How to identify a partner with low libido

[Afishwithabike]

Since the topic of libido is a favorite on this board, I thought I'd share this post from another board.

 

http://forums.ivillage.com/t5/Articles-Resources-Journals/My-Top-10-ways-to-identify-a-LL-Partner/m-p/106867852

 

 

 

This post evolved from someone who was thinking of getting married and wanted to know how to avoid some of the heartache she witnessed on this board. She was a virgin and intended to stay one until she was married. Quite a challenge, to say the least! But there *are* read flags a person might be able to identify. Some require a form of sex, but many do not. Some may find the list helpful. Some may not. And for too many, it might be too late to matter, anyway.

 

Finally, each of the items on this list can be (and has been) critically dissected. Just because a person has one or two of these characteristics does not necessarily mean they are Low Libido (LL). There are legitmate nonlibido-related reasons for each. But taken in aggregate, having several of these can be a warning someone might chose to heed before making a longterm committment. In anycase, they would be worth discussing with any perspective partner before deepening the relationship. Yes, these ARE generalizations. Approach and apply with caution. YMMV and other disclaimers apply.

 

Here's my TOP 10 ways to identify a LL person...

 

First off, the odds of landing a LL guy or a guy who will have a substantial low libido problem at some point in your relationship is about 20%, which is way higher than most folks think. This is based on some of the research I've read. Sorry I don't have the citations, but check the Journal of Marital and Family Counselling for starters.

 

FYI, the odds of landing a similarly LL wife (or one that will turn out LL) for the guys is 60% based on the same research. Give or take 5%.

 

While predicting who is and who isn't going to be LL is difficult, I have seen some common themes from being on this board for 4+ years. A Low Libido (LL) person typically:

 

1. Has no time or inclination towards sexual topics, items or subjects. This could be porn, lingerie, certain T.V. shows, books, pictures, etc. It does nothing for them, or precious little. If this is true for your guy, beware. Double beware if they are turned-off and disgusted by any or all of the above. Porn is controversial, but guys are generally more accepting and responsive.

 

2. Has no sexual fantasies. This is huge and consistent. Most of us, when we ask our LL spouses what their sexual fantasies are, they report that they don't really have any. Or have very few or something very tame, like sex in a water bed or something. Not all fantasies have to come true but sexually healthy people do have fantasies and have them on a regular basis. They don't have to work on thinking about sex. To a high libido person, thinking and fantasizing are as natural as gravity.

 

3. Thinking, talking and having sex is a chore. Generally, LL folks lose energy when they have to relate on a sexual level, and they tire of it easily and quickly. HL generally gain energy as the level of sexual tension increases. Sex increases the well-being of people with high sexual thresholds, and not having sex bothers and hurts them on many, many levels. Sexual pressure tends to have the opposite effect on LL individuals, who will experience and express great anxiety and distress dealing with sexual matters.

 

4. Low libido people are generally easily and quickly satiated. Read an article below concerning LL from a sensory integration framework for more detail. In a nutshell, after having sex, the LL person will be satisfied for a longer period of time. They get irritated in a major way if they just finish having sex (meaning it was just an hour, a day, a week or even a month ago) and their partner tries to intiate again too soon. For HL folks, the more they have, the more they seem to want. The LL individual may regard having sexual contact again as overkill and may even be turned off.

 

5. The LL person will generally have more boundries and limitations on sexual practices. There are a slew of us on here who have partners who refuse to have oral sex with us. Some are okay with giving and more are okay with recieving, but it is almost universal that our LL partners will have some aversion to oral sex in some way. Or in any way, as in the case with my DW. The absence of variety and kinkiness may relate to the dearth of a fantasy life for LL people. 69ing is not a regular component of the menu for any of us HL CL folks. Most people have boundries, but the sexual space of low libido individuls tends to be more limited as they tend to have more narrow zones of comfort.

