4 dates too late

[oaks]

I see you are from the UK. MY understanding is its not so common there for people to multi-date as it is in the U.S.

 

I've read that in this forum (and similar places) but haven't seen any studies about it one way or another.

[ThsAmericanLife]

If he's willing to screw you over during the dating process, chances are he's willing to screw you over when you both are boyfriend and girlfriend. But according to you it's ethical to do that during the dating process and his entire behavior will change after the magic word 'exclusivity'.

 

THANK YOU!!!

 

My thoughts exactly. Like somehow, instantly, like magic, someone is instantly capable of being exclusive and monogamous because they said that word.

 

In the meantime, they've demonstrated just the opposite by their multi-dating behavior.

 

I think I realized just this morning why conversations like these piss me off so much...

 

...and why people who date one person at a time are confused and annoyed by those who multi-date.

 

People who are legitimately looking for a committed, monogamous relationship are confused and annoyed by people who SAY that is what they want... but then who demonstrate their inability to do so in a million ways with their multi-dating... and JUSTIFY it.

 

Hey... I did say that I'm looking for a committed monogamous relationship. and I'm the messed up one?? Nope. Just CONSISTENT.

 

In the spirit of learning and trying new things... I used to date men who multi-date.... but starting today, I won't.

 

Starting today... the first question I ask before accepting a date with someone is to ask them if they are dating anyone else... that means coffee dates... sex dates. I don't care.

 

I'm not wasting even one 'date' on a multi-dater. Not one.

 

I want to meet men who by DEFINITION of a date, means I'm 'exclusive' until we decide not to date anymore.. and the same goes for him. Not the other way around.

 

I refuse to have this stupid 'exclusivity' discussion with people who need to spread themselves around to validate their existence.

[ThsAmericanLife]

Serial dating - that sounds just like what you're advocating - ie seeing one person at a time! It sounds fine to me, although sometimes I'm also happy dating more than one person for a few dates.

 

Multiple sex partners - that's not for me. I don't want to have sex with someone I've only met a few times and I don't think that's any different whether I'm seeing just one or a few people. There's a blind assumption on the part of multi-dating haters that it involves having multiple sex partners, and then that line keeps getting trotted out as a reason why multi-dating is inherently bad. I can't see that behaviour stopping, no matter how many times it gets explained that multi-dating doesn't always involve multiple sex partners (or even any sex partners!).

 

As for your last points: I don't see that it's a problem that I have enough time to schedule some dates. I think I'm just as interested in getting to know all my dates, although of course it's often the case that after 1 or 2 dates I learn all I ever want to know about a person (ie, I don't want to see them again). Finally, yes I enjoy the attention of an attentive and interested woman. That's why I'm putting some effort into looking for her!

 

We may have to agree to disagree on some of your concerns.

 

Because it is alot easier to know when someone is multi-dating than it is to know what the heck they do on their 'multi-date'.

 

I have better things to do with my time than babysit people... Or feed their egos so they can feel all popular with their string of 'option's.

[ThsAmericanLife]

Multi-dating when you're single is not cheating. It's just being single. People who do that are certainly capable of being faithful to one person when they make a commitment. Going from single to in a relationship doesn't mean you have to change your entire personality.

 

Nope. It isn't cheating.

 

BUT... Multi-dating is inconsistent behavior. It does not demonstrate an ability to be in a committed relationship.

 

It demonstrates a willingness and desire to string as many people along as possible, for as long as possible...

 

It demonstrates a fundamental selfishness that is inconsistent with developing trust necessary for love to grow.

 

It demonstrates an inability to be ok with one's own company... alone if need be... until you meet someone you want to commit to.

 

You may be confusing me and Nexus on this one point... he says he's ok with 'respectful' multidating.

 

I say multidating is disrespectful by definition... regardless of how much sex they have or don't have.

 

I don't care what they are or are not doing. I prefer not to worry about it. If they need to see others simultaneously, they can do that. I just won't be one of them.

