Your view on male virginity vs male use of prostitution

[AHardDaysNight]

Well there is something to work on. It only takes one shrink to change a light bulb but it takes a long time, a lot of commitment & the most important thing is; the light bulb must want to change'.

 

Hey, dating is fun if you leave your agendas at home and just go out & enjoy the event with no preconceived notions or expectations but to enjoy the occasion. So start dating & report back to your shrink or tell us here on LS how it goes

 

Yeah, I suppose so.

 

I just need to put myself out there.

Edited October 25, 2011 by AHardDaysNight

[Metis]

Also just because some religious people are hypocrites does not mean all people of faith are. I can't stand the religious anymore than anybody else but for some people it is a positive force in their lives. I know people who have gone off of drugs and alcohol for good after turning to god. If this is what helps them live a better life what is wrong with that?

 

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with religion helping people to live a better life. What I am saying is, being religious does not automatically make one a good person. In fact, it's just as likely to make one an ******* as it is to make one a swell guy. Sure, some people get off drugs and alcohol after turning to God. On the other hand, other people drop out of school, quit productive employment and become abusive after turning to God. Religion can provide a tool for rationalization, or a crutch, but it generally does not change people's personalities. Much as I hate to quote The Merchant of Venice, "the Devil will cite Scripture for his purpose."

 

The point is, this hypothetical woman who characterizes the extreme religiosity of virgins is a mere difference of opinion represents a prime example of grass being greener on the other side. Being secular, and interacting with a religious person on an intimate level, it's not like having a difference of opinion on, say, the literary merits of Conan Doyle's stories. Religion itself isn't an opinion; it is a lifestyle (which does not being and end with virginity), a system of values (not limited to the issue of virginity and not all of them nice) and a worldview much of which may be weird, offensive or unacceptable to someone who isn't religious. That's all.

[KathyM]

So there is no exploitation, degradation , disease, or abuse outside of the John-Hooker realm?

 

It's possible, but not as likely as you'd think (or rather, want people to think) to catch a STD from regulated hookers. A woman who doesn't use condoms loses her license and they get checked frequently for STD's. Can I say the same about the average woman? No. You're way more likely to catch something with a girl who has casual sex for free then from a hooker.

 

In fact, judging from the type of man I see women have casual sex with, sometimes without a condom (especially those who use birth control), I think the chances of getting something from the average woman are far greater than from a regulated, licensed prostitute in Germany or the Netherlands.

 

The higher rate of disease among street walkers can be attributed to lifestyle as much as the fact that they have sex for a living.

 

Stop the hypocrisy. If you're against prostitution because you believe in sexual morals, i can respect that and would agree. But if you want to argue that having casual sex for money is worse than getting wasted, forgetting to use a condom and having a one night stand with some womanizer, then you are not arguing with logic. Just admit that this is about woman privilege and maintaining their sexual dictatorship to get men to do their bidding, rather than for any higher or moral reason.

 

 

The vast majority of women of my generation have had a one night stand with some frat boy or womanizer at some point, if you want to ban prostitution you better support laws banning this activity too. Those are the only logical terms you can work with.

Just because there is abuse, degradation, etc. in other scenarios apart from prostitution doesn't make it any less so in the prostitution realm. As a trained legal advocate for abused women and children, I am all too familiar with other areas where women are abused and degraded. Porn, for one thing, comes to mind. If you read that thread, and go to the website Pink Cross, you'll see plenty about the harm and abuse that those women suffer as well. I would agree with you that unprotected sex with a permiscuous woman is more unsafe than protected sex with a prostitute. Doesn't mean that the risk is not there. You can always find something more risky. Unprotected sex with homosexual men you meet online is also high risk behavior. What's your point? That because there are other risky behaviors out there, that you shouldn't be concerned about this one? I am personally against prostitution for moral reasons, but it is much more than that. Prostitution is damaging to people and damaging to society. It supports a harmful lifestyle, puts money into the hands of criminals, and destroys relationships and families, as well as disrespects women and turns them into commodities for consumption like cattle. It's dehumanizing and causes men to have a concept of women as objects to be used and abused.