 

6. Kissing. There are a bunch of us who have partners who refuse to give us open-mouthed or long, deep, passionate kisses. If your virgin fiance isn't looking for your tonsils (in apparent sexual frustration) I'd be concerned. But that's just me. For some, this relates again to a narrow comfort zone and the seeming insatiable demand for intimacy from a HL partner. Kissing is a physical and deeply intimate expression that could be analogous to sexual style and preference.

 

7. Initiating. This is also a sore spot, as most HL people on this board complain that if they don't intiate, nothing is going to happen. Or they have given up, simply because they have been turned down so often. The LL partner generally intiates on an infrequent basis, if at all.

 

8. Talking about sex is different. The LL partner generally talks about "giving it up" or "giving the person sex" or "giving in", and refers to the other partner as the one "getting it" as in "I just gave you some (last month), and I can't believe you are interested in getting it again!" While the HL person may use similar language, such as "Pleeeze?! Can I pleeeeze have a little somethin'?" they are more likely to refer to it as a shared experience. The HL partner's fantasy includes being with someone who truly enjoys being with them, finds them sexually exciting really, really wants to jump their bones and responds with lust, desire and passion. All of these components indicate a more shared experience from the HL standpoint. Our partners frequently view it from the standpoint of enduring it and wanting to get it over with.

 

9. Sex is not worth the effort. Often there are many obstacles to having sex, including work, schedules, physical stress, children, intramarital tensions and other factors that make sex a goal that seems far away. For the LL person, there is a very finite amount of energy that should be expended towards sex. If there are conflicts or obstacles, sex quickly gets put on the back burner. Circumstances sometimes warrant this, but the HL partner will almost always find ways of overcoming or working around these obstacles. The LL person will allow circumstances control and ultimately crowd out time, energy or thoughts of sex. They are often too tired for sex. The HL is more often too tired of NOT having sex!

 

10. Hostility towards discussing the topic. Generally, the LL folks regard having to discuss the clashing libido issue as pressure, which leads to #9. They will generally avoid the subject and definitely avoid discussing the problem or deny that there is one at all. Included in this is shifting responsibility back to the other partner. The problem should be a *shared* concern, not just a matter of fixing one person or the other. Chances are, both partners have contributed and both need to be involved in mending the relationship. However, the LL partner's refusal to even discuss the topic (see #1) makes resolving any issues or problems almost impossible and the problem simply becomes more aggrevated and vexing.

 

One more disclaimer - this is not to imply that having a low libido is wrong even if society deems it so. We're a highly sexed culture. If a person is LL, it would seem reasonable that they would conciously seek out those who are similarly compatible rather than inviting longterm and devastating conflict. However, consider Items #1 and #10 especially and carefully. Not having a sex drive doesn't have to be a problem to matched couples. Hiding and evading discussions of the topic ARE serious problems that indicate other, deeper problems. So this list (while certainly not exhaustive) might be useful to them as well as to HL folks looking to avoid longterm conflict and pain IF they take the time to discuss some of these issues. -- T-man

[mem11363]

Afish,

A big part of the LL challenge for a woman goes like this. The desire to mate (mostly for recreation, and a bit for procreation) is what DRIVES their male partners willingness to "move the earth" for her. SHE wants "half" that guy. The non-bedroom half. And for those who don't believe in pre-marital sex, she starts the marriage in a great position to basically give very little while the guy basically tries to solve a "greased rubiks cube in the dark" to get his needs met.

 

I had the "combo" conversation with my W before marriage. Sort of went like this: "All that testosterone means that your life is way better in almost every way". You can't accept all the "benefits" and then walk into the bedroom at night and pretend that I don't have a high drive. That is a non-starter.

 

That said (deep sigh) you CAN:

Create a strong sense of fairness and sexual commitment from your partner. And if you can figure out how to be an overall great partner you can amplify the amount of effort your partner puts into the sexual part of the marriage.

 

You CANNOT:

Create a partner who likes/loves sex as you the HD partner does.

 

Over time (22 years for us) this creates some complications, hurts and tensions that require commitment to work through.

