Around what age do the awkward men become more desirable?

[AHardDaysNight]

Your feelings/ actions on that subject are fine.

Porn can be addicting. I once had like 3GB before I cleared it all this past November.

 

Some fine LS ladies like DreamingofTigers and YouGoGirl helped encourage me to kick it.

Only had a few short relapses. Didn't go for the odd stuff, just normal foreplay, etc.

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showpost.php?p=3063645&postcount=93

 

 

That's fine too, though a little sex is prob. okay

( better put:

human and understandable), even for Christians.

I've posted my experience and have changed my thinking on the subject considerably.

Though I'd never recommend anyone get sexually involved with others casually (it brings a lot of guilt...), committed and monogomous sex seems okay, esp. if you end up marrying the other, like I did.

 

 

Methinks Elyisian is a player and took a swipe at some of my advice.

I'm no prude either, Elysian, and though I haven't had as many ladies as you, I still know some things and try to impart my advice to other fellas who were a lot like me when I was awkward in my 20s...

....particularly (not directed at HardDay'sNight) those virgin men in their late 20s and 30s who somehow think they're "oddballs" for being in that state, or worse, fear women will laugh or intimidate them if they discover they're not "experienced."

http://www.enotalone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=379328&p=4811746&viewfull=1#post4811746

 

So I def. know where these guys are coming from... Dating is hard and women are like snakes. You think things are going well, you've been dating 3-6 mos., next thing you know, all Hades breaks loose and there's not one thing she can't find wrong with you... This is apart from sex.

 

I agree. Finding a good woman is hard.

 

I really respect your advice, FloridaMan. It's always good hearing from you and carhill, two men that were in my situation at my age, and came out of the darkness.

[Eclypse]

AHardDaysNight you seem like a nice person, the kind of guy I'd probably be friends with. Unfortunately for whatever reason women just aren't attracted to you. There's no magic answer for that, you'll have to do some soul searching on your own. The only piece of concrete advice is not to take some of the comments said here too literally. This is the Internet and "everyone" on it is a stud who gets laid every night. There are lots of keyboard warriors who will try and make you feel bad. Don't believe them. Even getting ONE connection is hard for most people. Me, I consider my self lucky I met my gf when I did. Only girl to show interest in me as a person and I ain't gonna let go. Before her I felt like you did.

 

Chances are it's going to hit you when you least expect. Just don't show outward signs of desperation. You'll also have to get over your social anxiety around women somehow. If you can't do that then just act like you have. As Morpheus said: "I can only show you the door, you're the one that has to walk through it."

[AHardDaysNight]

AHardDaysNight you seem like a nice person, the kind of guy I'd probably be friends with. Unfortunately for whatever reason women just aren't attracted to you. There's no magic answer for that, you'll have to do some soul searching on your own. The only piece of concrete advice is not to take some of the comments said here too literally. This is the Internet and "everyone" on it is a stud who gets laid every night. There are lots of keyboard warriors who will try and make you feel bad. Don't believe them. Even getting ONE connection is hard for most people. Me, I consider my self lucky I met my gf when I did. Only girl to show interest in me as a person and I ain't gonna let go. Before her I felt like you did.

 

Chances are it's going to hit you when you least expect. Just don't show outward signs of desperation. You'll also have to get over your social anxiety around women somehow. If you can't do that then just act like you have. As Morpheus said: "I can only show you the door, you're the one that has to walk through it."

 

I agree with this.

 

I am taking steps to lose weight. I already lost 3 pounds (weighed myself the other day), and I've cut down soda and cut coffee creamer out of my coffee. Also not eating as much fast food as before (when it was almost every day after college classes...now I'm going to the cafe on campus, and eating the healthy food there.)

 

Baby steps, that's what it takes. While I don't think EP is a nice person, there are some things I agree with him on...like how I need to change if I want to get a woman. I don't ever want to view women like he does, but I have! to take women off the pedestal. They don't belong up there, and they are as flawed as I am.

 

I think the reason why guys like EP are players and are successful at getting laid, is that they don't give a crap. Of course, I give a crap, so I'm single. I need to be somewhere in between the nice guy and the bad boy.

