Your view on male virginity vs male use of prostitution

[Mrlonelyone]

Ok for every woman like your sister, I have known 10 who say they are that way....then end up with a dirt bag (possibly a "reformed" dirt bag.)

 

Plus as a transgender woman I know I have had sex with plenty of men who pretended to be godly the rest of the time.

 

If you put your faith in the hypocrisy of man you will never be disappointed.

[Floridaman]

There are people out there who can control themselves, believe it or not, and who want to live a Godly life. I know many of them.

I know a 31 y.o. virgin man who's dating an older divorced woman.

From what I can tell, they're not sexually involved.

 

He never really dated until now, and they've been dating for a year or so.

How do I know he's a virgin? He told me he only went on 1-2 single dates in his 20s.

 

She's been married a couple of times and has an older teenage child living with her, and the two of them are involved in the church.

They could be having sex and that's understandable, but I'm not going to ask From all outward appearances, they're not having sex.

 

It's none of my business really, as I didn't always adhere to celibacy before marriage. Far easier to inquire about such things on relationship boards than real life.

 

Also happen to know a man in his mid-50s who's likely a virgin.

Don't know him closely, but I suspect he's a virgin as he recently posted on facebook about how "...the only woman who ever gave him attention was a drunk girl at a bar..."

Commenting on some news item involving a celebrity, said he never had a HS GF and still doesn't have one...

 

This guy is very successful in his field, everyone respects him, he's considered the authority, but may be shy. He did have a weight problem (not obese, but overweight). Some wouldn't call him good-looking.

He's lost a lot of weight lately, though.

He lives in a small town in a rural state, so the pool of eligible single women his age may be low...

Edited October 20, 2011 by Floridaman

[KathyM]

While those women are indeed nice, aren't they still very much in the minority?

 

Also, aren't religious events usually for....religious purposes? The majority of men and women I know that attended these events weren't there to attract anyone.

In the general population, those women are in the minority. At religious events, those women are the vast majority. That's why I've said before on this mb that if you want to find quality women, you go to where quality women can be found. It's not at the bar. And you are right that religious events are meant to spread the gospel and provide spiritual inspiration, but finding people to connect with spiritually and emotionally is also something you can get from that. My own son found a wonderful group of lasting friends from a religious retreat. He also found his wife from a similar group while in college (he recently graduated and marrried her). The man I referred to previously who went to such a group for the sole purpose of meeting women is middle aged, but he did meet her when in his mid or late 20s, I believe. It's something to consider if you want to meet quality people.

[KathyM]

Ok for every woman like your sister, I have known 10 who say they are that way....then end up with a dirt bag (possibly a "reformed" dirt bag.)

 

Plus as a transgender woman I know I have had sex with plenty of men who pretended to be godly the rest of the time.

 

If you put your faith in the hypocrisy of man you will never be disappointed.

I can't argue with you that there are some hypocritical people. There are also a lot of people with good intentions, but end up doing things they regret. Christians are not saints. They are human, and subject to the same temptations as the rest of the population, but for many of them, their faith guides them to make better choices in their life that gets them where they want to be for the long term.

[dasein]

Women are more likely to read material about how to better relate to men or themselves. (Self Help books).

 

The entirety of the gigantic female relationship self-help industry including magazines, tabloids, books and noxious television gurus (you know the stuff you all waste infinite amounts of time dwelling on instead of doing anything worthwhile) is not one whit better than Maxim or Playboy, likely worse. If you learn nothing else from this thread at least learn that. In fact, Playboy is a pretty good source of sound advice for men and always has been.

[dasein]

Wanted to add that most women have no problem judging men for using prostitutes and judging men for not having enough sexual experience simultaneously, as long as they are judging men, which seems to be their favorite pastime. This whole discussion would go away without women's capacity for judging others. Prostitution would be legal, regulated and lucrative to any government not shackled by feminized judgment.

 

Same could be said for DUI laws v cellphone use in cars. Easy to put drinking drivers under the jail because less women drink and drive (they ride with men when drinking more). Hard as hell to get talking on cellphones while driving, much more impairing than driving drunk, regulated because it hits women where they live. They have no problem judging, and simultaneously cannot tolerate any judgment of their favored behaviors whatsoever.

