4 dates too late

[bluenightowl]

Do people find people are hooking up faster these days. You hear of the 3 or 4 date rule where after 3-4 dates (sometimes sooner) people start to have sex.

 

Do you feel pressure to move quicker in order to avoid losing him/her to someone else who then commit after the dating get sexual. In the age online dating this seems to be more common than ever.

[Mme. Chaucer]

There are plenty of people on these fora (most of them happen to be guys) who say stuff like, "if she doesn't put out by the 3rd date, I'm getting somebody who will."

 

I say - bye, then!

 

Are you looking for a real, relationship with a person with whom you're compatible?

 

If you are, then such a person will have similar views to the ones you have about when to have sex. Or, they will be willing and fine with accommodating to your comfort level, if you're slower to get sexual than they tend to be.

 

If they do NOT have similar views, or are NOT willing to accommodate, then …

 

NEXT!

 

Do NOT change your own standards about when it is right for YOU to have sex because of some kind of pressure from the other person - like the threat that they'll go get somebody else.

 

If you're that easily replaced for them, I don't think much potential was there anyway.

[carhill]

I've never felt such 'pressure'. If the lady and I aren't on the same page, then we aren't. Neither of us is 'wrong' nor 'right'.

 

If I don't 'feel' progression of intimacy and mutual care and interest, I discontinue. I would expect most any woman in my age group to act similarly. Young people may necessarily be different in that regard. I did get used for free male attention and free food enough as a young man to appreciate that perspective.

[carhill]

Whats the "free food" thing?

 

My perspective was based on the number and content of the dates and what happened subsequently, most specifically described as being 'inserted' into a what some LS'ers call 'helper monkey' male group status. Using the most generous description, they 'let' me date them while they were 'ambivalent', enjoying my generosity, then made their decision within themselves but didn't communicate it, rather following the 'maybe baby, you and me' path some young LS males have shared. This is how orbiters are inserted. Today, such behavior is perfectly clear but, back then, far more nebulous to me. I can say I never have treated a woman that way, meaning 'fed' her fog and kept her engaged and 'paying' for me. So, there's the food for free perspective, carhill version.

[carhill]

My datapoints include about 20 years of dating, three LTR's and one ten year marriage.

 

To boil it down, 'they (the 'free food' potentials) let me pay for them', 'they let me care for them', 'they let me love them', describing various stages of this process. It's a personality type. I came to understand this better in marriage counseling and from reading LS. They're not evil, horrible people. They just take what people give and feel it's healthy for them. That's about it. I don't see any of them with frowns on their faces. They're happy

 

Myself, I own my part in that dynamic and offer it here as one perspective. Could I have done things differently? Sure. That's the life lesson.

[Cypress25]

Do people find people are hooking up faster these days. You hear of the 3 or 4 date rule where after 3-4 dates (sometimes sooner) people start to have sex.

 

In reality, this is not common at all. Keep in mind, the posters on LS are not representative of the general population. Most people don't have sex by the 4th date, even with online dating.

 

Besides, it's not a race. If a woman is multi-dating, she'll choose the guy she likes the best, not the guy who has sex with her first. Having sex with a woman is not like staking a claim on your territory. You won't win by having sex with her before another guy has sex with her.

 

If she doesn't put out out by date 2, she's using you for free male attention or for food.

 

That's funny, because the vast majority of long-term relationships did not start with 2nd date sex. Most women wait a lot longer than that, even though they genuinely like the guy. It's the whole "emotional connection" thing. Women like to establish that before having sex, and you can't do that in 2 dates. And you know, some people would rather have sex with someone they know and trust, as opposed to someone they just met who might disappear after the 2nd date.

 

To boil it down, 'they (the 'free food' potentials) let me pay for them', 'they let me care for them', 'they let me love them', describing various stages of this process. It's a personality type.

