Your view on male virginity vs male use of prostitution

[AHardDaysNight]

Heh you have a point.

 

It's unfair... so by all means, judge a woman based on her past... if it truly matters to you. Or wait until you encounter a woman who can reciprocate your ability to remain nonjudgmental to the past.

 

The truth of the matter is that such a woman is rare.

 

If I could meet a girl who would be like that, who wouldn't judge me based on my life, I would have been married by now. But trying to find one is like trying to find a needle in a haystack.

[Sanman]

Too good? Really?

 

Believe what you want, but from all I have read and all the guys I know, it is the truth. Checkout Secret life of a call girl as it is based on a book by a real life call girl.

 

However, here is a list of losers found to pick up hookers:

 

Charlie Sheen

Hugh Grant

Eddie Murphy

Eliot Spitzer

 

I'm sure none of these guys could pick up a girl.

 

Yes, the older virgins I know are too nice. A lot them are too afraid to approach a girl or break a rule. They would never hook up with a drunk girl. They dislike strippers and hookers. They are the 'nice' guys that respect women the way they were taught to in elementary school. The problem is that attraction has to do with following some rules and breaking others. For instance, the guy who pushes for sex but pulls back when the girl is not ready is considered a good guy for waiting. The guy who waits for a signal is considered not interested since he did not make a move. See the other thread about the girl not attracted to a good guy because of lack of chase fro another example. It really does boil down to that.

[OnyxSnowfall]

Believe what you want, but from all I have read and all the guys I know, it is the truth. Checkout Secret life of a call girl as it is based on a book by a real life call girl.

 

However, here is a list of losers found to pick up hookers:

 

Charlie Sheen

Hugh Grant

Eddie Murphy

Eliot Spitzer

 

I'm sure none of these guys could pick up a girl.

 

Yes, the older virgins I know are too nice. A lot them are too afraid to approach a girl or break a rule. They would never hook up with a drunk girl. They dislike strippers and hookers. They are the 'nice' guys that respect women the way they were taught to in elementary school. The problem is that attraction has to do with following some rules and breaking others. For instance, the guy who pushes for sex but pulls back when the girl is not ready is considered a good guy for waiting. The guy who waits for a signal is considered not interested since he did not make a move. See the other thread about the girl not attracted to a good guy because of lack of chase fro another example. It really does boil down to that.

 

Sorry, but I wouldn't date those men you listed... I do think some men visit prostitutes because of the "novelty" or the "stranger" and or the "naughtiness" factor... generally such men are just greedy and or probably "bored" and seeking out less than ideal ways to allay their boredom. Still not the kind of men I'd personally be interested in. Perhaps they figure most women only want them for their money anyway, so why not? Shrug.

 

There are still plenty of men that do it out of desperation...

 

I adore the kind of men you claim are *too good* though... although yes, waiting for a signal isn't the best thing to do... granted, I pursued my boyfriend in the beginning. He fit your "never drinks / never breaks rules / is sexually and emotionally inexperienced" too good label etc but... he did respond to me. Quite so, and he took over well from there

 

If he hadn't responded, I likely would have lost interest. What a shame that would have been though :eek:

Edited September 29, 2011 by OnyxSnowfall

[Hot Chick]

Ok I disagree. I think that older virgins lack social skills and the ability to pursue relationships like normal guys.

but...anyhoo....just a warning - I did read on a website for older virgins that if you wait too long, real sex is not satisfying because the vagina is looser than the hand. Guys who are virgins get so accustomed to jacking off and the control they have with their hands that sex is often a disappointment when they finally have it.

So.....just a warning there.

[AHardDaysNight]

Ok I disagree. I think that older virgins lack social skills and the ability to pursue relationships like normal guys.

but...anyhoo....just a warning - I did read on a website for older virgins that if you wait too long, real sex is not satisfying because the vagina is looser than the hand. Guys who are virgins get so accustomed to jacking off and the control they have with their hands that sex is often a disappointment when they finally have it.

So.....just a warning there.

 

Fair warning.

