Your view on male virginity vs male use of prostitution

[Woggle]

Even with all her shortcomings, I would still take a loving woman who went to the altar with me over a paid sex worker.

 

Very true. I wouldn't trade what I have for a sex worker any day but a woman like that is hard to find so some have to find other options.

[AHardDaysNight]

I would definitely date a woman who had been married before, or had kids.

 

I know such a woman, who was my best friend in high school. However, she is now dating someone else. I'm happy for her, but I was considering asking her out.

 

I am not opposed to single moms, or divorced or widowed. And yes, I would take them over a sex worker (I probably will never go to a hooker, even if they make it legal.)

[carhill]

At least with a prostitute a man knows he is just a mean ticket in her eyes. There are many marriages where men have no idea what their wives really think of them.

Yeah, unlike the nebula surrounding virginity, 'losing it' and, later, the ambiguities of romance and marriage, a prostitute is clarity in the extreme. There are no ambiguities, no misunderstandings, no expectations not in evidence. It appears some legal brothels accept credit cards and some even offer spend-related gas cards to offset the costs of driving to their relatively remote locations.

 

I'm finding it interesting that, even having gone through a relatively love-less M, my perspective on prostitution hasn't changed. I recall, when seeing them everyday and struggling with dating and women in general, I often thought it would be cheaper and easier to just use the streetwalkers, but something stopped me. That something is still there. It's just not right for me. For some other men, evidently it is right for them. Some women too

[Woggle]

I have never used one either. The one time in my life I wanted nothing more than casual sex part of it was getting it from willing partners. I needed that ego boost after a horrible marriage.

[123321]

I am not opposed to single moms, or divorced or widowed. And yes, I would take them over a sex worker (I probably will never go to a hooker, even if they make it legal.)

 

Would you date a career woman who put herself through college by turning tricks when money was tight?

[KathyM]

 

 

 

 

 

 

When you cough up movie moments like this it just makes me more sure you have zero idea what you're talking about.

 

Movie moments, huh? Well, don't kid yourself. I've read so many testimonies of prostitutes and clients and interviewed a man for a research project who had gone to a few during his separation from his wife (a friend of mine). It's 1/2 hour, no kissing, no emotional connection, all just an act for the sole purpose of getting your money. A very empty experience for both. Don't delude yourself into thinking there's something more than that.

[somedude81]

all just an act for the sole purpose of getting your money.

Hopefully you're aware that most jobs that require human interaction involve an act to get the other person's money.

 

A prostitute is a saleswoman, so of course she's going to try her best to make her customer happy. That's what sales and good service is.

 

Only a fool would expect love or intimacy from a hooker, that's not what she is selling.

 

And no, you have no idea if she is desperate or damaged. Sure some may be, but not all.

 

Prostitution simply is the easiest way for a woman to make a lot of money without needing an education.

 

A woman who charges $300 an hour could make $1,200 a month if she only saw one client a week.

 

Sure there is some danger in it, but making prostitution legal would only make things safer for her.

 

The absolute most important thing is to avoid drugs and using a middle-man.

Edited October 24, 2011 by somedude81

[KathyM]

It's not ideal, but it certainly is a lot better than nothing.

 

I have to say the vast majority of my sexual experiences have been pretty devoid of emotions. I've had a few one night stands with women back in my jock/popular guy days and it was no more loving and emotional than banging a hooker.

 

I hope you've never had a one night stand and never will, if you have then you are a hypocrite as are most people who make emotional type arguments against prostitution.

 

There are a lot of women that pretend to do a billion things and use men much worse than any hooker ever will. If you want to selectively pontificate against hookers (and whether you'll admit or not, it's because you find the idea that men can just pay to have sex a huge threat to your leverage with men) you better call for the ban of women using men (and not even giving them sex).

 

We don't give a **** about emotion, some of us just want to get laid. If it's with someone I really care about that's a bonus, but that doesn't seem like a realistic expectation at this point, so I'll be happy with something that is female.

I wouldn't do a ONS. And I've never used men or tried to have leverage over them. I think some of the guys on LS are kind of paranoid about women, and so afraid that they're going to take advantage of you or something. Heaven forbid you should pay for some dates. There's no guarantees in the dating world. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't. You're not buying any rights to someone when you date them. You are spending time and a little money on getting to know people. Maybe it will work out, maybe it won't. That's life. That's the chance you take. If you try to think of women as something more than just an object that needs to put out, then your dating experiences might be more favorable.

