Your view on male virginity vs male use of prostitution

[Taramere]

In The Netherlands and Germany prostitution is legalized. Which means the people who run things need to register as a company and pay taxes.

 

You know what that did to criminals who used to run the show there? They got outcompeted by the regular population on price, quality and availability.

 

The same happened with drugs in The Netherlands. Once businesses were allowed to develop, grow and sell the stuff the criminals got outcompeted by pretty much every metric.

 

The governments there also regulate things there. Women get medical check ups and they get visits from government officials to check on them and ask them if they're being pressured by anyone to do that work.

 

For example, prostitution in Amsterdam is very public. In the Red Light District you can literally go window shopping for women.

 

I think there's always been a bit of an unrealistically touchy feely buzz surrounding the impact of liberal Dutch policies. I remember being in Rotterdamn, seeing junkies sprawled around a park in Rotterdam, openly injecting and thinking it was quite a departure from the cosy image of bright eyed and bushy tailed students partaking legally and safely of hash in coffee shops.

 

Amsterdam is a major destination in Europe for human trafficking, and is also a hub for child pornography.

 

http://www.uri.edu/artsci/wms/hughes/netherl.htm

 

I'm not saying they have it wrong with their policies. What I'm saying is that if you value honesty then it's important to avoid having a rose tinted perspective of a country that is, in fact, far from problem free. It's important to accept that those policies are not some magical cure-all. That it's simply not true to assert that legalising and regulating these activities have resulted in criminals being uncompetitive and therefore having to leave the marketplace.

 

In reality, what often happens is that they step up their activities a gear in order to remain "competitive".

 

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2011/10/we_must_be_honest_about_prosti.php

 

The Netherlands often deals with prostitution by turning a blind eye to the 'raw reality', Amsterdam council executive Lodewijk Asscher says in an interview with Trouw on Friday.

 

Many opinion writers and officials 'deny' that there are problems and believe the sex industry is well ordered, he said. But there is a 'collective silence' about the truth, he said, referring to forced prostitution and human trafficking.

 

For years Asscher has been involved in efforts to clean up Amsterdam's notorious red light district by reducing the number of buildings licenced for prostitution and trying to combat crime.

 

According to some police experts, between 50% and 90% of the prostitutes working in the area have been forced into it, even in officially-licenced brothels and clubs.

 

 

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/24/world/europe/24amsterdam.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all

 

We’ve realized this is no longer about small-scale entrepreneurs, but that big crime organizations are involved here in trafficking women, drugs, killings and other criminal activities,” said Job Cohen, the mayor. “We’re not banning prostitution, but we are cutting back on the whole circuit: the gambling halls, the pimps, the money laundering.”

Edited October 22, 2011 by Taramere

[Taramere]

Human trafficking is illegal as it involves sex slavery. This is different to prostitution which is a simple exchange of sex for money and is completely legal.

 

It's only completely legal in most places (ie in those places where the simple exchange of sex for money hasn't been criminalised) provided the exchange doesn't involve activities such as public solicitation and pimping - which are regarded as criminal activities in many places.

 

How often is a straightforward sex for money transaction going to take place without such activities playing a role? Without the prostitute having been at some point coerced into that activity by a violent pimp/criminal gang....or without her having solicited her services publicly - or been aided, in getting clients (and receiving protection from them where they prove violent) by a pimp? If the transaction occurs without any of those circumstances being involved, then fine - no law is being broken (in most jurisdictions), but it's probably not realistic to assume that the majority of prostitutes are making a living without soliciting or being assisted by a pimp. Whether that pimp be their boyfriend or somebody they have a more businesslike set up with.

 

Black and white "sex for money exchange between two consenting adults" sound all very well...but in reality, the circumstances leading up to such exchanges are very relevant...and in many cases it is in those circumstances that the illegality is found.

Edited October 22, 2011 by Taramere

[Taramere]

Wish someone would coerce me into that kinda work. Not bad if you can get it.