 

Obviously, they enjoyed your company. As anyone who has ever been on a bad date can tell you, a free meal isn't worth it to sit through dinner with a guy you don't like. Truly, women are not that desperate for free food. And they're not using you for attention either. If you don't like a guy, you don't want his attention.

 

The problem is, some men expect an immediate return on investment. A guy buys a girl dinner, so now she owes him sex. If he buys her dinner and he doesn't get sex in return, he assumes she's using him for free food. Which is ridiculous, of course. Normal people go out on dates to get to know each other. They don't see the date as an exchange of favors ("I buy you dinner, you give me sex"). If that's your approach to dating, then you have serious emotional problems.

[Nexus One]

Besides, it's not a race. If a woman is multi-dating, she'll choose the guy she likes the best, not the guy who has sex with her first. Having sex with a woman is not like staking a claim on your territory. You won't win by having sex with her before another guy has sex with her.

 

A woman shouldn't be sleeping with multiple of her dates to begin with if they're dating her for a relationship. She should be transparent about that so that guys can op-out of dating her.

[oaks]

Do people find people are hooking up faster these days. You hear of the 3 or 4 date rule where after 3-4 dates (sometimes sooner) people start to have sex.

 

The New York Post ran an article about Cheap dates a few days ago that suggests that people are having sex sooner and that the 'price' of sex (in dating terms) is falling. (feed those italicised phrases into your favourite search engine to find the article)

[Cypress25]

A woman shouldn't be sleeping with multiple of her dates to begin with if they're dating her for a relationship. She should be transparent about that so that guys can op-out of dating her.

 

Yes, we all know how you feel about that. Unfortunately, some people don't abide by your rules and they don't behave the way you think they should, so deal with it. And please stop derailing threads with your opinion on multi-dating. Stay on topic, please.

[ThsAmericanLife]

In reality, this is not common at all. Keep in mind, the posters on LS are not representative of the general population. Most people don't have sex by the 4th date, even with online dating.

 

Besides, it's not a race. If a woman is multi-dating, she'll choose the guy she likes the best, not the guy who has sex with her first. Having sex with a woman is not like staking a claim on your territory. You won't win by having sex with her before another guy has sex with her.

 

 

 

That's funny, because the vast majority of long-term relationships did not start with 2nd date sex. Most women wait a lot longer than that, even though they genuinely like the guy. It's the whole "emotional connection" thing. Women like to establish that before having sex, and you can't do that in 2 dates. And you know, some people would rather have sex with someone they know and trust, as opposed to someone they just met who might disappear after the 2nd date.

 

 

 

Obviously, they enjoyed your company. As anyone who has ever been on a bad date can tell you, a free meal isn't worth it to sit through dinner with a guy you don't like. Truly, women are not that desperate for free food. And they're not using you for attention either. If you don't like a guy, you don't want his attention.

 

The problem is, some men expect an immediate return on investment. A guy buys a girl dinner, so now she owes him sex. If he buys her dinner and he doesn't get sex in return, he assumes she's using him for free food. Which is ridiculous, of course. Normal people go out on dates to get to know each other. They don't see the date as an exchange of favors ("I buy you dinner, you give me sex"). If that's your approach to dating, then you have serious emotional problems.

 

Yes.. a stupid problem easily solved by asking women to pay half or only dating women who pay their fair share.

 

Really is tough to play 'victim' in this day and age... Seems like a lame excuse.

[Nexus One]

Yes, we all know how you feel about that. Unfortunately, some people don't abide by your rules and they don't behave the way you think they should, so deal with it. And please stop derailing threads with your opinion on multi-dating. Stay on topic, please.

 

I can deal with it and it's not up to me to dictate someone's sex life, but I'd like to be told before I get involved with such women. And I think other guys should have the same right to opt-out.

 

What women like you are advocating is to lie about it, to keep it secret, so that guys get tricked into making a mistake by dating a woman who's already involved with other men.

 

Plenty of guys do the same though, I don't think it's a female thing or anything.