 

This is why I've been interested in getting a fleshlight, to desensitize myself to my hand.

 

But, from what I've heard, it's not all that great. So I dunno.

[fortyninethousand322]

Wolf, while I disagree with you on many aspects, I do agree with you on this:

 

 

 

Let's say the roles were reversed. A girl reveals that she's a virgin to her boyfriend, and he dumps her. She comes on here and cries all about how she was unfairly judged.

 

How many women would call the man names, or say that he shouldn't have dumped her? How many would have blamed the victim (the woman virgin?)

 

There are more older male virgins than female virgins, so my scenario is unlikely to play out. But let's just say it happened. Would the female virgin be the victim, or would the boyfriend who dumped her be the victim?

 

Let's reverse it again. Let's say that an older virgin tells his girlfriend he's a virgin, she dumps him, and he comes on here and complains about it?

 

How many instances have we seen, even in the past week, about the bitterness that men experience over this? How can you state that things are equal?

 

Feminism, my ass. I am all for equal rights, but they should be equal.

 

Yup 100% agree it's a double standard. Granted there are double standard that work against women too, but this is not one of them. Lying is your best option.

[Hot Chick]

Wow, you are taking this really well. When I told my 40-Year-Old-Virgin friend about this, he got mad at me and we haven't spoken.

I'm sure you'll be fine and all will go well.

[OnyxSnowfall]

Ok I disagree. I think that older virgins lack social skills and the ability to pursue relationships like normal guys.

but...anyhoo....just a warning - I did read on a website for older virgins that if you wait too long, real sex is not satisfying because the vagina is looser than the hand. Guys who are virgins get so accustomed to jacking off and the control they have with their hands that sex is often a disappointment when they finally have it.

So.....just a warning there.

 

Whoa, lol.

 

If the guy is squeezing and jerking himself like a maniac, with no thought for his penis, then it could become an issue regardless of whether or not he is otherwise sexually active.

 

Also, even if all vaginas are looser than a man's death grip on his member, they are also moist, warm, soft and slick...

 

And, I don't know about you, but I can "clench" around and provide different degrees of pressure and movements (as in, using the muscles one uses when they do kegels) and my guy certainly seems like he's enjoying it all ... and he's mentioned and shown his gratitude for saving him from more years with his hand alone on so many different occasions

 

Besides, there's several ways to have sex if I man finds himself dissatisfied with the real thing after becoming reliant upon his hand --- USUALLY men become reliant on an intangible form of stimuli (like porn etc).

 

But a man can wean himself off of anything he's become dependent upon, that has desensitized him...

 

sensitivity can return.

[OnyxSnowfall]

Lying is your best option.

 

:rolleyes:

 

(also, sex if a*** man lol)

[fortyninethousand322]

:rolleyes:

 

Worry not. I've already taken myself out of the dating market, so no worries. No woman will have to be saddled with my sorry self.

[Sanman]

Sorry, but I wouldn't date those men you listed... I do think some men visit prostitutes because of the "novelty" or the "stranger" and or the "naughtiness" factor... generally such men are just greedy and or probably "bored" and seeking out less than ideal ways to allay their boredom. Still not the kind of men I'd personally be interested in. Perhaps they figure most women only want them for their money anyway, so why not? Shrug.

 

There are still plenty of men that do it out of desperation...

 

I adore the kind of men you claim are *too good* though... although yes, waiting for a signal isn't the best thing to do... granted, I pursued my boyfriend in the beginning. He fit your "never drinks / never breaks rules / is sexually and emotionally inexperienced" too good label etc but... he did respond to me. Quite so, and he took over well from there

 

If he hadn't responded, I likely would have lost interest. What a shame that would have been though :eek:

 

Look I'm not hating on these guys. I used to be one of them and they comprise a good number of my closest friends as they are all men of great character. Luckily for me, I worked out a lot when I was younger and was really fit and am tall, so a few girls approached me and I learned that I needed to be more aggressive and break some rules. I still find it silly that to get a girl interested I immediately try and have sex and all I have to do to be considered a good guy is go as far as possible and not be a little b*tch if the girl says no initially. These types may not be your type onyx, but they are the type of most women. Even you admit if your great guy had tried to take it slow, you would have lost interest. Women in this thread have talked about getting to know a girl, but that is not what you do. After a first date is not too soon to go in for a kiss or even sex, but I certainly don't know these women. The only girl that may have been turned off is my current gf, but I like that about her. Even then, I am not sure we would be together if we were not long distance and spent months talking and getting to really know each other before meeting and getting physical.