[Floridaman]

While I don't think EP is a nice person, there are some things I agree with him on...like how I need to change if I want to get a woman.

He's right on those things.

His "drill sgt." analogy was great too.

You do need someone to get you out of your home or apt. and out meeting women in all kinds of places -- church and other singles groups, activities, hobby or professional clubs, etc.

 

At 25, I finally awoke and realized I needed to do proactive things to meet women.

Didn't have internet forums or online dating, and like SomeDude, didn't have a lot of friends, male or female. My career moved me from town to town and had difficulty forming relationships.

 

Recently counted in my head the number of women I went out on dates with -- not GFs.

Came to around 20 from 16-30.

May seem like a lot, but that's not even 2 a year.

 

3 LTRs (2-3 mos. to 1.5 years) but a lot of single dates where the woman declined a second or third date.

Was shocked to realize there were cities I lived where I didn't go out with anyone, though I do remember trying to arrange some dates with a couple of women. They would be ambivalent or it didn't work out.

 

So get out there and try to meet more women. Maybe read some of the tips I and others presented in this thread.

 

_For those who can't get dates in their late 20s, 30s and 40s

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t269779/0ae0cbb74a81af14f00324d18bb0fc60

[somedude81]

Recently counted in my head the number of women I went out on dates with -- not GFs.

Came to around 20 from 16-30.

I think I'm at 5. Though the number is probably lower because the girl might not have realized it was a date.

 

Zero LTR's.

 

"Dated" one girl for two weeks.

 

That's the extent of my relationship history

 

And people wonder why I'm so depressed

[Dust]

I think I'm at 5. Though the number is probably lower because the girl might not have realized it was a date.

 

Zero LTR's.

 

"Dated" one girl for two weeks.

 

That's the extent of my relationship history

 

And people wonder why I'm so depressed

 

What did you think of that girl in the Youtube video I PM"ed you. Bet you'd enjoy feeling awkward around her! get it?

[somedude81]

What did you think of that girl in the Youtube video I PM"ed you. Bet you'd enjoy feeling awkward around her! get it?

Her boobs were too small.

[Nexus One]

And people wonder why I'm so depressed

 

No I don't actually wonder about why you're depressed, I sympathize with you, but I don't wonder about "why". You sabotage yourself by coming up with excuses, but your excuses don't cut it in my opinion. I just think you don't work hard enough for it.

[somedude81]

Which of my excuses am I using? Sorry I have a headache right now, I don't remember what reasons I stated.

 

What could I work harder on?

[Dust]

Her boobs were too small.

 

hahaha her boobs were to small. Why are you so picky. You need to start enjoying women and stop stressing.

[Nexus One]

Which of my excuses am I using? Sorry I have a headache right now, I don't remember what reasons I stated.

 

What could I work harder on?

 

Cold approach girls you don't know.

 

First you said, you don't know those girls, so you don't feel anything for them. Then I said, that the point is to ask girls you find attractive out on a date to get to know them better, to check for compatibility and to grow a bond/connection.

 

Then you said, bars and clubs are not your thing.

 

Then I said, that's not what I'm talking about, forget bars and clubs, do it in the street. Hit on girls where they're waiting, where they're shopping, where they're hanging out. Develop a script on what to say if you have to, account for multiple scenarios if you have to. Hand out cards with your contact information or on a post-it if there's little time.

 

Make a plan, think big, think things out thoroughly. Slip and fall if you have to, pick yourself up and learn from your mistakes. Nothing in life will be given to you, EVER. Not money, not a career, not a woman, NOTHING. The only way to get those things is to work hard for them.

[somedude81]

Oh, the cold approach thing. That's not going to happen. I'm not a pickup artist.

 

That's probably the worst way to meet women, no offense.

[AHardDaysNight]

Somedude, you have more experience than me. You have no reason to be depressed.

[Nexus One]

Oh, the cold approach thing. That's not going to happen. I'm not a pickup artist.

 

That's probably the worst way to meet women, no offense.