 

It is a phenomenon that didn't exist before OLD... except among 'players' and 'hoes'. But now that we have OLD, it's suddenly ok.

[oaks]

On multidating...

 

It is a phenomenon that didn't exist before OLD... except among 'players' and 'hoes'. But now that we have OLD, it's suddenly ok.

 

 

I'm not sure that I'm old enough to remember. Where's Carhill?

[oaks]

Starting today... the first question I ask before accepting a date with someone is to ask them if they are dating anyone else... that means coffee dates... sex dates. I don't care.

 

I'm not wasting even one 'date' on a multi-dater. Not one.

 

I think it's a great idea for you to do that, given your views on multi-dating. Good luck!

 

Reading that back it sounds sarcastic, but it isn't meant to! I think it's good if you can check out things that are deal breakers before a first date, because when you find them out later you always end up thinking you've wasted your time. (Although, I'm usually hesitant about asking if someone is pregnant... but that's a story for a different thread.)

[ThsAmericanLife]

I think it's a great idea for you to do that, given your views on multi-dating. Good luck!

 

Reading that back it sounds sarcastic, but it isn't meant to! I think it's good if you can check out things that are deal breakers before a first date, because when you find them out later you always end up thinking you've wasted your time. (Although, I'm usually hesitant about asking if someone is pregnant... but that's a story for a different thread.)

 

It's ok... I know you aren't trying to be snarky...

 

It just seems more straightforward to say no to all multi-dating than 'some', or just a few dates... etc.

 

Then we are back down that same discussion of how much sex is appropriate before being 'exclusive'... how many dates until deciding, etc.

 

Just trying to keep it simple.

 

I'm also not one who is swayed by the number of 'options' they may or may not appear to have. Seeing that a guy is 'in demand' does absolutely zero for me. There is this idea that being unavailable and in demand attracts more women. Maybe some. Not me. He needs to have a life. That's for sure. That's not the same as having lots of dates.

 

I feel very capable of making up my own mind about a guy without the need for approval of my fellow ladies. I AM attracted to men who have had previous LTRs before though.

 

Anyway... Just a peek into my little brain... I understand I'm kind of the outlier on this... and that's ok. I'm used to being the outlier on lots of things...

 

Thanks for the willingness to discuss...

[carhill]

I'm not sure that I'm old enough to remember. Where's Carhill?

 

Reading along in advance of heading out this morning in the RV. No internet for five days

 

I see TAL's points relevant to fundamental psychology and compatible psychological and emotional styles. Many years ago, prior to the internet but when 'phone' dating was popular in my locale, I tried multi-dating for a couple months and found it emotionally overwhelming. Literally, information overload. My record was three dates in one day, a Saturday, though most interactions would occur over a week's time, like a different person every other night. Nothing substantive came out of that period other than an empty wallet and confusion. So for me, MD doesn't work. For someone else, perhaps. Our two mindsets are different and likely incompatible. As an example, my exW was dating others when we met and dated more than one man while we were separated. It works for her. That's why she now has had a BF for a couple years and I live alone. Different 'styles'.

 

Enjoy the weekend

[oaks]

No internet for five days

 

Sounds like bliss!

[bluenightowl]

 

My thoughts exactly. Like somehow, instantly, like magic, someone is instantly capable of being exclusive and monogamous because they said that word.

 

 

From what I've seen usually people don't have such a talk right away, and they have spent time together and rather like each other. Some ask and some don't ask, but most who do feel they know the answer almost before talking about it. Its not so much an instant change of mindset, just a confirmation of it.

 

I think Carhill said it well in another post about demonstrating actions. I see the word exclusivity as a catchall for all the things one could say to find out if they are dating other people and if they only want to date you and vice versa. To be asking if they are dating someone else is just a form of that type of conversation.

 

Its good to ask that question early if that is important to you, but as we have seen people don't always know what they want, will change their mind, esp. when they almost a stranger and you barely know them. To ask them if they are dating anyone else on the first date, could mean just that, or it can mean, I only want to date you.. and someone may not be ready at that stage to instantly know at that point.