 

And for the record. Ethics isn't about opinion. Ethics is a universal concept that deals with the question of suffering. You promote an attitude that hurts and deceives people. Yet you try to downplay it by calling it "my opinion". Play that game.

[ThsAmericanLife]

A woman shouldn't be sleeping with multiple of her dates to begin with if they're dating her for a relationship. She should be transparent about that so that guys can op-out of dating her.

 

Nexus, I think you'd get more sympathy here if you dropped the 'women' phrase here.

 

As most know, I happen to agree with you. I believe that both men and women who are looking for a relationship don't multi-date. As long as I continue to post here, I'll say that those who sleep with multiple people simultaneously are a bad risk... and probably can't be trusted in a relationship lasting more than a few years (like, THAT is considered long term these days.. what a f*cking joke). I'm betting that is the record for alot of these multi-daters.

 

However, I'm starting to wonder if this is just a one-sided deal with you or if you feel it is strictly the woman's job to set the pace. Mostly I hear you whining about women and their 'obligations'. Please tell us what you've done the past year or so to hold up your end of the deal...

[Nexus One]

Nexus, I think you'd get more sympathy here if you dropped the 'women' phrase here.

 

I did state that guys do the same, I generally see this as an issue that crosses genders.

 

Cypress says I'm derailing threads, but many of the mentioned problems stem from the issue I hammer on.

[ThsAmericanLife]

I did state that guys do the same, I generally see this as an issue that crosses genders.

 

Cypress says I'm derailing threads, but many of the mentioned problems stem from the issue I hammer on.

 

Thank you.

 

I REALLY agree with you.

 

I sincerely wish more people were self-aware and responsible enough to be upfront in the beginning...

[Nexus One]

However, I'm starting to wonder if this is just a one-sided deal with you or if you feel it is strictly the woman's job to set the pace. Mostly I hear you whining about women and their 'obligations'.

 

This isn't one sided. Whenever this thing comes up I always say that both genders do it. But as I'm a guy, I tend to speak about it from the perspective of my gender. I generally try write posts as gender neutral as possible, but every now and then I get lazy and just type it out as straight forward from my point of view as possible.

 

Please tell us what you've done the past year or so to hold up your end of the deal...

 

One of such things I've explained here: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?p=3644064

 

This isn't about me being better than others, I don't even care about that. This is about people like Cypress promoting behavior that is hurtful to others and lie about it.

 

She said she never did it herself, but she justifies it and tries to downplay the ethics of it and that's what gets me riled up about people like her.

 

Every person that has justified it on this forum so far has also downplayed tried to downplay the ethics of it and tried to paint the ethics of it as an opinion. That's so f*cking low. You know why I think they do that? Because they don't want to face THAT part of the discussion, so they have to suppress it. They know it's not right, that's why they've all said that it should be kept silent, so that nobody knows about it, but they obscure the lying by omission by saying "it's nobody's business".

[Cypress25]

What women like you are advocating is to lie about it, to keep it secret, so that guys get tricked into making a mistake by dating a woman who's already involved with other men.

 

Please drop the phrase "women like you." It's insulting. And no, I don't advocate lying or tricking people. I don't do either of those things because they go against my values. I advocate letting other people live their lives as they see fit. I don't tell people what to do.

 

And for the record. Ethics isn't about opinion. Ethics is a universal concept that deals with the question of suffering. You promote an attitude that hurts and deceives people. Yet you try to downplay it by calling it "my opinion". Play that game.

 

Ethics are extremely subjective. Everyone has their own opinion about what constitutes ethical/unethical behavior. Some people think premarital sex is unethical. Some people think drinking alcohol is unethical. Some people think eating meat is unethical. Whether you like it or not, YOUR OPINION is not a universal standard. Get over it.

 

Your problem is you want dating to be a guarantee. You want women to guarantee you their undivided attention, so you can be guaranteed that you have no competition for the object of your desire and you can be guaranteed that she won't choose someone else over you. Well, guess what. There are no guarantees. Not for anyone.

