Was called a mean bitch the other day just because I have high standards.

[musemaj11]

Who cares what you accept and don't accept in a woman staying home. Her life choices don't have to be yours. But you don't get to put on airs that your life choices are better. They aren't. You aren't a better person then her just because she wants a different kind of man and relationship. And your attack on her is completely unreasonable and immature.

Welcome to the INTERNET!

 

Here we are free to air our opinions whether anyone else cares or not.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

I will ask you what I asked you in your other thread that you've ignored, why do you care so much what kind of life style a woman may want? Your choices don't have to be other people's choices.

[ThsAmericanLife]

I think most women women would love to have a man cook for them in his naked butt wearing only an apron.

 

Then you eat. Then you get it on. Rrrrr.

 

you betcha!!

 

... and I'd be happy to do the dishes sans clothing as well...

[Taramere]

I was on a date last night with this guy. We began talking about relationships and what we look for in a mate. Since we were being open and honest, I told him I wanted a man without kids, and one who can support me financially.

 

He called me a mean bitch and said that I am shallow for not considering a man who perhaps isn't wealthy, but has "lots of love". He said I only want a man for money. His best argument was "Men with money don't know how to love women. They just buy them diamonds and expensive things and think that's enough". He said that men without money are the better kind, because they aren't shallow.

 

 

What a charmer. I wonder if he also feels that they're the better kind if they throw terms like "mean bitch" out at women they're on dates with, just because the woman's values differ from theirs?

 

I'm beginning to think that the only reason I ever questioned my standards was because every man I have ever met didn't meet them.

 

When you talk about standards, do you mean lifestyle choices or behaviour? To me, a marriage where the man supports the woman financially, and the woman focuses on domestic duties and making the home a nice place is a lifestyle choice rather than a "standard" that dictates the quality of a person's character.

 

Standards...well, I think this guy showed low standards by the way he behaved on the date. The two of you were talking about the lifestyle choices you would like to pursue, yours didn't fit in with what he has on offer - and instead of accepting that philosophically, he chose to attack you and call you a "mean bitch." I think ending the date at that point would probably have been a good idea.

 

Why does every guy think that if a woman wants a man with money, that she ONLY wants the money and nothing else?

 

If you don't want men you date to think that about you, then you might have to be clearer about the personal qualities you value - rather than simply talk in terms of the lifestyle choices and ambitions you hope they share.

[ThsAmericanLife]

I find men who have to pay for everything to be obnoxious control freaks.

 

I don't define them as more 'manly'. I find them to be insecure and incapable of showing care through other means. Very one-dimensional. Not attractive to me at all.

 

Different people have different ideas of what they find attractive... dynamics are not always split down gender lines.

 

It is repulsive to me that I'm expected to be weak, dependent, and subservient to be considered feminine.

 

Maybe people should start defining themselves by their relationship style rather than gender.

 

'Dominant, financial provider seeks nurturing submissive to cook, clean, and raise my children and have sex with me on demand. Your needs for emotional support will be met mostly by serving me. You will not have outside interests that conflict with mine or impede upon my needs at all. As a submissive, you will gladly agree and accept my 'leadership' in all or most things. I will consider your needs on a case by case basis... as my needs dictate.'

[Disenchantedly Yours]

Musemaj..it's the internet..don't ya want to share your opinion on my question?

[ThsAmericanLife]

It's not financial control OVER, it's more financial CONTROL. And when a man is in control of these things, just like RubySlippers pointed out, it's a turn on, and we feel more like women.

 

At least I do.

 

Having a man pay for me doesn't make me feel more like a woman. Not at all.

 

I'm glad you added that last statement.... because people who share your viewpoints don't speak for all women or even most... at least not in this country.

[ThsAmericanLife]

How can a man take charge if he asks "hey do you have $20 bucks? i can't afford this". Or how can a man have everything figured out when he says "listen I can't afford to go to the movies with you, i'm broke and spent all my money on boozing up last night".

 

Yeah, what a man.

 

Hmmm... you could try to find out why he doesn't have $20. Maybe he has higher goals and different priorities than yours. Perhaps you should discuss in advance where you are going on dates.