 

Perhaps like Nexus One you should spell it out clearly to them. I prefer to date one person at a time. This is my dating style. How do you feel about that, and go from there.

[Pierre]

It goes like this:

 

There is a co-worker that is new. Since her arrival I have been flirting with her and she is receptive.

 

So I say to her:

 

"Are you dating or seeing anyone? I would love to go out with you this weekend."

 

She says:

 

"No, I am not seeing anyone".

 

I assume that she is truly receptive and we set up the date.

 

Lets assume she says:

 

"I am dating someone."

 

I reply:

 

"Oh no, That is awful. There is a lucky man out there somewhere." and walk away.

 

I will not ask a woman out on a date if she is actively dating someone else. This is my preference.

 

Lets assume she says:

 

"I am not seeing anyone."

 

What if she is lying?

 

What to do?

[bluenightowl]

Nope. It isn't cheating.

 

BUT... Multi-dating is inconsistent behavior. It does not demonstrate an ability to be in a committed relationship.

 

It demonstrates a willingness and desire to string as many people along as possible, for as long as possible...

 

It demonstrates a fundamental selfishness that is inconsistent with developing trust necessary for love to grow.

 

It demonstrates an inability to be ok with one's own company... alone if need be... until you meet someone you want to commit to.

 

Of course, I generally agree, but as in the case of Oaks, he'll go on a few initial dates as many people do. I really don't think his intention is to string as many people along as possible.

 

I think another way to think about it, is what is respectful. Is it okay to go on a coffee date with someone, and then two days later go on a date with someone else for a coffee. I would say yes. Is anyone getting hurt? No, I really don't think so at this point.

 

I'm the type that would quickly move from that to dating one person. After even 2 dates I'd start to feel guilty and get too confused about who is who. It wouldn't be good for them or me. I suspect most people feel this way.

 

But dating one person for sure takes out all that confusion. Your job though is to determine if the other person is multi-dating. I've read about so many people here on LS that were not into multi-dating but started because they kept getting used and/or hurt by multi-daters. Words are often just words, so you'll need to find a way that can really determine if that other people is dating others or not.

 

If you OLD then my guess is the majority are multi-dating. If you meet someone in RL that you have known for a while and you both respect each other, I really doubt you'll have to worry at all.

 

In my experience, I've never brought up the 'are you dating anyone else' conversation with someone in RL dating. I knew and they knew. In OLD, you're dating strangers, and you cannot necessarily trust anything they say on the first day, much less 'are you dating anyone else' Only time and actions will show that and earn their and your trust.

Edited October 6, 2011 by bluenightowl

[bluenightowl]

It goes like this:

 

There is a co-worker that is new. Since her arrival I have been flirting with her and she is receptive.

 

So I say to her:

 

"Are you dating or seeing anyone? I would love to go out with you this weekend."

 

She says:

 

"No, I am not seeing anyone".

 

I assume that she is truly receptive and we set up the date.

 

Lets assume she says:

 

"I am dating someone."

 

I reply:

 

"Oh no, That is awful. There is a lucky man out there somewhere." and walk away.

 

I will not ask a woman out on a date if she is actively dating someone else. This is my preference.

 

Lets assume she says:

 

"I am not seeing anyone."

 

What if she is lying?

 

What to do?

 

A great scenario for real life dating. She probably would be telling the truth in that scenario, and I'd give it a go too, and you might even know her a bit. Its interesting in real life, you can almost incorporate asking someone out and 'are they seeing anyone' as part of asking them out.

 

Now try that in Online dating. In online dating, a woman might have 20 men sending her emails (more like a 100). She's being asked out every day, every hour in some cases. Online dating encourages dating lots and lots of people. Is makes every man and women a bit like a pickup artist at a bar. I would even argue it almost puts good people in awkward situations that would never happen to them in real life and encourages all the but the most principled to treat people in ways that are not comfortable to them in real life.