 

You want dating to be a risk-free experience. You don't want to run the risk of getting hurt or deceived or misled, so you expect women to divulge every detail of their personal lives as soon as they meet you. Then there's no risk for you because you know everything. Well, dating is risky. It is for everyone. Yes, you might get hurt. You might find out that the girl you like isn't who you thought she was. Everyone who dates is taking the same risks, because you can't demand complete transparency from someone you barely know. That's part of what makes dating exciting: the mystery. That's why you get to know people gradually over time, instead of saying on the first date, "Tell me everything about you right now, so I can immediately opt out if I hear something I don't like."

 

Can we please get back to the OP's question? Start another thread, Nexus, if you want to discuss this. Don't drag it into every other thread.

[Cypress25]

Could be connected to women in their early 20's having orbiters to pay for the free food and then they're going to go on a diet later on, to lose the extra weight.

 

LOL, yeah that must be it! The sad truth is, many women start dieting when they hit puberty. And some of them never stop.

[Nexus One]

Please drop the phrase "women like you." It's insulting.

 

Well you DO fall into the category of people who justify it. So how else am I supposed to refer that group of people? I'm not going to talk about such people as if I'm talking about unicorns and rainbows.

 

And no, I don't advocate lying or tricking people. I don't do either of those things because they go against my values. I advocate letting other people live their lives as they see fit. I don't tell people what to do.

 

You told me in another thread that I should keep dating women who are already involved with another man if I found out they were doing that, because otherwise I was controlling according to you. That's what you said. According to you:

 

a) It wasn't my business if she's already sleeping with other men while I'm dating her for a relationship. So I did not have the right to get informed about it and opt-out according to you.

 

b) If I did find out, then according to you I should keep dating her, otherwise I'm controlling. Even though I'm not telling her to stop being involved with other men, but I'm only pulling out of dating with her, because I don't want to date a woman who's already involved with another man.

 

So actually you're the one who's telling me what to do. I just want to get informed so that I can make my own decision on whether I want to proceed or not, but according to you I'm not supposed to know that. I.e. it should be kept silent.

 

Ethics are extremely subjective. Everyone has their own opinion about what constitutes ethical/unethical behavior.

 

You know damn well I'm not talking about personal morals or personal ethics here.

 

Some people think premarital sex is unethical. Some people think drinking alcohol is unethical. Some people think eating meat is unethical. Whether you like it or not, YOUR OPINION is not a universal standard. Get over it.

 

When you say it's my opinion, then you act as if I'm talking about personal morals or personal ethics, which I'm not.

 

It's not my opinion when hurt flows from those actions while it's done for pleasure. If suffering flows from the attitude you justify while it is done for personal pleasure, and that's what sex is, then it is ethically unjustifiable, yet you justify it anyway. That's why there's friction between me and people on the forum who justify it.

 

I'm not Mr Moral. I have no problem with even the worst kind of sh*t people pull, as long as they're not hurting others with it. It's so simple and so basic.

 

Your problem is you want dating to be a guarantee. You want women to guarantee you their undivided attention, so you can be guaranteed that you have no competition for the object of your desire and you can be guaranteed that she won't choose someone else over you. Well, guess what. There are no guarantees. Not for anyone.

 

No, I just don't want to date a woman who is already involved with another man. I couldn't care less about guarantee or competition. I don't even WANT a guarantee, that would be crazy. When dating, compatibility should be established first.

 

You want dating to be a risk-free experience. You don't want to run the risk of getting hurt or deceived or misled, so you expect women to divulge every detail of their personal lives as soon as they meet you.

 

Oh so I can't ask her if she's single and not involved with other men before I ask her out, is that what you're saying? That's ridiculous, that prevents SO MANY problems. By your logic I have to dive in head first without knowing jack sh*t. You're not hearing me. I do not want to date a woman who's already involved with another man.