[Wolf18]

KATHYM

 

Just because there is abuse, degradation, etc. in other scenarios apart from prostitution doesn't make it any less so in the prostitution realm.[/Quote]

 

That's fine, the point was that if you're going to legislate prostitution for those reasons, you're going to have to have to legislate all other sexual behavior. If you want to just legislate sexual activity that benefits men you are a hypocrite.

 

 

As a trained legal advocate for abused women and children, I am all too familiar with other areas where women are abused and degraded. Porn, for one thing, comes to mind.[/Quote]

 

So I hope you support banning Porn too?

 

Do you not see the hypocrisy in a country that doesn't let you **** for money unless somebody films it? Porn is way worse than prostitution and has way more long term psychological effects on men and women than hookers ever did.

 

So where does the legislation end?

 

If you read that thread, and go to the website Pink Cross, you'll see plenty about the harm and abuse that those women suffer as well. I would agree with you that unprotected sex with a permiscuous woman is more unsafe than protected sex with a prostitute. Doesn't mean that the risk is not there. You can always find something more risky. Unprotected sex with homosexual men you meet online is also high risk behavior.[/Quote]

 

So do you support banning casual sex and homosexuality because of the disease and immorality associated with such lifestyles?

 

What's your point? That because there are other risky behaviors out there, that you shouldn't be concerned about this one?[/Quote]

 

No, I'm not any more concerned about banging a regulated hooker than I am about driving a car, or have a cigarette, or eating a hamburger, or any potentially detrimental risks we take because we think the reward outweighs the consequence.

 

The fact that you can catch something just as easy or easier from an every day woman doesn't really make prostitutes look that bad.

 

I am personally against prostitution for moral reasons, but it is much more than that. Prostitution is damaging to people and damaging to society.[/Quote]

 

So are certain TV shows and movies. So is Nike sneakers who employ child labor in dangerous conditions.

 

It supports a harmful lifestyle, puts money into the hands of criminals,[/Quote]

 

So does paying my taxes. Atleast if I bang a prostitute I get something out of it.

 

and destroys relationships and families,[/Quote]

 

 

Myth. If your man is running off with prostitutes, then that isn't anyone's fault but you and him.

 

You know there are some cases where married men cheat on their wives with hookers, but from my experience in brothels, most of the clientele is young, single men and maybe a few older bachelors. Why would anyone pay for sex when they have it at home waiting?? A lot of times married guys will go to a brothel to accompany their friends, have a drink , etc, but that doesn't necessarily mean they have sex with them.

 

as well as disrespects women and turns them into commodities for consumption like cattle.[/Quote]

 

Women do that to themselves every day. Just look at the kind of clothes modern women wear, or all the women who make pornography. Women often times, act like commodity so this is a non-issue.

 

It's dehumanizing and causes men to have a concept of women as objects to be used and abused. [/Quote]

 

So what? Women have that mentality about men they date. The women who are prostitutes dehumanize and have a concept of the men that they serve that these mens are objects to be used and abused.

 

To legislate against people being used is such a ridiculous slippery slope that I don't know how people like you are able to dictate the laws in this stupid country.

[AHardDaysNight]

Of all the reasons to reject a man, him being a virgin is one of the least common. It's also pretty important.

 

Unless you're telling girls that you're a virgin before you ask them out, they aren't rejecting you because of what you are.

 

Nonsense. If someone is a virgin, and doesn't tell her before they have sex, she'll assume that he's a bad lay, come on a relationship site like this one, and hear all about "sexual incompatibility."

 

If he tells her, she has the choice to either reject or accept him. I agree that if they have been dating for months, and she is in love with him, she won't reject him based upon his virginity...but if they follow the "three date sex rule", then that gives her a perfect reason to bow out and leave him scarred.

