Affairs are outside the box

[FelicityShot]

A lot of control given up in your statements: "they happen", "in some way necessary". Laws can be enforced on food safety, saving many lives, or they can not be enforced due to laziness, greed, neglect and people die. One can say, oh, it's necessary for people to die in order to remind others not to be lazy, greedy, neglectful. Even the people whose laziness or greed caused the deaths can say this. Some people don't like to take responsibility for their actions and decisions. However, I find life is most fulfilling if one embraces it in its entirety and accepts the control we do have. Sometimes people don't want to acknowledge that control because they don't fully accept their own decisions.

 

My A was a decision, I own it. I desired and loved and wanted, so I decided to follow that. I was in control. You think my decision was poor, but I see it differently.

 

I think we are at an impasse.

[woinlove]

Some elements of my A were extremely good. Which is quite unlike the negative experiences you list. So I'm not quite sure how to answer you. I didn't just benefit from the transformation, but also from the experience itself.

 

As others have pointed out, what distinguishes an A from other R's is the deception. Was the good associated with the deception or in spite of it? In your opinion, would it have been better, worse or the same had the relationship between the two of you lived in an environment of openness and honesty for all concerned?

[FelicityShot]

As others have pointed out, what distinguishes an A from other R's is the deception. Was the good associated with the deception or in spite of it? In your opinion, would it have been better, worse or the same had the relationship between the two of you lived in an environment of openness and honesty for all concerned?

 

In spite of it, for sure.

 

The R couldn't fully develop in that environment, so yes it would have been better to take it into the open. I was happy to do this, xAP was not. It ended.

[MissBee]

Some elements of my A were extremely good. Which is quite unlike the negative experiences you list. So I'm not quite sure how to answer you. I didn't just benefit from the transformation, but also from the experience itself.

 

What I meant was, when you made the thread, your initial post and your topic "Affairs are out of the box" what was the point you were trying to bring across about affairs? My suggestion or interpretation was that you're saying As, like any other experience, can spark positive transformation? I wanted to clarify if that's what you meant and if not...just what in a nut shell would you say would be your take home point in all of this? Hope that's clearer

[spice4life]

I

 

You don't have to explain the fear of abandonment to me Felicity because I have it. In spades. And for good reason, as I got passed around a lot as a child. I have struggled with this fear my whole adult life and you are not convincing me that the way out is to go get myself abandoned because I have already done that many times over.That just doesn't make sense. If I had a fear of being mugged should I go get myself mugged? I'm not being daft. I do believe that people can take a bad situation and use it to better themselves but I don't think that by doing so this actually makes the bad situation a good event.

 

If you met me now you would never guess that I have an intense fear of abandonment. I am strong, happy and at peace. I feel so good that even I can sometimes believe that this fear is no longer a problem for me. But heres the thing...I'm single. There is no threat of abandonment looming over me so I have no reason to be fearful of it, but I know better than to think that this problem has just magically disappeared. It's why I'm choosing to be single and working hard on my problems right now. Wish I had done this years ago as I think it's a far better approach than choosing bad behaviour.

 

Personally, I can identify with what both you and felicityshot are saying about abandonment. I too was abandoned in my A after I told him that I was in love with him. I won't go into the details of what immediately followed because it was the most excruciating love pain I have ever felt in my life. But, that experience drove me into therapy where I discovered a childhood trauma was the core of the issue. I have since dealt with it (2 years of therapy later) and find myself in where you are alexandria.

 

Now, I find myself in a place, where I am not attracted to the guys who are capable of triggering the abandonment issues. It's interesting...before that is all I was attracted to. Since I have addressed the problem, within myself, those type of men aren't even on the radar anymore. I am instead, attracted to men who are balanced and know exactly who they are and what they want.

 

However, I can honestly say that falling in love with xMM was the catalyst that pushed me to finally face what ailed me once and for all. I no longer fear falling in love. Here is the kicker though...I never knew I had that fear until I uncovered it in therapy. The fear skewed my views on love and relationships and was the unconscious motivation behind my actions. My views aren't skewed anymore...thank goodness!