 

I think there is plenty of work out there for male prostitutes. However, you would probably have to dispense with the notion of rich older women giving you cash for sex. Realistically, the bulk of your client group would be male...so if you had an aversion to gay sex, you would have to get over that fairly quickly.

 

Here is an short article about a documentary on the subject of male prostitutes.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/4373475.stm

[Floridaman]

You're just fine AHardsDayNight --- you know what you have to do, and that's overcome your "anxiety"

 

......

I'll have you know I used to be a little fatty and I was not always considered so attractive by males (except for much older ones heh..... that part has hasn't changed... except for increasing )

That's an interesting admission, Onyx, and what guys like BeatlesFan needs to hear.

 

Not all women find it easy to get men, and that woman BeatlesGuy may approach may have been like you (not successful at attractng men in the past) and may just well accept his invitation...

 

 

Have also seen your post (in LynnieBear's "sexual ghosts and bonding" thread) about some unfortunate criminal experiences you had with men. Sorry to hear that.

[Floridaman]

What's the best way to go about finding these groups?

Look at church's websites. Try for the larger-zized "mainstream" ones like Catholics, Methodists, Baptists, Lutherans, non-denominationals.

If you can't find the info you want online, during the week, call the chuch and ask if they have groups or activities for singles.

 

During the 80s, churches were known to "ignore" or at least not serve well singles and divorced men and women, a big shortcoming, IMHO.

Hopefully, that's changed.

One size does not fit all.

Also, my age (24) wouldn't matter when it comes to going to these group events, right? I know that sounds silly, but I'm kinda a paranoid person in general.

Age shouldn't be an issue.

 

At 29, one night went to one singles group's Sat. eve. function had heard or read about in the newspaper. Found most of the people there were in their 40s, which didn't interest me so moved on to others.

[musemaj11]

Human trafficking is not a reason to ban prostitution completely. Thats a logical fallacy. Its like saying the existence of child pornography is a reason to ban the internet altogether.

[Taramere]

Human trafficking is not a reason to ban prostitution completely. Thats a logical fallacy. Its like saying the existence of child pornography is a reason to ban the internet altogether.

 

If that's directed at me, it's misguided. I don't propose bannning prostitution. What I do believe is that there's a tendency to look at a place like the Netherlands (where there's a far more liberal approach) through rose-tinted spectacles. Somebody else suggested that legalising cannabis and prostitution (subject to certain regulations) chases crime away from those areas. I'm saying that's a myth. That it's misleading and simplistic to suggest that by legalising a certain activity you will resolve various social ills.

 

Yet even in 2011, with all that we should know regarding social realities, that myth seems to persist. People continue peddling this outmoded notion of the Netherlands as a haven of liberal attitudes working out beautifully. It's just not true.

 

By all means legalise various activities related to prostitution, subject to certain regulations. Just have realistic expectations about what that can achieve. It might be helpful in some ways (eg with regard to monitoring the health and rights of prostitutes, and freeing up police time to do more important and useful things than arresting people for treating sex as a commodity).

 

However, the notion that such measures would lead to a magically improved, less criminal society is naive. Harmful even, if it results in people wilfully refusing to recognise any social ills that might demonstrate the limitations or failures of decriminalisation policies.

[KathyM]

Cracker,

Kathy's perspective is good.

 

These singles groups aren't "religious discussion groups" like you might have in college on certain topics/activities (i.e. films, politics).

 

The topics I recall discussed were general and light, non-divisive and not highly denominational.

Some of the groups' members got involved in some community service projects.

 

The group's original leader had to resign. She ended up marrying one of the participants.

 

My mom was in one such group when I was in college. Those were older, divorced or "single again" adults, and some of them got married too.

 

Attended several singles groups. They all didn't become big dating pools for me, but realized I needed to get out of my apt. and meet some people. Admit I attended primarily for the social part, but had no qualms attending for other reasons as well.

 

Am glad I went. Got my first LTR love relationship out of the second group I attended after I moved to another city.