 

About the second... if he is spending his money on 'boozing' instead of finding quality time with you, then that is also a choice of priorities.

 

The way I see it, this has very little to do with money. I look for men whose lifestyle and values are consistent with their money choices. I screen for values and character first. How they make their money and how they spend it should be consistent with that.

 

Interestingly enough, the men who are attracted to me are all quite financially secure... Perhaps it is because I don't expect them to provide for me?? that they don't have to worry about being taken to the bank at some point??

 

The man you went out with was out of line for calling you a name, but we are seeing this conversation out of context too. If he felt like you were only going out with him for a free meal and using your femininity as a means to financial extortion... well, then yea, maybe he is correct to think of you in those terms... but it was in poor taste to share that with you.

 

Noone deserves to be called names.

[phineas]

I forgot I was in America. My bad. The men are different here.

 

I didn't walk out on him, but I don't want to see him again.

 

Dating profile? What dating profile?

 

And it's not shallow. When you bust your ass cleaning their entire place, doing their laundry and making sure there is a warm meal on the table for when they get home, they sure as hell be able to make up for the work and money I lost from staying home and doing all that for them.

 

Right right. This is America. No chivalry. Different mentality. *sigh* why did I bother making a thread about this...

 

Ya know, I used to get in arguments about cleaning with my ex-wife. She'd run a load of dishes through the dish washer, do a load of laundry & act like she busted her ass all day.

 

errr....load of dishes - 5 mins.

Load of laundry - 5 mins.

 

yeah. ok.

Here I come, clean entire bathroom (including shower & toilet in 15 mins)

Sweep & mop all the hardwood floors in 30 mins.

 

I did more cleaning than her. I find that women tend to exaggerate the housework they do in order to make it seem like they actually did something.

 

Unless the man you are dating is like my 3 & 5yr old & just run around the house trashing the place from the moment they wake to the moment they go to sleep I seriously doubt you would be "busting your ass" cleaning an avg. sized house or apartment of a single man with no kids on a daily basis.

 

So try again.

 

I'd have more respect for you if you Just admitted you are a gold digger.

Don't try to insult our intelligence with your lame excuses of "busting your ass cleaning his house".

 

If you honestly felt your "standards" are realistic you wouldn't be here trying to justify them.

[Taramere]

Right right. This is America. No chivalry. Different mentality. *sigh* why did I bother making a thread about this...

 

You said that you're from Russia. If Russian men, and the Russian culture, are so chivalrous and supportive of women in comparison with American men, have you considered returning to Russia in order to meet a traditional Russian man? I'm not saying that in any kind of xenophobic "go back to where you came from" way. I'm not even American.

 

I can understand you wanting to stay in America if you had strong career ambitions. However, if your goal is to be a traditional housewife and Russian men are more supportive of this than American men are, why would you want to stay in America?

 

If it's a case of you more generally preferring the way things are in America than how they are in Russia, then I think you have to accept that the opinions, values and lifestyle choices of the men you meet are reflective - and part of - that culture you prefer.

[Pierre]

Having a man pay for me doesn't make me feel more like a woman. Not at all.

 

I'm glad you added that last statement.... because people who share your viewpoints don't speak for all women or even most... at least not in this country.

 

The reason I like to pay is proba:confused:bly the same reason some women refuse to let a man pay. I like to carry my own weight and I don't like to feel some sort of obligation by accepting someone else to pay the check.

 

If I find a woman that insists on paying I eventually let her pay her way if I read she is uncomfortable.

 

I don't think this is an issue of culture.. This is mostly related to income. When I was young and made less money I was less enthusiastic about paying for everybody.

 

Now that I have a higher income paying the check is negligible to my financial situation. Furthermore, I like to pay.

[phineas]

The reason I like to pay is proba:confused:bly the same reason some women refuse to let a man pay. I like to carry my own weight and I don't like to feel some sort of obligation by accepting someone else to pay the check.

 

If I find a woman that insists on paying I eventually let her pay her way if I read she is uncomfortable.

 

I don't think this is an issue of culture.. This is mostly related to income. When I was young and made less money I was less enthusiastic about paying for everybody.