[joystickd]

 

Prostitution is an admirable profession and if people were not so god damned frigid about sex then these women would be treated very well but frigid people who are afraid of sex drive them into the shadows, for some strange illogical reason.

 

I wouldnt say admirable but I will say probably a lot of the reason they get treated the way they do is the perception of it. I look at it like the promiscuous women out here that do it for free. I have seen some do gangbangs for free but they look like you are crazy when you say hey how about you make your slut behavior pay off.

On the virginity side though I will say I was ashamed for a long time to say I was a virgin. I lost it at 25. Men place an importance on it because the only reason we do certain things in life like career, house, car etc is to get a woman. I remember a while back where I live a pharmacist killed himself because he couldn't get a woman. There is a certain level of inadequacy that comes with not being able to get a woman and a man can potentially feel no reason to do anything in his life. I dont advocate getting a prostitute because there are some women out here doing whore behavior for free so why waste the money.

[somedude81]

Men place an importance on it because the only reason we do certain things in life like career, house, car etc is to get a woman. I remember a while back where I live a pharmacist killed himself because he couldn't get a woman. There is a certain level of inadequacy that comes with not being able to get a woman and a man can potentially feel no reason to do anything in his life.

Bingo.

 

That is exactly how I feel. Almost to the point that there is no reason to get a career and a house if I'm just going to be alone my whole life. Why even bother?

 

I rather not be alone and depressed the next 40 years of my life.

[KathyM]

Hopefully you're aware that most jobs that require human interaction involve an act to get the other person's money.

 

A prostitute is a saleswoman, so of course she's going to try her best to make her customer happy. That's what sales and good service is.

 

Only a fool would expect love or intimacy from a hooker, that's not what she is selling.

 

And no, you have no idea if she is desperate or damaged. Sure some may be, but not all.

 

Prostitution simply is the easiest way for a woman to make a lot of money without needing an education.

 

A woman who charges $300 an hour could make $1,200 a month if she only saw one client a week.

 

Sure there is some danger in it, but making prostitution legal would only make things safer for her.

 

The absolute most important thing is to avoid drugs and using a middle-man.

 

It's not safe enough, dear boy, and it never will be, even if it is legalized. Because there will always be perverts who want to abuse and degrade, or get it without paying for it. And you may think that you are avoiding a middle man when you text or Email that person, but the person on the other end of the line who may be sending you those confirmation texts or Emails is oftentimes the pimp himself who sets the time and place for his workers, and then takes his cut from what you pay her. So don't kid yourself. It's not the benign scenario that you may think.

[somedude81]

It's not safe enough, dear boy, and it never will be, even if it is legalized. Because there will always be perverts who want to abuse and degrade, or get it without paying for it.

Uh, if it was legalized it would be much safer. Why you ask. Because she'd be able to call the police.

 

And you may think that you are avoiding a middle man when you text or Email that person, but the person on the other end of the line who may be sending you those confirmation texts or Emails is oftentimes the pimp himself who sets the time and place for his workers, and then takes his cut from what you pay her. So don't kid yourself. It's not the benign scenario that you may think.

When I said to avoid the middleman, I was talking about the woman. Nobody has to use one.

 

Either way, setting up an appointment without talking directly to the woman beforehand just sounds like trouble waiting to happen.

[KathyM]

I wouldnt say admirable but I will say probably a lot of the reason they get treated the way they do is the perception of it. I look at it like the promiscuous women out here that do it for free. I have seen some do gangbangs for free but they look like you are crazy when you say hey how about you make your slut behavior pay off.

On the virginity side though I will say I was ashamed for a long time to say I was a virgin. I lost it at 25. Men place an importance on it because the only reason we do certain things in life like career, house, car etc is to get a woman. I remember a while back where I live a pharmacist killed himself because he couldn't get a woman. There is a certain level of inadequacy that comes with not being able to get a woman and a man can potentially feel no reason to do anything in his life. I dont advocate getting a prostitute because there are some women out here doing whore behavior for free so why waste the money.

So the only reason you have a career, a house or a car is to get a woman? And you don't get any enjoyment yourself from those things? They are all worthless and meaningless if there is no woman in your life? That doesn't make any sense. A woman is only part of a man's life. It shouldn't be everything.

