OM/OW Telling the BS?

[woinlove]

How would you know if it's classic? Who decides these things?

 

 

I meant classic in the sense that it is the more common perspective seen on LS from WS/AP actively involved in a long A. Perhaps not the best word to use as I simply meant "common" or "not unusual" for LS posters in that situation.

[Snowflower]

 

That would never have been me. I always expected her to have an affair. I hoped she wouldn't. I expected she'd have an affair around the time she hit mid-life and started to no longer look like she was in her 20's. I knew the guys she'd target. At one point, I considered warning my friend with something like "She's on the prowl, don't get involved."

 

I let her know I knew, when I knew, everything I knew, and gave her every opportunity to decide to do something different, even after D-Day.

 

 

 

 

IMO, most people would never have such low standards for the person to whom they were married. Most people would not marry or stay married to someone expecting them to have an affair someday. I know there are exceptions of course. Some people don't care or have an open marriage of sorts.

 

That's where I see the disconnect between the OP and the BS's on this thread. Most, if not all, BS who have participated in this thread had fully expected and assumed fidelity and honesty from their spouse.

 

The OP never assumed fidelity from his spouse.

 

That is where the disconnect comes from here and why the OP cannot understand why the BS shouldn't know that something is going on in a marriage, such as an affair.

 

In the case of the OP, he pretty much always knew this would happen.

 

It's as hard for him to understand a marriage where this expectation of unfaithfulness wasn't present pre-affair as it is for most BS's to understand his situation where he expected infidelity at some point.

[woinlove]

 

SMO has being very honest and forthright with you all and has told you what he knows. You're quick to call him out on knowing what kind of person his MOW is M to yet you say nothing about his WW, not that he's painted himself as the victim. I think that's what your (the general your) problem is; he's a BS but he's not crying victim like you (the general you).

 

When I referred to a script which included "The BS is a terrible person" I meant from the perspective of the WS/AP.

 

Yes, SMO's stbxw is a WW and her BS is SMO and SMO said she would describe him as an "awesome" H and he said he is "blameless" in the failure of their M. So, the stbxw's view of her BS does not follow that script and perhaps it didn't even when she was actively involved in an A (I don't know). Not everyone follows that script. I'm just saying it is a common script for WS/AP still active in the A - it certainly is not universal.

[Lostinlife4now]

Hello Everyone!

 

I am struggling with this very topic right now..To tell or not to tell. IMO I think the BS has the right to know...Yes that's right...MM has lied to her for 7 years...and now that I have ended this charade, I am of the mindset that she is living a lie. He always says.....my kids, my kids, Well you should have thought about the kids when you were sticking your d.... in me.

 

And no I don't want to ruin his world, but what about her? Let her make the decision of staying or leaving... He always had told me she would never leave him due to her lifestyle...What lifestyle, a cheating husband...Not the lifestyle I think she would want. He has said he married the wrong woman, well then why did you have kids with her? DUH!!!

 

He goes off dancing happily that he has never been caught.....going on with life as usual.....Makes me sick.....

 

what to do, what to do????

[mzdolphin]

Sorry to t/j, but wanted to say to mzdolphin, are you 100% positive the MM didn't go into the wife's email and delete it before she could read it, since you cc'd him on it? For all you know - she NEVER saw the email! Think about it....

 

It was her work email. And they had been living apart (in different states) for four years. I'm pretty sure she knows. He even talked about her sharing the email with her daughter (he step daughter). This went to her email address at the newspaper she writes for. Doubt he could hack or gain access to that.

[mzdolphin]

I was thinking about this, and wonder about what would happen if the situation were reversed and there was a woman who was dating a guy whom she thought was single because this is how he presented himself., but he was lying to her as her was actually married.

 

Would someone that knew the guy she was seeing was married have a moral obligation to tell her so she could make informed choices about her life? I would think they should...just my opinion though.

 

Good question. I was very angry with friends of a guy I was dating who knew he was married and said nothing to me about it. They were his co-workers. I was younger and the dating hadn't gone beyond a few dates and never became intimate. I never spoke to any of them again.

