What Exactly Does a Childless Housewife Do All Day?

[OnyxSnowfall]

What does it say about me for responding to him?

 

I hope it says that I still believe that if enough people try to show him how misinformed he can be, then maybe he will change.

 

I guess that would ruin Jane's point that his threads are pointless then, wouldn't it?

 

(I'm torn now... on the one hand, if something is blatantly perceived to be pointless, responding to it gives it some kind of "point" --- on the other, in this particular case, it's the kind of "point" that isn't going to be significant as in... changing someone's outlook).

 

And since I aimed that question to Jane, because she decided his thread(s) was(were) pointless... as if, pointing that out would stop him from posting them or something (who truly cares about something that's *pointless* to them --- apathy is representative of something someone finds "pointless", not a reaction)...

 

it doesn't really apply to you except... that you answered his thread without really "helping" him (since you are not childless).

[FitChick]

It doesn't matter what outsiders think. If it works for the couple, it's nobody's business.

[irc333]

Personally I know only a few housewives. Most women these days are career women regardless they have kids or not. And those few housewives that I know have at least one kid and unless they have a small kid or have plenty of kids, their lives are practically so easy and stress-free. Their busy hours are only a few hours around breakfast time and around dinner time. While for the rest of the day at the most they just do some small errands at their own pace.

 

So I really cant imagine how life is for a housewife who doesnt even have a single child. Life must be a bliss for them.

 

 

I met this one cute girl when I was in college, she was already married, barely 21, newly wed...and said he husband didn't want her to work.

 

Must be a southern thing. lol

[Els]

Men who want their wifes not to work tend to be selfish and chauvinistic and always want to be dominant and in charge. It's belittling to women for a man to actually want his wife to stay at home.

 

But yes Wannabe gentlemen with overly archaic views on marriages tend to be more common in places like the South. But it's a widespread phenomena.

 

I feel sorry for their wifes who have husbands who don't take women who want to work seriously.

 

I see what you mean and I agree with it for the most part.

 

But people will always WANT their partners to do things, and I don't see why he is any worse than the average man or woman. You WANT your partner to give you blowjobs. He WANTS his to be a housewife. Both are equal.

[zengirl]

If Pierre forced his wife to stay home and not work or twisted her arm, then he's controlling, but I didn't get that from what he said. It sounded like it just wasn't her idea. The two are different. Saying, "Here is the household image I would like" is not a controlling thing or a problem.

 

She has half of everything we built during the marriage. I never considered that we were two different people. We were a partnership and the money belonged to the partnership.

 

This is a good attitude to take with marriage in general, IMO.

[snug.bunny]

Well if she is unable to work, she can choose to become involved with volunteer activities/organizations.

[Els]

Yes I would want blowjobs or oral simply because I like giving oral to a woman, and I feel it's unjust if it's not returned.

 

I don't think those things are equal at all.

 

Theres a difference between wanting your wife to stay at home so you can have the financial upper hand and feel in charge and dominant....... And wanting a sex life where it's give and take, where the woman isn't prude who thinks your genitals are gross.

 

The first one is all about feeling in charge and having an upper hand.

 

The second one is just wanting sex to be give and take.

 

And if I met a woman and it turns out she doesn't like giving oral and has hang ups about sex, I would not try and convince her to do it or anything like that. I would just move on and explain to her that I can't be with a woman who is not as sexual as I am.

 

There are plenty of other reasons he could have wanted her to stay at home other than 'control'. I don't think this is about you wanting 'give and take' so much as wanting oral, period. What if the woman said she did not want to give oral and was not interested in receiving it either, but wanted to 'give and take' in other sexual ways? You would still not be happy. I still don't see how one is any better or worse than the other.

[stillafool]

My ex wife was a homemaker and I felt her role was invaluable to me.

 

She paid all the bills, hire contractors to work on the house, manage the finances, did all the shopping, kept the home in excellent condition, and was an amazing gourmet cook. She was a volunteer in the local hospital and at the end of the day made my life very easy.

 

She wanted to work, but in reality there was no need for her to do so. So I was the one that asked her to stay home.