[oaks]

Of course, I generally agree, but as in the case of Oaks, he'll go on a few initial dates as many people do. I really don't think his intention is to string as many people along as possible.

 

That's correct. Nor is it my intention to string anyone on for as long as possible.

[Pierre]

 

I think another way to think about it, is what is respectful. Is it okay to go on a coffee date with someone, and then two days later go on a date with someone else for a coffee. I would say yes. Is anyone getting hurt? No, I really don't think so at this point.

 

I have no interest in being part of a line up to see if the girl picks me. I want to ask her out and simply say: "Are you seeing someone?"

 

Women tell me that simply saying "I am seeing someone" is the nice way to say no to a date. So I make it real easy and ask if they are seeing someone. If they don't want a date all they have to do is say "yes".

[bluenightowl]

I have no interest in being part of a line up to see if the girl picks me. I want to ask her out and simply say: "Are you seeing someone?"

 

Women tell me that simply saying "I am seeing someone" is the nice way to say no to a date. So I make it real easy and ask if they are seeing someone. If they don't want a date all they have to do is say "yes".

 

I've heard that as well that women will say that if they don't want to date you. I think your approach is a good one in real life dating. In online dating I think most people go on a few dates at the beginning with different people and so perhaps a different way of thinking about that question is needed because I don't think all those online daters are deceitful cheating people either, but the platforms encourage such behaviour.

[Pierre]

I've heard that as well that women will say that if they don't want to date you. I think your approach is a good one in real life dating. In online dating I think most people go on a few dates at the beginning with different people and so perhaps a different way of thinking about that question is needed because I don't think all those online daters are deceitful cheating people either, but the platforms encourage such behaviour.

 

I never have done OLD and never will, but you make a very strong point and i agree with you. Maybe that has to do with the issue of multi-dating.

 

I don't like to ask women for a date without not knowing who they are. And when I ask for a date I already have a good idea they will say yes. And when I ask I am looking for a relationship. I have no interest in dating for sport.

[LittleTiger]

Well this may be a bit of a shocker for most modern daters but these days I wouldn't have sex with a man until both of us consider the relationship to be heading towards serious, never mind just committed.

 

When I was young and even up to a few years ago when my marriage first ended, I considered sex to be something you did for fun. Now I consider the emotional investment (and other risk factors) too great!

 

If someone starts insiting that it's time you have sex, and you don't feel ready, tell them to go and have sex with themselves!

[Pierre]

Well this may be a bit of a shocker for most modern daters but these days I wouldn't have sex with a man until both of us consider the relationship to be heading towards serious, never mind just committed.

 

When I was young and even up to a few years ago when my marriage first ended, I considered sex to be something you did for fun. Now I consider the emotional investment (and other risk factors) too great!

 

If someone starts insiting that it's time you have sex, and you don't feel ready, tell them to go and have sex with themselves!

 

I was always girl crazy since I can remember, but my goal was to have a GF and never thought about sex for sport.

[LittleTiger]

I was always girl crazy since I can remember, but my goal was to have a GF and never thought about sex for sport.

 

'Sport' isn't quite what I meant Pierre!

 

I've never had sex without some kind of intellectual or emotional connection and in most 'encounters' (which by anyone's standards is a very low number) it was within a committed relationship, but it wasn't until recently that I realised how unfulfilling sex is without 'love'.

 

Maybe that's because I got lucky and fell head over heels in love for the first time in my 40s - now I know how awesome it is with someone you can't live without, anything less just wouldn't interest me.

 

I think it's horrifying how quickly people have sex these days (not to mention how many partners they have!) and then they wonder why the relationship doesn't work out!

[ThsAmericanLife]

It goes like this:

 

There is a co-worker that is new. Since her arrival I have been flirting with her and she is receptive.

 

So I say to her:

 

"Are you dating or seeing anyone? I would love to go out with you this weekend."

