Nexus One Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 also, isn't it dehumanizing to behave like a mannequin... waiting to be "used" and then put back for some more? Maybe, but what I'm most concerned with is that they go stand in front of that window out of free will and that they're safe. There are many jobs that are dehumanizing, but as long as a person has a choice NOT to do that type of work, then their own perspective on the matter is what really counts. Link to post Share on other sites
somedude81 Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Most prostitution in the US is all done online. Woman posts an add online. Men call or text her to make an appointment. He goes to her place of vice versa, money is exchanged for services and they go their separate ways. No middle-man needed. Link to post Share on other sites
OnyxSnowfall Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 (edited) On prostitution though, do you honestly think that anti-Prostitution laws actually help keep people from being prostitutes? Do you think that if Prostitution were to become legal today, that there would be a dramatic increase in the number of abused or assaulted prostitutes? Would there be a huge uptick in the amount of men who use prostitutes? I don't. Depending upon how much it would cost...................... I definitely think more people would visit prostitutes if it were fully legal and socially acceptable (here). I definitely think more people would become them, too. It would also provide an illusion of safety and security. People can perceive it however they want, but the heart of it does not change. With that said, I think it's possible for the overall abuse to increase --- even if it's only limited to profit. It could be said that some men may not even use it at all anymore --- having been drawn by the "dirty" and "dangerous" aspects... but I've talked with many men whom are deterred by the possible consequences and associations (and traveling expenses to avoid them). Talk is relative, nonetheless. Edited October 21, 2011 by OnyxSnowfall Link to post Share on other sites
OnyxSnowfall Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 (edited) Maybe, but what I'm most concerned with is that they go stand in front of that window out of free will and that they're safe. There are many jobs that are dehumanizing, but as long as a person has a choice NOT to do that type of work, then their own perspective on the matter is what really counts. I don't want to view them as objects, and that is the only way I can imagine myself being "okay" with it. "They deserve it"... "Their choice"... "That's all they're good for"... "Who cares what and or who they are"... "As long as I get what I want"... "They have to deal with it, not me"... .......... and I think it's an injustice to the ones who don't feel like they have a choice, to presume they all choose it and everything is well and dandy (when, if you look deeper into the Netherlands, that just isn't the case. Even with euthanasia, which I am for .... there is "corruption") --- There certainly are other dehumanizing jobs........... I don't think many people are really doing the work their soul desires, nonetheless... there are too many people who are essentially "unwanted" by their society --- and they are going to keep pouring into the world....... despite the way things are....... and for what? Really.... what does it amount to............. Regardless, I think very few people truly desire, in and of itself, to let random people have sexual access to their bodies without much discrimination etc... if you don't think it is profoundly damaging, then I guess you haven't experienced what it's like. Perhaps there are people who come out of it "in tact" and capable of having healthy relationships and of being BENEFICIAL and helpful to people and the world around them... but they are the exceptions... in the end, it's just one of many things that are damaging. Edited October 21, 2011 by OnyxSnowfall Link to post Share on other sites
Nexus One Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 (edited) It would also provide an illusion of safety and security. People can perceive it however they want, but the heart of it does not change. With that said, I think it's possible for the overall abuse to increase --- even if it's only limited to profit. Look at the difference for example between the war on drugs in the US, Mexico and Columbia and how things are going in The Netherlands and Germany. In the former there are literally wars going on, thousands of people get killed because the hardcore criminal organizations run things and protect their "business" from law enforcement. The type of men involved in those wars are very scary men. Not sure if you've been following the news regarding Tijuana and the war there. People hardly can walk the streets there without having to dodge machine gun fire. http://bit.ly/nDJl5y They arrested men there who killed 300 other men, they arrested murderers who beheaded women and cut their guts out and then hung them on a bridge for everyone to see. THOSE are the kind of men that are involved in hardcore criminal organisations. It's not much different in human trafficking and prostitution. (which are often both closely linked) In The Netherlands and Germany there are no such large issues. The Red Light District is pretty safe to walk through, there is police patrolling and everyone can see everyone. Buying drugs is also very public, it's like going into an ice cream bar and picking "a flavor". While I agree with you that behind the scenes things can be grim, the large and aggressive criminal organisations are either not running the show there or they've conformed to the law and became milder and legal version of themselves. I agree with you that it's probably not real control, but "control". However in that way it IS tempered and milder overall. (I'm not talking about individual cases, but in larger terms) Like I said, whether one likes it or not, it will always be there. There's no stopping it. The harder they fight it, the harder the criminals will fight back, the higher the price rises, the more money they make, the harder it becomes to fight them. It's an endless circle. Edited October 21, 2011 by Nexus One Link to post Share on other sites
