Women, if you like a guy why do you wait for him to make the first move?

[DepressedinDenver]

Usually when girls think they are giving obvious signals....it is far from the truth.

[iris219]

No. Guys I'm not attracted to rarely ask me out because I close up and give them no signals of interest, although I'm still nice, just detached. Guys I show interest in usually ask me out because I'm giving clear signals. If you're unsure if a girl is giving you signals, she probably isn't. I'm entirely different around a guy I have no interest in vs. one I am interested in.

[zengirl]

I go for it. You have to go for what you want in life

 

I go for what I want in life too. Thing is, I DON'T want a man who's indifferent to me or passive, which is what men who don't make a move are.

 

Depends on what you mean. I don't chase men around, but I don't necessarily assume everyone I see has seen me. If I like a guy, I make some interest known, as iris said. I don't understand women who assume that the best guys are the most aggressive. Generally speaking, good, balanced guys will LEAP at any sign of a window of opportunity if it's there, yes, BUT they don't cold-call random women. Only jerks usually cold-call regularly. YMMV, of course.

 

Now, if we're talking "I've been flirting with this guy for weeks and he never asked me out!" then yes, that's a write-off. But I don't assume that every guy who isn't coming up to me or writing me first online or whatever is indifferent to me. Most of the guys I've dated seriously are guys I either gave a big signal to, like writing them first (online) or going up and talking to them first, or knew really well beforehand. I've not really had issues with chasing men who are indifferent, personally.

[Thieves]

Who isn't slightly picky about the men they like?

What do you mean by obvious? Aside from coming out and saying it? Are you sure the signals you give off are that obvious that you're interested? I only ask because it's really common for people to think they're being really obvious about something but a guy or girl won't pick up on it at all.

 

Eh.. You'd be surprised. Some really don't care all that much, as long as the guy is attractive, can string two sentences together, and can pay for the first few dates. Obviously, others will look for a lot more, down to a T.

 

Usually when girls think they are giving obvious signals....it is far from the truth.

 

Really? So saying things such as, "I'd be lucky to have a guy like you", "You're really amazing, you know that?" "I really like you, a lot", and literally: "Are you seeing anybody?" That along with cuddling up with him, offering to cook for him, making sexual comments, kisses on the cheek... The list goes on. None of that is "obvious" that I like the guy? Or does every female friend you have do those things?

 

If so, I honestly don't know what to tell you. Because other than once, I've had no problems with men knowing I liked them. All the times a person couldn't figure out if I did like them, I didn't.

[DepressedinDenver]

Eh.. You'd be surprised. Some really don't care all that much, as long as the guy is attractive, can string two sentences together, and can pay for the first few dates. Obviously, others will look for a lot more, down to a T.

 

 

 

Really? So saying things such as, "I'd be lucky to have a guy like you", "You're really amazing, you know that?" "I really like you, a lot", and literally: "Are you seeing anybody?" That along with cuddling up with him, offering to cook for him, making sexual comments, kisses on the cheek... The list goes on. None of that is "obvious" that I like the guy? Or does every female friend you have do those things?

 

If so, I honestly don't know what to tell you. Because other than once, I've had no problems with men knowing I liked them. All the times a person couldn't figure out if I did like them, I didn't.

 

Eh those words mean nothing. Woman will say those to friends even if they are not interested.

 

Now the actions perhaps do show interest.

[Thieves]

Eh those words mean nothing. Woman will say those to friends even if they are not interested.

 

Now the actions perhaps do show interest.

 

"Perhaps" show interest. Please, tell me what other actions would show that I'm very much into a guy, besides having sex with him right away?

 

The truth is, anything a woman does less than just asking the guy out will just 'perhaps show interest', even if it blatantly does show that she is interested. Turn it around and have a guy do and say all of the things I mentioned, and I'd be getting burned on these boards for stringing him along because it would then be 'obvious' that he is interested in more.

[DepressedinDenver]

Perhaps perhaps was the wrong word. lol

[Thieves]

Perhaps perhaps was the wrong word. lol

 

Perhaps indeed.

[carhill]

Women, if you like a guy why do you wait for him to make the first move?

 

Not a woman but a lifetime of experience with them indicates the answer is 'because they can'. It's really no more complex than that.

