When is it crossing the line

[rdm]

Hi all.

Ok, I warn in advance this will be long.... Sorry! I felt I needed to give a long winded account to get the right story across

 

I need some advice/opinions on something that happened a few weeks back and it still churns through my head.... The age old issue of girl on girl kiss came up for me for the 1st time ever a few weeks ago but it has a twist that has me confused and unsure about it all.

 

I'll start off by saying my gf is definitely straight and has never done a girl on girl kiss until now, so the below is not a concern she might be turning lesbian or bi on me... just to set it straight from the start.

 

I have a fairly new gf of 6 months, a few weeks ago while I was out of town she went to a girlfriends place to have a girls night with some friends drinking and chatting etc. Late in the night I received a text message with a picture of her kissing her friend (female). At 1st I was a bit taken aback and unsure of what I thought, obviously the usual male thinking was there..... this is hot!! But at the same time I was a little confused how I felt about it given she was my gf & she had done this without discussing whether I am ok with that kind of stuff nor discussing or setting any boundaries around this kind of stuff with me before hand... To me, running it past the partner 1st would be basic respect for your partner I would have thought?

 

Anyway, the photo was soon followed up by a phone call, she obvioulsy thought I might be concerned about it... so she explained that it was a joke to give me a thrill and the kiss was a complete sham, it took ages for them to actually go through with it as it was awkward etc etc. I was ok with that and was happy to leave it there...

 

The next night when I called her, she tells me she actually kissed another woman that night as well... This kinda made me uncomfortable, my thoughts were what the .... is going on while i'm away... I chose to not say anything and sleep on it to see how I felt in the morning.

 

The next morning I honestly didn't know how I felt so I decided I would talk to her about it, purely to get my head straight on the topic. Because I couldn't call her during the day due to her work, I sent her an email, simply saying "hey, this is no big deal for me but i'm a little confused about how I feel about what happened the other night & i'd like to talk to you about it to get my head straight with it.

 

The response I got back was ok for the most part, she repsonded jokingly saying I was being silly and there was nothing in it, just some drunken fun and girls being girls etc. I was quite ok with that, it was just what I needed to knock my brain back into sense. However...... this is where the twist comes in, she then proceeded to tell me how it all came about.....

 

She told me that the friend she kissed had received a text message from her partner encouraging her to do a girl on girl kiss with my gf and send him a pic (so he could get his rocks off over a girl on girl kiss of course)... So my gf happily obliged in partaking in the deed. This was like waving a red flag in front of a bull to me. For a start she had misled me to believe she had done it for me. She had to admit that sending me the photo was an after thought (I believe because she soon realised what she had done was crossing the line & was hoping by sending me the pic it would down play the whole thing). I also have the belief that what she did was basically a sexual act i.e a girl on girl kiss for the benefit another guy. Putting aside my belief that kissing in that manner is an intimate thing reserved for partners, she did it to give another guy a thrill...

 

So my response to her was to explain (nicely) how I felt about it and that I considered it inappropriate for her to do that for the benefit of another guy etc. She then responded with a very long hostile email which was basically telling my there was nothing in it and she didn't have to justify her actions to me anyway.

 

So needless to say that fired me up and I told her if that was level of repsect she was going to have for me, we were done and broke it off.

 

Things calmed down the next day and we have since got back together... However this issue still eats at me on occasion when it floats into my thoughts. We have since discussed it in detail and I have voiced my views on what I thought about what happened, she still maintains i'm being stupid & she did nothing wrong as she was doing it for a bit of drunkard fun not as a "sexual" thing.

 

My question to her was where is it considered crossing the line then? Heck if that scenario isn't crossing the line then would it have been ok if she jumped into bed with both of them and gave the guy the thrill of a threesome just as a bit of drunk fun???

 

To me it is not the kiss that was the issue, it was the sexual conotations that were attached to it, as soon as it was done to get another guys rocks off it became sexual and it was crossing the line.

 

She has apologised for hurting me over it but maintains she did nothing wrong.

 

So My question after that long winded message... Is it right for me to feel betrayed & hurt (almost as though she has cheated on me) over what happened? Or am I jsut being "stupid"?

 

I will clarify for everyone that I know with 100% certainty that when she did it she definitely wasn't thinking of it in a sexual way, at the time she was just doing something fun and silly. To me that makes it a little better and it is why I have patched things up to-date... but..... she still did what she did under the circumstances that were present... is her ignorance to what was really going on an excuse??

 

I will also clarify again its not about the girl on girl kiss, I can deal with that quite comfortably, it's the reason why the kiss happened that has me upset.

 

I need to work out how i'm going to deal with this moving forward and would appreciate "genuine" opinions on what you would think, feel and do in the same situation.

 

Thanks for your time reading this.

Edited October 7, 2011 by rdm

[PegNosePete]

How would she react if you kissed another guy for the purposes of getting his GF excited? I very much doubt she would be so accepting as you have been. In my opinion you are absolutely right to be steaming mad and I would be too. She is obviously a "party girl" and not ready for a committed relationship, and the fact that she lied and continues to lie to you about this incident speaks volumes.