 

It's why threads like this go on forever. Female posters here categorically refuse to admit even noncontroversial things that paint women or certain women in a less than perfect light. Get them in a brunch crowd though and listen to them pontificating about the flaws of whatever hen isn't present at the hen party. They love to judge yet can't stand any judgment whatsoever directed their way. Hell it's why most of these gender threads are so long. Most men, when faced with a judgment about the male gender that doesn't apply to us, simply say, who cares, that ain't me. Women are incapable of this and personalize and internalize everything said whether it applies to them individually or not.

 

I mean really, if a woman wants to sell sex and a man wants to buy it, who are you to have an issue with that transaction between two consenting adults? There is lots of consensual sex going on everywhere, lots of it is defacto transactional in nature. Who the hell are you to tell people what they can and can't do with their personal lives so long as those actions don't affect your life any more than all the casual sex already going on does?

[Floridaman]

If I had to resort to manipulating women, I've lost everything that I respect about me being a man.

A guy shouldn't have to manipulate or play games with a woman to get her to date him. Or play games while dating the woman.

 

He should be wise, however, and learn how to handle himself in dating.

 

Guys new to dating:

Please look into No Contact and being Non-Chalant in dating.

 

Acting nonchalant or indifferent could help and could be a good strategy for any man or woman pursuing a relationship.

No-contact is to give you strength when the other dumps you.

 

DramaLama has some good resources on nonchalance and no contact..

http://www.enotalone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=371897

 

This thread on "Nonchalance is your friend" explains the benefits of playing it cool, not acting like this other person you're dating is "the one," acting like you can live without him or her, etc.

http://www.enotalone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=224140

 

It's a big long thread, but when I read it, I saw myself in many of the posts there and some of the wrong things I did when I dated in my 20s.

 

You inexperienced guys, don't go to thinking once you start dating things will go fine.

We inexperienced guys, the ones who weren't so great at dating, tend to latch-onto the first woman we get into a stable relationship with.

Date several months or longer.

Then she changes her mind and it devastates our fragile emotions.

 

If you use Non-Chalance in your dating, will learn how to protect your heart from the other and remain cool and confident.

 

So the person you're dating gets upset about something and tells you he or she's not ready for this?

Just get up and walk away.

Men and women are often attracted to what they don't have. The push-pull theory. Just one example.

 

Know there are threads on these topics on LS, but pointing to the ENA threads as I'm more familiar with them. Plus, the ENA threads don't "lock up" after 60 days of inactivity.

 

(I point to LS in the ENA threads as well).

Edited October 21, 2011 by Floridaman

[123321]

The thing with prostitution is that many men from all circles of life pertain in it. Anywhere from jobless men to doctors and lawyers.

 

I'm not sure what you're saying here, doctors and lawyers are an intrinsic part of prostitution? Or maybe you are trying to tell us you like to use words you don't understand?

 

 

 

I really really wished that things worked that way. But no they don't.

 

Emotional connection without trying to get laid = sexless buddy.

 

But the woman gets a connection, admiration, maybe some free coffee and a lot of her other needs met so really that's what's important.

 

 

 

If someone works in IT and is a computer major, or an engineer, they are pretty smart.

 

Look at the guys on The Big Bang Theory? Yeah sure, those are stereotypical nerds, but in real life they wouldn't be sleeping with girls. They would be the outcast, the loner.

 

Um, gonna call BS on this one, as in, "IT'S JUST A SHOW". In real life IT and comp sci people are well paid professionals who are often dating or married to hotties.

[AHardDaysNight]

I suppose giving up on obsession, and living your life for you, is the key to happiness?

 

After all, I was perfectly happy before I realized that I was a freak for being a virgin. Perhaps I need to do some backpedaling?

 

Irregardless, I am through worrying about it. Things will be what they'll be. I know I would make a good boyfriend. Those circumstances don't change, no matter what a girl might think personally about me. I have a lot of love to give.