[mzdolphin]

I was ok with telling betrayed spouse the first time. When I didn't know what was going on. But after DDay and we rekindled the relationship? I've taken the stance that I told her once. She didn't respond and he went on to cheat even more. He is getting his own apartment in a city less than 2 hours away from where they live. I think she is just resigned to live in denial. It would be very easy to catch this guy. He sent me checks with his actual home address on it. He emailed me hotel reservations with his rewards card info.

 

I've given him luxury men's fragrances, skincare products I receive free because of the marketing work I do. He carries them in his gym bags, gives some to his son. This stuff is very expensive and some of it not even sold in the state they live in. And it's so beyond the Brut he wore for years.

 

It's over so I don't see the point in telling her.

[serial muse]

What leap? When you know the something that is wrong is that your spouse is having an affair, there is no leap. If what is wrong is that they are having problems at work, then what is wrong is they are having problems at work. If all you know is something is wrong and you don't know what - it is the responsibility of your spouse to tell you, and it is your responsibility to find out.

 

Always and never never work, right? My actual life vision was that clear.

 

What does that have to do with knowing your spouse is having an affair, or a gambling problem, or anything else? Unless they are an extremely good actor and liar, and unless you pretty much ignore them completely, how can you be married to someone and not know what's going on with them?

 

Are you kidding? Because you are being lied to. Because you know they are unhappy, and you ask repeatedly to be let in on it, and they are shutting you out. Because they TELL you that it is this that and the other issue that is responsible, that it isn't you, or "us" or anything, and you BELIEVE them because you married them and therefore you choose to trust them when they tell you a thing, and because you have a long history of being together and weathering life's troubles. You know something's wrong - but YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT.

 

That is the leap, MovinOn. Seriously? You really didn't understand what I was saying? It is a leap to ASSUME that when a person is unhappy and withdrawn, that it's because s/he is cheating. It is a LEAP. One could snoop, one could suspect, one could do all those things if one is so inclined. Or if there was concrete evidence of some kind. But supposing it's just a feeling of distance? Supposing it's nebulous unhappiness? Are you really going to suggest that people should always just assume that that unhappiness MUST be due to an affair?

 

I am really quite shocked that you don't understand this. It is not anyone's "responsibility" to know when they are being lied to, MovinOn. It would be awesome if we all had a Truthsayer in our back pockets, but the one who is responsible is the LIAR.

 

I don't know what else to say to you, if you can't understand this fundamental point.

[serial muse]

I might have it wrong but smo is having an affair with his friends wife, who he also says is abusive to the mow. It's been ongoing for quite a while.

 

Oh.

 

I understand it all now. Thanks for clarifying this point. It explains this too:

 

It works for BS's, OW, OM, anyone being lied to about anything. If you know the person who is lying to you well enough, you know they are lying. If you choose to bury your head in the sand, it doesn't mean you didn't know, it means you CHOSE to not know what you *did* know.

 

The smugness inherent in this kind of statement...just ugh.

 

Do me and the world a favor. Don't presume that YOUR experience, because I guess you're saying you knew that your wife was cheating and that she knows you are too, and that you both buried YOUR heads in the sand, can be extrapolated to ANYONE ELSE. Arrogant and smug. Your choices are yours, not mine or anyone else's.

Edited September 30, 2011 by serial muse

[SoMovinOn]

I hold your views also. I was a BS many times. I felt that if they were having EMA's then the marriage was over..the marriage was very troubled to begin with.

 

I want to live and there is little time for bitterness and hate.

 

Having been through so many things by this time, I knew I'd be ok, and not only ok, I'd be better off. Through everything I am the victor and not the victim.

 

The big question ... why do former BS's have A's? Mine was never intended, although knew his M was over, not because his marriage was always on the rocks, but because his marriage was a lie and a game also. The situation was way too weird.

 

Of course, you (general "you") never really know what you will do in a given situation until you're actually in it, but, I would say, other than my GF, I would not have gotten involved in an A. I don't like that it's an A with her, but... those were the choices... have an A, or miss her a second time.

[SoMovinOn]

People are arguing from their own experiences and from the idea that people who go to great lengths to lie and deceive do manage to have an effect, as does trusting someone. I don't see anyone here saying they are currently suspicious of their spouse and want to know how to find out for sure what is going on because their spouse insists nothing is. So your suggestion that they get advice from you seems like an attempt to dismiss those who disagree with your own perspective that the spouse should know and that they should be able to get truth even from a lying, deceiving spouse.