OnyxSnowfall Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 (edited) It's true, this world is already doomed LoL, and legalizing drugs could sadly provide more "peace" than not........... but too often people trade what's right in order to just "live". Legalizing prostitution may very well "quell" that type of darkness enough too. Fighting it is too crazy, after all. One cannot possibly enforce what is truly right --- it will cease to know itself. These cycles are only "immortal" because of the justifications on BOTH ends of the spectrum (and all in between)... but alas, it cannot be tackled as a whole... not realistically. And it would take a great amount of bloodshed before things could be stabilized into what is right, not to mention a powerful consensus who determines what that is............ and who can ever maintain it? What, through-out history, has been "successful" and spilling over in morals, care and sense? I guess I'm having a hard time "forsaking obliquity" and ignoring "fatuity". I don't want my OWN to be enabled.......... and clearly, it has been, but it's been called out and... thank you Nexus & QZ, heh. Edited October 21, 2011 by OnyxSnowfall Link to post Share on other sites
Wolf18 Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 The arguments against prostitution are ridiculous. If you want to ban prostitution, you better ban this type of stuff too http://www.sugardaddymeet.com/ If you ever dated a guy for material posessions (whether he gives them to you or owns them), job prospects (women used to go to university to meet men, and there's a reason why) or status he has, you are philosophically, no different from a prostitute. The only difference is prostitutes don't lie to themselves or to men. God bless hookers Picking and choosing your outrages when western civilization is such a spiritual and moral slum is just stupid. Link to post Share on other sites
AHardDaysNight Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Onyx, you are a cute girl. You have no issues with dating, because you just have to walk out the door and you get interest. It's much, much harder for ugly and average looking men. We tend to get ignored. Add in whatever the poets call "game", and a lot of us realized a long time ago that we just don't have it, and never will have it. If you want to criminalize prostitution, you should also criminalize women who reject men for not being tall enough, or being fat, or being geeky, or being shy/quiet, or [insert stupid reason here.] Women have ridiculous standards. Men just want to be loved. Is it any wonder that women are always on here complaining about players? If they go after the same kind of man, over and over again, the lonely guys who get left out have a reason to complain, too! Link to post Share on other sites
Wolf18 Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Onyx, you are a cute girl. You have no issues with dating, because you just have to walk out the door and you get interest. It's much, much harder for ugly and average looking men. We tend to get ignored. Add in whatever the poets call "game", and a lot of us realized a long time ago that we just don't have it, and never will have it. If you want to criminalize prostitution, you should also criminalize women who reject men for not being tall enough, or being fat, or being geeky, or being shy/quiet, or [insert stupid reason here.] Women have ridiculous standards. Men just want to be loved. Is it any wonder that women are always on here complaining about players? If they go after the same kind of man, over and over again, the lonely guys who get left out have a reason to complain, too! Pretty much. If prostitution were legal and affordable I wouldn't give a flying **** what women do. I've already learned to live without women but the issue is that I am a virile 22 year old and pornography isn't doing the job anymore. It would be a nice bonus to have a girl that cares or loves me, but in the long run I don't really care. All I want is sex at this point, woman dictators want to say this isn't a "right" and if you're not 6 feet tall or a millionaire you don't deserve to have sex, but I disagree, for men atleast it's a very powerful physical impulse. I'm sure there is a lot of statistics out there that correlate unsatiated male sexual needs with poor health, mental illness, etc, so this could even be seen as a health crisis. Link to post Share on other sites
AHardDaysNight Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 (edited) Nevermind. Enough of the negativity. Positivity needed! Edited October 21, 2011 by AHardDaysNight Link to post Share on other sites
Disenchantedly Yours Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Loveshack positivity or real positivity? Loveshack positivity: All young women are b*tches that just use men! All old women are b*tches that are used up by men! Real positivity: Young men and women are beautiful! Old men and women are beautiful! Link to post Share on other sites