 

So yeah, I understand both points. Good stuff!!!

 

PS- felicityshot, have you ever mourned the loss of your MM? Meaning, allowed yourself to be angry with him and yourself for how it all turned out? They are very normal and necessary feelings on the journey through to the other side.

[woinlove]

My A was a decision, I own it. I desired and loved and wanted, so I decided to follow that. I was in control. You think my decision was poor, but I see it differently.

 

I think we are at an impasse.

 

But your words suggest otherwise. I thought your words conveyed a passiveness towards affairs, rather than a choice, but I'll accept that was not your intent. But, again, you say your decision was not poor, perhaps good even, and yet you say affairs which go on too long are not good and it is not clear you want to keep choosing affairs. As I've said, I choose openness and honesty in my own M, and hope to keep choosing that for my entire life. That's a good choice I want to keep making. Your choice of an affair seems much more qualified. If it isn't good for the deception to continue on too long, how long can it continue and still be on the good side? Would it have been even better had the deception been of shorter duration?

[FelicityShot]

What I meant was, when you made the thread, your initial post and your topic "Affairs are out of the box" what was the point you were trying to bring across about affairs? My suggestion or interpretation was that you're saying As, like any other experience, can spark positive transformation? I wanted to clarify if that's what you meant and if not...just what in a nut shell would you say would be your take home point in all of this? Hope that's clearer

 

Hmm - not sure there is a nutshell point. More a cluster of nuts!

 

It is about getting rid of polarity thinking in relation to how we conceive of As. They are not 'good' or 'bad'. I don't think it is helpful for people in recovery to be bitter against WS, OW/OM, BSs, or to feel guilt-ridden or to induce a state of guilt in a partner who has been involved in an EMR.

 

Your suggestion is certainly part of the equation in how I see it.

[MissBee]

Personally, I can identify with what both you and felicityshot are saying about abandonment. I too was abandoned in my A after I told him that I was in love with him. I won't go into the details of what immediately followed because it was the most excruciating love pain I have ever felt in my life. But, that experience drove me into therapy where I discovered a childhood trauma was the core of the issue. I have since dealt with it (2 years of therapy later) and find myself in where you are alexandria.

 

Now, I find myself in a place, where I am not attracted to the guys who are capable of triggering the abandonment issues. It's interesting...before that is all I was attracted to. Since I have addressed the problem, within myself, those type of men aren't even on the radar anymore. I am instead, attracted to men who are balanced and know exactly who they are and what they want.

 

However, I can honestly say that falling in love with xMM was the catalyst that pushed me to finally face what ailed me once and for all. I no longer fear falling in love. Here is the kicker though...I never knew I had that fear until I uncovered it in therapy. The fear skewed my views on love and relationships and was the unconscious motivation behind my actions. My views aren't skewed anymore...thank goodness!

 

So yeah, I understand both points. Good stuff!!!

 

PS- felicityshot, have you ever mourned the loss of your MM? Meaning, allowed yourself to be angry with him and yourself for how it all turned out? They are very normal and necessary feelings on the journey through to the other side.

 

Great question!

 

I can also relate, except I still have much work to do in undoing those unconscious motivations that make me unavailable and likewise attract those who are as well. The point about not realizing is very true and I have said this more than once on here that just because someone is saying they're doing something for X reason, doesn't mean that is the actual reason and it is VERY possible that they are behaving in subconsciously motivated ways that they themselves do not realize, and it is only upon doing self-work and introspection can one really know this.

 

My A did not bring forth that type of growth for me; however, my last relationship opened me up to great pain, then the dalliance I had after really brought it full circle what my own issues were. Before I had NEVER thought I had an issue. I do notice a difference in those whom I attract now and am a lot more observant of my own choices and actions and can point out to myself when they are not so good...but I still have some way to go in completely being available, releasing my fear of abandonment/rejection and eliminating the men who will almost guarantee that from off my radar.

