Best friend and his wife confuse me!

[saloli]

OK, here’s the story:

I'm in love with my dearest and closest friend. I know he loves me on some level but doesn’t say he is in love with me, so I just keep hoping, and his actions certainly seem to indicate something is going on. I know the wife too, and she knows all about my feelings for him. He, the man I’m in love with, is also my one and only heir in my will, so he'll get my house and land and life insurance. So, I'm hoping that he will soon let the physical intimacy barrier down and kiss me and make love to me and all the things that anyone wants with a person they’re in love with. It is definitely complicated. Both he and his wife know that I am hoping for a polyamorous type relationship wherein he has a wife and a husband (me). And we can form a family together. I believe that mainly he just can’t get past certain things physically. The wife is bisexual, or at least she was always with women before meeting her husband.

He is a psychologist of all things. We have done a lot of intense spiritual work together, in other things in life, beliefs, likes, dislikes, we're a perfect match. Even his wife has commented on how spooky it is that we are so much alike and seem to have such a strong spiritual connection. He and I have both consistently spoken to each other about this wonderful connection, even a spiritual level that we feel with each other. So, the relationship has been intense anyway.

 

There has never even been so much as a kiss, but we hug all the time, not the way two male friends typically hug (gay, straight or otherwise unless there is more to it), but deep, longish hugs, I rub his back and even stroke his hair while I hug him. Very often, he initiates the hugs.

 

We talked about being old together, sitting in rockers watching his grandchildren run around and play, while he, his wife and I watch them play. He said that would be a beautiful future and he hopes for that… yet, I’ve told him, the only way that can happen is if he and I find a way to be together as husbands, otherwise, there’s no chance of us seeing that future together. He didn’t say anything to that…

 

Regarding intimacy, he did say that there could be no sexual relationship, and I told him that I would never stop wanting that, that being just friends could only mean a very lonely and painful life for me. So, that's sort of where things sit now. So, I think most men, straight or not, would not continue this relationship if he didn't feel something, especially knowing that it hurts me like hell not having that with him and that will never go away until he and we do have that intimacy. But anyway.... one of the interesting things is that he said he felt like he would need to pull back on the hugging even, but what has happened is the opposite. The hugging has actually increased as well as the intensity of our spiritual work together having intensified.

 

He now has a key to my house, and has asked me what my family thinks of all of this, they just tell me they want me to be happy and they’re fine with there being 3 of us in the relationship. I don’t think my friend has ever been with a man before at all.

 

When I hug him, it is not the brotherly hug. I stroke my hands up and down his back, stroke his long hair and squeeze him tight. And he has never pulled away. Sometimes I nuzzle my head into his chest.

 

So, it's complicated, yet simple at the same time.

 

I don’t remember if I said, but his wife also knows everything, and she has never been anything but kind to me. Since she found out, they seem to actually be including me more in their lives, even wanting me to take an active role in their wedding preparations.

 

So, you see, I'm totally in love with a man who says he's a 1.5 on the Kinsey scale. I had made several comments to him about how I feel my ideal mate is a heterosexual man... His response was to say, 'well, I'm a heterosexual'. He has also made several comments about how back in old days, a man would have his wife and kids, and when he was with his male friends they would have sex, too. After the big talk though, he says that he only meant those things as observations, but says he understands how to me it would seem like he was saying that he's open to the idea. So, not sure what to make of that.

 

As I said, they both know that I'm in love with him and it doesn’t look like they want me out of their lives, but rather it seems they're making more room for me in their lives. It’s a little weird I know, but that’s what it is.

 

I tell him fairly regularly now when we talk "I love you". So, it's not like we talked about it and now I have to hide it, if anything its more out in the open now. When he visits, as he leaves, he gives me a big hug and I usually say ‘I love you‘ to him while looking him in the eye and he just looks at me tenderly, but so far hasn’t said anything in response, except a couple of times he has said ‘Thank you’.