Floridaman Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 (edited) I just want to experience sex, too. I am desperate, and I think it shows in all my interactions with women. Look, I'm facing the big 3-0 in a little over a year. When I was 18, I gave myself a timeline: I would kill myself if I turned 30 and wasn't married. You see the hazards of setting timelines or deadlines? Deadline-setting may be better set later, like in late 20s. I have even neglected my appearance recently. I mean, what's the point? I take showers, shave, put on deodorant and cologne, comb my hair, and put on fashionable clothing... Don't start neglecting your personal appearance. Just like women never leave home without makeup. Your appearance is your "store front" (to keep this in line with the prostitution thread:D). Edited October 22, 2011 by Floridaman Link to post Share on other sites
123321 Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Basically a government granted monopoly. Yes, essentially a limited monopoly to help ensure artists and inventors don't have to completely rely on the system of patronage, with a goal of ensuring the public can benefit from their art and invention, however we seem to be losing sight of the core goal lately. Yup, essentially the same thing. Besides, a woman (or I suppose a man) should have the right to sell her own body for sexual services and people should have the right to buy said services. Who are we to say they can't? If it's legal for her to give it to whoever she wants, it should be legal for her to ask for remuneration. Not saying it's a marvelous career path but it's just not anyone else business to interfere. Taxi driving isn't a wonderful career path either. People also don't know what's best for them or others... And yet you seem to think you do know what's best for others. Yes, because it's so easy to make prostitution "safe" Much like it's easy to make joining the Army and going to war safe for young men from poor backgrounds who feel this is their best option to improve their station in life. Why not make THAT illegal? Well I'm not an anarchist, I'm not advocating for the abolition of the government (perhaps someday, when you and I are long gone that might happen). The only purpose of a just and legitimate government is to protect life, liberty and property. Is someone violates someone else's rights to those things that's when the government has to intervene to apply justice and/or recuperation of those losses. Agreed. Link to post Share on other sites
Wolf18 Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Loveshack positivity or real positivity? Loveshack positivity: All young women are b*tches that just use men! All old women are b*tches that are used up by men! [/Quote] Not positive, but reality. Real positivity: Young men and women are beautiful! Old men and women are beautiful! Awwww, yeah, just like the dove commercial. I'm sure a few empty , feel-good words will bring plenty of closure to 30 year old virgins like HardDaysNight. Link to post Share on other sites
OnyxSnowfall Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 (edited) Onyx, you are a cute girl. You have no issues with dating, because you just have to walk out the door and you get interest. It's much, much harder for ugly and average looking men. We tend to get ignored. Add in whatever the poets call "game", and a lot of us realized a long time ago that we just don't have it, and never will have it. If you want to criminalize prostitution, you should also criminalize women who reject men for not being tall enough, or being fat, or being geeky, or being shy/quiet, or [insert stupid reason here.] Women have ridiculous standards. Men just want to be loved. Is it any wonder that women are always on here complaining about players? If they go after the same kind of man, over and over again, the lonely guys who get left out have a reason to complain, too! You're just fine AHardsDayNight --- you know what you have to do, and that's overcome your "anxiety". Many people who visit prostitutes do not have a code of "decency" (like you seem to), and many are "married" etc. If it was somehow founded for sexually deprived men, it's gone way off course................ but I can somewhat grasp where you're coming from. No one should have to feel like they're untouchable in an intimate way. And everyone does deserve to be loved, wanted and touched by someone. It will happen for you. BELIEVE it. I'll have you know I used to be a little fatty and I was not always considered so attractive by males (except for much older ones heh..... that part has hasn't changed... except for increasing ) And yet you seem to think you do know what's best for others. I'm pretty sure prostitution isn't healthy LoL --- especially not for majority of the "products". Regardless, in my earlier reply to you, I alluded that neither of us can appreciate things for the way they are and both of what we disagree with is actually necessary in some way. And I was in fact insinuating I am included in "people".... I certainly didn't exclude myself from it As far as the army goes....... I don't think you want to get me started there :rolleyes: --- how do you get that I only think that prostitution is the only thing that should BE illegal and remain illegal? The military is a whole 'nother can of worms. Edited October 22, 2011 by OnyxSnowfall I put be legal instead of be illegal... Lol Link to post Share on other sites