[RiverRunning]

"She has apologised for hurting me over it but maintains she did nothing wrong." Red flag, red flag, red flag. If she insists she did nothing wrong - how can she be giving you a genuine apology? That sounds like "You shouldn't be mad because I did nothing wrong" rather than, "I am sorry for breaching your trust."

 

This is something that partners should discuss. Gender is irrelevant. She kissed someone else - whether it was for 'fun' or not. You are not comfortable with that. I hope that you have both since discussed your boundaries and the behavior you both expect from one another in situations like this in the future. Do I think she's outright WRONG? No - maybe this never came up and she truly did see this as innocent. But I don't see how she can be so baffled by your response to her kissing somebody else.

 

"she didn't have to justify her actions to me anyway..." This is another red flag. To me, it shows that if you disagree with her in any way, shape or form, she's going to throw out this excuse and try to turn you into a bad guy. To me, this phrase reads like, "You're being a controlling jerk! I don't have to explain myself!" But when you are in a relationship, the expectation is that if you engage in behavior that hurts the other party, it's worthy of discussion. And it's worthy of explanation.

 

Like the other poster said - what if you were kissing a guy and you sent the picture to his girlfriend? I'm sure your girlfriend wouldn't be too pleased, even if she insists now (they all do that) that she would be.

 

I don't get where this idea of "total independence" mixed with "committed relationship" came from. You do give up some of your autonomy when you get into a relationship. You have to consider somebody else's feelings. And frankly, rdm, I don't think that she's considering yours. She's going to make you out to be the bad guy every time you disagree with something that she's done. You're going to be the guy 'limiting' her.

 

You're six months into this relationship. Without a frank discussion about expectations, and without her taking responsibility for her behavior into the future, I think that this relationship is probably not going down the best of roads. Ask her this: if she were to kiss a girl again, knowing your boundaries, would she still insist that she had done 'nothing' wrong? If the answer is 'yes,' you have your answer too - it's time to start looking again.

[seibert253]

Hit the eject button while you still can.

 

Listen, if your G truely loved you, she would put you and your feelings above hers. You've explained that it upsets you and why. She doesn't seem to care, blameshifting, and putting herself first. She sounds extremely insensitve, immature, and selfish. If you allow her to skate, she will repeat this again.

 

IMO you may want to consider getting out now, while you don't have a whole lot invested in this.

[SincereOnlineGuy]

You're just demonstrating how selfish you are.

 

 

Two women, each in a relationship... if those two women kiss for the sake and titillation of one of their respective guys, it's no big deal, but if those same two women kiss for the sake and titillation of the other of the two guys, then it is some horrible act.

 

Your stance is purely selfish, and you know it.

 

 

And now, for weeks no less, you've been trying to justify your own selfishness by bringing it up over and over again, often in hostile manner.

[rdm]

Thanks to all that have replied, all opinions are appreciated.

 

You're just demonstrating how selfish you are.

 

 

Two women, each in a relationship... if those two women kiss for the sake and titillation of one of their respective guys, it's no big deal, but if those same two women kiss for the sake and titillation of the other of the two guys, then it is some horrible act.

 

Your stance is purely selfish, and you know it.

 

 

And now, for weeks no less, you've been trying to justify your own selfishness by bringing it up over and over again, often in hostile manner.

 

sincereonlineguy, i welcome your opinion on the topic, i always enjoy a good balanced debate with views of each angle. However, i will correct you on some detail... i have not been bringing it up over & over again in a hostile manner? I cant see where in my post i said that? We did have a hostile stouch when it occurred & we discussed it in detail after it had all calmed down. since then it hasnt been talked about, as i said in my post, the though floats into my mind occasionally & it stirs up my emotions & confusion about it all.

 

Hence why im here seeking opinions on how others would feel.

 

As for being selfish... we're in a monogamous relationship, that in itself presents a level of selfishness that is expected on both sides. I never said it was ok for her to kiss another woman for my benefit either, if u read my post properly u wouldve seen i was 1st unsure about that as well & still am but i was willing to let it rest at having a quick chat about it. However, the way i see it, if we both discuss it & agree on her kissing another woman as an extension of our intamcy i.e while im there to share in the experience then that is between us, its a choice weve made together as a couple.

 

That is a very different scenario to her cheapening & degrading our "monogamous" relationship by randomly kissing women without my knowledge or me being present & then sending pictures to another guy.

 

That is just my view on it.

[SincereOnlineGuy]

This was like waving a red flag in front of a bull to me.

 

 

that fired me up

 

 

am I jsut being "stupid"?

 

I will clarify for everyone that I know with 100% certainty that when she did it she definitely wasn't thinking of it in a sexual way, at the time she was just doing something fun and silly.

 

it's the reason why the kiss happened that has me upset.

 

 

 

 

Oh, I get it, you just don't know what "hostile" means.

 

 

 

And yes, you are just being stupid.