He recently visited and we sat on the couch together for a while. I laid my head on his shoulder and held his hand, stroking his hand with my thumb. Later we did some meditative, spiritual traveling work, and we decided to actually touch this time, usually we lay apart. This time, we lay on my bed, side by side, touching arms/shoulders/legs, and journeyed together. It was an amazing experience, and even he talked about how amazing it was and how he and I can do powerful things together. So, it really is like everything (spiritual/emotional) is in place except for the physical intimacy.

 

I know that him getting married and having a baby is a huge part of his happiness. I have no problem with that, I just hope he finds a place for me too. They also have fertility issues; I even offered to be the sperm donor if it comes to that. I don't know if they'll go for that, but who knows?? I want him to be the father, but it seems somewhat unlikely. In that event, I hope to be the donor and form an incredible family with him and his wife.

 

I just don’t think they would continue to want to be in my life knowing that I am in love with him, how much it hurts to not be intimate with him, always wanting to have that with him etc. unless they we're at least somehow open to it. Most people would kick you to the curb so fast you wouldn’t know what hit you. But neither of them has done that. So, I just have to wait for him to be ready. Given our relationship so far, I believe there is a really good chance of it happening, but it will require patience.

 

I know it sounds messed up, but love can make you do crazy things at any age. Also the fact that he is trained in psychology (and martial arts!), he has to know and realize all this stuff.

Much of my experience in trying to find romance with gay men has led me to believe that my mate is not in fact gay. And now I am totally in love with my straight friend. I don’t even think of myself as Gay any longer, I just think of myself as a human with a penis that is in love and wants to be mated with my friend, who also happens to have a penis.

 

Recently he rearranged his work schedule to basically spend all day with me. We went to a waterfall. He asked how I was doing with everything regarding our first big conversation. So, I told him, and I also took the opportunity to tell him about my parents support and how they thought we already were lovers because of all the time he spends at my house. He said he was shocked that they thought that. His response was to say he has other male friends and spends time with them but no one thinks they’re lovers (I pointed out that those other friends, whoever they are, are straight and he doesn’t hug them the way he and I hug, etc). I say whoever they are because even his soon to be wife has made the statement that he spends more time with me than with anyone else, and she told my sister a while back when we went to the beach together that she was so happy that he has me, as there is no one else that he can share so much with or that he has so much in common with (and even at that point, she was very well aware that I am in love with her husband).

He just said again in an email yesterday that we could be no more than friends, yet the day before, out by the waterfall, he told me that he ”didn’t want to destroy my hope”, meaning the hope that he and I would find a way to be together. So, that’s at the very least a mixed message.

At any rate, I wrote him back just saying that I love him and I would happily die for him if I had to (to save his life!) and that we need to lay off the heavy talk for a while and just go have some fun together, and not talk about anything, at all! Just make some good memories together.

ARGH, so, it’s all fairly confusing to me, and I feel like my heart is breaking. He knows that I’m in a lot of pain, but also that I love him no matter what and I’ve told him that in the meantime I will be the best friend to him and his wife that I can be. Neither one of us has ever had any ‘poly’ experience, right now he says it’s not going to be possible, yet he still wants me around, which I think is odd, even if you love someone as a friend and nothing more, I think that by far most people would not be wanting to maintain that friendship given the situation.

Since I told him how I feel, they both seem to actually be including me more in their lives, even wanting me to take an active role in their wedding. They had me over to work on some wedding stuff this weekend. While we were working, at one point, I slipped and called him 'sweetie', and a little while after that, he laid his fingers over mine and we just sat there like that for a minute sort of holding onto each other’s fingers. I just don't see a straight man doing that with the gay man he knows is in love with him, and at the same time also planning a weekend together just the two of us about a month after the wedding.