Floridaman Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 (edited) Originally Posted by AHardDaysNight It's much, much harder for ugly and average looking men. We tend to get ignored. Add in whatever the poets call "game", and a lot of us realized a long time ago that we just don't have it, and never will have it. If you want to criminalize prostitution, you should also criminalize women who reject men for not being tall enough, or being fat, or being geeky, or being shy/quiet, or [insert stupid reason here.] Women have ridiculous standards. Men just want to be loved. Is it any wonder that women are always on here complaining about players? If they go after the same kind of man, over and over again, the lonely guys who get left You're just fine AHardsDayNight --- you know what you have to do, and that's overcome your "anxiety". Onxy is right, BeatlesGuy. However, no amount of reassuring words from me nor her will really help you. I myself was a lot like you and SomeDude. Lousy at dating and didn't really get into serious dating until my late 20s. 30 isn't the big "drop dead" age as many guys (and gals) in your shoes fear. For me, that's the age I met my future wife. So view turning 30 as an opportunity.... While I was disappointed that 4 of the 5 women I dated in LTRs in my late 20s dumped me (the first breakup with that NEAR-fiance devastated me), looking back, am glad I didn't marry any of them (like I wanted at the time) as marrying my REAL LOVE felt so right and didn't require any "thinking." Instead of commiserating and feeling bad, you need to ask yourself some serious questions: What have you been doing all these years to get into a relationship? What do you think has kept you from gaining a GF? Edited October 22, 2011 by Floridaman Link to post Share on other sites
Floridaman Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Originally Posted by Cracker Jack Thanks for replying. I always assumed those who weren't very religious would annoy the others there. To be honest, I never even thought about religious events as a possibility to meet new people, so I'm glad you (and Floridaman) elaborated on it. It's worth a try. Worth a try, for sure. It will give you the opportunity to meet new friends and explore your spirituality at the same time. It may take trying a few different places or religious groups to determine which you would feel most comfortable with, but keep with it. There's a good chance it will have good results for you. Just don't get disappointed if there are some people there who have some negative things about them. Some might. You'll find all types there. Church or religious groups is not a country club for saints. It's a hospital for sinners who are human, many of whom are struggling with various issues and are there to seek guidance and meaning in their lives. Some are there for the social aspects of it. You'll find all types. But there will be some quality people there and potential for some good friendships. Cracker, Kathy's perspective is good. These singles groups aren't "religious discussion groups" like you might have in college on certain topics/activities (i.e. films, politics). The topics I recall discussed were general and light, non-divisive and not highly denominational. Some of the groups' members got involved in some community service projects. The group's original leader had to resign. She ended up marrying one of the participants. My mom was in one such group when I was in college. Those were older, divorced or "single again" adults, and some of them got married too. Attended several singles groups. They all didn't become big dating pools for me, but realized I needed to get out of my apt. and meet some people. Admit I attended primarily for the social part, but had no qualms attending for other reasons as well. Am glad I went. Got my first LTR love relationship out of the second group I attended after I moved to another city. Link to post Share on other sites
AHardDaysNight Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 What have you been doing all these years to get into a relationship?I've sort of sat back and waited for the girls to come to me. And then, when they do, I have a panic attack and scare them away. What do you think has kept you from gaining a GF? Anxiety. Pure and simple. Somedude is absolutely right, in that my anxiety disorder is what's keeping me away from relationships. If I didn't have social anxiety, I probably would have been married by now. I can't even keep a job. The last job, I quit because I was having panic attacks and crying in the bathroom over mental distortions (thinking that my coworkers were making fun of me.) Yes, it sounds crazy on here, but believe me, there are thousands of people with similar situations on the Social Anxiety forum I belong to. Whenever I see a cute girl showing interest, my immediate thought is that she's just being nice, and that she's not really interested in me. Later on, I find out that she was. Other times, I feel so unattractive that I reject her, because I feel like she could never love a guy like me. Link to post Share on other sites
Cracker Jack Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Cracker, Kathy's perspective is good. These singles groups aren't "religious discussion groups" like you might have in college on certain topics/activities (i.e. films, politics). The topics I recall discussed were general and light, non-divisive and not highly denominational. Some of the groups' members got involved in some community service projects. The group's original leader had to resign. She ended up marrying one of the participants. My mom was in one such group when I was in college. Those were older, divorced or "single again" adults, and some of them got married too. Attended several singles groups. They all didn't become big dating pools for me, but realized I needed to get out of my apt. and meet some people. Admit I attended primarily for the social part, but had no qualms attending for other reasons as well. Am glad I went. Got my first LTR love relationship out of the second group I attended after I moved to another city. That makes me even more hopeful. Thanks for going into more detail. What's the best way to go about finding these groups? Also, my age (24) wouldn't matter when it comes to going to these group events, right? I know that sounds silly, but I'm kinda a paranoid person in general. Link to post Share on other sites
