted to the porn/masturbation that you end up preferring it over actual women.
   
3. Don't put pressure on yourself. This isn't a high school locker room where you are looked down on for not smoking by age 14 and not drinking by age 16. The one thing that can destroy you in dating is unnecessary pressure. Look how much my dating was a mess until I "freed" myself of the pressure. I stopped worrying if I had someone and if I went through a long dry spell. Just enjoy life and don't worry about this "achievement" thing many live by.
   
4. You don't have to give full disclosure. So let's say it's date 4 and you and the girl end up at her place, kissing, she's taking your clothes off, then she asks if you've slept with a lot of women in your past or had an STD test. Simply do as I did...tell her you don't sleep around. I don't think many women are going to ask for your number...they just want to know you're not diseased and she's not just a notch on your bedpost. Most of my experiences though the question came out AFTER sex.
   
5. Don't worry if the first time isn't "perfect"...just get her off. Like I said, first times even when you're experienced can be awkward as you are both learning about each other. I mainly go in wanting to get her off...so she's feeling satisfied. Try not to worry too much about everything because you might end up limp...but also satisfy her and she'll be back for more.
   

In my late teens, I actually read "Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Sex: But Were Afraid to Ask". It said a lot and made me more knowledgeable. Perhaps all of you should find it or a similar book, and read it.

[Wolf18]

Having things in common doesn't mean that they were attracted to you.

 

Most women want personality/good qualities and attraction.

 

Why do most men think that personality can compensate or substitute attraction?[/Quote]

 

Thank you for admitting it.

 

Most men know that it's all about looks, it's the women who say personality can compensate for attraction. Including the women doing it.

 

Now that it's been said, I don't understand what more these women wanted, none of them were out of my league. My male friends would constantly say how one of them wasn't hot at all and bust my balls for chasing her, but I did anyway and she just didn't want me.

 

Of course, being in my league doesn't guarantee her attraction. But it should. If you are in my league in terms of looks and have that much in common with me and still don't want me , then you deserve to die alone.

 

That's a people thing not a gender thing. It's no different from a guy using his female friends to get the hot one in the group. Or a guy having a girl whose like his double who he enjoys being around with but she's too fat or pimply.

 

In human nature most want personality and attraction but if given the option to forgo one most would forgo personality and just go after attraction.

 

 

[/Quote]

 

I agree, which is exactly unless I'm ****ing a bitch I'm not going to do anything for her. Being nice to women is incredibly fruitless.

 

This right here thinks it's the the type of women you seem to be attracting.[/Quote]

 

Yes, these are the intelligent ones with interests.

 

Why exactly would you want to befriend women like these if they used you as leverage when you were romantically pursuing them?[/Quote]

 

Because I always gave them the benefit of the doubt. Giving a woman the benefit of the doubt is like investing in Enron.

 

By the way when you were trying to sleep with them did you make them aware of that? Or were you friendly without informing her of your attraction or interest in her? If so they could have mistaken you being friendly as truly wanting to be friends and saw no problem in using you as leverage to get another guy...as they prove to be crappy friends.

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The issue was not one about logistics. I did everything by the book. I made my move, was flirty, etc it wasn't a question of not making my interest obvious, they simply thought they were too good for me.

 

That's a people thing not a gender thing.

 

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True, but there are a lot more warm, considerate and selfless men out there than women. The average modern woman is simply a bully whose got something to prove.

 

So you just want sex? Or do you think sex is something that's owed to you for being a decent guy? Should the least women do is give their bodies to some guy they're not attracted to or interested in because hey he's a decent guy.

 

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Actually, you know what, this sounds horrible, but before giving it to the Varsity chlamydia buffet maybe they should *gasp* give it to a decent guy. I know, I'm really talking stone age mentality here, I think women would prefer Sharia law to that .

 

All of that giving up is truly nonsensical. There are plenty of average height guys in relationships. Plenty of non musicians in relationships. Plenty of guys without a job in relationships. Plenty of ugly/average guys in relationships. Plenty of fat/ugly guys in relationships.

 

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Yes but they always have some other trait to make up for it. The average height guy has a lot of money and good looks. Or the non-musician is 6'4. Or the fat/ugly guy is in a band and knows a bunch of celebrities. What about the guys who don't have any woman traits and it's not in our power?