I think the beauty of these types of groups, apart from the spiritual advantages, is that they will welcome everybody into the group who wants to come. It's not exclusive. And the people there will get to know you. They're not going to reject you. It may or may not lead to dating or marriage, but it will lead to good friendships and has the potential for much more. People will get to know you on a personal level, and you will not be shot down because of physical features. I know a lot of relationships and marriages that started because of those groups. Many of the participants started going when they were at the stage of not having any spiritual beliefs and someone invited them to come. Some had beliefs but were not active in their faith, and just came for the social aspects of it. My son invited many people who were not religious people to his group that he belonged to. He had previously been invited to it at a time when he was not particularly religious, and he still is good friends with many of them. My son's group was more of a social group where they just hung out, played cards, ate food, and talked. Kind of like a party atmoshere where they met in people's homes or apartments. They met at my home several times when my son was still living with us. Very nice group of people. Very low pressure. In fact, they mostly talked about general topics, but sometimes would get into little discussions about life and faith, but they purposely tried to keep it low key so everyone would feel comfortable. My nephews also host a group like that in their home. Their's is a little more serious discussion about faith, but is open to all people interested. You find these groups through churches, mostly. You don't have to wait to be invited. The church's websites usually specify where and when the meetings/get togethers are taking place, and you can just go there at that time. I'm trying to encourage my own two younger sons to find a group like that. It's been such a good experience for my oldest son. My two younger ones recently broke up with their LT gfs, and I'd like them to get involved with a group where they would meet quality women, rather than just meeting through random means.

[KathyM]

I've sort of sat back and waited for the girls to come to me. And then, when they do, I have a panic attack and scare them away.

 

Anxiety. Pure and simple.

 

Somedude is absolutely right, in that my anxiety disorder is what's keeping me away from relationships. If I didn't have social anxiety, I probably would have been married by now.

 

I can't even keep a job. The last job, I quit because I was having panic attacks and crying in the bathroom over mental distortions (thinking that my coworkers were making fun of me.) Yes, it sounds crazy on here, but believe me, there are thousands of people with similar situations on the Social Anxiety forum I belong to.

 

Whenever I see a cute girl showing interest, my immediate thought is that she's just being nice, and that she's not really interested in me. Later on, I find out that she was. Other times, I feel so unattractive that I reject her, because I feel like she could never love a guy like me.

I wish you would get counseling for your social anxiety disorder. It can be managed with help. If that is what is holding you back, then you know what you need to do to correct it. Counseling. If money is an issue, then find counselors who charge on a sliding fee scale or who are paid by the state and offer counseling through state-supported agencies. Self help books on handling anxiety disorder are also available. You could go to the bookstore and read up, or read what's out there online on the subject. I just dealt with that disorder for a class I'm taking. (We practice treating clients--mock clients who are fellow students). The treatment plan was to gradually expose the client to social situations in small doses until he feels more and more comfortable with them and the fear is reduced. There are also pills you can take for that that are prescribed by a psychiatrist. If you could afford just one appointment with a psychiatrist, he would probably be willing to prescribe on just the first appointment. I think getting treatment should be the first course in your case.

[Floridaman]

I think the beauty of these types of groups, apart from the spiritual advantages, is that they will welcome everybody into the group who wants to come. It's not exclusive. And the people there will get to know you. They're not going to reject you. It may or may not lead to dating or marriage, but it will lead to good friendships and has the potential for much more. People will get to know you on a personal level, and you will not be shot down because of physical features. I know a lot of relationships and marriages that started because of those groups. .

 

Can only think of one small disadvantage to going to singles groups, any kind of singles group.

 

Say you meet a nice lady there and you date 6 mos. and she brings up the possibility of getting engaged, like what happened to me @26 with that 30 y.o. virgin I dated....

 

After the inevitible breakup (I rarely was the one who called things off), you won't likely want to keep attending that particular group.

It will just kill you inside just being in the same room as your EX, noticing her eyes notice you then she quickly looks away, to where you realize you don't need to be going there anymore.