[Cracker Jack]

In the general population, those women are in the minority. At religious events, those women are the vast majority. That's why I've said before on this mb that if you want to find quality women, you go to where quality women can be found. It's not at the bar. And you are right that religious events are meant to spread the gospel and provide spiritual inspiration, but finding people to connect with spiritually and emotionally is also something you can get from that. My own son found a wonderful group of lasting friends from a religious retreat. He also found his wife from a similar group while in college (he recently graduated and marrried her). The man I referred to previously who went to such a group for the sole purpose of meeting women is middle aged, but he did meet her when in his mid or late 20s, I believe. It's something to consider if you want to meet quality people.

 

Would it be wrong to go to these events if you're not overly religious? Do you know of any other good places to meet quality women? I'm just trying to see all of the available options.

[123321]

I have a lot of love to give.

 

1. You were probably raised by your mother.
2. She owes you an apology.

 

I might be wrong but SOMEONE put some really odd ideas in your head.

[Floridaman]

Would it be wrong to go to these events if you're not overly religious? Do you know of any other good places to meet quality women? I'm just trying to see all of the available options.

Cracker,

I wouldn't see any harm in attending.

 

These church singles groups aren't like "revival services" where people get up and "speak in tongues" or say or do things that may make others uncomfortable.

 

These are likely small groups or classes with people of similar interests (i.e. singles).

The ones I attended were simple discussions on life issues (not necessarily doctrine or divisive issues). No judgemental preaching or attacking of others.

 

I don't think there's any "requirement" that one adhere to a particular group's beliefs. All are welcome.

 

Will acknowledge I am a Christian now, and was when I was younger, though I wavered and wasn't so enthusiastic or faithful about things, and didn't attend services much in my mid-late 20s.

Sayin' that bec. I wasn't as overly religious as I'd once been, and had eased-up on some things.

So yeah, you should feel welcome.

Edited October 21, 2011 by Floridaman

[joystickd]

Why even have a conversation about paying for it? There a women that would give you the goods for free.

[Floridaman]

I suppose giving up on obsession, and living your life for you, is the key to happiness?

 

After all, I was perfectly happy before I realized that I was a freak for being a virgin. Perhaps I need to do some backpedaling?

 

Irregardless, I am through worrying about it. Things will be what they'll be. I know I would make a good boyfriend. Those circumstances don't change, no matter what a girl might think personally about me. I have a lot of love to give.

Beatles Guy,

Your life is your own. You own it.

You should have nothing to be ashamed of.

 

No one's a freak for being a virgin in their mid- or late 20s.

Or.at.any.age really.

 

It sounds like you're basing your self-worth on what others think.

 

Someone who's an older virgin may be waiting for the right person, have religious values, want first-time sex to be special, may not have had opportunities others had, may have been a late-bloomer, or many other reasons.

 

No real reason for one to think less of him/herself.

 

Like Kathy posted, many (I'd say most) women wouldn't think less of a guy not having "experience."

Think of it, would you as a guy really think "less" of the woman you're dating if you discovred she hadn't given herself to a guy yet?

I'd view that as something special, and says something about a man/ woman's life experience and their values.

 

That 30 y.o. virgin I dated @26, she telling me she was a virgin didn't come up early in our dating. She volunteered that info. I don't think I asked.

I was astonished, as I assumed most women would have had some sex by 30.

I didn't think less of her and thought it was good she had some standards.

Respected her for that and didn't press her on it, as I really wanted a relationship more than a sexual experience.

 

 

One thing more:

Some weren't virgins in their 20s (had limited experience) but have regrets and wish they were.

Edited October 21, 2011 by Floridaman

[AHardDaysNight]

1. You were probably raised by your mother.
   
2. She owes you an apology.
   

 

I might be wrong but SOMEONE put some really odd ideas in your head.

 

Thanks a lot. I'm sorry...should I have said that I have a lot of HATE to give?

 

I am so sorry for believing in love. Forgive me!

[Floridaman]

Thanks a lot. I'm sorry...should I have said that I have a lot of HATE to give?

 

I am so sorry for believing in love. Forgive me!

 

BeatlesGuy,

You do have a lot to give a woman. Don't listen to what others say on that. Keep your confidence. It's easy to get down on yourself.

[123321]

I mean really, if a woman wants to sell sex and a man wants to buy it, who are you to have an issue with that transaction between two consenting adults? There is lots of consensual sex going on everywhere, lots of it is defacto transactional in nature. Who the hell are you to tell people what they can and can't do with their personal lives so long as those actions don't affect your life any more than all the casual sex already going on does?