 

*facepalm*

 

I'm not a pick-up artist either, but I'm willing strike up a conversation with a girl/woman I don't know, I'm willing to ask for her name, I'm willing to ask if she's single and I'm willing to ask her to exchange numbers so I can take her out on a date to be able get to know her better.

 

Would I take advantage of a woman I met in the street by playing her, f*cking her and then tossing her aside? No.

 

It's yet another f*cking excuse and you know it. Every day women out there are hoping a guy just talks to them and sweeps them off their feet. You don't realize that, because you blame women, you see them as the enemy, because as you said, you see love as a battle.

 

But like I said to you before. If you've come to look at it in that way, then you already lost that battle.

 

Your perspective hasn't been working for you. It's better to realize that now, rather on your deathbed with regrets in your heart.

Edited October 7, 2011 by Nexus One

[somedude81]

Somedude, you have more experience than me. You have no reason to be depressed.

No, I have plenty of reasons to be.

 

You should be more depressed

*facepalm*

 

I'm not a pick-up artist either, but I'm willing strike up a conversation with a girl/woman I don't know, I'm willing to ask for her name, I'm willing to ask if she single and I'm willing to ask her to exchange numbers so I can take her out on a date to be able get to know her better.

And how often does that actually work? How many phone numbers, first dates, second dates, something more, have you gotten?

 

I can already tell you that it would fail miserably for me. I really don't need something else in my life that destroys my ego..

 

 

Every day women out there are hoping a guy just talks to them and sweeps them off their feet.

I call BS on that.

 

Even if it were true, they are hoping it's by an Abercrombie and Fitch model, not somebody like me.

 

You don't realize that, because you blame women, you see them as the enemy, because as you said, you see love as a battle.

How else should I see it? It's been nothing but a painful struggle for me. And I've always lost.

 

Your perspective hasn't been working for you.It's better to realize that now, rather on your deathbed with regrets in your heart.

My perspective is formed by real-life events. I wasn't always bitter. I became this way because of what happened to me.

[verhrzn]

No, I have plenty of reasons to be.

 

You should be more depressed

 

And how often does that actually work? How many phone numbers, first dates, second dates, something more, have you gotten?

 

I can already tell you that it would fail miserably for me. I really don't need something else in my life that destroys my ego..

 

I call BS on that.

 

Even if it were true, they are hoping it's by an Abercrombie and Fitch model, not somebody like me.

 

How else should I see it? It's been nothing but a painful struggle for me. And I've always lost.

 

My perspective is formed by real-life events. I wasn't always bitter. I became this way because of what happened to me.

 

Nexus' point is not that you're NEVER going to fail. There ARE going to be some women who turn you down... not every single woman on Earth is attracted to you.

 

But by approaching women and letting them know right off the bat you're interested, you're a lot more likely to get numbers than you will by either avoiding them or turning them into your friends first. That's just pure logic.

 

Women expect to be approached, and if you approach with confidence and personality, you'll win over some women who might NOT have been attracted to you otherwise.

 

This whole "oh women want the Adonis" is such ridiculous malarky.... Women are not attracted to men in the same way men are attracted to women, meaning women actually don't put a lot of stock in lots. (They put SOME, but not a LOT.) Women are much more swayed by attitude and by personality. My old upstairs neighbor was an obnoxious obese prick, but he was a charming prick, and he had women throwing themselves at him. (Our house had a shared network, and we found a folder of his of all these girls doing nude poses for him. YEAH.)

 

I'm sorry that your experiences have lead you to be bitter, but it also sounds like you've been trying the same thing over and over again. The "cold approach" Nexus is encouraging may be a little wounding to your pride, but it is guaranteed to pay off better than your current model... so weight some ego-bruising against the high likelihood of more dates and more female interest.

[betterdeal]

Oh, the cold approach thing. That's not going to happen. I'm not a pickup artist.

 

That's probably the worst way to meet women, no offense.

 

And the best way is?

[AHardDaysNight]

No, I have plenty of reasons to be.

 

You should be more depressed

 

At least I have a real condition that prevents me from interacting with girls. Social anxiety.

 

What is your issue? All I see consistently is that you reject girls that want to be with you.