 

She says:

 

"No, I am not seeing anyone".

 

I assume that she is truly receptive and we set up the date.

 

Lets assume she says:

 

"I am dating someone."

 

I reply:

 

"Oh no, That is awful. There is a lucky man out there somewhere." and walk away.

 

I will not ask a woman out on a date if she is actively dating someone else. This is my preference.

 

Lets assume she says:

 

"I am not seeing anyone."

 

What if she is lying?

 

What to do?

 

If she says she's not seeing anyone, you ask her out.

 

It is possible that she is lying. But that is alot easier to detect (going on dates with other men) than it is knowing what she's doing on those dates.

 

Hence the need to avoid people who are seeing others in any capacity.

 

Alot less drama.

[ThsAmericanLife]

I have no interest in being part of a line up to see if the girl picks me. I want to ask her out and simply say: "Are you seeing someone?"

 

Women tell me that simply saying "I am seeing someone" is the nice way to say no to a date. So I make it real easy and ask if they are seeing someone. If they don't want a date all they have to do is say "yes".

 

Me either. Seems so lame. The 'line up' that is...

 

The other reason I don't multidate is hey... what if the coffee date went great! I'd want to see them again really soon!

 

But hey... if I or they were multidating, then one or both would be canceling on someone or going on a date they weren't that interested in... or putting off their excitement for the 'first' date until after they sampled lord knows how many 'coffee' dates.

 

The whole thing is messed up. So, I'm with you Pierre.

[bluenightowl]

Me either. Seems so lame. The 'line up' that is...

 

The other reason I don't multidate is hey... what if the coffee date went great! I'd want to see them again really soon!

 

 

Again, I'm not advocating for endless dates and I am generally against multi-dating, but if you go on a fabulous coffee date and it was great and want to see them again really soon, you might then decide to not date anyone else and see how it goes.

 

Another time you might have a coffee date and it was okay, but you're still not sure about them, so you entertain another first date.

 

Again, in OLD this is pretty much the norm and I don't think Oaks, nor all those OLD are all cheaters, but the platforms promote treating people in very disposable way. The best scenario is to date someone in RL that you already know somewhat.

 

 

But hey... if I or they were multidating, then one or both would be canceling on someone or going on a date they weren't that interested in... or putting off their excitement for the 'first' date until after they sampled lord knows how many 'coffee' dates.

 

 

No, it doesn't mean cancelling on other people, and it doesn't mean they are not interested in them or even putting off the excitement of a 'first date'. It could, but it doesn't have to mean that. I really don't think all people can turn off their emotions so easily. Some can, some can't, but I think it depends more on their readiness to date.

 

I'm playing devils advocate in many ways, because I tend to not to like multi-dating, but I take exception to a simple coffee date and especially if the person were to say to be open about their past relationship and why they want to date one of two people before locking in on one person. I really don't think such people are cheaters.

Edited October 6, 2011 by bluenightowl

[oaks]

But hey... if I or they were multidating, then one or both would be canceling on someone or going on a date they weren't that interested in... or putting off their excitement for the 'first' date until after they sampled lord knows how many 'coffee' dates.

 

Are you saying that multi-daters can't come up with better date ideas than having coffee? Outrageous!

[ThsAmericanLife]

Another time you might have a coffee date and it was okay, but you're still not sure about them, so you entertain another first date....

 

I'm playing devils advocate in many ways, because I tend to not to like multi-dating, but I take exception to a simple coffee date and especially if the person were to say to be open about their past relationship and why they want to date one of two people before locking in on one person. I really don't think such people are cheaters.

 

Why entertain another first date? Just go out with the first one a few more times then decide. Why is it that tough?? That's what you'd do in real life.

 

If they want to 'date' one or two people, then fine. They can do it on someone else's time. Not mine.

 

I don't consider them 'cheaters'. Just not a good investment in my time. I'm not here to give them 'options', fill up their nights/weekends, and pump up their egos.