 

Then there's no risk for you because you know everything. Well, dating is risky. It is for everyone. Yes, you might get hurt. You might find out that the girl you like isn't who you thought she was. Everyone who dates is taking the same risks, because you can't demand complete transparency from someone you barely know. That's part of what makes dating exciting: the mystery. That's why you get to know people gradually over time, instead of saying on the first date, "Tell me everything about you right now, so I can immediately opt out if I hear something I don't like."

 

You have me so wrong. I can't even believe the dissonance between you and I. It's mind blowing. It really is Cypress. Every time I get into a discussion with people that justify it they so misjudge where I'm coming from. I don't know if they do that on purpose or if there's some MAJOR miscommunication between me and those people. However what I'm saying is not that hard to understand.

 

Can we please get back to the OP's question? Start another thread, Nexus, if you want to discuss this. Don't drag it into every other thread.

 

Fine, it's never my intention to derail a thread, but lot's of problems in threads on Loveshack stem from the issue I press on.

 

I already know I can't convince you, yet some things you say just make me want to react to you anyway. I think you just push my buttons by talking about it so casually every time without even seemingly realizing the implications of what you're saying. It seems to be a quality that is inherent in everyone I've discussed the issue with so far. And if I get the sense that there's malignancy behind that, then that pushes my buttons.

Edited October 1, 2011 by Nexus One

[Cypress25]

The only way to be certain that she is interested is to see if she's willing to have sex with you.

 

There are other ways to show interest besides having sex. I always wait a long time before having sex with a new boyfriend (yes, we must be in a committed relationship first), but these guys never doubted my feelings for them. I made it obvious. I'm an affectionate person by nature, so when I'm dating someone, there's plenty of kissing and physical intimacy, even before we have sex. (Not on the first date, of course).

 

If you think the only way to be certain of a woman's feelings is to see if she'll have sex with you, then you don't know how to read body language or facial expressions. And you don't know how to interpret her words and actions. Basically, you have no capacity for understanding human behavior whatsoever.

 

Besides, having sex with someone shouldn't be a test of their feelings. Just because a woman is interested in a man doesn't mean she'll jump into bed with him right away.

 

I think I speak for nearly every man when I say that we've all been in situations where women pretended to like us only to use us for attention, free meals or some other purpose.

 

This has already been addressed. It's ridiculous. If a woman didn't like you, she wouldn't want your attention and she wouldn't be willing to sit through a meal with you. Some men think women are using them for free meals or attention because they feel entitled to sex right away, before they've put in any time or effort. But the truth is, those women weren't using them. They were trying to establish trust and some sort of emotional bond before having sex. And the men lost patience because they expect sex in exchange for a few dates.

[fortyninethousand322]

This has already been addressed. It's ridiculous. If a woman didn't like you, she wouldn't want your attention and she wouldn't be willing to sit through a meal with you. Some men think women are using them for free meals or attention because they feel entitled to sex right away, before they've put in any time or effort. But the truth is, those women weren't using them. They were trying to establish trust and some sort of emotional bond before having sex. And the men lost patience because they expect sex in exchange for a few dates.

 

Eh...I don't know. Depending on the age of the girl in question I've definitely seen it happen before. Some women like getting male attention, and will sit through a meal (or a baseball game or whatever) with a guy they like enough but not enough to date. Granted the guys who let themselves be used like that have only themselves to blame for not seeing it early enough but still. People can be pretty manipulative sometimes.

[Cypress25]

Well you DO fall into the category of people who justify it. So how else am I supposed to refer that group of people?

 

Maybe you should just stop categorizing people.

 

You told me in another thread that I should keep dating women who are already involved with another man if I found out they were doing that, because otherwise I was controlling according to you.

 

I never said you should keep dating them if you don't want to. I said you should stop demanding certain behavior from them. That's the controlling part. You can do whatever you want. You can't tell other people what to do.

 

According to you:

 

a) It wasn't my business if she's already sleeping with other men while I'm dating her for a relationship. So I did not have the right to get informed about it and opt-out according to you.