[samspade]

Its two seperate themes i see alot here on LS. Men who are virgins are often shunned. However men who use prostitutes not so much. Where im from thats extremely backwards. I personally could not bring myself to prostitution. Ever. Even on the slowest months i could never do it. Its just too shameful for me.

 

Male virginity on the other hand can be admirable. As long as the person isnt someone who complains about it. And most men who aren't most like screwed women below their standards. So. Whats your thoughts on this?

 

I'm okay with prostitution if it's legal, safe, and regulated. Otherwise, it can be a dangerous and destructive vice. If this country legalized it, and women could freely go into business for themselves (not having to answer to pimps), then I say, if you're hard up and have the money, go ahead. Why should a man be shamed by anyone for satisfying his needs?

[udolipixie]

Thank you for admitting it.

Admitting it...did you seriously go around thinking women don't need or want attraction?

 

 

Most men know that it's all about looks, it's the women who say personality can compensate for attraction. Including the women doing it.

I think guys/girls just exaggerate to the extent that that personality can compensate for attraction...it compensates just a bit..and when she's older...it compensates just a bit more..in general

 

Now that it's been said, I don't understand what more these women wanted, none of them were out of my league. My male friends would constantly say how one of them wasn't hot at all and bust my balls for chasing her, but I did anyway and she just didn't want me.

Are you sure on that?

 

Also just because they were in your league doesn't mean that they have to want you. Plenty of ugly/average guys don't want the girls in their leagues.

 

Most people usually want a partner who has more than what they have.

 

 

Of course, being in my league doesn't guarantee her attraction. But it should. If you are in my league in terms of looks and have that much in common with me and still don't want me , then you deserve to die alone.

 

It should....so all the ugly LS men on here should be attracted to ugly women? All the average LS men on here should be attracted to average women.

 

Plenty of those ugly/average men would fight back against that deserving to die alone comment because most of refuse to date anyone who they do not find attractive regardless of how much they have in common or her personality.

 

Also similar looks and similar common interests doesn't ensure her happiness or attraction so dying alone rather than being stuck and burdened with caring for another person they aren't attracted to or love is not that bad....unless of course this person was rich or they could cheat on him.

 

 

 

I agree, which is exactly unless I'm ****ing a bitch I'm not going to do anything for her. Being nice to women is incredibly fruitless.

Nope being nice and think ing you should be rewarded and get what you want simply because you

 

Do you go to a restaurant and think you'll pay them in niceness after eating a $100 meal? Do you go to get a paycheck and are okay with your employer paying you with niceness?

 

Be nice if you want and have boundaries. Don't be nice to gain what you want especially when what you're really going is substituting or compensating for a lack of something like attraction.

 

 

 

Yes, these are the intelligent ones with interests.

Intelligence with interest doesn't mean anything when I'm talking about type in the form of how one treats others.

 

An intelligent guy can be a jerk and an intelligent girl can be a b*tch.

 

I'm talking about character and how she treats others.

 

 

Because I always gave them the benefit of the doubt. Giving a woman the benefit of the doubt is like investing in Enron.

That's not a gender thing that's a people thing.

 

People who always give others the benefit of the doubt usually end up getting played.

 

Human nature is to exploit and take advantage of the weak. Some rise above it. Some do it if the opportunity arises and it doesn't seem like one more will hurt. Some it just comes naturally to.

 

Your character is enabling this continued cycle seeing as how we can't force others not to use other people.

 

 

The issue was not one about logistics. I did everything by the book. I made my move, was flirty, etc it wasn't a question of not making my interest obvious, they simply thought they were too good for me.

Yep it seems like that's the type you're attracted to or keep attracting.

 

 

 

True, but there are a lot more warm, considerate and selfless men out there than women. The average modern woman is simply a bully whose got something to prove.

Really you took a poll? You know all the men in existence?

 

Also do these warm, considerate, and selfless men have the line of thinking "I'd be such a great father & husband but women are too stupid to pick me"?

^ That's not really all that great of a character but bitter, resentful, condescending, and lacking the decency to treat well anyone who doesn't give him what he wants.

 

Most of these types of guys are truly men who wish they could live in a time where they could get the type of woman they wanted for just having a d*ck. That they just picked out what they wanted because the truly don't want women to be individuals because individuals have opinions and some of those opinions my not be what serves your needs.