[joystickd]

Everytime I hear of pimp I think of the exploitation that goes on in the legal sector. The Pimp is no different than the record exec that gets a artist to sign to some crappy record deal and when their career is over the artist is broke because their publishings and rights belong to the exec or the worker that comes up with an idea to improve something and their boss takes the credit. No matter what you do there is always going to be some exploitation. you are either the boss or you are going to take orders.

[KathyM]

Uh, if it was legalized it would be much safer. Why you ask. Because she'd be able to call the police.

Maybe in a brothel it's a little safer for the woman than meeting the guy alone.

 

When I said to avoid the middleman, I was talking about the woman. Nobody has to use one.

 

 

Either way, setting up an appointment without talking directly to the woman beforehand just sounds like trouble waiting to happen.

Most prostitutes don't take direct calls. They take texts or Emails, and from the testimonies I read, the person fielding those texts and Emails is oftentimes the pimp. Many still do use pimps, you just don't know it, because you don't ever meet the pimp, but he still gets his cut.

[oldguy]

Originally Posted by KathyM

It's not safe enough, dear boy, and it never will be, even if it is legalized. Because there will always be perverts who want to abuse and degrade, or get it without paying for it.

 

It's much safer where it is legal & most prostitutes work mostly regulars where it's legal, & I'm NOT supporting prostitution here. And your right, there are still pimps who get their cut however in Vegas they are called agencies.

Edited October 24, 2011 by oldguy

[123321]

Movie moments, huh? Well, don't kid yourself. I've read so many testimonies of prostitutes and clients and interviewed a man for a research project who had gone to a few during his separation from his wife (a friend of mine). It's 1/2 hour, no kissing, no emotional connection, all just an act for the sole purpose of getting your money. A very empty experience for both. Don't delude yourself into thinking there's something more than that.

 

Wow "read testimonies". Well I guess you're an expert and the literally hundreds of prostitutes I've known were just putting up an act. The countless times I've watched them kissing guys to "seal the deal" were apparently all just in my imagination.

 

Or you still don't know what you're talking about.

 

I'm gonna go with option 'B' on that one since I still believe my own eyes over what you read. Here is what *I* have actually observed:

 

• The women I have known in the business didn't have to "go with" (this is the common phrase, BTW) anyone they didn't want to. Of course there is a strong financial incentive but I have seen many many guys turned down. It's seldom about looks, generally it was a matter of being too drunk, an ass, or a simple matter of hygiene. A few girls I know in the biz have very specific requirements for customers, but of course they don't go with as many guys. I assume they earn less but never asked. One for instance would only "go with" young good looking guys under about 30, she was certainly just using the place as a boyfriend hunting ground.
• Not a single one (did I mention I know hundreds?) will go for 30 minutes. That's not even time enough to get to a room and undressed, I don't see how it's even possible. Typically they go for the entire evening but sometimes shorter, I've seen them go out in the early afternoon and return later in the evening, for instance. They always have to have a few drinks or otherwise socially interact with the guy to decide if he's OK to go with; it's just common sense. Usually they go for the evening, and they go out bar hopping or shoot pool or whatever for a bit and then when the evening is getting late they accompany the guy home or whatever.
• Many of the women end up leaving the work and in relationships with guys they met as customers or socially in the house. This is one reason the turnover rate is high. In fact, I have dated a few myself although I only bought drinks and such, and waited for their work shift to be over. Why pay more than you have to when a little charm and patience will work just as well?
• Kissing is common, in fact, I would wager that the only time it doesn't happen is at the customers request. Think about it; building an emotional bond is a great tool for getting return business and, if possible, into an LTR and out of the brothel.

[123321]

It's not safe enough, dear boy, and it never will be, even if it is legalized.

 

If it's safety, where is the angst over young men who work in high risk jobs all the time? Why not ban high rise window washing, large construction projects, mines, and other risky work that is responsible for men dying in virtually 100% of workplace fatalities? Hmmm, maybe it's really about dirty dirty sex.

[Floridaman]

Originally Posted by KathyM

It's not safe enough, dear boy, and it never will be, even if it is legalized.

 

If it's safety, where is the angst over young men who work in high risk jobs all the time? Why not ban high rise window washing, large construction projects, mines, and other risky work that is responsible for men dying in virtually 100% of workplace fatalities? Hmmm, maybe it's really about dirty dirty sex.