 

Having said that, I do find your stbxw a somewhat unusual woman. It is interesting that you got the truth from a spouse who you have described as a selfish pig, f*cked in the head and 100% responsible for the breakdown of your M.

 

 

My STBXW is definitely unusual. I am rather unusual. Our M was definitely unusual.

[SoMovinOn]

That is the leap, MovinOn. Seriously? You really didn't understand what I was saying? It is a leap to ASSUME that when a person is unhappy and withdrawn, that it's because s/he is cheating. It is a LEAP. One could snoop, one could suspect, one could do all those things if one is so inclined. Or if there was concrete evidence of some kind. But supposing it's just a feeling of distance? Supposing it's nebulous unhappiness? Are you really going to suggest that people should always just assume that that unhappiness MUST be due to an affair?

 

No. I never suggested one assume an affair, so I have no idea why you keep going back to it. I suggested if you know your spouse well enough, you will know something is wrong and it is incumbent up *you* to do what you need to find out what it is. Someone else telling you something isn't going to provide the proof you need. Your spouse can provide that proof, and you may get the truth from them by talking to them. If not, then you need to find the proof you need by whatever means necessary. In my case, I used tracking software on her PC to get all her logins and passwords. I was then able to print out emails and confront her with them. From that point, it was a matter of repeated discussions, and, me knowing when she was lying - by asking her for details (because liars have a hard time keeping details straight).

 

If her problem had been something else, a gambling problem, drinking, drugs, depression, an unidentifiable sadness over nothing specific... it would have either come out in talking to her, or I would have found the evidence I needed through some other means.

 

My main point here is that there is not some other person who could provide the proof one needs, no matter what the problem is.

[skywriter]

Oh my you all are making this so complicated and difficult. It is so much simpler. The responsibility of the ow/om is to not get involved with a married person in the first place. That is the responsible, human, compassionate, moral thing to do.

 

 

 

For myself and all the other, others, hindsight is twenty twenty.

[Spitfire6]

Exactly my point! They *do* know. If they sense something is wrong, if there is a gut feeling - they know! At that point, they have a responsibility, to themselves at the very least, to find out what is wrong, by whatever means necessary. If the choose to bury their head in the sand, it can only be because they *know* something is going on. They don't need concrete evidence and they don't need all the details... they just need to know something is wrong.

 

The signs are there. No one is that good, they always slip up somewhere.

 

Yes... the BS needs to confirm the A in order to make an informed decision. The BS should get that confirmation as soon as he/she knows something is wrong. Even if someone else tells them about the A, they will still need their own proof before they can make an intelligent, informed decision. The final confirmation should come from their spouse.

 

I've been a long-time lurker, but I had to register to respond to this. I'm actually a BS. We're dual-military, and my H had an affair during his deployment. How exactly was I supposed to know? His emails became a little shorter, but still filled with the "I love you, I miss you, I can't wait to be home with you" bits that they had always had. I asked if he was feeling okay, and he told me they had become very busy at work due to the elections. Having been deployed and understanding the long 12-14 hour shifts, I didn't push the issue. I took him at his word.

 

The only reason I found anything out was because SHE "friended" me on Facebook. Started making weird comments. That's when the whole story came out. Of course, he minimized her to me. And I emailed her. Because I wanted to know the truth. She wouldn't talk to me. I told her that I didn't hold any ill will towards her, that I was sorry we were caught up in this. She sought me out, but couldn't be woman enough to own up to the truth.

 

I apologize for probably t/j'ing. But that comment really inspired me to respond. I still wonder about it sometimes, when I get prank phone calls in the middle of the night, when her cell phone number shows up on my caller I.D. I just wish she would have told me the truth.

[SoMovinOn]

to those who think that one spouse should somehow always know if their spouse is cheating( or even considering it), and, if they do nothing then somehow they have no reason to be upset when their spouse cheats... again, i ask you to turn the situation around.

 

pretend it's a single person who meets someone who gives off every impression that they are single. They develop strong feelings for them and trust them. but it turns out, the person is married. Should the single person somehow instinctively know they are married?

 

I would say there is a vast difference in knowing your spouse, the person you live with and share your entire life with, as opposed to someone you have never met before in your life.