[spice4life]

Personally, I can identify with what both you and felicityshot are saying about abandonment. I too was abandoned in my A after I told him that I was in love with him. I won't go into the details of what immediately followed because it was the most excruciating love pain I have ever felt in my life. But, that experience drove me into therapy where I discovered a childhood trauma was the core of the issue. I have since dealt with it (2 years of therapy later) and find myself in where you are alexandria.

 

Now, I find myself in a place, where I am not attracted to the guys who are capable of triggering the abandonment issues. It's interesting...before that is all I was attracted to. Since I have addressed the problem, within myself, those type of men aren't even on the radar anymore. I am instead, attracted to men who are balanced and know exactly who they are and what they want.

 

However, I can honestly say that falling in love with xMM was the catalyst that pushed me to finally face what ailed me once and for all. I no longer fear falling in love. Here is the kicker though...I never knew I had that fear until I uncovered it in therapy. The fear skewed my views on love and relationships and was the unconscious motivation behind my actions. My views aren't skewed anymore...thank goodness!

 

So yeah, I understand both points. Good stuff!!!

 

PS- felicityshot, have you ever mourned the loss of your MM? Meaning, allowed yourself to be angry with him and yourself for how it all turned out? They are very normal and necessary feelings on the journey through to the other side.

 

I would like to add that healing that trauma has helped me see that the kind of man I will end up with, will be one who doesn't trigger the abandonment issues. He will be one who calms those fears and one who doesn't use them to manipulate me.

[FelicityShot]

But your words suggest otherwise. I thought your words conveyed a passiveness towards affairs, rather than a choice, but I'll accept that was not your intent. But, again, you say your decision was not poor, perhaps good even, and yet you say affairs which go on too long are not good and it is not clear you want to keep choosing affairs. As I've said, I choose openness and honesty in my own M, and hope to keep choosing that for my entire life. That's a good choice I want to keep making. Your choice of an affair seems much more qualified. If it isn't good for the deception to continue on too long, how long can it continue and still be on the good side? Would it have been even better had the deception been of shorter duration?

 

Re bolded, yes it would. For me and xH. I am not sure for xAP though. It was for him not me it went on as long as it did - 9 months. I would have shouted from the rooftops, but he is an altogether more circumspect type. Perhaps he didn't love me as much, or perhaps he didn't trust it. Anyway, he didn't accept he had fallen in love until 7 months had gone by - and it was on and off during those 7 months.

 

I agree it feels good to choose openness and honesty. That is usually how I operate too. For this I made an exception.

[MissBee]

Hmm - not sure there is a nutshell point. More a cluster of nuts!

 

It is about getting rid of polarity thinking in relation to how we conceive of As. They are not 'good' or 'bad'. I don't think it is helpful for people in recovery to be bitter against WS, OW/OM, BSs, or to feel guilt-ridden or to induce a state of guilt in a partner who has been involved in an EMR.

 

Your suggestion is certainly part of the equation in how I see it.

 

Okay I see.

 

I do not think As are value neutral and I think most wouldn't think that. It's not even about a thought, but surely, I'd say feeling betrayed by someone evokes feelings that are negative and hurtful that don't require any thinking...

 

Being bitter surely evolves from hurt and while it isn't helpful, it is a feeling that naturally arises that has to be dealt with. I do not think there is ANY way to experience betrayal (whether an A, friendship, family member etc) and be completely neutral and not ascribe negative emotions to it.

 

I do think that it serves us well to be able to process, work through and have different perspectives on our emotions and situations but I do wonder where one draws the line between being responsible, being honest, caring about others, being forthright and then aiming to not feel bad about things and seeing things as neither good or bad. Should one feel guilty and be bitter all their life? No. But you're proposing what seems to be that a spouse should not see an affair as good or bad, they shouldn't be bitter, no one in the equation should feel guilty and then I wonder....okay that's not possible. I think As are fraught with emotion and drama for a reason and it can be transformational to work through these emotions versus trying to be neutral.