 

Same thing happened to another guy there.

Saw him later somewhere else and asked why he wasn't going anymore. One of the leaders dumped him.

He was disappionted too and like me with my gal, thought things were fine.

 

But this could be said about dating someone in your social circle.

In terms of risk-reward, would say it's still better to get involved in singles groups.

Edited October 22, 2011 by Floridaman

[KathyM]

I cannot tell if you are being intentionally obtuse or if it's real, but no, what I said is that to force others to do what YOU think is right makes you more vile than whatever thing you are proscribing for them, provided (like sex between adults, or drinking a beer) it's not a case of their arm waving smacking into your nose.

 

So, disapprove all you like but if you use force, even law, you are pure evil.

So all laws are evil because they prevent people from doing what they want to do? So we'd all be better off without any laws and nobody has a right to make laws, enforce laws or even support laws that control others? That's what you're saying. That people are evil if they support laws that would control others. We would be living in anarchy if everybody had your perspective.

[KathyM]

 

That it's simply not true to assert that legalising and regulating these activities have resulted in criminals being uncompetitive and therefore having to leave the marketplace.

 

In reality, what often happens is that they step up their activities a gear in order to remain "competitive".

 

 

That is what I have read too. That countries where it is legalized still have the problems of women and children being coirced into prostitution, still being abused by the customers, still being degraded on a regular basis, and still at greater risk of transmitting an STD because of the sheer volume of patrons they see, and of course, the patrons are not being tested for STDs beforehand. All it takes is one encounter with an infected person, and the symptoms don't show up right away, so it is being spread for some time before the person even knows they have an STD.

[KathyM]

Can only think of one small disadvantage to going to singles groups, any kind of singles group.

 

Say you meet a nice lady there and you date 6 mos. and she brings up the possibility of getting engaged, like what happened to me @26 with that 30 y.o. virgin I dated....

 

After the inevitible breakup (I rarely was the one who called things off), you won't likely want to keep attending that particular group.

It will just kill you inside just being in the same room as your EX, noticing her eyes notice you then she quickly looks away, to where you realize you don't need to be going there anymore.

 

Same thing happened to another guy there.

Saw him later somewhere else and asked why he wasn't going anymore. One of the leaders dumped him.

He was disappionted too and like me with my gal, thought things were fine.

 

But this could be said about dating someone in your social circle.

In terms of risk-reward, would say it's still better to get involved in singles groups.

Let's just say, it's a good way to meet people. It widens your social circle, not just because of the people there, but new people are often brought into the group on a regular basis. I do know people who have dated among group members. Some dated for a long period of time. Some got married to each other. Some dated briefly and parted as friends, but still continued to attend the group and remained friends. For more serious, long term relationships that did eventually break up, I can imagine it would be difficult to still attend that same group together, but then people would try a different group as you did. It's still a good plan, I believe.

[OnyxSnowfall]

Taramere - you conveyed quite an amount of what I was attempting to in a far more eloquent and articulate manner . Although we disagree with whether or not prostitution should be banned, I respect that you're interested in what the truth of the realities are and agree that it's important for people to recognize them... (if not just to consider reforms where it is legal and much troubled).

Edited October 22, 2011 by OnyxSnowfall

[carhill]

Back when the streetwalkers used to duck in the door, we called prostitution 'the world's oldest profession' and, if Wikipedia is to be believed, it dates back to at least 4000BC and priests in a Sumerian temple. Go figure. As long as the ancient drives exist and goods and services of value are available and desired for bartering for them, so will this particular 'profession' continue. It's the nature of human beings.

 

A few months ago, just after getting his CCW, my best friend called in a suspicious pickup on the property next to his business. Due to him having a CCW (this is a permit to carry concealed), response was immediate. Result? One prostitute busted and one client booked and one vehicle impounded. The 'can't make this up' clincher? The prostitute was male, the client female and the truck was her husband's.