 

The crux of my point is to trust your gut. If your gut is telling you something is wrong, in all probability, something is wrong. My suggestion, which somehow is met with much resistance, is that you find out what's wrong. What is the other option? Do nothing? Pretend nothing is wrong? Wait until it explodes in your face?

 

I recommend the book "The Gift of Fear" by Gavin DeBecker, to everyone I know. In large part, the book is about trusting your gut instincts. One of the things he noticed with crime victims was they often say something along the lines of "I had no idea something was going to happen", but then, they will go on to describe gut feelings they had in the moments leading up to the event - they very much did have a feeling something was going to happen.

 

There are a lot of psychological and societal reasons why people ignore their gut feelings. In reality, they should be learning to trust them more.

[SoMovinOn]

I've been a long-time lurker, but I had to register to respond to this. I'm actually a BS. We're dual-military, and my H had an affair during his deployment. How exactly was I supposed to know? His emails became a little shorter, but still filled with the "I love you, I miss you, I can't wait to be home with you" bits that they had always had. I asked if he was feeling okay, and he told me they had become very busy at work due to the elections. Having been deployed and understanding the long 12-14 hour shifts, I didn't push the issue. I took him at his word.

 

The only reason I found anything out was because SHE "friended" me on Facebook. Started making weird comments. That's when the whole story came out. Of course, he minimized her to me. And I emailed her. Because I wanted to know the truth. She wouldn't talk to me. I told her that I didn't hold any ill will towards her, that I was sorry we were caught up in this. She sought me out, but couldn't be woman enough to own up to the truth.

 

I apologize for probably t/j'ing. But that comment really inspired me to respond. I still wonder about it sometimes, when I get prank phone calls in the middle of the night, when her cell phone number shows up on my caller I.D. I just wish she would have told me the truth.

 

Spit... sorry about your experience.

 

The crux of my point is that we easily get a gut feeling for what is going on with our spouse because we live with them every day. Certainly, if they are not living with us, such as was your case with H being on deployment, we have no way of gauging what is going on with them. It is a far different scenario from waking up with them in the morning and crawling into bed with them at night.

[MissBee]

i see your point, but something you don't seem to understand ( and I am not being critical of you, i am merely making an observation)is that you are unlike many spouses in that you don't seem to have had any trust in your spouse at all, right form the get go. Some of us love our spouses, and part of that love was trusting that they loved us and that cheating was not something they would ever consider. This is why the idea of them cheating is the last thing on our lists on reasons why they may be acting oddly. When my spouse cheated, yes, my "gut' told me something was wrong, but he was also facing a deployment where he would be traveling between FOBs in Afghanistan, he was having issues with his parents, he had just helped bury a friend who had been killed by a roadside bomb, money was tight for us, we were dealing some serious health issues with two of our kids, etc., etc., etc.- I thought that his behavior was due to any one of those things. By the time I realized he was involved with someone else, it was too late for me to really be able to stop it.

 

I would hazard a guess that many other people who have had their spouses cheat on them may have made similar assumptions- they may have been acting some what differently, but due to other factors, one doesn't see cheating as the probable cause. And rather than assuming that a betrayed spouse doesn't notice the cheating because they don't care, I would say that many times they don't see it because they DO love their spouse and would never consider cheating on them and they think their spouse feels the same way.

 

Your posts have me thinking about perception and what one thinks is happening in their relationship and with their SO versus what's really going on.

 

I am realizing that it is not enough to think....as you've expressed and others have, that thinking you have a good marriage, thinking your spouse is faithful, thinking something is X when in fact it is Y is proving there to be some dissonance between one's perception and then the lived reality.

 

No one is in anyone else's head space and since we're all individuals, we both can watch the same movie, be in the same relationship and still have a different experience....which is why that openness and communication and just some type of space in which you're checking in with the other to find out what is REALLY going on and if both your perceptions are insync is so important. I think too many times, even in dating, people assume something like: well they're taking me out, doting on me, and since if I did that it would mean I love them, them doing so must mean that too...when this other person could be thinking, after all this, hope I get some sex OR she's nice, she's cool, she's fun for now, I'd never marry her though. So many times it seems like both are having what seems to be the "same" experience...but in reality they're both acting out their own desires and perceptions and it only appears that they are in sync. I've done that whole thing of judging a relationship scenario based on what I would do and interpreting actions based on my own desires and not what this person actually meant. People of course can lie about what is going on but I think most times people do not lie...it just follows a pattern of assuming and not ever verifying and then when both arrive at a different conclusion or finally discuss and realize their take of the relationship wasn't the same as the other's, it's shocking!