 

And no, I've never revealed I'm a virgin, except online on anonymous forums. I'm pretty sure that everyone knows I am one, though...although they usually jump to the conclusion that I'm gay!

[Floridaman]

Nonsense. If someone is a virgin, and doesn't tell her before they have sex, she'll assume that he's a bad lay, come on a relationship site like this one, and hear all about "sexual incompatibility."

You're making some assumptons here.

If you feel you weren't "so great," and she asks, or looks at you like "what went wrong?," just say "it's been a while."

First times usually aren't that great anyway, so don't be so worried about that.

If he tells her, she has the choice to either reject or accept him.

I agree that if they have been dating for months, and she is in love with him, she won't reject him based upon his virginity...but if they follow the "three date sex rule", then that gives her a perfect reason to bow out and leave him scarred.

Then don't follow that "rule."

Many women (and men) aren't comfortable with that, and getting too sexual too soon is a good way to kill what could be a great relationship.

Speakin' from experience here.

And no, I've never revealed I'm a virgin, except online on anonymous forums. I'm pretty sure that everyone knows I am one, though...although they usually jump to the conclusion that I'm gay!

How would people guess you're a virgin, BeatlesGuy?

 

Unless you overeact with obvious nervousness or awkwardness when someone around you tells a lightly-sexual joke (not hardcore, explicit stuff)...

If that's the case, try to lighten up and not take such things personally...

 

Just like Carhill posted in his experience being around the prostitutes near where he worked, none of them, nor the prostitutes' customers, could tell he was a virgin.

Methinks virgins are kind of invisible and the state of one's sexual experience isn't usually obvious.

 

 

Beatlesman,

I wouldn't get too hung-up on your virginity. It's really a minor issue in comparison to the bigger issue pressing you:

your social anxiety and (understandable) desperation for a relationship.

 

Focus on getting women to go out with you.

 

Remain cool and confident on the dates, acting like you know what you're doing and am comfortable with your life, life itself and others, like OldGuy recommended.

 

During the first dates, don't put too much pressure on yourself.

You'll be dating many women, and many times you won't get a second or third date (speakin' from experience again), so relax and don't imagine the women you meet in these early dates could be "the one..."

 

Some of the women you date, quite frankly, you may not want to pursue.

Just like women aren't always attracted to the personalities of the guys they date, and then end the relationship in its early stages.

That's just the way it goes. (Tryin' to prepare some of you guys for the inevitible).

 

Start dating and your virginity worries may depart.

Edited October 25, 2011 by Floridaman

[123321]

Just because there is abuse, degradation, etc. in other scenarios apart from prostitution doesn't make it any less so in the prostitution realm.

 

So why single prostitution out for LEGISLATION? Look, I think it's a ****ty line of work and I'd never advocate for anyone to get into it, but forcing someone to drink beer and proscribing that same adult from having it are both equally evil.

 

Substitute any consensual adult activity for drinking beer and I think you can get the point.

 

 

 

 

Unprotected sex with homosexual men you meet online is also high risk behavior. What's your point? That because there are other risky behaviors out there, that you shouldn't be concerned about this one?

 

That managing life risk on behalf of full grown adult citizens is not the legitimate role of law in society, and it's is not used that way except in a few very "sinful" cases.

 

 

 

 

So do you support banning casual sex and homosexuality because of the disease and immorality associated with such lifestyles?

 

...

 

The fact that you can catch something just as easy or easier from an every day woman doesn't really make prostitutes look that bad.

 

The reason it doesn't make sense is because it's based on forcing one groups morals onto another group, all the other "arguments" are just hand waving.

[Floridaman]

Originally Posted by Floridaman

 

You're not a virgin only bec. you lost it in a less-noble method, via escorts as you posted.

 

So drunk-fucking your 17 year old prom date is "noble" but seeing a sex professional is not. Interesting theories you have, please subscribe me to your newsletter.