[Nexus One]

I remember being in Rotterdamn, seeing junkies sprawled around a park in Rotterdam, openly injecting and thinking it was quite a departure from the cosy image of bright eyed and bushy tailed students partaking legally and safely of hash in coffee shops.

 

Do you know where those junkies in The Netherlands get their drugs and needles from? They pick it up at the hospital. They can get it there for free at the hospital, because then they don't have to go around stealing and robbing to get the money for the drugs. AND the drugs from the hospital are safe, uncut and clean.

 

Junkies in The Netherlands aren't supposed to inject in public, there are buildings assigned for that specifically with social workers and police around. It's done that way to keep them away from the public, but naturally some junkies are stubborn and go inject in some park.

 

What I'm saying is that if you value honesty then it's important to avoid having a rose tinted perspective of a country that is, in fact, far from problem free. It's important to accept that those policies are not some magical cure-all.

 

I'm not saying it's problem free, neither am I saying it's a magical cure. I'm saying that it tempers the power and influence of hardcore criminal organisations in The Netherlands itself. I'm not talking about European criminal organisations from outside The Netherlands that have dealings there, I'm talking about the dynamics within The Netherlands itself.

 

That it's simply not true to assert that legalising and regulating these activities have resulted in criminals being uncompetitive and therefore having to leave the marketplace.

 

I'm not saying they left the marketplace, I'm saying their power and influence has been tempered due to the hefty competition. They very well may have transformed into legal versions of themselves, but milder versions.

 

In reality, what often happens is that they step up their activities a gear in order to remain "competitive".

 

I know of a legal "coffeeshop" in The Netherlands that attracts 4000 customers a day, that's a big operation, completely public out in the open. There's no way a criminal organisation can compete with that. That's like trying to compete with Walmart.

 

I agree with you that its not all rainbows and unicorns. It's certainly not a perfect solution. What I'm saying is that it's a better alternative.

Edited October 22, 2011 by Nexus One

[Floridaman]

http://tinyurl.com/3l2kltf

Let's just say, it's a good way to meet people. It widens your social circle, not just because of the people there, but new people are often brought into the group on a regular basis. I do know people who have dated among group members. Some dated for a long period of time. Some got married to each other. Some dated briefly and parted as friends, but still continued to attend the group and remained friends. For more serious, long term relationships that did eventually break up, I can imagine it would be difficult to still attend that same group together, but then people would try a different group as you did. It's still a good plan, I believe.

Did say it was a SMALL disadvantage.

Life is full of risks.

I really should have handled myself better during that breakup.

 

Of course, I wasn't mature, being my first real love, knew nothing about relationships, was clingy, built my world around her, and made all the mistakes guys like me typically make.

When she started talking about getting engaged....

 

That's one reason I recommend guys (and gals) learn non-chalance.

Saw myself in those threads.

 

"Nonchalance is your friend" explains the benefits of playing it cool, not acting like this other person you're dating is "the one," acting like you can live without him or her, etc.

http://www.enotalone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=224140

 

 

The lyrics in this great 1970s heartbreak song express how I felt during the breakup (except the best friend part).

 

Jim Croce. Operator. 1973.

http://tinyurl.com/3l2kltf

 

Isn’t that the way they say it goes

But let’s forget all that

And give me the number if you can find it

So I can call just to tell them I’m fine and to show

I’ve overcome the blow

I’ve learned to take it well

I only wish my words could just convince myself

That it just wasn’t real

But that’s not the way it feels

 

Operator, oh could you help me place this call

’cause I can’t read the number that you just gave me

There’s something in my eye’s

You know it happens every time I think about the love that i thought would save me

[fortyninethousand322]

 

The lyrics in this great 1970s heartbreak song express how I felt during the breakup (except the best friend part).