 

So I think a frequent check-in with your partner from time to time is necessary so as not to find yourself "thinking" you're in the same relationship, heading the same way, both feeling really good....when maybe you're the only one. I think it's a conscientious process though and something that requires forethought and actually communicating...NOT talking; as talking is different from communicating and really understanding each other. I think most people are too lazy for the latter or simply don't know how, so do the former, even though it is not enough and then feel confused that after all those "epic talks", they still don't understand what's going on.

Edited October 1, 2011 by MissBee

[bentnotbroken]

i see your point, but something you don't seem to understand ( and I am not being critical of you, i am merely making an observation)is that you are unlike many spouses in that you don't seem to have had any trust in your spouse at all, right form the get go. Some of us love our spouses, and part of that love was trusting that they loved us and that cheating was not something they would ever consider. This is why the idea of them cheating is the last thing on our lists on reasons why they may be acting oddly. When my spouse cheated, yes, my "gut' told me something was wrong, but he was also facing a deployment where he would be traveling between FOBs in Afghanistan, he was having issues with his parents, he had just helped bury a friend who had been killed by a roadside bomb, money was tight for us, we were dealing some serious health issues with two of our kids, etc., etc., etc.- I thought that his behavior was due to any one of those things. By the time I realized he was involved with someone else, it was too late for me to really be able to stop it.

 

I would hazard a guess that many other people who have had their spouses cheat on them may have made similar assumptions- they may have been acting some what differently, but due to other factors, one doesn't see cheating as the probable cause. And rather than assuming that a betrayed spouse doesn't notice the cheating because they don't care, I would say that many times they don't see it because they DO love their spouse and would never consider cheating on them and they think their spouse feels the same way.

 

 

Exactly. As in my case. Cheating was something we discussed regularly. It was something that had been discussed before the marriage and on every anniversary after it. We had a written contract about how to handle feelings that might develop toward another person. I felt that because we had these discussions, that he knew how I felt about cheating(and I thought I knew how he felt)cheating would not be an issue we would have to deal with.

 

I knew things weren't right between us during the last affair. I knew that stress from his job, death of my parent, kid drama, financial stress and building a house were all happening at the same time. When I asked what was going on, I was given one of these reasons. I had my own issues with depression and thoughts of suicide. So yeah, we had life happening to us, but I had never NOT trusted him to be faithful. When the last affair came to light, then I found out about the others that happened as he traveled.

 

If I could predict he would cheat from his behavior, I wouldn't have been in that position. If I had a crystal ball, I could have seen him pull his willie out and insert it. I could have seen the hiding of assets and the lies that were being told to me. But since it was in the shop at the time.....too bad for me and my kids.

[seren]

i see your point, but something you don't seem to understand ( and I am not being critical of you, i am merely making an observation)is that you are unlike many spouses in that you don't seem to have had any trust in your spouse at all, right form the get go. Some of us love our spouses, and part of that love was trusting that they loved us and that cheating was not something they would ever consider. This is why the idea of them cheating is the last thing on our lists on reasons why they may be acting oddly. When my spouse cheated, yes, my "gut' told me something was wrong, but he was also facing a deployment where he would be traveling between FOBs in Afghanistan, he was having issues with his parents, he had just helped bury a friend who had been killed by a roadside bomb, money was tight for us, we were dealing some serious health issues with two of our kids, etc., etc., etc.- I thought that his behavior was due to any one of those things. By the time I realized he was involved with someone else, it was too late for me to really be able to stop it.

 

I would hazard a guess that many other people who have had their spouses cheat on them may have made similar assumptions- they may have been acting some what differently, but due to other factors, one doesn't see cheating as the probable cause. And rather than assuming that a betrayed spouse doesn't notice the cheating because they don't care, I would say that many times they don't see it because they DO love their spouse and would never consider cheating on them and they think their spouse feels the same way.