 

This is me exactly. You can add to that I also do a daily check on both of our aging parents and taking them to doctors appts., shopping, paying their bills and such. I am a fanatic about a clean house, beautiful garden, etc. My husband wouldn't want it any other way and I love being home. I'm busy from the time I get up in the morning until my husband gets home.

[zengirl]

But for what reasons would a man want it if it's not for having the financial upper hand and being in charge? I honestly can't see any other reasons.

 

Male or female, there are a lot of benefits to the party who works to have someone at home full-time. Usually, it takes a lot of the house/errand/schedule/kid stuff off the plate of the working person, allowing him (or her!) to focus on building a career, and it also cultivates a specific home environment that may be desired.

 

I never want to be a housewife, and as a person working in nonprofit cannot ever envision affording a househusband, but there are benefits to both sides of the arrangement that aren't necessarily about ego or control. I don't know what it was in Pierre's case, but I wouldn't jump to conclusions.

 

Since his wife wanted to work, even though he splits everything up with her if they part ways. He has still done her a disservice because it will be harder for her to get work if she hasn't been apart of the workforce for several years.

 

This is true. And in her case, I would say she's entitled alimony. But I don't know the details of their situation or divorce.

[Els]

Such as? I would understand if there were children, otherwise no there really isn't any other valid reasons.

 

Maybe he feels he alone is sufficient income for the two of them and would like to come back to a clean house and cooked food.

Maybe he prefers traditional gender dynamics.

 

Yes because if a woman doesn't give oral it suggests she has hang ups about sex and think male genitalia is gross and whatever. I'd rather not be with a woman who has hang ups about sex.

You like to assume a lot about people, don't you? :/ There are plenty of reasons a woman might not want to give oral as well. How about TMJ, the husband's penis is too large to fit comfortably, she gets no pleasure out of it, etc?

 

It's different because for a woman to stay at home, unless theres children can actually be harmful for the woman because it can be harder for her to get work later and it puts the man in a power position.

 

Oral sex in a relationship isn't harmful, it's more or less normal and it has nothing to do with being in control or having power(if both do it to eachother).

Heh, I know plenty of women who would rather be a housewife than have to give regular BJs.

 

Look, I'm not saying your preferences are not valid. Just please stop assuming that they are the only valid ones. The wife of the poster you quoted was perfectly able to step away and say, "No," to his preferences, just as any girl has the right to say, "No," to yours. You assuming that he 'forced' her is like me saying that you coerced yours into giving you oral sex, just because you stated your preferences to your woman, just as he did.

[Els]

So she should sacrifice her future career just for that?

 

I'm really not sure where you're getting the coercion element here. AFAIK, Pierre said he told his wife he preferred a SAHM and she agreed and did a fantastic job of it. Would you like to point this out to me?

 

Well I do get pleasure from giving oral to a woman. So I just can't be with a woman who doesn't feel the same about giving oral back. That would be unfair.

 

The give and take dynamic of a breadwinner and SAHM are very similar.

 

Giving oral to a man is really that horrible? Most men as far as I know like giving oral to a woman. They don't do it just to please her they do it because they themselves genuinly like giving it.

 

*shrugs* Beats me. I just know people who would prefer it, some of them on this board as well. I personally would enjoy both at the right time.

 

I'm not assuming he forced her. She might very well have been sceptical but later changed her mind.

 

I am however suspicious about the motives of wanting a wife to stay at home unless theres children.

 

It gives the man control and dominance so its no wonder some men would like the wife to stay at home.

 

Those traditonal archaic views on women and marriage is belittling to women.

 

You might want to ask the SAHMs here if they feel their man is being controlling in their relationship dynamic. IMO men and women both have the rights to choose the sort of dynamic and relationship they want. THAT is the point of feminism. True feminism does not say that 'it is belittling for a woman to stay at home', but rather that each adult female is entitled to make her choice without being slighted for it.

 

It just sounds to me that Pierre and his wife exercised their rights, personally.

[Els]

Plenty of ways to overcome the 'no money' situation. For one, if a guy were to request me to be a SAHM, I would agree, on proviso that all income is stored in a shared account under both of our names. Should divorce occur, the funds will be split equally. That pretty much solves the problem.