And then there was last Friday night… I gave him a ‘Bachelor Night’, which consisted of us watching a movie, then I gave him a rite of passage, we had dinner and sat by a fire together. There was lots of hugging that night, too. Earlier in the evening we were talking about typical bachelor parties, the drinking, the porn etc. he commented that it all seemed very homoerotic to him, like a circle jerk… At which point we both laughed a little and I said to him “Well, you let me know when you want to have a circle jerk with me”… to which he replied ‘it’ll be a while before that happens”… and I just gave him a dumb look and said ‘huh!? Really?’ to which he did not reply at all. So, to me that was implying that it will likely very well happen sometime in the future.. I mean, is someone really going to say that to the very person he knows is in love with him?!?! If so, it’s pretty cruel… and being cruel is not part of how I would describe his personality.

And now we are planning a weekend trip away together at the end of October. We’ll be sharing a room, and he made a comment that he “wonders if they’ll think we’re a couple”…

So, there’s a lot of little and not so little things that are adding up to there being something else going on beside just two men having a friendship (at least nothing even remotely close to any friendship that I, nor anyone else I know has ever had, except with a lover!) I’ve been asking myself a lot if I’m just reading too much into things, but when I talk to my other friends, Gay, Straight, and Bisexual, every single one of them agrees that his actions towards me are not those of just a friend, but rather they seem to think that a lot of these things add up to very clear romantic signals and that perhaps he just isn’t ready.

2-weeks later at the wedding:

Friday... lots of hugs, met his parents and her parents. The ceremony was beautiful, he was amazing. After the ceremony they did family photos, and he called me over and said ‘we need you, too!'.. So, they took some pictures of just him and me, and then him, me and his wife. After that my friend said he had to go talk to a bunch of other people, then he said, “I’ll come find you later” in a cute voice and actually tickled my stomach when he said it (think tickle-me Elmo) lol! That seems flirtatious to me.

The next day, at one point we went down by a creek, in a secluded spot, right next to where they spent their wedding night. We climbed in to a place that has 3 sides, another sleeping platform to chat, just the two of us. Then, I knelt in front of him, hugged him deeply, and said “I love you and I hope you truly know that by now”… To which he replied, “Thank you, I know you love me”… well, that’s something I guess, as before he always stopped with the ‘thank you’. I’m not sure what to make of that. Then I kissed him on both cheeks and then on the forehead. He was fine with it.

Then, later in the day … at one point he went to walk behind me, though he had plenty of room, and instead of just lightly touching my shoulder to get by or something normal like that, he placed his left hand on my shoulder and his right hand on my hip. As he walked by his hand slid all the way around my waistline. Well, I froze! I mean, WTF! It was totally unnecessary and I see it as a very flirtatious thing to have done.

Anyway, later, I went down by the creek. I sat on a rock in the middle of the creek. After a little while I heard something and looked up and there he was, walking towards me.

He knelt down and asked if I was Ok, then he stepped onto a rock in front of mine. I started to stand up and I slipped just a little. He reached out and grabbed my hand to steady me, though it wasn’t really necessary. And then he just kept holding onto my hand when he didn’t have to. We just stood there, in the middle of the creek, in a secluded spot, holding hands and talking. Then we crossed back over the creek and walked back up the hill, holding hands the entire time! We didn’t let go until we reached the top of the hill where others might see us. But there we were, in a beautiful, if not romantic spot, the day after his wedding, holding hand for a prolonged time. What the hell do you make of that?!?!

In addition to all of this, we started making plans to return to the same place just the two of us, spend the nights in the same place where he and his wife spent their wedding night. We put it in the context of me and him spending time together there and hiking etc, but at night, we’d be sleeping in the same bed! So, not only are we going away for a weekend together at the end of the month, but now we are already making plans for a second weekend away together. I can’t wait!!!!!

A couple of times at least over the weekend I hugged him and told him I loved him, at least once I said to him ‘I love you, sweetie’. And again, before I left on Sunday, I went and hugged him goodbye and said ‘I love you, sweetie’ again and I kissed him on the cheek. And that was it.

What do you make of all this so far?? It seems to me that his previous words of ‘it ain’t gonna happen’ are not at all matching up with his actions.

Thanks for reading all this!