 

Bec. other people do wrong things, that makes the first wrong okay?

 

Never did I post that someone having sex while intoxicated -- or doing any other number of things -- is great or "more noble" than visiting a prostitute.

 

You're so blinded by your zeal to protect and promote prostitution you're not thinking well.

At least Kathy uses evidence and studies.

 

You ever read your own writing?

[aj22one]

Bec. other people do wrong things, that makes the first wrong okay?

 

Never did I post that someone having sex while intoxicated -- or doing any other number of things -- is great or "more noble" than visiting a prostitute.

 

You're so blinded by your zeal to protect and promote prostitution you're not thinking well.

At least Kathy uses evidence and studies.

 

You ever read your own writing?

 

I don't think he's promoting prostitution, more like promoting freedom. Regardless of how you feel about it, certainly you don't want big government to step in and dictate to people how they can live their lives?

[123321]

I don't think he's promoting prostitution, more like promoting freedom. Regardless of how you feel about it, certainly you don't want big government to step in and dictate to people how they can live their lives?

 

Exactly. It's interesting that people who have already made up their minds only see what they like to see, one even concluding that I'm a pimp. Nothing could be further from the truth. In fact I wouldn't recommend this "career choice" to anyone. I also wouldn't recommend professional skydiving, but I wouldn't make it ILLEGAL.

[aj22one]

Exactly. It's interesting that people who have already made up their minds only see what they like to see, one even concluding that I'm a pimp. Nothing could be further from the truth. In fact I wouldn't recommend this "career choice" to anyone. I also wouldn't recommend professional skydiving, but I wouldn't make it ILLEGAL.

 

Heck, just look at pro football. Those guys launch themselves at each other at high speeds, giving themselves scrambled brains, torn ligaments and broken bones. I love watching, and those guys make good money, but man what a tough way to live. Anyone going to try to make that illegal?

[AHardDaysNight]

Exactly. It's interesting that people who have already made up their minds only see what they like to see, one even concluding that I'm a pimp. Nothing could be further from the truth. In fact I wouldn't recommend this "career choice" to anyone. I also wouldn't recommend professional skydiving, but I wouldn't make it ILLEGAL.

 

I finally get where you're coming from, numbers man.

 

Yeah, I agree...the government shouldn't make it illegal. It's consenting adults, consenting to adult sex.

 

As long as both parties are over 18, I don't see anything wrong with it.

[AHardDaysNight]

I found The WayBack Machine, and found this thread. It was created 8 years ago.

 

One response, but what a response! That is what we need in these threads today, not a bunch of bitterness and misogyny!

[joystickd]

Yeah, I agree...the government shouldn't make it illegal. It's consenting adults, consenting to adult sex.

I agree also about it should be legal. A lot of men look at it like at some point you are paying for it. Dating, relationships and marriage are basically investments with pay out being sex in their opinion. I would also add that I think there are women that would not want it to be legalized because in the dating world they would lose leverage. Let's be honest here there are women that use sex as leverage to get what they want. In a sense that is no different than being a prostitute.

 

Government is a reactive entity so at some point in time a situation will happen and prostitution will be legal. It will be just like the overwhelming action of people to create prohibition and the eventual rise of organized crime and the reaction of people caused the government to react and repeal prohibition. Prostitution will be legal soon. Once corporations can figure how to get themselves into it legalization will happen

[KathyM]

Fortunately, the majority in the US still see prostitution as something harmful to society. Harmful to the participants, harmful to companions/families involved, and harmful to the values of society. And therefore, the laws on that will likely not change in this country. At least not for quite some time. One of the good things about this country is that we value people. We don't go putting them in meat markets where they are displayed like cattle for consumption. We don't go forcing our children to do slave labor, or our minorities. The day we legalize prostitution and become like the Netherlands, will be a sad day for America and a sad day for women.