 

All great questions.

 

 

 

 

Thanks a lot. I'm sorry...should I have said that I have a lot of HATE to give?

 

I am so sorry for believing in love. Forgive me!

 

And the predictable feminized response.

 

Find a good male role model and learn what it is to be a man from him. It has nothing to do with having a lot of hate to give, but it also has nothing to do with repeating female platitudes like "I believe in love" and "I have a lot of love to give". Those might be true but so what? So does a dog. So does her best friend.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

The entirety of the gigantic female relationship self-help industry including magazines, tabloids, books and noxious television gurus (you know the stuff you all waste infinite amounts of time dwelling on instead of doing anything worthwhile) is not one whit better than Maxim or Playboy, likely worse. If you learn nothing else from this thread at least learn that. In fact, Playboy is a pretty good source of sound advice for men and always has been.

 

There are a number of self help books that I believe are quite harmful to women...such sado maschoist pieces of advice like "He's just not that into you" get media attention not because of their health but because the way it talks to its female audience. Women mistake this kind of hardcore down talk as "truth", when in reality, it's just sad masochist stuff that some women eat up because they already feel over whelmed with their place in the world.

 

HOWEVER, there are a number of good books out there too. But to say that Playboy gives good advice for men is baffling and really kind of sad on your end. Playboy is about photoshopped 18 year olds. I fail to see how anytying playboy says is a good and fair repensentation of real women. However, if you want to continue to buy that lie, please go ahead. At least you will have magazines to keep you warm.

[AHardDaysNight]

BeatlesGuy,

You do have a lot to give a woman. Don't listen to what others say on that. Keep your confidence. It's easy to get down on yourself.

 

You're absolutely right.

 

I've seen so many guys, happily married guys, end up in relationships when they started from not believing in themselves, or being inexperienced, or...whatever.

 

I fail to understand how my mother raised me to be involuntarily celibate? Plenty of guys have single mother parents, and they end up as fathers and husbands.

 

It's just insulting that he has a go at my mother, and also has a go at me for believing in love. What a load of bull!

 

And the predictable feminized response.

 

Find a good male role model and learn what it is to be a man from him. It has nothing to do with having a lot of hate to give, but it also has nothing to do with repeating female platitudes like "I believe in love" and "I have a lot of love to give". Those might be true but so what? So does a dog. So does her best friend.

 

Um, having sex with a dog would equal bestiality, and is illegal? So...come again?

 

You are simply a troll, and are going on ignore. Notice the word "feminized." Dude, you're just as bad as the rest of these guys that rant on here about women...the only difference is you have some experience with women, and I have none. You are still bitter!

 

There are a number of self help books that I believe are quite harmful to women...such sado maschoist pieces of advice like "He's just not that into you" get media attention not because of their health but because the way it talks to its female audience. Women mistake this kind of hardcore down talk as "truth", when in reality, it's just sad masochist stuff that some women eat up because they already feel over whelmed with their place in the world.

 

HOWEVER, there are a number of good books out there too. But to say that Playboy gives good advice for men is baffling and really kind of sad on your end. Playboy is about photoshopped 18 year olds. I fail to see how anytying playboy says is a good and fair repensentation of real women. However, if you want to continue to buy that lie, please go ahead. At least you will have magazines to keep you warm.

 

Anybody who says they read Playboy for the articles is LYING!

[KathyM]

 

 

 

I mean really, if a woman wants to sell sex and a man wants to buy it, who are you to have an issue with that transaction between two consenting adults? There is lots of consensual sex going on everywhere, lots of it is defacto transactional in nature. Who the hell are you to tell people what they can and can't do with their personal lives so long as those actions don't affect your life any more than all the casual sex already going on does?