[FelicityShot]

PS- felicityshot, have you ever mourned the loss of your MM? Meaning, allowed yourself to be angry with him and yourself for how it all turned out? They are very normal and necessary feelings on the journey through to the other side.

 

It's great you have worked through it. I have no idea who I might attract in the future, but I have my eyes open, and a heart which can love. I seem to have always attracted good friends.

 

In answer to your question HELL YES! I was a wreck before I got to here. I still grieve a little, but it is blame free for him and myself. I miss him. That's OK.

[woinlove]

Hmm - not sure there is a nutshell point. More a cluster of nuts!

 

It is about getting rid of polarity thinking in relation to how we conceive of As. They are not 'good' or 'bad'. I don't think it is helpful for people in recovery to be bitter against WS, OW/OM, BSs, or to feel guilt-ridden or to induce a state of guilt in a partner who has been involved in an EMR.

 

Your suggestion is certainly part of the equation in how I see it.

 

From your more recent posts on this thead, it doesn't seem like there is that much distance between your own views and the "average" LS poster here. I find the bitter part is discussed more than displayed here. And guilt in itself is not bad and can lead to very positive, personal transformations. To stay in a state of guilt indefinitely though is bad. Don't see much of that here.

 

While a broad spectrum of views are represented here, I think it is fair to say that the majority do advise people who are not already in an A to not enter one, but to choose some other option instead. For those who are in an A, the advice leans toward ending it either by ending the R or by moving it to an R out in the open. Personally, I feel that when one is in doubt about an intimate R, kindness, openness and honesty are typically good things to strive for.

 

I'm not sure if you would actually advice someone to go for an A or to stay in one. If you would, that voice is sometimes heard here and there is room for more -- even though some of us feel that could be leading posters and others into avoidable pain and we will tell them so. I think LS can accommodate a lot of different perspectives and we can't protect all posters from advice which we think might cause pain if followed. We each give our perspective or arguments, and, ultimately, everyone has to decide for themselves what to do or not do.

Edited October 9, 2011 by woinlove

[spice4life]

Great question!

I do notice a difference in those whom I attract now and am a lot more observant of my own choices and actions and can point out to myself when they are not so good...but I still have some way to go in completely being available, releasing my fear of abandonment/rejection and eliminating the men who will almost guarantee that from off my radar.

 

Thanks MissBee.

 

I should probably add that, like alexandria, I have not tested this theory yet. I am single and haven't put my toe into the dating arena with this new set of eyes. I think that fear transferred to a fear of dating! Just kidding. Actually, I'm not ready to date yet. I am just beginning to enjoy and appreciate my life without attachments. Plus, I have a few things I want to take care of first before I start a round of "meeting for coffee." I do know that the "type" I am attracted to now are a far cry from what I used to like. I used to find the guy who was "different" or "excentric" (sp?) appealing...now I view that as a HUGE red flag!

[alexandria35]

i

Personally, I can identify with what both you and felicityshot are saying about abandonment. I too was abandoned in my A after I told him that I was in love with him. I won't go into the details of what immediately followed because it was the most excruciating love pain I have ever felt in my life. But, that experience drove me into therapy where I discovered a childhood trauma was the core of the issue. I have since dealt with it (2 years of therapy later) and find myself in where you are alexandria.

 

Now, I find myself in a place, where I am not attracted to the guys who are capable of triggering the abandonment issues. It's interesting...before that is all I was attracted to. Since I have addressed the problem, within myself, those type of men aren't even on the radar anymore. I am instead, attracted to men who are balanced and know exactly who they are and what they want.

 

However, I can honestly say that falling in love with xMM was the catalyst that pushed me to finally face what ailed me once and for all. I no longer fear falling in love. Here is the kicker though...I never knew I had that fear until I uncovered it in therapy. The fear skewed my views on love and relationships and was the unconscious motivation behind my actions. My views aren't skewed anymore...thank goodness!