[Wolf18]

Exactly. It's interesting that people who have already made up their minds only see what they like to see, one even concluding that I'm a pimp. Nothing could be further from the truth. In fact I wouldn't recommend this "career choice" to anyone. I also wouldn't recommend professional skydiving, but I wouldn't make it ILLEGAL.

 

 

I bet FloridaMangina and KathyM support things like abortion and watch pornography, then want to play the morality card about hookers.

 

The reason is that they believe everything that benefits men and makes women insecure should be banned. Men should be at the sole whim of women if they want their sexual needs met, so what if disabled, older virgins, ugly, or any other myriad of guys women cast out as untouchables have needs to, right? Pretty selfish if you ask me. I bet most women would support men dying without ever having sex even once before legalizing and regulating prostitution.

[AHardDaysNight]

I can see both sides of this argument. I can see how legalizing prostitution can be harmful. I can also see how legalizing prostitution can make it safer, in some ways.

 

It's a no-win situation. And I think that's why the police are arresting, instead of legalizing. It's better to be against it than to be for it.

[Wolf18]

Fortunately, the majority in the US still see prostitution as something harmful to society. Harmful to the participants, harmful to companions/families involved, and harmful to the values of society. And therefore, the laws on that will likely not change in this country. At least not for quite some time. One of the good things about this country is that we value people. We don't go putting them in meat markets where they are displayed like cattle for consumption. We don't go forcing our children to do slave labor, or our minorities. The day we legalize prostitution and become like the Netherlands, will be a sad day for America and a sad day for women.

 

 

That is because people in the USA are a bunch of hypocrites. This is the most sexualized society in the world, billions of dollars are made off putting women on display "like cattle for consumption" , if youre going to complain about prostitution then you need to be against all of American society including all film, paper, and TV .

 

The real reason why prostitution is illegal in America is because billions of dollars are made every year off giving men blue balls. Strip clubs, pornography, even restaurants that are dedicated to women with big cans like hooters, if men could pay 100 bucks and get laid with a decent looking chick the massive porn industry would collapse, rip off strip clubs would be empty, and Hooters would be safe because it's got good food but nobody's going to leave those broads working there a 20 dollar tip for a 30 dollar paycheck like I've seen losers do.

[Floridaman]

I bet FloridaMangina and KathyM support things like abortion and watch pornography, then want to play the morality card about hookers.

I don't support abortion.

Would never recommend any woman I dated have an abortion though realize some women will have them.

 

On pornography, I am a former porn user, as I've posted in other threads. Stopped viewing it a year ago.

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showpost.php?p=3690980&postcount=8

 

In LS threads, I strongly discourage others from viewing it for moral reasons and the degradation of women, etc.

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showpost.php?p=3696382&postcount=126

[KathyM]

I bet FloridaMangina and KathyM support things like abortion and watch pornography, then want to play the morality card about hookers.

 

The reason is that they believe everything that benefits men and makes women insecure should be banned. Men should be at the sole whim of women if they want their sexual needs met, so what if disabled, older virgins, ugly, or any other myriad of guys women cast out as untouchables have needs to, right? Pretty selfish if you ask me. I bet most women would support men dying without ever having sex even once before legalizing and regulating prostitution.

Actually, no, I am against abortion, and have never paid or supported any porn site. I have on rare occasion clicked on a few more tame porn sites to get a few ideas about sexual positions/methods, but after reading about the harm that is done to the participants as depicted on the Pink Cross website, I don't plan to support even that by clicking on a few free sites. You keep trying to depict me as a hypocrite, but that isn't going to fly with me. Sorry, bud.

[Wolf18]

don't support abortion.

Would never recommend any woman I dated have an abortion though realize some women will have them.

 

On pornography, I am a former porn user, as I've posted in other threads. Stopped viewing it a year ago.

[COLOR=#990000]http://www.loveshack.org/forums/show...80&postcount=8[/COLOR]

 

In LS threads, I strongly discourage others from viewing it for moral reasons and the degradation of women, etc.