 

Overall so far so good.

 

That said - I freely admit we have a 1950's version of marriage where sex/provider roles are concerned. In every other part of our marriage we have a 21st century model and things are mostly equal. I say mostly because I tend to be more accommodating than she is.

 

 

 

Since the topic of libido is a favorite on this board, I thought I'd share this post from another board.

 

http://forums.ivillage.com/t5/Articles-Resources-Journals/My-Top-10-ways-to-identify-a-LL-Partner/m-p/106867852

 

 

 

This post evolved from someone who was thinking of getting married and wanted to know how to avoid some of the heartache she witnessed on this board. She was a virgin and intended to stay one until she was married. Quite a challenge, to say the least! But there *are* read flags a person might be able to identify. Some require a form of sex, but many do not. Some may find the list helpful. Some may not. And for too many, it might be too late to matter, anyway.

 

Finally, each of the items on this list can be (and has been) critically dissected. Just because a person has one or two of these characteristics does not necessarily mean they are Low Libido (LL). There are legitmate nonlibido-related reasons for each. But taken in aggregate, having several of these can be a warning someone might chose to heed before making a longterm committment. In anycase, they would be worth discussing with any perspective partner before deepening the relationship. Yes, these ARE generalizations. Approach and apply with caution. YMMV and other disclaimers apply.

 

Here's my TOP 10 ways to identify a LL person...

 

First off, the odds of landing a LL guy or a guy who will have a substantial low libido problem at some point in your relationship is about 20%, which is way higher than most folks think. This is based on some of the research I've read. Sorry I don't have the citations, but check the Journal of Marital and Family Counselling for starters.

 

FYI, the odds of landing a similarly LL wife (or one that will turn out LL) for the guys is 60% based on the same research. Give or take 5%.

 

While predicting who is and who isn't going to be LL is difficult, I have seen some common themes from being on this board for 4+ years. A Low Libido (LL) person typically:

 

1. Has no time or inclination towards sexual topics, items or subjects. This could be porn, lingerie, certain T.V. shows, books, pictures, etc. It does nothing for them, or precious little. If this is true for your guy, beware. Double beware if they are turned-off and disgusted by any or all of the above. Porn is controversial, but guys are generally more accepting and responsive.

 

2. Has no sexual fantasies. This is huge and consistent. Most of us, when we ask our LL spouses what their sexual fantasies are, they report that they don't really have any. Or have very few or something very tame, like sex in a water bed or something. Not all fantasies have to come true but sexually healthy people do have fantasies and have them on a regular basis. They don't have to work on thinking about sex. To a high libido person, thinking and fantasizing are as natural as gravity.

 

3. Thinking, talking and having sex is a chore. Generally, LL folks lose energy when they have to relate on a sexual level, and they tire of it easily and quickly. HL generally gain energy as the level of sexual tension increases. Sex increases the well-being of people with high sexual thresholds, and not having sex bothers and hurts them on many, many levels. Sexual pressure tends to have the opposite effect on LL individuals, who will experience and express great anxiety and distress dealing with sexual matters.

 

4. Low libido people are generally easily and quickly satiated. Read an article below concerning LL from a sensory integration framework for more detail. In a nutshell, after having sex, the LL person will be satisfied for a longer period of time. They get irritated in a major way if they just finish having sex (meaning it was just an hour, a day, a week or even a month ago) and their partner tries to intiate again too soon. For HL folks, the more they have, the more they seem to want. The LL individual may regard having sexual contact again as overkill and may even be turned off.

 

5. The LL person will generally have more boundries and limitations on sexual practices. There are a slew of us on here who have partners who refuse to have oral sex with us. Some are okay with giving and more are okay with recieving, but it is almost universal that our LL partners will have some aversion to oral sex in some way. Or in any way, as in the case with my DW. The absence of variety and kinkiness may relate to the dearth of a fantasy life for LL people. 69ing is not a regular component of the menu for any of us HL CL folks. Most people have boundries, but the sexual space of low libido individuls tends to be more limited as they tend to have more narrow zones of comfort.