 

Now that I have a higher income paying the check is negligible to my financial situation. Furthermore, I like to pay.

 

Usually it comes down to me saying "i'm not going to win this am I?" after a min. or 2 of back & forth over paying with some women. LOL!

 

When I was younger & single & rented I honestly had more money than I needed & enjoyed paying for everyone because I could. It really wasn't a problem buying a few rounds & a plate of appetizers at happy hour with my friends who were married with mortgages & children & or struggling. But they were my friends, true friends for yrs & still are.

 

Now, divorced with child support, daycare, mortgage my surplus has dried out. But, my friends are doing better than me so they if i'm short of cash we just hang out as someone's house or they get me a round or two.

But, since I don't really drink all that much I don't feel like i'm sponging.

[Pierre]

Usually it comes down to me saying "i'm not going to win this am I?" after a min. or 2 of back & forth over paying with some women. LOL!

 

When I was younger & single & rented I honestly had more money than I needed & enjoyed paying for everyone because I could. It really wasn't a problem buying a few rounds & a plate of appetizers at happy hour with my friends who were married with mortgages & children & or struggling. But they were my friends, true friends for yrs & still are.

 

Now, divorced with child support, daycare, mortgage my surplus has dried out. But, my friends are doing better than me so they if i'm short of cash we just hang out as someone's house or they get me a round or two.

But, since I don't really drink all that much I don't feel like i'm sponging.

 

Exactly!

 

This is not about culture or ethnicity.

 

This is about income.

 

When I had less money I had great dates by simply having a picnic by the lake. In the end the important thing is to enjoy each other. During those days I would walk away from materialistic women.

[phineas]

Exactly!

 

This is not about culture or ethnicity.

 

This is about income.

 

When I had less money I had great dates by simply having a picnic by the lake. In the end the important thing is to enjoy each other. During those days I would walk away from materialistic women.

 

I walk away from them now.

 

Also, I don't drink all that much & prefer cooking my own food simply because eating out = gaining weight.

[Sanman]

I don't want marriage or kids. And I don't want to be DEPENDANT on a man, I just want him to be ABLE to support me financially. What if I get sick? God forbid what if I get in a car accident? Who is going to take care of me if I'm half of the mortgage, bills, income etc... I want a man to be able to say "baby take all the time you need, get better, and don't worry about a THING I got this".

 

What if he got sick? What if he got into a car accident? How would you go about paying the bills?

[musemaj11]

I will ask you what I asked you in your other thread that you've ignored, why do you care so much what kind of life style a woman may want? Your choices don't have to be other people's choices.

As I said before, its within my right to have an opinion over anything and anyone.

 

Its just like when two women are gossiping. They dont necessarily care that much about the topic they are talking about. They are just exchanging their personal 'critiques' on the topic.

 

Musemaj..it's the internet..don't ya want to share your opinion on my question?

Im sorry, Im not a housewife with unlimited free time. I actually have errands to do in real life.

[FrustratedStandards]

A woman is more than just a cook and a maid and a man is more than a wallet so without these roles there is still plenty to desire in the opposite sex.

 

If somebody gets sick and needs support then fine but a healthy person should pull their own weight.

 

Like I said, these are certain qualities I look for in a man. I want a man who is financially stable and can support me should anything happen. He is more than a wallet. But think about it, if a man is everything that is exceptional, except he is broke (because he is lazy or doesn't like to work, not for acceptable reasons) then he would still struggle getting a woman. He can be a great man, and probably would be, but because he struggles so much with finances, its a big turn off.

 

Which brings me to my next point. I think half of what a woman looks for is financial stability in a man, and the other half is the rest of the qualities we want in a guy. The weight is the same unfortunately.

 

Who cares what you accept and don't accept in a woman staying home. Her life choices don't have to be yours. But you don't get to put on airs that your life choices are better. They aren't. You aren't a better person then her just because she wants a different kind of man and relationship. And your attack on her is completely unreasonable and immature.

 

Thank you DY I really appreciate that.

 

Ya know, I used to get in arguments about cleaning with my ex-wife. She'd run a load of dishes through the dish washer, do a load of laundry & act like she busted her ass all day.