 

Hot chick, they are awkward because they think sitting and engaging a girl intellectually and being friendly is the way to get a girl. You need to create attraction and get a girl thinking about sex. A friend of mine saw this first hand a couple of years ago at age 30 (still a virgin). He talked to her about economics (as they are both in the field) pretty much alone for two hours. I had an fwb/gf at the time and didn't care. So, I ended up just being the life of the rest of the party, cracked some jokes, and talked about vibrators, SATC, and a few other things. Now, I am in better shape and make more money (the girls knew this). I engaged this girl for 15 min. Guess who got her number? It wasn't about getting to know her. It usually isn't. It is about a few witty one liners and asking for a number or hooking up right there.

[OnyxSnowfall]

Worry not. I've already taken myself out of the dating market, so no worries. No woman will have to be saddled with my sorry self.

 

I would feel better if you encouraged others to take their sorry selves out of the market too, rather than encouraging them to lie and remain in

 

In all seriousness though...

 

Really, something founded on any such lie is silly. How can you think "yeah... this person PROBABLY wouldn't be with me if they knew this and this... oh, oh well"

 

I guess if you have no self-respect etc...

 

and rather, it stands as a testimony that you don't trust the other person.

 

You want to be with that kind of person, too? Hmm...

[Sanman]

I would feel better if you encouraged others to take their sorry selves out of the market too, rather than encouraging them to lie and remain in

 

In all seriousness though...

 

Really, something founded on any such lie is silly. How can you think "yeah... this person PROBABLY wouldn't be with me if they knew this and this... oh, oh well"

 

I guess if you have no self-respect etc...

 

and rather, it stands as a testimony that you don't trust the other person.

 

You want to be with that kind of person, too? Hmm...

 

Yeah, but you can't disagree that women have come on here and thought about or have dumped virgin men. It is a lie, but lying and saying you had a partner or two is not such a major lie, it avoids eliciting those feelings, and poor performance might still be forgiven.

[AHardDaysNight]

So the key is to taking myself out of the market, being lonely, and dying a virgin?

 

Well, thanks!

 

Anyway, a reasonable person won't care. Many women aren't reasonable people, but some are.

[fortyninethousand322]

I would feel better if you encouraged others to take their sorry selves out of the market too, rather than encouraging them to lie and remain in

 

In all seriousness though...

 

Really, something founded on any such lie is silly. How can you think "yeah... this person PROBABLY wouldn't be with me if they knew this and this... oh, oh well"

 

I guess if you have no self-respect etc...

 

and rather, it stands as a testimony that you don't trust the other person.

 

You want to be with that kind of person, too? Hmm...

 

Well I'm a complicated jumble of mess right now in terms of how I feel about dating and relationships. But, non-virgins and non-late bloomers can't really understand what it's like to be older and inexperienced. I mean I've never even kissed a girl before. I would definitely not tell a girl that were I to ever actually kiss one. If that makes me a horrible person then fine. But I'm not going to intentionally hurt my chances with women just to uphold some abstract principle of full disclosure.

 

Anyway, porn and basketball have become my methods of coping with my eternal inability to get a girlfriend. So again, everyone gets what they want.