 

You can ask. But she can also answer by saying "None of your business."

 

b) If I did find out, then according to you I should keep dating her, otherwise I'm controlling. Even though I'm not telling her to stop being involved with other men, but I'm only pulling out of dating with her, because I don't want to date a woman who's already involved with another man.

 

I never said you should continue dating her. You can stop dating her whenever you want. That is your right. What you don't have the right to do is tell her who she is and is not allowed to date. Again, that's the controlling part. You're trying to tell women what they should do and how they should behave. You can't do that, but you can walk away whenever you want.

 

I just want to get informed so that I can make my own decision on whether I want to proceed or not, but according to you I'm not supposed to know that. I.e. it should be kept silent.

 

You don't have the right to information just because you demand it. What if you wanted to "get informed" about my address and social security number? Does that mean I have to share that information with you? No, of course not. It's private. If you want to know if a woman is dating other people, you can ask her, but she doesn't have to tell you. Unless you two are at the point where you're considering an exclusive relationship. Otherwise, you're just a single guy prying into the personal life of a single girl.

 

It's not my opinion when hurt flows from those actions while it's done for pleasure.

 

People who multi-date probably don't think they're hurting other people.

 

Oh so I can't ask her if she's single and not involved with other men before I ask her out, is that what you're saying?

 

Of course you can ask her. But that's no guarantee either. You know, a lot of people consider themselves single as long as they're not in a committed relationship. So if you ask a girl who's casually dating another guy or two, she might still describe herself as single. And to her, that's not a lie.

 

It seems to be a quality that is inherent in everyone I've discussed the issue with so far.

 

Then perhaps you're the problem.

[Hot Chick]

Any man who has a 'rule' in his head about a woman needing to have sex with him within 2,3, or X amount of dates is not looking for a relationship and not looking for a quality woman.

Having sex should not be a goal of a date.

[Nexus One]

Maybe you should just stop categorizing people.

 

Ok, forget categories then. You justify it, just like some other people. (f*cking silly game you're playing here)

 

I said you should stop demanding certain behavior from them. That's the controlling part. You can do whatever you want. You can't tell other people what to do.

 

I have already said more than 10 times, I don't demand anything. I JUST LEAVE once I find out. The only thing I'll say is: "Ok, I'll leave it at this then, I wish you well." And I'm gone. That's it, and you know that, because I've already told you that at least 10 times, yet you keep ignoring that, because it's convenient for you to do so, that way you can downplay my character.

 

You can ask. But she can also answer by saying "None of your business."

 

And that would be enough too. In that case I couldn't get the appropriate information, so I wouldn't be able to make an informed decision. So that would be the end of it. I would see that as a red flag.

 

I never said you should continue dating her. You can stop dating her whenever you want. That is your right.

 

You said it was controlling if I stopped dating a woman of who I found out she was involved with another man.

 

What you don't have the right to do is tell her who she is and is not allowed to date. Again, that's the controlling part. You're trying to tell women what they should do and how they should behave. You can't do that, but you can walk away whenever you want.

 

How many times do I have to keep telling this sh*t? I'm not asking anyone to change their behavior. I JUST LEAVE when I find out. I do not appreciate it when a woman tricks me into dating her, only to then find out she's already involved with another man.

 

I'm not going to tell her to stop f*cking that guy, I JUST LEAVE. What she does with him is her own business.

 

You don't have the right to information just because you demand it. What if you wanted to "get informed" about my address and social security number? Does that mean I have to share that information with you? No, of course not. It's private. If you want to know if a woman is dating other people, you can ask her, but she doesn't have to tell you. Unless you two are at the point where you're considering an exclusive relationship. Otherwise, you're just a single guy prying into the personal life of a single girl.

 

Read that bold part you wrote yourself. When two people are dating each other to get into a committed exclusive relationship, then they need to disclose to each other that they're single and not involved with anyone else in order to proceed. You can't keep that a secret.