 

As for the average modern women being a bully whose got something to prove what about this new trend of the average man?

 

The rising numbers of average modern men who think they are superior creatures & masters of the universe simpply because they have d*cks and the men who created this civilization had d*cks too instead of.

 

The men who think that women are inferior and serve no other purpose but to deposit sperm in to and procreate and even that they are not needed for simply because they share d*cks with past great men and other great men.

 

The men who want to coattail on past great men and other great men actions rather than be judged for their own actions because hey since I've got a d*ck and we share the same genitals we should share the same praise. Yet these men whine and moan about the negative and awful past men and heinous mens actions being applied to them.

 

That's bullying and quite obviously something to prove right there.

 

Actually, you know what, this sounds horrible, but before giving it to the Varsity chlamydia buffet maybe they should *gasp* give it to a decent guy. I know, I'm really talking stone age mentality here, I think women would prefer Sharia law to that .

Stone age mentality? Stone age mentality was that the man bartered for you and you had to protect yourself from getting kidnapped and raped.

 

As giving it to...no one is entitled to have sex with you because you're a decent human being. No one owes you sex and you are not owed sex for your kindness or decency.

 

Most girls want to have sex with: - worst to best for most women-

guys who can give them great pleasure

guys they are attracted to

guys they are in love with

guys they are attracted to and in love with

guys they are attracted to, in love with, and who can give them great pleasure *

 

Seems like you just want a prostitute without having to pay financially. She goes to you and has sex with you because of your decency. Seems ike you're upset that women are individuals and that they may each have a different desire to have sex but you want sex on demand for just being decent. You don't care about their individual desire rather you want someone to change to suit your needs rather than having to waste time to find someone who matches you.

 

In that case why not just find the most unattractive girl you can find? Most severely unattractive girls are happy to be treated decently and shell gladly ave sex with you for just being a decent guy. That way you can have sex for just being a decent human being.

 

Rather than wasting the trouble of finding someone to have sex with because of their individual desire to have sex with you. Since women are too different in their tastes and what you want to have sex for is not really high in demand.

 

Yes but they always have some other trait to make up for it. The average height guy has a lot of money and good looks. Or the non-musician is 6'4. Or the fat/ugly guy is in a band and knows a bunch of celebrities. What about the guys who don't have any woman traits and it's not in our power?

Yep because most people are multiple faceted and have traits that others like enough that the traits that the other person may dislike is diminished.

 

As for the guys who don't have any traits or any combination of traits that any women likes and it's not in their power at all to get those traits then there's p*rn, prostitutes, and mail order brides.

 

Once again no one owes you sex and no one is obligated to have sex with you just because you want them to. With the exceptions of prostitutes are paid but are trying to cheat the customer.

Edited September 26, 2011 by udolipixie

[fortyninethousand322]

 

As for the guys who don't have any traits or any combination of traits that any women likes and it's not in their power at all to get those traits then there's p*rn, prostitutes, and mail order brides.

 

Once again no one owes you sex and no one is obligated to have sex with you just because you want them to. With the exceptions of prostitutes are paid but are trying to cheat the customer.

 

I watch porn and as much as it helps to deal with the loneliness, it really doesn't replace that feeling of being wanted and having someone actually like you. I know it's crazy but neither does prostitution (besides the fact that it's illegal in most places in the U.S.). And mail order brides are incredibly risky, and expensive.

 

I think a lot of bitterness comes from the fact that society (or adults in our lives growing up) lied to us. I always thought that going to school, getting good grades, getting that college degree and a decent job (hopefully and eventually a good job) were things one had to take care of in order to get a girlfriend assuming you were at least average to above average looking (i.e. you didn't look like some kind of goblin). Being well rounded and funny was supposed to help too. Sadly, that was a crock of bull. A guy has to have confidence, he's got to approach women he's got to get rejected a bunch of times and he's supposed to be "the man". If you're shy or somewhat slow to get out of your shell too bad, you're locked out of the dating game, especially if you wait too long to try to break free.

 

Compared to me women have all the power, they decide whether I'm worthy or not. They decide whether a date happens or a relationship happens or whatever. Not me. I'm not in charge of it. Certain men were just not meant to have someone in their lives. Struggling to try to change it is pointless. I don't feel bad for most women who have trouble dating because from my perspective they largely brought it on themselves.