[evagisele]

I agree with your friends’ opinions that this guy’s behavior isn’t what one would expect from most heterosexual men. He SAYS he won’t have a physical relationship with you, but what someone says and how they act can, obviously, be very different things. I sure see how you think there’s hope, especially if his wife is fine with it. I think he is just having a hard time fully acknowledging his feelings for you. I have to say that if I were you, and I felt that deeply about someone, I would probably wait around and see what happens. I know a lot of people would find that bad advice, but it seems that you’re too deeply into this to just give him an ultimatum and walk away if it doesn’t go your way, right away. If you’re okay with his wife being in the picture and if you’re willing to wait him out (or wait until/if you tire of him and move on), you need to do what your heart tells you.

[KathyM]

I'm a firm believer in the concept that a man can have only one soul mate at a time. The man is heterosexual, and has chosen his fiance to be his soul mate. You need to respect that. The deepest emotional and spiritual connection is supposed to be with one's spouse. The man is trying to keep you at a good friend status. Neither him nor his fiance want your relationship to progress past the friend status. You need to respect that and stop trying to make it into something more. Pursuing a man who has committed himself to someone else is not a good plan for you. You need someone that can be solely yours and who would have strong feelings of attraction to you, not someone who is ambivalent and not sexually attracted to you. I think you should back off and stop trying to make your friendship with him into something more. It's not fair to any of you that you continue on this path.

[saloli]

Well, most human societies at different times in their development have defined marriage and relationships in many different ways. In this case, 1) his behavior towards me is light-years away from that of a platonic, heterosexual friend, he and his wife know exactly the kind of relationship I want with them, and that I have no interest in just being friends. That option only leads to pain and loneliness for, well, forever...

 

Even his wife has said herself that the connection, spiritual and otherwise, between her husband and me is incredible, and that she is happy he has me, and yet she knows full well I am in love with him and that just being friends is not a path that will bring any kind of joy or happiness, but only heartbreak.

 

I do not 'pursue' him, 99% of the time, he comes to my house, even know we are planning at least 2 weekends away together, just the two of us.

 

I have told him that I have no interest of desire in being only friends, even close friends with him, and yet, his physical actions towards me have only increased. the man is a psychologist, if he didn't want more with me, as a second mate (it's called a 'V' in poly circles), he, above anyone, should be able to see how his actions are doing nothing but conveying a very strong message of wanting more, yet he also moves very cautiously and slowly about it.

 

Again, even his wife has commented on how we must be some sort of soul-mates to each other. i understand that most people in our culture believe that relationships can only be between 2 people. That is actually a very recent development in human cultures. Marriage was only about property and political unions until about 100 years ago. It was extremely rare that anyone married for love. That is not the case here, they do love each other, and I love them, too, and I'm in love with him, and all parties are aware of it, nothing is being done secretly.

 

If he was just trying to keep me as a good friend, all these other physical interactions would not be happening. I've never even heard of 2 Gay men acting like this with each other unless they wanted more than friendship.

 

Also, even if he saw me as a good friend, and never wants anything more than that, would not most people just cut you out of their lives for the good of all involved instead of prolonging it, which is what it would be if that is the case. And by prolonging he would be willfully and knowingly inflecting massive pain upon me, even as a 'close friend'.

[saloli]

Evagisele: thank you for your response and for seemingly understanding more about the situation. We do indeed have a very deep relationship, even sharing spiritual practices together. And yes, I think it is worth it to stick it out, especially since he is showing all these other actions as opposed to his earlier 'statements'. It seems that a lot of people are saying, 'if you haven't had sex yet, it ain't gonna happen'... is it not better to build the relationship first and then move into something more physical?

 

that's what this feels like, a sort of courtship, with lots of sexual tension, a fair amount of uncertainty about where this is leading, but again, all parties know full well what I want from this and what I don't want from this. It is difficult to be this patient, and to deal with the pain and loneliness of not being with him in the meantime. And yet, these other tender moments happening as well. I want to scream half the time. Yet today walking around downtown, I actually started smiling and felt happy thinking about those moments.