[KathyM]

Lol, I do have to laugh at the women here who are calling all the guys who visit prostitutes losers. Guys who visit prostitutes are roughly the same demographics and for similar reasons to women who do FWB. Both are easy access to sex for people in a dry spell, who are too busy for a relationship, or who just haven't found anyone in a while. The joke is that you ladies are dating the men who so disgust you. All the guys I know that have admitted to seeing prostitutes are regular guys who have plenty of relationships. A friend of mine visited a hooker after he and his gf broke up since he couldn't find a ONS. I'm sure more guys I know will when I get to that age when you have young kids and your wife does not want to have sex for months. Sometimes guys are already have the relationship and are just looking for sex. The difference is that most guys will simply never tell you that or any of the other things you women don't want to hear. It is just like the fwb or threesome in college you don't want to admit to because you are a 'good girl' to your bf. While I am sure some virgins will lose it to a prostitute, they are usually better equipped to go without sex than guys who have had it before and are used to it. Additionally, most of the virgin guys I know are too good. They are the ones who never drink and always followed the rules. They would never think of breaking the law. The types that would visit a prostitute already banged the drunk girl at the frat party. Think Charlie Sheen or Tucker Max types.

Charlie Sheen did serious damage to his life because of his exploits with prostitutes and drugs. He lost his wife, his children, his job (the highest paid job on T.V.), and is now the butt of jokes. Doesn't seem to have worked out too well for him. Tiger Woods used to be the most respected, wealthy, popular sports figure in the world. Now, after the scandal was uncovered of his exploits with prostitutes, he lost his wife, his kids, a huge chunk of his money, his endorsements, his reputation (is now the least liked sports figure in the world according to public records after the scandal broke), lost his focus on his game with all the public backlash, and the respect he once had from the public. Quite a heavy price to pay for Charlie and Tiger.

[OnyxSnowfall]

Look I'm not hating on these guys. I used to be one of them and they comprise a good number of my closest friends as they are all men of great character. Luckily for me, I worked out a lot when I was younger and was really fit and am tall, so a few girls approached me and I learned that I needed to be more aggressive and break some rules. I still find it silly that to get a girl interested I immediately try and have sex and all I have to do to be considered a good guy is go as far as possible and not be a little b*tch if the girl says no initially. These types may not be your type onyx, but they are the type of most women. Even you admit if your great guy had tried to take it slow, you would have lost interest. Women in this thread have talked about getting to know a girl, but that is not what you do. After a first date is not too soon to go in for a kiss or even sex, but I certainly don't know these women. The only girl that may have been turned off is my current gf, but I like that about her. Even then, I am not sure we would be together if we were not long distance and spent months talking and getting to really know each other before meeting and getting physical.

 

Well I'm glad it worked out for you.

 

(although I think you misunderstood me... my current boyfriend and I waited a little over a year before we were sexually intimate together).

 

Yeah, but you can't disagree that women have come on here and thought about or have dumped virgin men. It is a lie, but lying and saying you had a partner or two is not such a major lie, it avoids eliciting those feelings, and poor performance might still be forgiven.

 

I know, I don't understand that stigma myself.

 

It's still nonetheless a lie...

 

Well I'm a complicated jumble of mess right now in terms of how I feel about dating and relationships. But, non-virgins and non-late bloomers can't really understand what it's like to be older and inexperienced. I mean I've never even kissed a girl before. I would definitely not tell a girl that were I to ever actually kiss one. If that makes me a horrible person then fine. But I'm not going to intentionally hurt my chances with women just to uphold some abstract principle of full disclosure.

 

Anyway, porn and basketball have become my methods of coping with my eternal inability to get a girlfriend. So again, everyone gets what they want.

 

I meant lying about having slept with prostitutes / encouraging others to lie about such things but...

 

a kiss? yeah... but do adults usually ASK one another if they've kissed someone else before? I think it's practically assumed (unless someone is a terrible kisser, and in which case... nothing would probably be said).

 

So there's really no *need* to lie about that.

 

But when someone asks you about your sexual history, and you choose to "LIE" about it.... not even just choose not to divulge it...

 

...

[LynnieBear]

If boys concentrated less on just trying to get laid and concentrated more on making a real emotional connection with a girl, they would likely wind up getting sex. Funny how that works.

 

This... this... and this.

[Sanman]

Well I'm glad it worked out for you.