 

Plenty of 'normal men' in the olden times liked that. They liked, among other things, the feeling of 'taking care of a woman so she does not need to toil outside the house' and being the breadwinner. In modern times, things have gotten better because if a woman disagrees with that, she is free to not accept. So when such an agreement is entered into, no one is being 'abused' - they are there of their own free will.

 

I'm sure there are men who want this because they truly do want to be controlling and to remove a woman's independence, but you need to stop assuming people's motives. Not everyone thinks the same way as you.

[OnyxSnowfall]

Those traditonal archaic views on women and marriage is belittling to women.

 

It's only belittling to the women who perceive it that way --- there are still women who do not perceive it that way. I don't know if you can "speak" for them...

 

I personally don't consider it "belittling"...

[FitChick]

Brian, what about the men who demand that their wives work even though they could survive quite well on his income? What if the wives don't want to keep working but would rather be housewives? Aren't the husbands being controlling and domineering in that respect?

 

Because you can't seem to "hear" what we are saying, I wonder about your home life growing up since you seem so invested in your personal experience being The Truth instead of one possible Truth of many.

 

There are plenty of working women, Gloria Steinem for one (or me!), who wish they had a "wife" to clean the house, do all the errands, have a nice hot breakfast ready for them in the morning and a lovely dinner waiting for them when they got home. So it's not unreasonable that a man would want those things as well.

 

Brian, you seem quite controlling and domineering yourself since you would never allow women to have a choice if you were King.

[Woggle]

I have nothing against stay at home women but I would never want to be married to one. If she can find a way to make money without working then fine but I will not be the sole breadwinner.

[Duckduckgoose]

Well, they could play online videogames like Rift or World of Warcraft, after the house was clean, all the chores were done, groceries bought, etc.

 

Being a SAHM is no picnic, even though people make it out to be one. Kids are a full time job, and cleaning up after them, providing meals, entertainment, and maintaining friendships is NOT easy.

 

I wouldn't know about that from firsthand experience because I don't have kids, but I have SAHM friends. They often don't feel appreciated because people think they are lazy and do nothing all day.

 

I WAS however unemployed for almost 2 years through no fault of my own (was looking for jobs like mad, I have a very viable degree but the economy was ****), and as an intelligent, active, and social person I was going NUTS feeling unproductive. I did play World of Warcraft quite a bit to burn the time, get some socialization, and keep my mind busy. Nevermind the almost habitual cleaning of everything just cause I was going nuts.

 

I still have that clean-freak thing going on too, even though I have a job now.

[OnyxSnowfall]

Being a SAHM is no picnic, even though people make it out to be one. Kids are a full time job, and cleaning up after them, providing meals, entertainment, and maintaining friendships is NOT easy.

 

this thread is about being a CHILDLESS housewife...

 

..........

[thatone]

But for what reasons would a man want it if it's not for having the financial upper hand and being in charge? I honestly can't see any other reasons.

 

It's one thing if the wife says she want to stay at home, then yes the man should agree to support her decision. But I don't feel it's the husbands business to try and convince the wife to do it if it wasn't her idea in the first place.

 

Maybe Pierre is a good guy, I really don't know.

 

But I think it's a bad attitude in general to actually want your wife to stay at home, unless there's children(which it didn't seem to be in Pierre's situation). It just comes off as you're trying to gain an upper hand.

 

Since his wife wanted to work, even though he splits everything up with her if they part ways. He has still done her a disservice because it will be harder for her to get work if she hasn't been apart of the workforce for several years.

 

She has done him a favor for staying at home. He has done her a disservice for persuading her to do it. Men who want their wifes to stay at home don't seem to realise this and infact see it as the opposite. They think "I'm so great, I took care of her and supported her financially"... really thats BS.

 

wait a minute. you want sexual equality but in everything else it's supposed to be "yes dear"?

 

bullsh*t. everything is a two way street. relationships aren't one person saying what they want and the other person giving it to them. it's both people agreeing on what they want.

 

as for the reasons why?

 

how about "if you work a job you will put us in a higher tax bracket and everything you earn will be paid to the IRS, so you will be spending 8-10 hours of your day working for other people for free".

 

that's a real possibility for me.

[Els]

Well, they could play online videogames like Rift or World of Warcraft, after the house was clean, all the chores were done, groceries bought, etc.