 

So yeah, I understand both points. Good stuff!!!

 

PS- felicityshot, have you ever mourned the loss of your MM? Meaning, allowed yourself to be angry with him and yourself for how it all turned out? They are very normal and necessary feelings on the journey through to the other side.

 

I completely understand what you are saying Spice. The pain caused by the ending of your affair is what forced you to face your fear by spending a couple of years in thereapy. I totally get that and understand that a painful experience can lead us to take the necessary steps to heal ourselves and ensure that we don't continue to put ourselves in painful situations. Felicity doesn't seem to be saying that she actually did any of the hard work in getting over her fear of abandonment. Apparently just being abandoned by her affair partner is what cured her. I don't get that. Makes me wonder if she really had a fear of abandonment or understands the dynamics of abandonment fears.

 

I too am no longer remotely attracted to the same type of guy and I will never be again because I have changed at my core. Here I want to say that the men I have loved in my past were not neccesarily bad guys but they were just struggling with their own pain and issues as much as I was. They were as lost as I was. The blind leading the blind so to speak. I reached a point where I had just had enough pain and decided no more. I also realized that I wasn't going to get better by having yet more painful relationships and that those relationships were just feeding my problems.

[spice4life]

From your more recent posts on this thead, it doesn't seem like there is that much distance between your own views and the "average" LS poster here. I find the bitter part is discussed more than displayed here. And guilt in itself is not bad and can lead to very positive, personal transformations. To stay in a state of guilt indefinitely though is bad. Don't see much of that here.

 

While a broad spectrum of views are represented here, I think it is fair to say that the majority do advise people who are not already in an A to not enter one, but to choose some other option instead. For those who are in an A, the advice leans toward ending it either by ending the R or by moving it to an R out in the open. Personally, I feel that when one is in doubt about an intimate R, kindness, openness and honesty are typically good things to strive for.

 

I'm not sure if you would actually advice someone to go for an A or to stay in one. If you would, that voice is sometimes heard here and there is room for more -- even though some of us feel that could be leading posters and others into avoidable pain and we will tell them so. I think LS can accommodate a lot of different perspectives and we can't protect all posters from advice which we think might cause pain if followed. We each give our perspective or arguments, and, ultimately, everyone has to decide for themselves what to do or not do.

 

Excellent post woinlove! This forum is definitely a place where one can discuss all sides of the issues even though the percentage of single OW/OM's posting is much higher than other forums. I like that BS/MP/OW/OM's can all join in on the conversation. It's a very therapeutic place IMHO. It brings forth a lot of really great insights.

[MissBee]

Thanks MissBee.

 

I should probably add that, like alexandria, I have not tested this theory yet. I am single and haven't put my toe into the dating arena with this new set of eyes. I think that fear transferred to a fear of dating! Just kidding. Actually, I'm not ready to date yet. I am just beginning to enjoy and appreciate my life without attachments. Plus, I have a few things I want to take care of first before I start a round of "meeting for coffee." I do know that the "type" I am attracted to now are a far cry from what I used to like. I used to find the guy who was "different" or "excentric" (sp?) appealing...now I view that as a HUGE red flag!

 

Girrllll....I so know what you mean!

 

I am excited to date with my "new eyes" and I too have began to question whether or not men I used to claim to not be attracted to, were because of dysfunctional reasons and not because they were indeed unsuitable candidates (as clearly most of those whom I was so smitten with and thought were the bee's knees...were in fact not so suitable...hmmm) . But my new dating style is one that is very slow and one in which I am very observant of my thoughts, feelings, reactions and their behavior. I think before I was full speed ahead believing that the ultimate outcome of dating was I needed to end up with them and now I see dating as a discovery in which I do not need to attach myself or start planning our future immediately but I can truly explore and LEARN about myself, about them and whether or not they are a good match for me to give my heart and body too in an exclusive, possibly LTR scenario.