 

[COLOR=#660000]http://www.loveshack.org/forums/show...&postcount=126[/COLOR] [/Quote]

 

So you don't watch pornography, and you don't have a girlfriend? So what do you do, meditate like a monk until your urges go away?

 

Actually, no, I am against abortion, and have never paid or supported any porn site. I have on rare occasion clicked on a few more tame porn sites to get a few ideas about sexual positions/methods, but after reading about the harm that is done to the participants as depicted on the Pink Cross website, I don't plan to support even that by clicking on a few free sites. You keep trying to depict me as a hypocrite, but that isn't going to fly with me. Sorry, bud. [/Quote]

 

No I'm trying to see what agenda you're pushing. I see it's not the feminazi one , since you oppose the murder of children. If it's the Christian one, and you have premarital sex, then yes you are a damn hypocrite.

 

What do you think men who are disabled , unattractive beyond their own power, introverted, etc do for sex? Should they die virgins? Or do you just not care about their fate, only women?

[KathyM]

So you don't watch pornography, and you don't have a girlfriend? So what do you do, meditate like a monk until your urges go away?

 

 

 

No I'm trying to see what agenda you're pushing. I see it's not the feminazi one , since you oppose the murder of children. If it's the Christian one, and you have premarital sex, then yes you are a damn hypocrite.

 

What do you think men who are disabled , unattractive beyond their own power, introverted, etc do for sex? Should they die virgins? Or do you just not care about their fate, only women?

Just stating my opinion. Food for thought. No agenda. And I don't personally believe in premarital sex. But you shouldn't expect all Christians to live perfect Biblical lives and never sin, or otherwise they are hypocrites. Being a Christian does not mean being without sin. We are all sinners. The difference is, true Christians aspire and attempt to uphold God's laws. We are not perfect. We are human. The fact that we are not perfect does not make us hypocrites. While there are some Christians who live hypocritical lives, some are trying to do our best to uphold God's laws. But we sometimes screw up. Doesn't make us hypocrites. Only makes us imperfect humans.

[somedude81]

Arguing with women about whether porn and prostitution is bad or not is pointless. Some are more close minded than others and that's just what it is.

 

And it goes both way ladies. No man is going to suddenly decide that porn and prostitution is wrong. You can bring up all sorts of feminist propaganda and it won't mean a thing.

[Wolf18]

Just stating my opinion. Food for thought. No agenda. And I don't personally believe in premarital sex. But you shouldn't expect all Christians to live perfect Biblical lives and never sin, or otherwise they are hypocrites. Being a Christian does not mean being without sin. We are all sinners. The difference is, true Christians aspire and attempt to uphold God's laws. We are not perfect. We are human. The fact that we are not perfect does not make us hypocrites. While there are some Christians who live hypocritical lives, some are trying to do our best to uphold God's laws. But we sometimes screw up. Doesn't make us hypocrites. Only makes us imperfect humans.

 

You didn't answer my question about men who will never have sex in their life without paying for it.

 

And no, there is no such thing as a half-way Christian. If you believe in a religion, you follow the rules. Having premarital sex is not the same as telling a fib or some other minor sin, you can't pick and choose the aspects of theology you want. If you are going to be religious, you better be a zealot, if not it's pointless.

 

Practicing one type of sexual immorality and then speaking against sexual immorality is indeed hypocrisy. Kind of like an alcoholic arguing to keep cocaine illegal because of how addictive or life ruining potential it has.

[ascendotum]

Fortunately, the majority in the US still see prostitution as something harmful to society. Harmful to the participants, harmful to companions/families involved, and harmful to the values of society. And therefore, the laws on that will likely not change in this country. At least not for quite some time. One of the good things about this country is that we value people.

The US? The wealthiest country in the world and how many live in poverty..how low is the mimimum wage there..how many billions are spent by lobbyists to influence the govt to do whats right for big business and those with the $ over the average citizen.