 

Jim Croce. Operator. 1973.

http://tinyurl.com/3l2kltf

 

Isn’t that the way they say it goes

But let’s forget all that

And give me the number if you can find it

So I can call just to tell them I’m fine and to show

I’ve overcome the blow

I’ve learned to take it well

I only wish my words could just convince myself

That it just wasn’t real

But that’s not the way it feels

 

Operator, oh could you help me place this call

’cause I can’t read the number that you just gave me

There’s something in my eye’s

You know it happens every time I think about the love that i thought would save me

 

Love that song Floridaman, it's been one of my favorites for a long time. If only someone didn't plant a tree at the end of that airport runway Mr. Croce could have give us more just like it.

[Floridaman]

Love that song Floridaman, it's been one of my favorites for a long time. If only someone didn't plant a tree at the end of that airport runway Mr. Croce could have give us more just like it.

You get the feelin' Jim Croce (who wrote the song) actually experienced that breakup-- the woman he thought would marry ( "I think about the love that i thought would save me") goes and marries his "best old ex-friend Ray..."

 

My big breakup wasn't like that, she ended it. But still hurt and I didn't know how to handle it.

 

There were no internet forums to tell me about going No Contact, or how to be "non-chalant" while dating. Didn't have anyone to help me.

 

Really, shouldn't have felt uncomfortable returning to that singles group.

All the others would have welcomed me back and said,

"Fla. Man, it's good to see you.... Where you been?"

Would have simply said busy doing other things, not explain why. They knew me and her were serious and would understand.

 

Learned a lesson in that experience and though I was disappointed, never let future breakups shatter my confidence.

Never again called-in work "sick" and spent the whole day in my apt. next to a box of kleenex....

Well, I was sick. Would've been a wreck at work had I had gone in...

 

I immediately returned to dating and had a couple of LTRs.

Met my REAL love and got into a serious relationship just 4 yrs. later @30.

4 yrs. really isn't a long time, so guys, love can be just around the corner....

 

Why I think some of you guys, the "inexperienced" ones in your late 20s and 30s --

if you put some effort into dating, you could be

 

-dating more people (within 1-3 months)

-seriously dating someone ( within 6 mos. -year)

-in a LTR ( within 1-2 years)

-engaged (within 2-4 years).

Edited October 22, 2011 by Floridaman

[Taramere]

I know of a legal "coffeeshop" in The Netherlands that attracts 4000 customers a day, that's a big operation, completely public out in the open. There's no way a criminal organisation can compete with that. That's like trying to compete with Walmart.

 

That's not Checkpoint is it? It was the biggest coffeeshop in the Netherlands. It had to close down a few years ago, and was the owner was fined 10 million Euros last year for overstepping the boundaries/being involved in a criminal organisation.

 

It's the big problem with the coffee shops. Yes, the law permits people to partake of a limited amount in a coffee shop, and it's all very open...but the difficulty relates to how the coffee shop owners get their supplies. If their suppliers were Joe Bloggs making a tidy sideline growing a few cannabis plants in his spare room then fine. Unfortunately, cultivation for commercial purposes seems to be largely in the mafia's hands...hence the clamping down on coffefe houses.

 

I agree with you that its not all rainbows and unicorns. It's certainly not a perfect solution. What I'm saying is that it's a better alternative.

 

 

Whether it's drug use or prostitution, I'm fully with you in that I'm not in favour of prosecuting individuals for making a modest living out of these activities. As with Joe Bloggs growing a few plants to sell to coffee shops, I don't fly into a panic about the notion of Maria the barmaid having a few pub regulars as clients for her part-time sex business.

 

Syndicates whose businesses revolve around drugs and prostitution are an entirely different matter. However, the power of those syndicates is mind-boggling. If you go to Prague, (the Czech Republic being another one where the authorities are pretty tolerant of drug use) evidence of the Russian Mafia is everywhere.

 

They own taxis, the ubiquitous "Herna bars", property that lies empty...generally more than half the city. And, of course, they own much much more outside of that region. Trying to impact on them by legalising and regulating the drug and prostitution industries is like putting "Stop or even just slow down a little bit please" signs in front of a hurricane, I think.