 

 

 

 

Tell us, at what point during a bullfight is the bull not hostile?

 

 

And we know, we know... you never so much as mentioned a "bullfight".

 

(more clarity, just for you: "bullfight" in this context, means when a human and a bull square-off at some sort of a stadium, and not merely when two bulls go at one another. As you see, bulls don't employ a "red flag" when they are merely {and "randomly"} battling amongst their own kind)

 

 

 

You might have had a point, originally, with the girlfriend, had your own absurd actions and reactions not fully overshadowed anything she had done.

 

 

 

Two women, each with boyfriends, kiss, surely upon request, for the purposes of one of said boyfriends. (side note to you: the effect wouldn't have been the same had the other girl merely kissed her mother's CAT in place of your living, breathing, human girlfriend)

 

You have no more right to grumble about this than does the other boyfriend. So why don't you boldly inquire as to how this meaningless kiss has been the root of their break-up?

 

That it is perfectly OK with you had this charade been for your benefit, while at the same time it is "betrayal" when it happens for the other boyfriend's benefit, clearly illustrates plain selfishness on your part.

 

 

And your story seems to be changing here:

 

 

First you tell of your girlfriend having been at a "girlfriend's" home... and now it ends, somehow, with her "randomly" kissing women (as if it were New Year's Eve in Times Square).

 

You are clearly somebody who continues to react in telling fashion when shown the error in your ways.

[rdm]

Yawn, There has to be 1 in every bunch..! I imagine with the number of posts you've put on this forum that you're a lonely man who sits on internet forums to entertain his otherwise meaningless life. (& who apparently stalks 17 year old girls on the internet...) you're a good sought to be giving any advice buddy!

 

Responses below just for everyones ammusement.

 

Oh, I get it, you just don't know what "hostile" means. I said we had 1 hostile stouch, I never said we didn't, I was correcting you on the "brining it up over & over bit! It was 1 hositile stouch at the time of the event and we have since discussed it once calmly. I am in no way bringing it up over & over in a hostile way to her!

 

 

 

And yes, you are just being stupid.

 

 

Tell us, at what point during a bullfight is the bull not hostile?

 

 

And we know, we know... you never so much as mentioned a "bullfight".

 

(more clarity, just for you: "bullfight" in this context, means when a human and a bull square-off at some sort of a stadium, and not merely when two bulls go at one another. As you see, bulls don't employ a "red flag" when they are merely {and "randomly"} battling amongst their own kind)

 

 

 

You might have had a point, originally, with the girlfriend, had your own absurd actions and reactions not fully overshadowed anything she had done.

 

 

 

Two women, each with boyfriends, kiss, surely upon request, for the purposes of one of said boyfriends. (side note to you: the effect wouldn't have been the same had the other girl merely kissed her mother's CAT in place of your living, breathing, human girlfriend)

 

You have no more right to grumble about this than does the other boyfriend. So why don't you boldly inquire as to how this meaningless kiss has been the root of their break-up?

 

That it is perfectly OK with you had this charade been for your benefit, while at the same time it is "betrayal" when it happens for the other boyfriend's benefit, clearly illustrates plain selfishness on your part. I never said it would be ok for her attached friend to do it it was for my benefit either?? Infact a comment I made to my GF was that exact point. "if it was the other way around and his GF jumped up to do it for my benefit then I can bet the other boyfriend would have a problem with it as I do. I also said to her that the boyfriend if he were half a decent human being should've known better than to ask another guys girl to participate in such a thing for him.

 

 

And your story seems to be changing here:

 

 

First you tell of your girlfriend having been at a "girlfriend's" home... and now it ends, somehow, with her "randomly" kissing women (as if it were New Year's Eve in Times Square) The random bit was in reference to the act of kissing not just her friend but another woman, i.e she was kissing people at random. It had nothing to do with the location.

 

You are clearly somebody who continues to react in telling fashion when shown the error in your ways.

 

End of discussion. If you don't have anything useful to post, perhaps you should stick to being a dirty old pervert who stalks underage girls at their sporting events!

[Bryanp]

You both are in a monogamous relationship so should not be kissing other women for the pleasure of their boyfriends. This is so obvious. It is a question of respecting your partner and your relationship. Maybe you should discuss with her what a committed relationship actually means to her? Good luck.

[jnj express]

1st, how does she handle her alcohol---cuz she might have thought differently about everything had she been sober, or just had one, or two drinks, so question is how does she handle her licquor

 

The bigger red flag, is she kissed another woman also---why, what was her story for that kiss

 

You have a right to be bothered, but you need to decide do you wanna get over it, or are you gonna let your sub-conscious continue to think about it

 

You did the right thing in telling her, if she didn't deal with the problem, and talk to you about it, you were gone---at least you got her attention

 

I guess the two of you, if you are to continue in a serious relationship, need to set some boundaries, and do some communicating, so you each will be aware of what bothers the other

 

Is your GF, flirtatious----does she do much in the way of GNO, but once again, I would wonder about the 2nd kiss to the other woman---what was the explanation for that one?????