 

Methinks there is angst over certain things, like the anti-bullying movement, people worried about their sons participating in sports where they could suffer injuries (ala boxing).

 

You need to acknowledge that Kathy likely knows more about the subject than you, having researched it.

Your experience, on the other hand, appears to be from the customer side, so you naturally become defensive when someone argues otherwise.

Edited October 24, 2011 by Floridaman

[Floridaman]

 

"when did you last have sex?" is a question I've been asked before, and it never bodes well. Because the other person recognizes that you're uncomfortable, and logically makes the right assumptions.

 

I have never been asked that question.

Originally Posted by Floridaman

Who's asking you that?

 

More importantly: why?

Last time was 3 years ago, by a co-worker when I was working at Krogers.

 

This dude was a friend, but he was also a bit of a player. He and his girlfriend both worked there, and when they broke up he had a new girlfriend a few days later.

 

He confided in me that he had been chasing skirts since kindergarten, and had never had any trouble with the ladies.

 

Anyway, I answered with a lie "2 years ago." He said, "man, you gotta get some sex! 2 years is way too long!"

 

If I had answered truthfully, I probably would have been mocked as "The 25 Year Old Virgin."

YellowSubmarine,

That's only one datapoint, as Carhill would quip.

 

That guy may have nailed many women, but he really wasn't any kind of expert on what guys like us should or shouldn't do with women. He sounds like a player only interested in getting into a woman's vagina.

 

From your posts, you don't appear to be that kind of guy.

 

You had your reasons for not being a player:

Shyness, wanting the right relationship, religious feelings, wanting your first time to be special, wanting to fall in love with a Good Girl, waiting for marriage, etc.

Even if you didn't have such reasons, and were just plain unlucky at love,

it's still your life and the thing is, you get to decide what to do with it.

 

Let's just get this over with now:

Players like him can have all the women they want. It doesn't affect me or my life. As long as he doesn't try for my gal !!!

 

If all the single guys in their 20s and 30s that worked with you at that Krogers met in a room or over dinner and discussed their relationship experience, believe me, there would be more virgin or less-experienced men than you'd think.

And don't think all of them would tell the truth. Some would exaggerate their conquests (like your friend) while the ones like you might fib to not "look bad."

 

Of course, Good Girls can fall for Bad Boys like your colleague, and some of them may frown on a guy not having "experience," but you needn't let anyone else try to make you feel low or inferior about ANYTHING.

Edited October 24, 2011 by Floridaman

[123321]

Your experience, on the other hand, appears to be from the customer side,

 

Nah, mine is "real life witness to the facts" instead of "read it in a book".

[Floridaman]

Nah, mine is "real life witness to the facts" instead of "read it in a book".

 

You were waiting (and listening) outside the door?

Or maybe you were the piano player.

"Don't shoot me. I'm just the piano player !"

 

[*]Not a single one (did I mention I know hundreds?) will go for 30 minutes. That's not even time enough to get to a room and undressed, I don't see how it's even possible. Typically they go for the entire evening but sometimes shorter, I've seen them go out in the early afternoon and return later in the evening, for instance.

 

....

 

 

[*]Kissing is common, in fact, I would wager that the only time it doesn't happen is at the customers request. Think about it; building an emotional bond is a great tool for getting return business and, if possible, into an LTR and out of the brothel.

Edited October 24, 2011 by Floridaman

[Floridaman]

Nah, mine is "real life witness to the facts" instead of "read it in a book".

Like reseearchers do, Kathy likely ran a lit search to see what others in the field have published, then conducted her own in-person interviews.

That's hardly reading "a book."

[somedude81]

Like reseearchers do, Kathy likely ran a lit search to see what others in the field have published, then conducted her own in-person interviews.

That's hardly reading "a book."

Here you go

 

I've read so many testimonies of prostitutes and clients and interviewed a man for a research project who had gone to a few during his separation from his wife (a friend of mine).

Sounds like she did one in-person interview and it was her friends husband.

Edited October 24, 2011 by somedude81

[123321]

You were waiting (and listening) outside the door?

 

No, sitting inside in the air conditioning and drinking beers, shooting pool and otherwise interacting with the girls and others in the house.

 

What do you imagine these places are like anyway, some sort of Hollywood inspired chicken-coop? It's just like a regular bar with an over-abundance of women who make money getting guys to buy them over-priced drinks.