123321 Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 You're just fine AHardsDayNight And the lap dog gets its cookie. You're encouraging him to continue in behavior that results in outcomes he dislikes. Not really helping him, just FYI. I'm pretty sure prostitution isn't healthy LoL --- especially not for majority of the "products". That line of thinking results in banning happy meals, sugary drinks, sky-diving, rock climbing, and anything that has risk - it's none of your goddam business, to put it bluntly. Butt out, let people make their own mistakes, they have a RIGHT to do as they wish. Link to post Share on other sites
OnyxSnowfall Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 (edited) And the lap dog gets its cookie. You're encouraging him to continue in behavior that results in outcomes he dislikes. Not really helping him, just FYI. Please.................. you're hardly credible. Granted, I don't know who you truly are, but based on your posts thus far (of the ones I've read), you're likely the type of person I'd hands down reject, and were I single, AHardDaysNight is likely far more of the type I'd be interested in. True story, and I rode it to school every day. That line of thinking results in banning happy meals, sugary drinks, sky-diving, rock climbing, and anything that has risk - it's none of your goddam business, to put it bluntly. Butt out, let people make their own mistakes, they have a RIGHT to do as they wish. :lmao: I rather like it butt in I also have the "right" to that too, ya know? <3 Edited October 22, 2011 by OnyxSnowfall Link to post Share on other sites
MaxNoob Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 If you ever dated a guy for material posessions (whether he gives them to you or owns them), job prospects (women used to go to university to meet men, and there's a reason why) or status he has, you are philosophically, no different from a prostitute. The only difference is prostitutes don't lie to themselves or to men. Very true. Rich guy: Will you have sex with me for 1 million dollars? Girl: Yes, absolutely. Rich guy: OK, how about $50. Girl: What? I’m not a prostitute! Rich guy: I thought we already established that. I was just bargaining. Link to post Share on other sites
123321 Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Please.................. you're hardly credible. Granted, I don't know who you truly are, but based on your posts thus far (of the ones I've read), you're likely the type of person I'd hands down reject, and were I single, AHardDaysNight is likely far more of the type I'd be interested in. True story, and I rode it to school every day. Let's compare notes on which of us has had better success dating women and take it from there. I also have the "right" to that too, ya know? <3 No, in fact you don't beyond the fact that you and everyone has a right to an OPINION, but no one has a right to infringe on others even if society allows it at the moment. Still wrong. So sure, have an opinion, but to actively pursue it to the point it infringes others, nope. So disapprove all you like, wag a finger all you care to, but the moment you support actual force to enforce your opinion on others, whether it be via law or not, you are more immoral than the activities you oppose. Link to post Share on other sites
OnyxSnowfall Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 (edited) Let's compare notes on which of us has had better success dating women and take it from there. Actually, I've dated quite a few women LOL... and they actually do come onto me semi frequently But I guess if you're interested in dating him, well, then by all means, assert *your* desires upon him (not what you presume others are).... (I think he's straight though). No, in fact you don't beyond the fact that you and everyone has a right to an OPINION, but no one has a right to infringe on others even if society allows it at the moment. Still wrong. So sure, have an opinion, but to actively pursue it to the point it infringes others, nope. So disapprove all you like, wag a finger all you care to, but the moment you support actual force to enforce your opinion on others, whether it be via law or not, you are more immoral than the activities you oppose. Eh... it's a waste of time attempting to communicate with you (I'm more immoral than the thing(s) I oppose *because* I'm "opposing" them (NEVERMIND that they're things that are HARMFUL to others)? Wtf kind of logic is that? Do you realize how things would be without any kind of order? Lol..... and I'm somehow "infringing" upon others? by having my "own" opinions that you're touting others are allowed? Do you think I'm in charge of deciding what is legal or not--- and I'm somehow RESPONSIBLE and have been handed such power? Lol... goodness, my "opinions" must really intimidate you) ................ of course you "scorn" them, you know no better.... and I think I've allowed myself to be as foolish as you for long enough now. And, like with other things I've allowed myself to futility get entwined with until I am certain it's futile --- you can equivocate addressing me as into the void now. Good luck with "your" life though Edited October 22, 2011 by OnyxSnowfall Link to post Share on other sites
123321 Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 It's a waste of time attempting to communicate with you (I'm more immoral than the thing(s) I oppose *because* I'm "opposing" them? I cannot tell if you are being intentionally obtuse or if it's real, but no, what I said is that to force others to do what YOU think is right makes you more vile than whatever thing you are proscribing for them, provided (like sex between adults, or drinking a beer) it's not a case of their arm waving smacking into your nose. So, disapprove all you like but if you use force, even law, you are pure evil. Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts