So sick and tired of atheism discrimination.

[fallenheart]

There is nothing more vilified in the US than being an atheist.

 

You can be a gay Muslim communist and you'd still have a better chance of becoming President some day than any person that freely and openly admits to not believing in a god.

 

The ignorance literally makes me sick to my stomach. The glorification of anti-intellectualism in the United States over the last decade is thoroughly appalling.

 

The Christian bible is a bunch of fairy tales and myths no different from the likes of Zeus and Thor and the Tooth Fairy. Yet the (currently) most powerful nation on the planet is still governed by those caveman like beliefs.

 

It's truly sickening watching that ignorance continue to be spread like a plague. And if anyone dares to speak out against it, they are vilified worse than a child molester. I think the leaders of the nation WANT that ignorance to continue until we enter a second stone age...when all the wonders of science and technology and the human mind that we've accrued over the last several thousand years are thrown into the garbage heap.

 

I weep for mankind....when will rationality and intelligence persevere against this make-believe nonsense???

[creighton0123]

Fallen, have a little compassion and live up to a higher moral code: cause no intentional or avoidable harm (either by actions or by words).

 

As one who has actually been accused of being a pedophile, been physically assaulted, had pejoratives (f@ggot) hurled at me, etc. etc. simply because I am gay, I cannot see this massive amount of discrimination one faces as an atheist since academia and white collar America are religiously-neutral.

 

Consider this for a moment:

 

Religion - or spirituality at least - are an innate human, anthropological condition. There is something peculiar about religion that makes me believe that it is an innate human characteristic rather than a character flaw.

 

Taken too far (as it almost always has been) it causes more harm than good, but one can't fault the presence of religion in human society flawed in and of itself.

 

Show a little more restraint and respect for the spiritual lives of others and you may earn more respect in turn. I would suggest that you always fight against religious oppression, though. A progressing society cannot tolerate an individual or group of religions using their majority status to cause harm to the lives of others.

[norajane]

As long as religion can be used to control people, it will be.

 

Religion - or spirituality at least - are an innate human, anthropological condition. There is something peculiar about religion that makes me believe that it is an innate human characteristic rather than a character flaw.

 

Yes, people do seem to have a need to explain things they don't understand, and to seek meaning for their lives (and deaths).

[startrekfan]

And if anyone dares to speak out against it, they are vilified worse than a child molester.

 

that's not true. i agree with alot of what you said but that's not true.

 

 

As long as religion can be used to control people, it will be.

 

Yes, people do seem to have a need to explain things they don't understand, and to seek meaning for their lives (and deaths).

 

i agree with that.

 

i think religion takes a lot of money from people. i was thinking the other day something like, "you can't give religion away, you have to sell it." as in, it's not "real" religion unless it's taken seriously. you could have an attitude of being easy going and friendly, but you won't get protection of your religious freedoms if it's just an attitude. you need ceremony, certain rituals, and in my opinion you have to have some people taking it very seriously. what's crazy is that the more fanatical and serious you are about your beliefs the more likely they are to be fiction and fantasy.

 

back to the atheism thing. for a long time i tried to define god as my ultimate good. so even though i believe in science and just generally being a good person, i would try to keep an open mind and say, "i guess that's my god" and then a few times i've had spiritual experiences where i felt god or saw god but looking back it was really just me being at peace with myself and the world and then calling it that. what i've realized later is that the idea of "reaching towards god" or trying to "find god" or "experience god" was an idea taught to me from a young age. i've even argued with atheists about the existence of god saying, i define god as this; these certain set of circumstances or state of being, and that certainly exists. but, the more i look at what humans have done with these concepts the less open minded i am about the whole thing.

[Feelin Frisky]

Fallen, have a little compassion ..

 

...Show a little more restraint and respect for the spiritual lives of others....

 

Fallen seems to be asking for those things yet taking a lecture.

 

I don't see that he was doing anything but making a general statement and rightly so that America will be in deep shi+ as long as its an absolute requisite that its leader and chief executive either buy into the canon of faith/lore (much of which is disproved by science) or must lie and pretend to believe. How that shows "little compassion" no little "restraint" for individuals by and large who happen to believe escapes me. How 'bout some understanding for the intellectual who really wants to help things change for the better who is summarily excluded because of the condition of bending knee to popular notions of god?

[SelfCentered]

It seems to me that America can have a very polarised society. I'm British, but I've lived and worked in the states briefly, and I was struck by how and black and white people's attitudes tend to be.

 

You're either; "Christian" or "atheist", "liberal" or "conservative", "pro-choice" or "pro life" etc. The media seems to hype this up the most.

 

What is more, it seems you're almost expected to despise those that are in the "other camp".

 

Not saying similar prejudice doesn't exist in the U.K. I just think it's less "in your face". I've been in a few social circles where, for example, if you were not a Tory (conservative) you were mocked. Mostly though, things like politics, religious belief etc seem to be rarely discussed.

 

Last year during a televised debate before our general election, one of the candidates- Nick Clegg (Liberal Democrats)- stated quite categorically that he was an atheist. Do you know what the reaction was? Little, if anything. People didn't seem to be bothered.

 

I can't ever imagine that happening in America.

 

I'm an atheist and I was physically threatened in a small bar in Arizona after I admitted this by a so-called "Christian", so can I empathise with OP.

 

On the other hand, I've also seen atheists get in the faces of people who are religious, calling them derogatory things and acting like they're somehow less-intelligent because of it. This kind of attitude angers me just as much.

 

A lot of perfectly good people live their lives and deal with terrible things by believing in God. These people deserve to be respected. From experience, I find they usually respect my choice too.

 

To you OP I'd say to (ironically, given it's origin) "turn the other cheek". Be the better man.

Edited December 20, 2011 by SelfCentered

[thatone]

don't judge us all by arizona. arizona is full of crackpots. if you're familiar with the US phenomenon of 'white flight' that's arizona in a nutshell. angry/fearful white people running away from california, and arizona is where they wound up. the presence of anyone not like themselves is a threat to them.

 

they've recently lost one of our national sporting events (super bowl) due to their overly racist politics, actually. the state decided to make an issue of celebrating martin luther king jr.'s birthday (which is a national holiday) and the football league moved the game elsewhere due to that.

 

honestly, that's the future of religion and why it will decline. they don't go quietly. they double down on stupidity whenever the opportunity presents itself. and there is a financial cost to that, see the point about arizona losing the super bowl. there's a reason why we live in a republic and not a democracy. read thomas jefferson's writings, he hated religion. and our country's founders were smart enough to make the federal courts all powerful and make the winner of the only national election we have appoint the judges.

 

whatever stupidity they do manage to enact a court will soon erase.

Edited December 20, 2011 by thatone

[SelfCentered]

Well, on a whole I quite liked Arizona. I spent a lot of time in Flagstaff and found the people to be very accommodating and polite. This was just an isolated incident I admit, but that being said I've never been threatened in a bar anywhere else in the world for being an atheist!

 

Although, generally speaking I think you're far more likely to get beaten up in a bar in the UK anyway!

 

It's ironic how, as you say, America was founded on the belief that church and state should be separate. In the U.K we're not actually a secular state- the head of government is also head of the Church of England. Yet religion rarely enters mainstream politics. Tony Blair's New Labour Government always avoided it- Alistair Campbell captured this well when he famously said of New Labour, “we don’t do God.”

 

When Blair left his post he admitted he was a practising Catholic- kudos for him for not letting it dominate his policies when in office (although many of them were bad but that's another issue).

 

But in America- which, is a secular state by definition- there's this fixation with religion in politics. Can you imagine the next Presidential candidate saying "I'm an atheist?" He'd getting eaten alive!

 

* Just want to add. Not in anyway trying to sound like I'm bashing America. I love the country and have some great memories of working there.

[thatone]

Well, on a whole I quite liked Arizona. I spent a lot of time in Flagstaff and found the people to be very accommodating and polite. This was just an isolated incident I admit, but that being said I've never been threatened in a bar anywhere else in the world for being an atheist!

 

Although, generally speaking I think you're far more likely to get beaten up in a bar in the UK anyway!