 

 

I agree wholeheartedly with this FS, I and H had 23 years together when he had an A. I would say and so would he, that I knew him better than anyone, we talked, loved, laughed, argued much the same as any other couple who have been together so long. Of course I sensed something was not right, but as FS said, when you ask and are toldit's nothing, it's work, it's stress, especially from deployed military and when you pointedly ask if there is anyone else and are repeatedly told no and their words reassure you that there is no one else, you believe them. You do that because you trust them with all that you have and you love them with all that you have and when you are told they reciprocate, the very last thing you think of doing is turning yourself into Jane Bond. I wouldn't have known where to start and if I had resorted to that, then I would have been far more aggressive in pursuing an A as the reason for the odd behaviour.

 

Like FS's husband, mine had a whole raft of post Afghanistan deployment issues, this wasn't a man who left for work in the morning and expected to com home at night, this was a person who had seen friends blown apart and so of course you cut them slack, you just wait for them to come back to earth and you provide a home and love and try to be their scaffolding while they heal. When you find out that there has been an A, then you certainly feel blindsided and, on relfection you smack yourself upside the head and say, of course how could I have missed the signs. But until you get the feeling it is an A, you just assume they are dealing with their demons.

 

The OW had told H that she was going to tell me, he was petrified she would and that helped to prolong the A. This from them both, the OW and I spoke after D Day and to be fair to her, she answered all I asked and I to her. I felt sorry for her, she saw the A as one thing when it was in fact something else entirely. It was only afterwards when she started to get angry at me that I disliked her. I wish she had told me, but I wish H had told me more.

 

I think it is the WS place to inform the BS, I don't understand those OW/OM who tell after D Day, it seems more like revenge than anything, for those that tell during the A, then I would suspect that forcing the WS hand is the motive, rather than 'she deserves to know'.

I am grateful that the OW was honest with me, she could have spun me a whole lot of lies, but she didn't.

 

BS don't bury their heads in the sand and go around tra la la'ing when their marriages are going through tough patches, we try and try to ask and are often gaslighted to the n'th degree. H has recently left the military, he is going through a man in cave stage, it is his way, I know and understand this, from what has been written it would suggest I get the keyloggers (on a man who cannot switch the computer on) installed, check his phone and buy a raincoat and fedora and start following him around.

[SoMovinOn]

i see your point, but something you don't seem to understand ( and I am not being critical of you, i am merely making an observation)is that you are unlike many spouses in that you don't seem to have had any trust in your spouse at all, right form the get go.

 

I have to admit, I cannot discount that as a factor. I would say though, even if that were not the case, I hate mysteries. If I sense something is wrong, I am going to do everything I can to find out what it is. Sometimes, that is very hard to do and will take some considerable time. I'm not saying it's easy or it will happen quickly. ... let me quote some more, as it supports where I am going ...

 

 

When my spouse cheated, yes, my "gut' told me something was wrong, but he was also facing a deployment where he would be traveling between FOBs in Afghanistan, he was having issues with his parents, he had just helped bury a friend who had been killed by a roadside bomb, money was tight for us, we were dealing some serious health issues with two of our kids, etc., etc., etc.- I thought that his behavior was due to any one of those things.

 

That's an extremely tough situation. When there are multiple issues, one can easily mask another. When you add the implied trust you mentioned, an affair not even being on your RADAR, that's another potential blind spot. Additionally, another factor not yet mentioned, is sometimes our *spouse* has no idea what is bothering them. It could be something environmental (work, school, finances...) that is bothering them on some subconscious level without them yet realizing it, or, it could be something medical or depression from which they are suffering without knowing it themselves.

 

My original point was never intended to discount those factors, but only to say, *you* know your spouse better than anyone, you spend more time with them, if you love them (and I will assume you do), you put them ahead of you, their needs ahead of yours, so it is only fitting to say you are the one most responsible (because it is in your own interest as well), to sit down with them and start trying to figure out what the problem is. Maybe they don't know, maybe they will lie to you, but, that's the place you start. You pay attention to *every* detail, look for any red flags...

 

Right there, lets sidetrack back to an affair not being on your RADAR... an investigator who starts with a conclusion, or discounts some conclusion prior to looking at the evidence available, is bound to fail. Yes, you *will* miss an affair if you dismiss it before looking at the available information. You have to simply look at what is there to see, and see it for what it is.

 

Maybe you still won't be able to find it. Maybe the two of you will conclude something else needs to be done to identify (and eventually fix) the problem (such as professional help of some type). Maybe they feel lousy for an unspecified reason, and it goes away as mysteriously as it came up.