 

errr....load of dishes - 5 mins.

Load of laundry - 5 mins.

 

yeah. ok.

Here I come, clean entire bathroom (including shower & toilet in 15 mins)

Sweep & mop all the hardwood floors in 30 mins.

 

I did more cleaning than her. I find that women tend to exaggerate the housework they do in order to make it seem like they actually did something.

 

You know how to clean a bathroom? You see, when I say clean the house, I mean the man doesn't know what a vacuum is.

 

You said that you're from Russia. If Russian men, and the Russian culture, are so chivalrous and supportive of women in comparison with American men, have you considered returning to Russia in order to meet a traditional Russian man? I'm not saying that in any kind of xenophobic "go back to where you came from" way. I'm not even American.

 

I can understand you wanting to stay in America if you had strong career ambitions. However, if your goal is to be a traditional housewife and Russian men are more supportive of this than American men are, why would you want to stay in America?

 

If it's a case of you more generally preferring the way things are in America than how they are in Russia, then I think you have to accept that the opinions, values and lifestyle choices of the men you meet are reflective - and part of - that culture you prefer.

 

You have a point. The thing is, I was brought here as a kid with my family. I had no choice in coming here, and if it was up to me, I might have stayed in Russian. My entire family is here, and my work is here (and I love my work more than anything else).

 

Although I have considered going back for a few years for that sole purpose, and I still might do that. But for work related reasons I can't do that right now.

 

The reason I like to pay is proba:confused:bly the same reason some women refuse to let a man pay. I like to carry my own weight and I don't like to feel some sort of obligation by accepting someone else to pay the check.

 

If I find a woman that insists on paying I eventually let her pay her way if I read she is uncomfortable.

 

I don't think this is an issue of culture.. This is mostly related to income. When I was young and made less money I was less enthusiastic about paying for everybody.

 

Now that I have a higher income paying the check is negligible to my financial situation. Furthermore, I like to pay.

 

But what if the woman makes more income? Is she the one to pay for all the dates? Men complain that they feel emasculated if a woman makes more, but then they also complain that they always pay for everything!

 

Exactly!

 

This is not about culture or ethnicity.

 

This is about income.

 

When I had less money I had great dates by simply having a picnic by the lake. In the end the important thing is to enjoy each other. During those days I would walk away from materialistic women.

 

Those days? Im curious.... since your income is more now, does that make you more okay with dating women who are materialistic as opposed to before when you couldn't offer as much?

 

What if he got sick? What if he got into a car accident? How would you go about paying the bills?

 

I'm glad you brought this up. And the truth is, he would have some finances saved up. Just because he makes all the money doesn't mean I have no idea about the bills or the banks accounts.

 

It's team work. Just because I do everything around the house and he makes the money, doesn't mean we don't communicate and know about each others lives. I would go to the hospital or clinic, make sure he is taken care of. Call his work, call the bank etc and do whatever I had to do make sure everything was okay. If he is a smart man (which is a necessity) then he would have money saved up in case of any emergency (has to flight out to see family, accidents, medicine, economy drop etc).

[phineas]

I will ask you what I asked you in your other thread that you've ignored, why do you care so much what kind of life style a woman may want? Your choices don't have to be other people's choices.

 

That is like asking why a woman cares so much to relay her lifestyle choice here. Oh wait.

If she can come here & do that why isn't he allowed to question it?

 

seems rather one-sided.

 

It's funny cause OP basically insulted the majority of single men in America by calling them stupid & ugly.

 

Personally I KNOW i am neither & I KNOW op would be lucky to sniff my boxers yet alone get a date with me.

 

My problem is much different. lack of confidence.

[FrustratedStandards]

That is like asking why a woman cares so much to relay her lifestyle choice here. Oh wait.

If she can come here & do that why isn't he allowed to question it?

 

seems rather one-sided.

 

It's funny cause OP basically insulted the majority of single men in America by calling them stupid & ugly.

 

Personally I KNOW i am neither & I KNOW op would be lucky to sniff my boxers yet alone get a date with me.

 

My problem is much different. lack of confidence.