 

It's ironic how, as you say, America was founded on the belief that church and state should be separate. In the U.K we're not actually a secular state- the head of government is also head of the Church of England. Yet religion rarely enters mainstream politics. Tony Blair's New Labour Government always avoided it- Alistair Campbell captured this well when he famously said of New Labour, “we don’t do God.”

 

When Blair left his post he admitted he was a practising Catholic- kudos for him for not letting it dominate his policies when in office (although many of them were bad but that's another issue).

 

But in America- which, is a secular state by definition- there's this fixation with religion in politics. Can you imagine the next Presidential candidate saying "I'm an atheist?" He'd getting eaten alive!

 

* Just want to add. Not in anyway trying to sound like I'm bashing America. I love the country and have some great memories of working there.

 

i think people from the UK accept that certain things are like they are just for show. as you say, such as the head of government being the head of the church.

 

people in the US are bad about starting to believe their own bullsh*t.

 

ironically, it's more your fault than ours . you gave us the cult of rupert murdoch (and it is a cult).

 

i think it's just a simple matter of progress leaving a certain amount of the population behind. the economy has changed, the internet has changed human interaction, and as a result values and ideals have changed. old white people are used to being the center of attention and somewhere along the way they got left behind.

 

and their knee jerk reaction is to blame anyone different for it.

[BetheButterfly]

There is nothing more vilified in the US than being an atheist.

 

Actually, murderers, pedophiles, rapists, animal torturers, and other crimes are vilified, for substantial reasons... beliefs however are not typically villified in the USA... crimes are.

 

You can be a gay Muslim communist and you'd still have a better chance of becoming President some day than any person that freely and openly admits to not believing in a god.

Um... Islam tends to frown on homosexuality. Interestingly, all 3 of the Abrahamic faiths - Judaism, Christianity, and Islam - do not condone homosexuality and consider Sodom and Gomorrah to be an example of God's wrath against sexual perversions.

 

The ignorance literally makes me sick to my stomach. The glorification of anti-intellectualism in the United States over the last decade is thoroughly appalling.

There are many people who are not pleased with the United States at this time. However, I am grateful that the USA has made great progress throughout the years. Most Americans nowadays are against slavery, against segregating a group of people based on ethnicity, religion, or gender. Most Americans nowadays understand that all people are equal, regardless of ethnicity, religion, and gender. This is a huge step for the USA. The USA still has areas in which to grow, but this knowledge as to how the USA is positively changing should soothe your weak stomach a little. If not, then I encourage you to make room in your worldview to include the positive. Instead of seeing the glass half-empty, try seeing it half-full.

 

The Christian bible is a bunch of fairy tales and myths no different from the likes of Zeus and Thor and the Tooth Fairy. Yet the (currently) most powerful nation on the planet is still governed by those caveman like beliefs.

The Christian Bible includes the translation of the Tanakh, which in the Christian Bible is called the Old Testament. The Tanakh is an ancient collection of manuscripts that contain the history of the descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as well as their interactions with the Being they believe is the Creator of us all. Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are not made up creatures, but are rather real people whose descendants are alive today. Although sad to say many people have tried to murder/genocide the Jewish people, thank God there are survivors. The New Testament is a collection of manuscripts that explain what Jesus said and did, how Jesus is the fulfillment of the prophesies concerning him from the Tanakh. However, most Jewish people of today do not accept him as the Messiah, and that is their right to believe what they believe to be true or not. You also are free to not believe that the Bible is true. One important note is that Jesus taught his followers to love. Jesus did not teach anybody to kill others or hurt them or take away their right to believe what they believe.

 

It's truly sickening watching that ignorance continue to be spread like a plague. And if anyone dares to speak out against it, they are vilified worse than a child molester. I think the leaders of the nation WANT that ignorance to continue until we enter a second stone age...when all the wonders of science and technology and the human mind that we've accrued over the last several thousand years are thrown into the garbage heap.

Respect is important and is sadly lacking in these days. If you express your beliefs (Atheism) in a way that does not attack other beliefs (Theism), then that would help people to be more accepting of your message. When I attended university, some of my professors were Atheists, and I did not disrespect them. They are entitled to their beliefs, same as I am entitled to mine. Although some Atheists sad to say have no respect for people who do believe in God, there are other Atheists who are respectful and who know how to talk with people who believe in God in a way that is polite, professional, and caring. Most people (whether they believe in God or not) do not care to talk with anyone who does not treat them respectfully.