 

6. Kissing. There are a bunch of us who have partners who refuse to give us open-mouthed or long, deep, passionate kisses. If your virgin fiance isn't looking for your tonsils (in apparent sexual frustration) I'd be concerned. But that's just me. For some, this relates again to a narrow comfort zone and the seeming insatiable demand for intimacy from a HL partner. Kissing is a physical and deeply intimate expression that could be analogous to sexual style and preference.

 

7. Initiating. This is also a sore spot, as most HL people on this board complain that if they don't intiate, nothing is going to happen. Or they have given up, simply because they have been turned down so often. The LL partner generally intiates on an infrequent basis, if at all.

 

8. Talking about sex is different. The LL partner generally talks about "giving it up" or "giving the person sex" or "giving in", and refers to the other partner as the one "getting it" as in "I just gave you some (last month), and I can't believe you are interested in getting it again!" While the HL person may use similar language, such as "Pleeeze?! Can I pleeeeze have a little somethin'?" they are more likely to refer to it as a shared experience. The HL partner's fantasy includes being with someone who truly enjoys being with them, finds them sexually exciting really, really wants to jump their bones and responds with lust, desire and passion. All of these components indicate a more shared experience from the HL standpoint. Our partners frequently view it from the standpoint of enduring it and wanting to get it over with.

 

9. Sex is not worth the effort. Often there are many obstacles to having sex, including work, schedules, physical stress, children, intramarital tensions and other factors that make sex a goal that seems far away. For the LL person, there is a very finite amount of energy that should be expended towards sex. If there are conflicts or obstacles, sex quickly gets put on the back burner. Circumstances sometimes warrant this, but the HL partner will almost always find ways of overcoming or working around these obstacles. The LL person will allow circumstances control and ultimately crowd out time, energy or thoughts of sex. They are often too tired for sex. The HL is more often too tired of NOT having sex!

 

10. Hostility towards discussing the topic. Generally, the LL folks regard having to discuss the clashing libido issue as pressure, which leads to #9. They will generally avoid the subject and definitely avoid discussing the problem or deny that there is one at all. Included in this is shifting responsibility back to the other partner. The problem should be a *shared* concern, not just a matter of fixing one person or the other. Chances are, both partners have contributed and both need to be involved in mending the relationship. However, the LL partner's refusal to even discuss the topic (see #1) makes resolving any issues or problems almost impossible and the problem simply becomes more aggrevated and vexing.

 

One more disclaimer - this is not to imply that having a low libido is wrong even if society deems it so. We're a highly sexed culture. If a person is LL, it would seem reasonable that they would conciously seek out those who are similarly compatible rather than inviting longterm and devastating conflict. However, consider Items #1 and #10 especially and carefully. Not having a sex drive doesn't have to be a problem to matched couples. Hiding and evading discussions of the topic ARE serious problems that indicate other, deeper problems. So this list (while certainly not exhaustive) might be useful to them as well as to HL folks looking to avoid longterm conflict and pain IF they take the time to discuss some of these issues. -- T-man

Edited October 9, 2011 by mem11363

[Reuben Kinkaid]

Wow - my spouse fits almost each one. It's like someone's been watching our very boring bedroom for the last few years.

[Radagast]

Interesting post! It assumes consistent behaviour, though. My ex-wife's libido, while never very high, was passably mediocre when we first met. However, once we married her libido evaporated entirely, and she became the text-book low-libido case - until she wanted children, when she was willing to tolerate sex as a means to becoming pregnant. Once pregnant she was cured of the last vestiges of a libido forever.

[betterdeal]

Attempt to have sex with them several times a day, and if they don't want to, you can be sure they have a low libido.

[mitchell]

Excellent post. Wish I had read this before I got married 23 years ago!

[FredRutherford]

Interesting material.