 

I have no girls coming my way, so at least you have a chance at a relationship.

[somedude81]

Nexus' point is not that you're NEVER going to fail. There ARE going to be some women who turn you down... not every single woman on Earth is attracted to you.

Yeah, that was never my belief. Try, "no woman on Earth is attracted to you."

 

But by approaching women and letting them know right off the bat you're interested, you're a lot more likely to get numbers than you will by either avoiding them or turning them into your friends first. That's just pure logic.

I'm not interested in women I don't know. I don't fall in love or want to screw every pretty woman I see. Not all men are like that.

 

It's never my intention to make female friends. That crap just happens by itself.

Women expect to be approached, and if you approach with confidence and personality, you'll win over some women who might NOT have been attracted to you otherwise.

Seriously a woman can be attracted to a guy just because he approached her? That sounds really fishy.

 

This whole "oh women want the Adonis" is such ridiculous malarky.... Women are not attracted to men in the same way men are attracted to women, meaning women actually don't put a lot of stock in lots. (They put SOME, but not a LOT.) Women are much more swayed by attitude and by personality. My old upstairs neighbor was an obnoxious obese prick, but he was a charming prick, and he had women throwing themselves at him. (Our house had a shared network, and we found a folder of his of all these girls doing nude poses for him. YEAH.)

Meh, I'm not good looking or charming. I was cheated on both counts.

 

I'm sorry that your experiences have lead you to be bitter, but it also sounds like you've been trying the same thing over and over again. The "cold approach" Nexus is encouraging may be a little wounding to your pride, but it is guaranteed to pay off better than your current model... so weight some ego-bruising against the high likelihood of more dates and more female interest.

What's frustrating is that my way should work. I meet plenty of girls in classes, school clubs and work and yet none of them ever want to date me.

 

Am I really looking the wrong places?

And the best way is?

Hell if I know. I just know what doesn't work.

At least I have a real condition that prevents me from interacting with girls. Social anxiety.

 

What is your issue?

Do I really need to keep repeating how I'm not physically attractive to women and I don't have any game. Well I just did anyways.

 

All I see consistently is that you reject girls that want to be with you.

Huh?!

 

In my life I have known of three girls that liked me. All three were below my physical standards. One I rejected because she had too many issues, one girl I screwed up with by saying something stupid and she lost interest, the other I "dated" for two week then she left.

 

Nobody has liked me in about 6-7 years.

[AD1980]

somedude you know we have similliar problems with women my advice to you would be to get some male friends..

 

Not just to help you get women but it takes your mind off things for awhile when your hangign out with your buddies on the weekend shooting the ****,,

 

I think it helps your self worth when you have people who do care about you..

 

Plus thye always tell me about the grass is greender synrome and how being in a relationship and married isnt always pleasant:laugh:

[Floridaman]

I'm not interested in women I don't know..

SomeDude,

You do need to strike-up conversation with women you meet.... everywhere, like Lexus advises.

 

Posted this elsewhere but feel it might help you and others.

 

Many women won't give "clear indications" they're interested. Oftentimes, guys can't always read a woman's signals.

If you only pursued women who gave you signals, you're gonna limit yourself and not get that close to finding a real love.

 

My cold-call experience:

If you a see a woman that interests you, start some conversation and if things go well and she seems receptive, steer the conversation into the two of you meeting the next weekend to talk more over dinner, during a visit to a community arts and crafts fair, a visit to a museum, ballgame or something "neutral" like coffee...etc.

 

That's what I did with a woman I "cold-called" at 27-28 at night grad school classes.

Saw her sitting in the chairs between classes. She was reading a book or something. Didn't pick up any signals. I don't think she noticed me on the other side of the hallway.

Just seemed attracted to her so I go and sit next to her.

 

Struck up conversation with her.

Why was she there? What classes taking?

What she likes about the field she's in? etc.

 

Not an overly long conversation, but enough to generate some rapport.

As it seemed she felt comfortable with me, invited her to a weekend date.

That led to a 1.5 year relationship.

 

Yes, I took a risk there.