I weep for mankind....when will rationality and intelligence persevere against this make-believe nonsense???

There are many rational and intelligent people who believe in God. There are also many people who believe in God who do great things for others. For example, most of the schools and hospitals and non-profit organizations were started by people who believe in God. This greatly helps mankind. Organizations such as the Red Cross, YMCA, Salvation Army, Hospitals with the name (Saint ...), universities including Harvard, Yale, and Princeton. Although sad to say Harvard, Yale, and Princeton are no longer Christian but are rather secular, they were started by Christians (people who believe in God) for a noble purpose: education. So, people who believe in God have done and continue to do great things to help mankind. Objective scholars can thus determine that both people who believe in God and people who don't believe in God can and do contribute positively to mankind. Edited December 21, 2011 by BetheButterfly

[Standard-Fare]

I'm an atheist myself but I have to say I GET some of the prejudices toward atheists. (And often I find myself terming my beliefs as "agnosticism" instead).

 

Many of the atheists who end up in the public eye come across as arrogant, condescending, and black and white in their thinking. In other words... just as extreme as a vigilant Christian. Of course this representative sample doesn't account for the wide range of people who actually abide by atheism...but since that's "what's out there" atheists can get a bad rap.

 

It's a little bit like veganism. Most of us know of a few annoying vegans who we'd want to shake for their persnickity, hard-to-accommodate eating habits, and they might be our go-to image for veganism. When in fact there are a lot of reasonable, sane, hospitable vegans out there who just want to quietly go about their lives.

[SincereOnlineGuy]

There is nothing more vilified in the US than being an atheist.

 

The ignorance literally makes me sick to my stomach.

 

I weep for mankind....when will rationality and intelligence persevere against this make-believe nonsense???

 

 

 

 

Sorry pal, but nobody in their right mind would agree with your initial statement, though your sentiments are accurate at their core.

 

For it is the unattractive among us who are far, far more "vilified" (to use your word) than are any other subset of society. Unlike with religion, it is through zero choice/fault of their own that such people are "vilified" by society.

 

 

When one person has an imaginary friend, he is seen as 'crazy'. When millions of people cite a common imaginary friend, it's religion.

[SincereOnlineGuy]

beliefs however are not typically villified in the USA...

 

You simply do not know what you're talking about.

[D-Lish]

 

 

On the other hand, I've also seen atheists get in the faces of people who are religious, calling them derogatory things and acting like they're somehow less-intelligent because of it. This kind of attitude angers me just as much.

 

 

I've never in my life seen this- maybe because I surround myself with intelligent people that wouldn't think to engage in such a silly confrontation.

 

I've had numerous unprovoked experiences with ignorant religious people telling me I'M misguided. I'll always set them straight, but rarely will I engage in an argument unless I'm attacked.

[BetheButterfly]

I've never in my life seen this- maybe because I surround myself with intelligent people that wouldn't think to engage in such a silly confrontation.

 

I've had numerous unprovoked experiences with ignorant religious people telling me I'M misguided. I'll always set them straight, but rarely will I engage in an argument unless I'm attacked.

 

People are diverse. Everyone has different experiences.

 

There are polite people of every belief, including people who don't believe in a Higher Power. Sad to say, there are also mean people of every belief, including people who don't believe in a Higher Power. I guess the main determination is the heart/character/integrity of the individual, and not necessarily what that individual believes concerning God.

[Eve]

I have only seen conflicts as such on the internet, for etiher side.

 

Where I live it couldn't work in real life as people generally are treated well by others regardless of belief and for this I am SO very glad. I reckon half the stuff said on the intenet could probably get someone sacked from their job or even sectioned (in real life) if they weren't careful. Seriously.

 

What matters really is who can keep things like the karaoke going on a good night in, or out. Also, who can play Jarre Michel Jarre's, 'Oxygene' on a synthesizer after a few drinks is pretty telling.

 

This is the deep deep wisdom we all should focus on more. The rest usually sorts itself out.

 

Take care,

Eve x

[BetheButterfly]

I've been an atheist ...forever. No issues. My gal is also an atheist.