 

 

It is exciting and scary; scary in that I don't want to feel crushed if I feel like I'm still making poor choices and feeling like OMG Have you not learned MissBee???!!! But exciting in that if I do realize I am still making poor choices, I am much better at self-correcting and am a lot more able now to say "Hmmm....I guess I have more work to do". Being AWARE in and of itself is BEAUTIFUL It's not to say you will be perfect and never err but unlike before where I made poor choice after poor choice and had no clue how to stop it or that it was even poor and it was my doing...now I am capable of stopping myself mid-decision and actually reflect and can be an agent in my own life choices. It's a great thing. We're not perfect but it's that process of authentically admitting AND working through it that makes the difference versus continuing blissfully ignorant, in denial or simply refusing to do better.

[xxoo]

Now, I find myself in a place, where I am not attracted to the guys who are capable of triggering the abandonment issues. It's interesting...before that is all I was attracted to. Since I have addressed the problem, within myself, those type of men aren't even on the radar anymore. I am instead, attracted to men who are balanced and know exactly who they are and what they want.

 

What a fantastic breakthrough! Happy for you!!

[FelicityShot]

Okay I see.

 

I do not think As are value neutral and I think most wouldn't think that. It's not even about a thought, but surely, I'd say feeling betrayed by someone evokes feelings that are negative and hurtful that don't require any thinking...

 

Being bitter surely evolves from hurt and while it isn't helpful, it is a feeling that naturally arises that has to be dealt with. I do not think there is ANY way to experience betrayal (whether an A, friendship, family member etc) and be completely neutral and not ascribe negative emotions to it.

 

I do think that it serves us well to be able to process, work through and have different perspectives on our emotions and situations but I do wonder where one draws the line between being responsible, being honest, caring about others, being forthright and then aiming to not feel bad about things and seeing things as neither good or bad. Should one feel guilty and be bitter all their life? No. But you're proposing what seems to be that a spouse should not see an affair as good or bad, they shouldn't be bitter, no one in the equation should feel guilty and then I wonder....okay that's not possible. I think As are fraught with emotion and drama for a reason and it can be transformational to work through these emotions versus trying to be neutral.

 

Betrayal is the worst element of an A. There will be negative emotions. I am not sure why it is so overwhelming, but I have seen first hand it is.

 

When I have been betrayed, I didn't like it, but it didn't really affect me. They were not cases where my partner was considering leaving the R. I just thought 'oh, you're capable of that. I know you better. I know something about your weakness for deceit and sex and ego'. These were not love A betrayals.

 

I think I understand people's weakness for these things. I have been weak myself sometimes.

 

But it is just one element. For the BS it is possibly the major one. For me as BS it wasn't. The major one was about the condition of the feelings we had for one another, and the realisation that the partner was capable of being wayward. I didn't really feel betrayed I suppose. I just thought, right you can betray. It was on him, not in me.

 

I realise this is not the way many people feel in this situation.

[xxoo]

When I have been betrayed, I didn't like it, but it didn't really affect me. They were not cases where my partner was considering leaving the R. I just thought 'oh, you're capable of that. I know you better. I know something about your weakness for deceit and sex and ego'. These were not love A betrayals.

 

I think I understand people's weakness for these things. I have been weak myself sometimes.

 

But it is just one element. For the BS it is possibly the major one. For me as BS it wasn't. The major one was about the condition of the feelings we had for one another, and the realisation that the partner was capable of being wayward. I didn't really feel betrayed I suppose. I just thought, right you can betray. It was on him, not in me.

 

I realise this is not the way many people feel in this situation.

 

But was this was while you were still in a place of abandonment fear, and had married without allowing yourself to fully fall in love?

 

Imagine how different the pain would be if this happened within a relationship that had begun with deep love, and slowly, painfully changed.

[FelicityShot]

i

 

Apparently just being abandoned by her affair partner is what cured her. I don't get that. Makes me wonder if she really had a fear of abandonment or understands the dynamics of abandonment fears.