 

Thieve's post had me chuckling about how messed up things otherwise known as signals have become. I don't even bother anymore. I'd rather read War and Peace backwards. The only sure-fire signal I can count on is if she's there holding my hand when I die. Maybe, just maybe, then I can die knowing I meant something to her. If I was wrong, oh well, I'm dead anyway. That's it.

 

Carhill's short list of wrong signals:

 

Dry-humping in the living room....nope, that was best friend's wife

Foot massages, hand-holding and chasing me across the sofa.... nope, best friend's daughter

Stroking my weary brow as my head lay upon her lap in the back seat of the car..... nope, exW's best friend. I recall that period with her (reduced here for brevity) as 'more affection than exW had shown me in a year'.

 

That's just the most recent married ones..... I won't even go into all the single lady mind-fµcks I've endured. Good luck.

[Thieves]

Not a woman but a lifetime of experience with them indicates the answer is 'because they can'. It's really no more complex than that.

 

Thieve's post had me chuckling about how messed up things otherwise known as signals have become. I don't even bother anymore. I'd rather read War and Peace backwards. The only sure-fire signal I can count on is if she's there holding my hand when I die. Maybe, just maybe, then I can die knowing I meant something to her. If I was wrong, oh well, I'm dead anyway. That's it.

 

Carhill's short list of wrong signals:

 

Dry-humping in the living room....nope, that was best friend's wife

Foot massages, hand-holding and chasing me across the sofa.... nope, best friend's daughter

Stroking my weary brow as my head lay upon her lap in the back seat of the car..... nope, exW's best friend. I recall that period with her (reduced here for brevity) as 'more affection than exW had shown me in a year'.

 

That's just the most recent married ones..... I won't even go into all the single lady mind-fµcks I've endured. Good luck.

 

Ah. As I said, seems no matter what a lady does to say she is very interested, it will always be seen under the one word 'perhaps'. Flip it around and a man does everything the same, and it's a, "Yeah, he for sure is into you." Sometimes you just can't win, despite that I often come right out and tell these men that I do like them in more than just a friendly way.

 

Le sigh. What can ya do?

 

PS: War and Peace isn't that bad.

[carhill]

Actually it's quite good compared to similar time spent deciphering women's 'signals'. Heck, I'll read it and watch Dr. Zhivago at the same time

 

ETA, in another thread, we have a LS'er ending a FWB which started with this signal: 'He gave me this big grin, I grinned back, and he came right over and introduced himself. We talked for a while, then he asked me out.'. The reason for the end of this FWB? Evidently the young man has a problem with 'anger issues'. I need to develop me some anger issues and a winning grin; it'll be like being 26 (the age of her young lover) all over again, or maybe just go back to reading the book

Edited October 14, 2011 by carhill
add thread link

[Monm82]

I think dating for men and women, would be much easier, if women made the first move, or least make their attraction extremely obvious.

 

Most guys aren't super confident. It's mostly super confident guys who want to make the first move.

Edited October 14, 2011 by Monm82

[Ajax]

Frankly I would appreciate it if women were more up front when they liked me. Being the one who's supposed to make the first move can be quite exhausting. Nine times out of ten (okay, in my case only eight times out of ten, but still) a guy will get rejected anyway. Coming away with nothing for your troubles but a bruised ego just gets old.

 

And for those of you who say that men will accept dates with women they're not really interested in, well I can only speak for myself, but I never have.

[phineas]

I totally agree. I let a man know I am interested, usually on a dating website, by making him a favorite or winking or whatever tool each website has, which tells him I am open to his advances. If the website has a feature where you can see who looked at your profile, I will look often! He will take the hint or not.

 

I am a rather strong woman and I need an equally strong man, personality wise. I'd walk all over a passive, shy, weak, insecure man, so I'd never respect him.

 

Good to know.

I plan on giving Match.com a try next month or the next & have no clue what i'm doing.

[phineas]

Exactly.

 

Women make it very clear when they like a guy. A guy should only ask a woman out if she's made it clear she wants him to.

 

I can promise you, what most women view as obvious or clear probably doesn't even register on a guy's radar.

 

I've had women at work say "hi" to me when I walk past them & later found out that was supposedly their "clear" sign they were interested in me.