 

Fish,

What interested you in the topic? Personal experience on one side of the equation with a LL spouse?

[Afishwithabike]

Fred - no personal experience with the issue actually, but I read a lot of material on various relationship forums and I know this particular topic comes up very frequently on LoveShack so I thought I'd share it.

[carhill]

For awhile there I thought I had become one of the 20% of males but, at a neutral state, as I am now, I just don't tick off the boxes from the T-man post.

 

Question for those who have experienced infidelity....looking back, before disclosure/discovery, did you notice any changes in your own (not the unfaithful partner) base libidinous response cycle? IOW, did your body sense that something was up even though you had no cognitive knowledge/information/suspicion?

 

I would say, since I don't want to have sex with anything that walks and has a vagina, I definitely don't have a high libido, rather more one which is linked to how I feel in the relationship/marriage. I kind of envy people who can be pissed at their partners or suffer infidelity and still want to have sex with the person, as well as with random unknown people when not in a relationship. That's a wonderful disconnect I doubt I'll ever experience.

 

Anyway, having experienced the 20% and being pretty aware of the nuances, I'll be happy to answer questions from one guy's perspective.

[oldshirt]

I think your examples do a good job of identifying people who are "sex negative" vs "sex positive" but I question the accuracy of identifying someone's actual libido.

 

Perfect examples are my wife and I. I am very 'sex positive.' I believe that on a fundamental level sexuality is something that is generally positive and benificial and is positive force in the world. I have somewhat liberal views on it and even though I realize it carry inherent risks and can cause pain and suffering if misused, it generally is a positive force in the world.

 

My wife on the otherhand was brought up in a very religious 'sex negative' environment and was raised that sex is fundamentally bad and must be strictly controlled and all traditional rules and standards must be strictly enforced.

 

On your scorecard as you have presented it my wife showed ALL of those signs in our early days of dating. The only thing that was different is that she was a hellcat in bed:laugh:.....and still is 16 years and two kids later.

 

Over the years she has become more comfortable talking about it and has accepted that it plays a positive force and role in our lives and if you have read any of my other posts you will note that we are active swingers and we do invite others into our maritial bed on occasion.

 

While I am very 'sex positive' and I am the exact opposite of all of your points, I really am no more 'horny' than most other guys. and while she would test positive on all of your points, her actual libido ends up not being a whole lot less than mine.

 

Where I do think your points are valid and would raise a red flag is that someone who possess all those traits you mentioned, I believe they are at more risk of having some kind of psychological or emotional hang up where sex is concerned. If someone feels that sex is fundamentally bad, they will probably be at a lot more risk of developing some kind of sexual dysfunction.

 

A perfect example of this would be people who try to deny their own sexual feelings and their own desires and go to their clergy to help them pray their desires ...ie their libido, away.

 

So I guess the bottom line of what I am saying is that I think your examples show more of what someone's ATTITUDES and beliefs towards sex are more than their actual libido or desire.

 

I think in the end the only way you will know about someone's actual libido is to get to know them and have a sexual relationship with them. There are people that have some really messed up and dysfunctional attitudes about sex but are still really horny.

[The Blue Knight]

Since the topic of libido is a favorite on this board, I thought I'd share this post from another board.

 

http://forums.ivillage.com/t5/Articles-Resources-Journals/My-Top-10-ways-to-identify-a-LL-Partner/m-p/106867852

 

 

I agree fish. That was a very insightful and well thought out posting. Very much explains the differences and the things to consider sexually about a long term relationship. You've obviously given this a lot of thought. I still have to pick up that book you recommended. Hopefully after the holidays I will as I'll have a bit more time to sit down and go through it.

Edited November 28, 2011 by The Blue Knight

[Milocat]

#2 and #5 are not exactly true.

 

I am a very sexual person but don't have any wild and crazy sexual fantasies. If I do, it's just about real, possible, tangible sex. And I'm sure I'm not the only one.

 

And #5 I don't speak from experience but it doesn't ring true for me either.