 

 

Yeah, it was all a piece of cake

[spice4life]

i

 

I too am no longer remotely attracted to the same type of guy and I will never be again because I have changed at my core. Here I want to say that the men I have loved in my past were not neccesarily bad guys but they were just struggling with their own pain and issues as much as I was. They were as lost as I was. The blind leading the blind so to speak. I reached a point where I had just had enough pain and decided no more. I also realized that I wasn't going to get better by having yet more painful relationships and that those relationships were just feeding my problems.

 

Oh I agree! They were not bad guys at all - they were definitely going through their own struggles just as I was. I think this is where the "Law of Attraction" comes into play. It's an internal karma in a sense. When we are carrying around hidden "hurts," we continue to attract the kind of people who press those buttons. It will continue to happen until it finally bubbles to surface and you can't ignore it anymore. That is when one usually plops their rearend into therapy saying "okay, I've had enough...what's up with this!?"

[FelicityShot]

But was this was while you were still in a place of abandonment fear, and had married without allowing yourself to fully fall in love?

 

Imagine how different the pain would be if this happened within a relationship that had begun with deep love, and slowly, painfully changed.

 

Yes, I see this possibility. It is an unknown for me. That might hit a whole lot harder. I am just not sure, as I have changed so much in recent months and am currently single. It would probably depend on how duped I felt. If I understood the behaviour from what I knew of the partner, it would be easier than if I felt I was with someone I thought I knew but didn't.

[Spark1111]

I have felt much more" addicted" to single men, when I have been single, than I ever felt with MM. That feeling is common in the beginning of love affairs, and not specifically just married affairs.And speaking as someone that worked as a therapist for many years, treating all affairs as addiction or fog, is the height of counselor stupidity. People are all individuals, there love is unique to them, and should be treated as such.

 

I specialized in drug addiction therapy, and to liken an affair to a drug addiction is ignorance. So in 20 years, I have counceled hundred of drug addicts,( and been one myself) and many people in affairs, and I can answer, they are not the same. One is expansive and reaching for life, the other is reductionist, and hoping for death.

An affair is nothing like heroin addiction.and the people who make these studies, have obviously never experienced both.

 

Wait a minute here....

 

Some affairs may actually be about love, in which case the client is counseled to pursue the relationship that is more loving and healthier for them.

 

But most affairs are about the addiction to feeling MORE ALIVE, while most drug addictions are about DROWNING PAIN.

 

Deal with the true emotions particular to each case, the core of those feelings, and the client is served.

 

But the behaviors exhibited in an addiction, any addiction, are very, very similiar, whether it be an affair or a substance.

[spice4life]

Betrayal is the worst element of an A. There will be negative emotions. I am not sure why it is so overwhelming, but I have seen first hand it is.

 

When I have been betrayed, I didn't like it, but it didn't really affect me. They were not cases where my partner was considering leaving the R. I just thought 'oh, you're capable of that. I know you better. I know something about your weakness for deceit and sex and ego'. These were not love A betrayals.

 

I think I understand people's weakness for these things. I have been weak myself sometimes.

 

But it is just one element. For the BS it is possibly the major one. For me as BS it wasn't. The major one was about the condition of the feelings we had for one another, and the realisation that the partner was capable of being wayward. I didn't really feel betrayed I suppose. I just thought, right you can betray. It was on him, not in me.

 

I realise this is not the way many people feel in this situation.

 

Actually, felicityshot, have you ever asked yourself "why" you didn't have a stronger reaction? Objectively speaking, it appears that you would rather "bend" to understand their weaknesses than feel the intense emotions of anger and hurt these situations bring. I do agree that you are suffering from abandonment issues because this kind of thinking is created by the core of this problem. It's a symptom of abandonment issues. It's like you drive by the warning signs and instead, bend yourself to "fit" the situation. I've BTDT and it wasn't until I realized that anger is a normal emotion that should not be swept under the carpet. In addition to the trauma I experienced, I was also taught, as a child, that anger and sadness were not healthy emotions. My parents only had the capacity to deal with the "feel good" emotions.

 

Something to think about anyway.