 

I just ask immediately, I'm not going to beat around the bush. There's no need to date her for 2 months only to find out she's already involved with another man. She could have said that earlier, then I would have moved on earlier.

 

People who multi-date probably don't think they're hurting other people.

 

I have no issue with multi-dating if the person who is multi-dating is informing everyone that he/she is multi-dating and isn't fooling around with multiple of her dates, and not keeping everyone in the dark about it. Doing it differently is playing it dirty and you damn well know it.

 

Of course you can ask her. But that's no guarantee either. You know, a lot of people consider themselves single as long as they're not in a committed relationship. So if you ask a girl who's casually dating another guy or two, she might still describe herself as single. And to her, that's not a lie.

 

You're cleverly and subtly twisting sh*t around here. I already said many times I don't have an issue with multi-dating and yes a girl that properly multi-dates for a relationship and keeps every date formal is still single and uninvolved.

 

But that's not the issue I'm pressing on and YOU KNOW THAT. It's a red herring you're throwing into the discussion. It's sh*t like that Cypress.

 

Then perhaps you're the problem.

 

Play that game.

Edited October 1, 2011 by Nexus One

[Cypress25]

You said it was controlling if I stopped dating a woman of who I found out she was involved with another man.

 

No, I said it was controlling to give her rules to follow. Now you're saying you don't do that in person, but you've been doing it in this forum. All I know about you is what you write here. And in your posts, you say things like "women should do this...women shouldn't do that...this is how women should behave..." That comes across as trying to control their behavior, trying to tell them what to do and how to act. Because that's how you write. Maybe you should add a little disclaimer, like "I would never say this to a woman's face, but I think she should do this and that." The fact is, you still have a controlling personality, even if you don't let it show in real life. Obviously, you've got ideas about how everyone else should behave. It's all those "shoulds" that are getting to me.

 

I'm not going to tell her to stop f*cking that guy, I JUST LEAVE. What she does with him is her own business.

 

Apparently you think it's your business too. What if she's not f*cking him, what if she's just dating him? I could imagine you spending an entire first date interrogating a woman. She'd be the one to leave then.

 

When two people are dating each other to get into a committed exclusive relationship, then they need to disclose to each other that they're single and not involved with anyone else in order to proceed.

 

Most people don't decide on the first or second date if they want a committed relationship with that person. They don't even know each other. And many people would describe themselves as single if they're not in a committed relationship, like I said.

 

I have no issue with multi-dating if the person who is multi-dating is informing everyone that he/she is multi-dating and isn't fooling around with multiple of her dates, and not keeping everyone in the dark about it.

 

Most people don't care to know about that. I know I wouldn't like it if a guy showed up to a first date and said "By the way, I'm dating other girls but I'm not fooling around with any of them. Just thought you should know." I'd be like, "uh, thanks for making this date really awkward and uncomfortable. I was hoping we could just have a good time and get to know each other." It just doesn't seem very classy to make such an announcement. If the guy is single, then I figure he may or may not be casually dating other people. I don't need to be told.

[oaks]

Au contraire, it's women who are responsible for this unfortunate state of affairs. I personally would have no problem waiting quite a bit longer than 3 dates IF I was certain that the girl was genuinely interested in me. But how the hell can I be certain?? I think I speak for nearly every man when I say that we've all been in situations where women pretended to like us only to use us for attention, free meals or some other purpose. And this is not a rare occasion either. Women like that are all over the place.

 

The only way to be certain that she is interested is to see if she's willing to have sex with you. And, in an effort to avoid wasting time and investing your emotions in someone who's using your, this test should be done as quickly as possible.

 

I'd like to opt out of your free service - I'm not in need of a spokesman at the moment.

 

I'm not going to claim that there aren't women out there who only pretend to like men - and I'm sure it goes both ways for various motives - but I don't feel that I've been particularly targeted by these women. I think there are plenty of ways to be confident that a woman is interested in you without needing to get your dick wet.