 

We must just live in a different type of society. Nobody really cares.

 

In the USA, people care about many different topics, including religious topics.

 

Also, in Canada there are laws against questions about religion on employment applications, etc. I'm surprised that doesn't exist in the USA.

In secular or public institutions, it is against the law to ask about religion on employment applications. However, in the USA, there are many private organizations that are of a specific belief. For example, there are Catholic, Jewish, and various schools that tend to hire people who believe what they do. In Canada, are there no religious institutions? Anyways, it is legal in the USA for religious institutions to exist and to hire people who believe what they do. This is a part of freedom of religion.

 

Also, religion is just not a topic of conversation our circles. Talk is more likely to revolve around a hundred other issues. I have no idea what most people's religious beliefs are.

 

Whenever I've been asked I just tell people I'm a Jew and follow my father's advice: "Your a Jew and therefore, like most Jews, too intelligent to believe in Judaism".

Do you believe Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the ancestors of Jews, were misguided? Just curious.

 

Anyways, that is very rude of your father to mock Jewish people who do believe in God. My Dad did not teach me to be rude to others, but to stand up for people who are being insulted, hurt, persecuted, or rejected. Jewish people who believe in God have the right to not be insulted by someone questioning their intelligence, same as Jewish people who don't believe in God.

 

If they mention Christianity I just tell them I'm not into worshipping a dead-guy-on-a-stick.

That is very rude, unprofessional, and uncaring. It also shows ignorance on your part as to what Christians believe, since Christians believe that God rose Jesus from the dead. However, you are free to believe what you want. On a professional note, if I knew who you were, I would not want to do any business with you, since what you just wrote is extremely bigoted and rude. I tend to like to do business with people who are polite and respectful of what others believe even if they don't believe the same. It's fine that you don't believe in what other people believe, but being rude to people who believe differently than you is really sad and shows that some Atheists are indeed rude when talking to people of other beliefs. For Atheists who are polite and respectful even though they don't agree with my beliefs, it is a pleasure to work with them!

[BetheButterfly]

Where I live it couldn't work in real life as people generally are treated well by others regardless of belief and for this I am SO very glad. I reckon half the stuff said on the intenet could probably get someone sacked from their job or even sectioned (in real life) if they weren't careful. Seriously.

 

Agreed.

 

Where I come from, respecting other people is important, and that includes agreeing to disagree and not insulting others who believe differently.

[Eve]

Agreed.

 

Where I come from, respecting other people is important, and that includes agreeing to disagree and not insulting others who believe differently.

 

Yes, agreed. This is the code most follow, regardless of belief/non belief. Non compliance says most about a persons psychological makeup moreso than the belief/non belief methinks, as it is possible for people to get on.

 

In one way or another the most approachable on either side can see this. No brainer really.

 

Take care,

Eve x

[Mme. Chaucer]

There is nothing more vilified in the US than being an atheist.

 

I certainly won't fault you for your beliefs, but you do plenty of vilifying yourself in this post.

 

You can be a gay Muslim communist and you'd still have a better chance of becoming President some day than any person that freely and openly admits to not believing in a god.

 

Are you suggesting that there is something wrong with being gay, a Muslim, a communist or any combination of them?

 

The Christian bible is a bunch of fairy tales and myths no different from the likes of Zeus and Thor and the Tooth Fairy. Yet the (currently) most powerful nation on the planet is still governed by those caveman like beliefs.

 

That's a lot of vilifying, right there.

 

It's truly sickening watching that ignorance continue to be spread like a plague. And if anyone dares to speak out against it, they are vilified worse than a child molester.

 

That's utter malarkey.

 

For the record, I am not a Christian or any other kind of religion - believer, but your sense of persecution because of your belief system is exaggerated to the point of rendering you difficult to take seriously.

 

There are, really, groups of people who do face persecution and actual danger in the United States because of what they believe, how they live, their sexuality, etc. I really don't think that the intellectual atheists are among them.

 

 

I weep for mankind....when will rationality and intelligence persevere against this make-believe nonsense???

 

Really, you sound just like what you are railing against - you want everyone to believe the way YOU believe.

 

Practice what you preach! That's my lecture to you for the day.