That's the law, dear boy. In the United States and various other countries, prostitution is illegal, and there is good reason for that. The law is meant to protect society. Prostitution is illegal because it spreads disease, it exploits women, it corrupts society. Even in countries where prostitution is legalized, it is still damaging to society. It still spreads disease. Even when the women who work in brothels are tested regularly for STDS, the johns that they use are never tested, and can transmit an STD, which the prostitute then goes on to transmit to other customers before it can ever be detected by medical tests. Then those johns go on to transmit them to their wives and gfs. Anywhere from 85% to 100% of prostitutes have had at least one STD, and some are not curable, and some are transmittable, even in the dormant stage. Prostitutes in countries where it is legalized also suffer from abuse by clients. It's a nasty thing for all concerned. Most women who are in that business are beaten and degraded at times. Not a good thing for society. Maybe it doesn't affect my own personal life, but it has affected my friend's life and family in an extremely negative way. So I will speak out against it, but my main debate here is that for men who are seeking a relationship with a woman, seeing a prostitute is not going to result in that. There are plenty of women who would not hold it against a man if he wasn't experienced or was a virgin. But they would hold it against him if he went to a prostitute, because that shows lack of character and lack of respect for women and for himself.

[KathyM]

I suppose giving up on obsession, and living your life for you, is the key to happiness?

 

After all, I was perfectly happy before I realized that I was a freak for being a virgin. Perhaps I need to do some backpedaling?

 

Irregardless, I am through worrying about it. Things will be what they'll be. I know I would make a good boyfriend. Those circumstances don't change, no matter what a girl might think personally about me. I have a lot of love to give.

Actually, according to the psychology gurus, the key to happiness is not living your life for you, it's living your life for others. Getting involved in things outside of yourself and your own needs. Giving of oneself for the benefit of others and the benefit of society. That is where true happiness comes from.

[OnyxSnowfall]

Actually, according to the psychology gurus, the key to happiness is not living your life for you, it's living your life for others. Getting involved in things outside of yourself and your own needs. Giving of oneself for the benefit of others and the benefit of society. That is where true happiness comes from.

 

I agree with this (to an extent).

 

It is also a very good way to distract yourself from your own problems and to avoid dealing with them.

 

There's a healthy balance of both thinking of and helping one's self and others in there...

[KathyM]

Would it be wrong to go to these events if you're not overly religious? Do you know of any other good places to meet quality women? I'm just trying to see all of the available options.

No, it's not wrong. Many people who are not especially religious go there to socialize with others and connect with others. You will find people there in all stages of their spiritual growth, and even people who have no spiritual beliefs but were prompted to go by someone they know. Go ahead and try it. Stick with it for awhile. Maybe try a few different places and see which places you feel most comfortable with. You could meet good friends, both male and female, as well as potential women to date, and you may even be inspired by the Word of God while you're there. Try it. Lots of people I know who didn't start out religious started going to such groups and met a lot of good friends there as well as people they later started to date. As far as other good places to meet single women, what has been successful for people I know is certain dating websites, like EHarmony and Plenty Of Fish. Also meet up groups for singles that focus on various activities. There are a lot of them. Lots of fun activities involved. Just google meet up groups and that will probably bring up some possibilities. Of course, taking classes, getting involved in volunteer opportunities, developing your own hobbies where you could join groups and clubs that would share those hobbies are good possibilities. I think Floridaman had some good suggestions earlier on this thread.

[123321]

That's the law, dear boy. In the United States and various other countries, prostitution is illegal, and there is good reason for that. The law is meant to protect society. Prostitution is illegal because it spreads disease, it exploits women ...

 

First, it opens women to be exploited BECAUSE it's illegal. If their work is legal they can then avail themselves of all the legal remedies available to other lines of work. Where it is illegal, they are second class citizens and cannot avail themselves of full legal protections like everyone else.

 

Second, people are having SEX! Oh my word! Nothing you went on a diatribe about is unique to prostitution as opposed to the other rampant forms of promiscuity so unless you want to make sex outside marriage illegal your arguments are null and void.

 

Finally, given the above, there is NO REASON it should be illegal to sell something it's legal to give away.

 

 

People who are against prostitution are either really against extra-marital sex, are women who dislike the competition, or are bandwagoning with the opinion that will buy them the most pats on the head.

[OnyxSnowfall]

Finally, given the above, there is NO REASON it should be illegal to sell something it's legal to give away.

 

Not my words but:

 

Not everything is meant to be profited from.

 

Come on.

Edited October 21, 2011 by OnyxSnowfall