That woman could have said, "I'm not interested in talking with you now" or "I'm trying to study for this course," or any other rejection, but would have had to shrug it off and move on to the next one.

Edited October 7, 2011 by Floridaman

[Floridaman]

Posted that cold-call experience bec. in my late 20s, @27,

something in me told me I needed to be more forward so when I saw her sitting there.... it was like I was on the high diving board and realized I had to take the plunge....

 

Was "now or never..." and I just had to take a chance...

 

In those days in the late 80s before the internet, hadn't read any PUA articles and I certainly wasn't a player.

 

Like diving off a high board.

You can stand there and think of all the things that might happen or go wrong, or just confidently approach and dive....

You see others dive off the high board (and go on dates) so there's no evidence to suggest you can't do the same (dive & dive into dating).

 

Of course there will be hazards, like someone water skiing or snow skiing for the first time, but you will learn to handle going over the wakes and moguls and with practice, you'll be able to master that sport.

 

Not gonna ignore the risks and that everything will go well for you (you have been isolated and not dated much, so you don't have a lot of practice in that), but it is worth the risk....

 

As you have a late start on all of this, it will take some time.

Not all women will aceept your invitations.

You may not get second or third dates with many.

That happens. Accept it and move on.

 

If you start doing this, you'll feel more comfortable and not be as scared of asking the next one out.

 

You said you didn't like the thought of asking out a woman you didn't know.

I didn't know that woman I asked out in the cold call, but thought it might be worth trying...

 

You do need to get going on this and take some chances at "cold calling" like Lexus advised and approach more women.

Edited October 7, 2011 by Floridaman

[shayla]

I totally agree with the poster that suggested approaching older women to break the social awkwardness.

 

Another poster said that you should practice the cold approach by starting conversations with women you may not be interested with at all, and better yet, with women that you know will turn you down, get that feeling of rejection over with, get used to it, even embrace it. By the time you work your way to women you are interested in, the confidence will be there and there is nothing more attractive than that.

 

If you are looking for an above average in looks woman with no children and no baggage, make sure that you develop yourself into the man that she would give a second look. Make sure you are able to be a good man to that woman, bring something to the table personality wise that she will find irresistable.

 

Good luck

[somedude81]

SomeDude,

You do need to strike-up conversation with women you meet.... everywhere, like Lexus advises.

 

Posted this elsewhere but feel it might help you and others.

 

Many women won't give "clear indications" they're interested. Oftentimes, guys can't always read a woman's signals.

If you only pursued women who gave you signals, you're gonna limit yourself and not get that close to finding a real love.

 

My cold-call experience:

If you a see a woman that interests you, start some conversation

I appreciate the advice, but random women I see out and about, don't interest me. It doesn't matter how hot she is.

 

I'd look at her, think to myself, "Damn she is gorgeous," maybe stare a little, then be on my way. I wouldn't have any desire to do anything more.

 

As for the signals thing, I don't think I've ever asked out a woman I was getting signals from. That's probably why I've been rejected so much.

If you are looking for an above average in looks woman with no children and no baggage, make sure that you develop yourself into the man that she would give a second look. Make sure you are able to be a good man to that woman, bring something to the table personality wise that she will find irresistable.

 

Good luck

What do you mean develop myself into the man that she would give a second look? Are you talking about improving my physical appearance?

 

And of course I can be a good man. I basically have everything in place to be in a relationship, I just need a girl to say "yes."

[PJKino]

I totally agree with the poster that suggested approaching older women to break the social awkwardness.

 

Another poster said that you should practice the cold approach by starting conversations with women you may not be interested with at all, and better yet, with women that you know will turn you down, get that feeling of rejection over with, get used to it, even embrace it. By the time you work your way to women you are interested in, the confidence will be there and there is nothing more attractive than that.

 

If you are looking for an above average in looks woman with no children and no baggage, make sure that you develop yourself into the man that she would give a second look. Make sure you are able to be a good man to that woman, bring something to the table personality wise that she will find irresistable.

 

Good luck

 

Im not saying your advice is bad im just sick of the over used cliche "confidence" that people make seem is a magic potion that will make most women attracted to you which is bs