 

(although I think you misunderstood me... my current boyfriend and I waited a little over a year before we were sexually intimate together).

 

 

I didn't mean to suggest that you did so immediately, but rather that he initiated physical interest in some way and maybe tried to have sex and waited if you preferred otherwise? What if he didn't try to initiate contact like many of these guys do thinking that getting to know you as a friend is the way to go?

[LynnieBear]

The first response said it all. Nobody else even needed to respond.

[Sanman]

Charlie Sheen did serious damage to his life because of his exploits with prostitutes and drugs. He lost his wife, his children, his job (the highest paid job on T.V.), and is now the butt of jokes. Doesn't seem to have worked out too well for him. Tiger Woods used to be the most respected, wealthy, popular sports figure in the world. Now, after the scandal was uncovered of his exploits with prostitutes, he lost his wife, his kids, a huge chunk of his money, his endorsements, his reputation (is now the least liked sports figure in the world according to public records after the scandal broke), lost his focus on his game with all the public backlash, and the respect he once had from the public. Quite a heavy price to pay for Charlie and Tiger.

 

Actually Charlie has a new show coming out and Tiger is back on his game. Sure there are consequences as it is bad for your image, just as being known as a 'slut' can be bad for a woman's image. Nonetheless, my point was that all types of men see prostitutes. Certainly, a good number of women find these men sexually attractive. We can also add Jesse James to that list.

[KathyM]

^ I agree somewhat, Sanman. Most of the men who aren't "nice guys" or "religious" are out there banging prostitutes.

 

When you think about it, it is quite easy to get to 28 and never been kissed, had sex, or been in a relationship. Girls are scary, man! They're moody, competitive, mean to guys who they view as ugly, they're mean to other girls who might be better than them, they have periods and generally are unstable.

 

That being said, they are beautiful and while flawed, I'd rather date a girl than a guy. I suppose that's why I'm straight, lol!

 

I see two contradictory things being thrown my way. I'm being told that hookers are dirty, and that I shouldn't see a prostitute. Oh wait, I'm almost 30, so I should see a hooker...but you wouldn't date me afterwards. So am I relationship material as a virgin, or after I see a hooker?

 

It's really confusing reading these responses. Half of you are divided on whether or not a 30 year old virgin should see a hooker, or even whether it is healthy to even see a hooker!

Well, it's definately not healthy to see one, that's for sure. You are risking your health if you go to them. It's not worth it. And as far as if women would date you if they knew you were a virgin, all of the women I know would not hold that against you. They would think you were saving yourself for someone special. All of them would never give you the time of day if you ever did see one. Most women would be repulsed if they knew you did that, and would think you were likely diseased and pathetic. You seem like a nice guy. Don't lower yourself to that level.

[AHardDaysNight]

Men are supposed to be known for their sexual exploits.

 

What happens when a man doesn't lose his virginity till late in life, or at all? He's ridiculed by both men and women.

 

Just the responses in this thread proves it!

[KathyM]

Actually Charlie has a new show coming out and Tiger is back on his game. Sure there are consequences as it is bad for your image, just as being known as a 'slut' can be bad for a woman's image. Nonetheless, my point was that all types of men see prostitutes. Certainly, a good number of women find these men sexually attractive. We can also add Jesse James to that list.

Charlie may have a new show. It may or may not be that popular. He gave up the most popular highest paid acting role on T.V. because of his decadent behavior. He definately lost his wife and children. Tiger lost his wife, children, reputation, endorsements, and his game suffered for quite a while. I don't think it really has gotten back to what it was. All the distraction with the scandal screwed him up.

[ChessPieceFace]

Responding to this since it was unfortunately quoted again by someone else:

 

If boys concentrated less on just trying to get laid and concentrated more on making a real emotional connection with a girl, they would likely wind up getting sex. Funny how that works.

 

No, funny how it DOESN'T work. Funny considering how women claim to care about emotions, and do care about emotions inside their own mind, but go after the players that use them for sex. "Making a real emotional connection with a girl" = loser who will be alone.