 

Your lack of confidence (I don't know why if you say you are all those things) is the reason (if i am assuming correctly) that you can't find a woman.

 

Don't blame women with specific lifestyles or wants, if the man who possesses those qualities doesn't have the balls to present himself to them.

 

No offence.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

Musemaj11

As I said before, its within my right to have an opinion over anything and anyone.

 

Its just like when two women are gossiping. They dont necessarily care that much about the topic they are talking about. They are just exchanging their personal 'critiques' on the topic.

 

Yes, you can have an opinon on it. However, you started an entire thread about it so it's not just something you were sharing your opinion on. It's got a special place in your heart for whatever reason.

 

Not every woman wants a big important career. Not everyone is even cut out for a big important career. People are given different sets of skills. These women are not lesser people. Some are very content to take care of a home, to make a home, for a family. Whatever that family includes. Now, I'm sure there are housewives that do have more time on their hands but to group all housewives into that group, especially ones that don't have childen, is prejudice. I know for myself that I can always find something to do around the home. And there are even times when I've taken a week off from work to not go on vacation but just to take care of things around the home. And even then, not everything was ever done. When you own a home, the work is never done. So while a housewife certainly has a different set of tasks then someone that goes to work, it doesn't mean that they have unlimited "free time".

 

Im sorry, Im not a housewife with unlimited free time. I actually have errands to do in real life.

 

Sheesh, this comment is silliness. Everyone here has errands to do. My response was because I asked you the same question several times and you were posting after that, right away, in the same thread, and still didn't answer the question.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

Phineas:

That is like asking why a woman cares so much to relay her lifestyle choice here. Oh wait.

If she can come here & do that why isn't he allowed to question it? seems rather one-sided.

 

Muse seems to have a special place of dislike in her heart for housewives. I'm just curious why. It's not just a dislike for wanting to be a housewife herself. Which is totally fine. It's preconceived judgements and assumptions that aren't based out of truth.

 

It's funny cause OP basically insulted the majority of single men in America by calling them stupid & ugly.

 

She was insulting I agree. She also said American women couldn't cook or clean too.

 

Personally I KNOW i am neither & I KNOW op would be lucky to sniff my boxers yet alone get a date with me.

 

Your response isn't any more mature then hers was. And I doubt she has an interest in sniffing your boxres.

[Easyguy14]

I was on a date last night with this guy. We began talking about relationships and what we look for in a mate. Since we were being open and honest, I told him I wanted a man without kids, and one who can support me financially.

 

He called me a mean bitch and said that I am shallow for not considering a man who perhaps isn't wealthy, but has "lots of love". He said I only want a man for money. His best argument was "Men with money don't know how to love women. They just buy them diamonds and expensive things and think that's enough". He said that men without money are the better kind, because they aren't shallow.

 

I'm beginning to think that the only reason I ever questioned my standards was because every man I have ever met didn't meet them.

 

Why does every guy think that if a woman wants a man with money, that she ONLY wants the money and nothing else?

 

Im surprised you didn't end the date after being insulted. clearly his ego is too sensitive for him to react that way.

[FrustratedStandards]

She was insulting I agree. She also said American women couldn't cook or clean too.

 

Am I wrong to generalize when 80% of the time it's true? And by cook I don't mean they know how to boil eggs or make pasta. My 10 year old nephew can do that.

 

Cooking I mean actual dishes.

[Woggle]

I have nothing against women who are stay at home moms and men can be stay at home dads as well. Raising a kid is a very important and meaningful job. What rubbed me the wrong way about the OP is that she seemed to be doing the same thing that male chauvinists do in trying to limit a person's role based on gender. Marriage should be an equal partnership even if spouses might have different roles.

[FrustratedStandards]

I have nothing against women who are stay at home moms and men can be stay at home dads as well. Raising a kid is a very important and meaningful job. What rubbed me the wrong way about the OP is that she seemed to be doing the same thing that male chauvinists do in trying to limit a person's role based on gender. Marriage should be an equal partnership even if spouses might have different roles.

 

Limit? I didn't say he shouldn't or cant be other things. I simply said that financial stability should be one of his qualities.