 

It also makes me wonder about the safety of girls who are trying to work without protection. Just as businesses in mafia controlled areas have to pay "protection money", I'd have thought prostitutes trying to work independently in an industry that is predominantly owned by the mafia are risking a lot more than just contracting an STD.

 

So for me, the better solution is where prostitutes know their clients and have regular dealings with them. Friends With Benefits who happen to pay the woman for sex because that is the business she's running.

 

When I think of some of what I've read on this board, I can't help thinking that quite a few women would be better off in that situation. Better than they are getting embroiled in FWB stuff in the futile belief that they'll be some day be loved by men who quite clearly don't want to commit to them long term.

 

Taramere - you conveyed quite an amount of what I was attempting to in a far more eloquent and articulate manner . Although we disagree with whether or not prostitution should be banned, I respect that you're interested in what the truth of the realities are and agree that it's important for people to recognize them... (if not just to consider reforms where it is legal and much troubled).

 

Thanks Onyx. Prostitution is a major moneyspinner for some terrible organisations....so when people are actively promoting it as a positive thing, like you a big part of me wonders at their priorities. However, I realise a lot of people take the view of Nexus...that they would hope that in time prostitution will be a business that is most usually controlled by the direct participants, rather than something in which they're being exploited by crime syndicates.

 

Whether that can ever become the norm, given the power wielded by crime syndicates, and the ruthlessness with which they hang onto their monopolies, is debatable. However, I guess one step is to focus not so much on trying to shame men who visit prostitutes out of that activity, more about urging them to take some reasonable care to ensure that their money is going into that woman's pocket (whether to feed her kids or to buy herself a pair of shoes).

 

If they're not taking that reasonable care, then they're potentially helping to fund very serious criminal activities - and for that, I believe they should feel the weight of the criminal law. Just as anybody else who was knowingly or recklessly funding crime syndicates would feel it.

[Woggle]

Personally I don't like US centric discussions because they're based on too may illogical assumptions. Like a system which intentionally creates a desperate underclass of poor then bemoans desperate women doing something to make a decent buck through prostitution. So they make prostitution illegal, driving them further into desperation, then blaming that on prostitution and not the illegalisation and therefore alienation of prostitutes or the initial situation of desperate poverty. It makes no farking sense at all.

 

There is also the issue of huge religious undertones in these kinds of discussions. Plus radical feminists who just want to boo hoo anything which they think gives men power.

 

Some of you ladies need to sit down with some sort of doctor or scientist and discuss the actual facts of life... not the version that oprah or doctor phill told you about because men love to root and it is not just about love either.

 

I also think that in developed countries women are still ridiculously holding out for mr right at age 27 which drives a lot of men to legal brothels where they can have sex with hot chicks.

 

 

Very true. Keeping prostitution illegal does nothing but allow some people to keep their superiority complexes. Exactly what is the difference between a prostitute and a gold digger anyway?

[AHardDaysNight]

Exactly what is the difference between a prostitute and a gold digger anyway?

 

A prostitute you pay once for sex.

 

A gold digger, you pay several times for companionship, which may or may not include sex.

[Woggle]

A prostitute you pay once for sex.

 

A gold digger, you pay several times for companionship, which may or may not include sex.

 

Which is exactly why some radical feminists want to ban the former and defend the latter. The first is an honest transaction that a man pays for once and pays again if he wants more the second is a dishonest thing that a man can pay for for life if he is not careful.

[AHardDaysNight]

Which is exactly why some radical feminists want to ban the former and defend the latter. The first is an honest transaction that a man pays for once and pays again if he wants more the second is a dishonest thing that a man can pay for for life if he is not careful.

 

Radical feminists. Key word: Radical.

 

Don't hate all feminists, because there are like 7 different types. Radical being the man haters.

[Woggle]

Radical feminists. Key word: Radical.

 

Don't hate all feminists, because there are like 7 different types. Radical being the man haters.

 

I fully agree. They are to feminism what the religious right is to christianity.