 

Being a SAHM is no picnic, even though people make it out to be one. Kids are a full time job, and cleaning up after them, providing meals, entertainment, and maintaining friendships is NOT easy.

 

I wouldn't know about that from firsthand experience because I don't have kids, but I have SAHM friends. They often don't feel appreciated because people think they are lazy and do nothing all day.

 

I WAS however unemployed for almost 2 years through no fault of my own (was looking for jobs like mad, I have a very viable degree but the economy was ****), and as an intelligent, active, and social person I was going NUTS feeling unproductive. I did play World of Warcraft quite a bit to burn the time, get some socialization, and keep my mind busy. Nevermind the almost habitual cleaning of everything just cause I was going nuts.

 

I still have that clean-freak thing going on too, even though I have a job now.

 

Speaking for myself, I don't feel entitled to be supported to stay at home, but I would be really happy to if the guy was happy to do it for whatever reason. It doesn't necessarily mean boredom. I don't think I've ever been bored on a holiday in my life, there are so many new things to learn, so many new skills to pick up, so many hobbies to indulge in.

 

When I first moved to be with bf and could not work, I woke up at a nice comfortable time of 10am, prepared and ate lunch, then took a few hours to go on walks/hikes/hop on a random bus and explore a random place. After that I'd do errands/chores/grocery shopping, look up new recipes, cook dinner for us, clean up, and we'd spend time together til he falls asleep. Few hours of personal time to read/play games/surf/chat etc, then bedtime for me too. I was also taking up photography, learning to code and reading a lot of random stuff on wikipedia in addition to all that. Rinse and repeat.

 

Even on the nights I could not see him, I did not really get bored - a little lonely, since I'd left all my friends behind, but there was just somehow something new to do or try or learn all the time. If I had had friends then, that would have taken time as well. If we had had our own home, I would have taken up gardening and home decor probably. And there were still so many things I did not accomplish during that 8 month period. It was enjoyable, personally.

Edited October 9, 2011 by Elswyth

[thatone]

What on earth are you on about? I don't want anything to be "yes dear". Don't put words in my mouth. Read my posts.

 

i did, they're mostly rambling stereotypes.

 

you said you wanted give/take and equality sexually, but any man who would suggest that his wife not work is automatically evil for doing so.

[thatone]

no, actually, there are other reasons. when i worked in hotels i interviewed women with law degrees, MBAs, CPAs, etc. they had resumes a mile long that included management positions in major corporations.

 

why were they applying for a job to be a waitress then?

 

because they got tired of being alone, and they had to choose between a job that would consume all of their time and constantly move them from location to location, or spending time with their husbands.

 

there's nothing wrong with that.

[Els]

I think the problem here is that you guys are assuming it's one or the other. Either the woman absolutely WANTS it, or she was evilly deprived of it.

 

In truth, there is a huge spectrum between the two. I would agree that a man who 'forces' his wife to stay at home is a douchebag, but the onus is still on the woman to agree. An uncle of mine made it clear that he wanted his wife to drop out of school if he were to consider marriage with her, and she was desperate enough to agree - I call that a douchebag, but I still think she was dumb herself for agreeing, because when it came down to it it was still her decision.

 

However, that is the extreme of the spectrum. For all you know Pierre and his wife's exchange was that the wife only wanted to work because she felt bad for making the husband support her, and he reassured her it wasn't so. We don't know enough to judge, and certainly not enough to make sweeping statements.

[thatone]

yeah, that's precisely it. you see it more with highly successful people actually.

 

i have a cousin that went through this. she's a CPA. went out of college straight to work for arthur andersen (before enron brought them down), living on her own in a high class area on the west coast, and life was grand. until she met the guy she's married to now. he was an attorney, and took over a friend/client's business when that business was ready to go public. he's the CEO, the guy who started it is the chairman, they run it together. she quit her career and stayed home for a few years until their kids were in school, then went back to work as the auditor for the city sales tax office where they live, which is quite a meager 'job' compared to what she was capable of before.

 

but why is that so terrible? if two people have 60 hour a week jobs what are they supposed to do, live their marriage like every night is a one night stand? come home, shower, f*ck, bitch about work, and go to sleep? that's not much of a relationship, nevermind marriage.