 

Lots of variables, lots of possibilities, and the option you will fail to figure it out is always there. You're not psychic. If they won't open up, and there is no evidence you can find to point to any particular problem (or, as mentioned above, if the problem is masked by one or more other problems)... it's a fail.

... but you have to try, right? If you don't, who will?

 

 

By the time I realized he was involved with someone else, it was too late for me to really be able to stop it.

 

Perhaps this will confuse some people, as I've made it clear my position is the spouse is in the best position to know, the spouse has a responsibility to know... but ... (here goes) ... even if you know, there probably isn't a damn thing you can do to change it.

 

We can see that in the stories here - spouses who continue to cheat after D-day, after multiple D-Days. Or, my own situation, where I knew everything from the very beginning, let her know I knew, and she still kept going down her path of self destruction. Even after D-Day, when I clearly spelled out anything she needed to do to turn things around, she managed to almost always do the exact opposite. You would think she *wanted* to get rid of me and was deliberately working towards that goal ... but she didn't, and even more so now, she doesn't.

 

Bottom line is... knowing the problem is the first, most important step in fixing it, but, in many cases, there is nothing you can do to change it or fix it. Sometimes, some people... it just needs to explode, they need to crash and burn, hit rock bottom, before they can make that turn to start heading back up.

[SoMovinOn]

... from what has been written it would suggest I get the keyloggers (on a man who cannot switch the computer on) installed, check his phone and buy a raincoat and fedora and start following him around.

 

If knowing the truth matters to you, and you can't get it from him initially, that is exactly what I would do, and anything else necessary.

 

(For the record, it *is* what I did, minus the trench coat and fedora)

[Lostinlife4now]

Movin, you nailed it!! EXACTLY.

 

Where's the beef, BS? Where are YOU in your own M? Wherever you are, it's not my job to clean up your mess. And it's none of my business anyway. Your marriage is not my responsibility or anyone else's - IT'S YOURS. That's what you signed up for when you took those vows.

 

Get off the couch and do your own damn housekeeping already!!

 

 

So true Movin!!! Where was the BS in her OWN marriage? When she is sleeping in different bedrooms and wants nothing sexually to do with him? Yes she is a cold fish and frigid...I know that for a fact...And she has a woman come in and clean for her...so the housekeeping quote really struck me as funny.........

[mzdolphin]

to those who think that one spouse should somehow always know if their spouse is cheating( or even considering it), and, if they do nothing then somehow they have no reason to be upset when their spouse cheats... again, i ask you to turn the situation around.

........It may surprise certain posters that many of us didn't have any experience with infidelity before our spouse cheated. We didn't know what the "signs" were, and , even if we did see them, we loved and trusted our spouse and thought they loved us too, so the idea of them cheating wasn't even a consideration. At best, that's trusting, at worst, it's naivety.

:

 

As a former BS, I can tell you I didn't have a clue and I consider myself pretty smart. I did find out. I don't assume the W knows. But I'm talking about in my case, post DDay, after the cheater has been found out and he continues to cheat, how can the W not know now? How can she not see the signs now?

[mzdolphin]

I would say there is a vast difference in knowing your spouse, the person you live with and share your entire life with, as opposed to someone you have never met before in your life.

 

The crux of my point is to trust your gut. If your gut is telling you something is wrong, in all probability, something is wrong. My suggestion, which somehow is met with much resistance, is that you find out what's wrong. What is the other option? Do nothing? Pretend nothing is wrong? Wait until it explodes in your face?

 

 

I agree. After I caught my ex husband cheating, I was on high alert. We did the counseling thing, he even went to rehab for sex addiction. But after that I felt I had the right do check computer, etc. Because at that point his behavior had been proven risky for me and our family. To not investigate would have been negligent on my part.

 

When I think about how carefree the exMM I was with stayed in touch with me, arranged four-day time together, I thought, how does his wife allow this? How can she just take his word?

[Yianks]

You know, I find it really interesting that most everyone who thinks the BS should already know are those that are currently in an affair, or married a known cheater.

 

Just seems to me that it's a way of justifying one's actions.

 

The BS is usually the last to know about the A. He/she doesn't want to believe that his/her world will change dramatically within few minutes.