 

Really? they say "hi" to 70yr old guy that pushes the mail cart also & hold full conversations with him. They must be in love with him. LOL!

 

Or, we are just friends & they spend our whole friendship telling me they don't want a relationship or to date & just want to stay single then invite me over for a movie & get mad at me because I didn't try to have sex with them. WTF?!?!

 

Why would I make a move on a woman who has made it "clear" she just wanted to be friends. LOL!

 

I've learned to just simplify things. If a woman is overly friendly I ask her out. She either accepts or declines I'm not afraid of rejection anymore.

 

It took me until almost 40 though to not be afraid of it.

[red shoes]

No. Guys I'm not attracted to rarely ask me out because I close up and give them no signals of interest, although I'm still nice, just detached. Guys I show interest in usually ask me out because I'm giving clear signals. If you're unsure if a girl is giving you signals, she probably isn't. I'm entirely different around a guy I have no interest in vs. one I am interested in.

 

I know what you mean! I'm so much friendlier and warmer with a guy I have no interest in.

 

That said, I try to hint or give signals to get a guy I'm interested in to ask me out. Whether they get the hint is another story.

 

The reason why I don't always ask guys out is I'm quite kind and it's easier for a guy to do or say things that make me go weak in my knees (even if I didn't like him from the get-go). But it's less likely to find a guy that decides he's grown to like someone he wasn't already attracted to.

[singlelife]

I know what you mean! I'm so much friendlier and warmer with a guy I have no interest in.

 

That said, I try to hint or give signals to get a guy I'm interested in to ask me out. Whether they get the hint is another story.

 

The reason why I don't always ask guys out is I'm quite kind and it's easier for a guy to do or say things that make me go weak in my knees (even if I didn't like him from the get-go). But it's less likely to find a guy that decides he's grown to like someone he wasn't already attracted to.

 

 

Never thought of that point of view before.

[louise_23]

I mean I amn just sayin. If you want something why not go after it?

 

far too scared of getting knocked back!!

[LittleTiger]

I mean I amn just sayin. If you want something why not go after it?

 

I don't 'want' a man who is too passive or shy to approach me if he's interested.

 

I'm attracted to assertive, confident men - if he doesn't make the first move, he's not my type.

[udolipixie]

I mean I amn just sayin. If you want something why not go after it?

 

Me personally? I don't do "like" more like fit my criteria. I don't wait yet I don't make the first move because the guys already have.

 

Women in general?

1. Same reason men don't fear of rejection.

 

2. It goes out of social norms and the way it goes out make make them look less.

The social norm is the guy asks out the girl & going out of that having the girl ask the guy could have the girl looking aggressive/desperate asking out a guy who probably isn't all that interested in her since he didn't make the first move.

Just like the social norm is that guys don't marry sluts & going out of that norm and marrying a girl he deems a slut could have the guy looking like a chump with a used up girl.

[PelicanPete]

As a guy I'm perfectly fine with doing the asking. I feel its my responsibility as a guy and I wouldn't have it any other way. Guys should do the asking.

 

I mean women have to shave like their whole bodies on a regular basis, carry around a bunch of tampons all the time in case they erupt, deal with mood swings, and spend hours in the morning doing their hair and putting on make up so they look nice. They don't sweat, at the most they glisten, and as far as I'm aware of they aren't capable of pooping. On top of all that they may have to give birth one day.. more than once.

 

Those may be irrelevant points, but I feel that females do enough already. Least I can do as a guy is be confident enough to ask her out to coffee. Who cares if you get rejected, it's better to try and fail then not try at all.

[filani]

Frankly I would appreciate it if women were more up front when they liked me. Being the one who's supposed to make the first move can be quite exhausting. Nine times out of ten (okay, in my case only eight times out of ten, but still) a guy will get rejected anyway. Coming away with nothing for your troubles but a bruised ego just gets old.

 

And for those of you who say that men will accept dates with women they're not really interested in, well I can only speak for myself, but I never have.

 

Exactly right ,But do most women appreciate this fact? I think not.As other male posters have said Most women who claim to give 'clear signals' are actually doing nothing of the sort.In this millennium of 'empowered women' the old status quo simply doesn't hold water any more. The No Nensense Man Marc Rudov said it best in this excerpt from one of his interviews which i have quoted below

 

Excerpts from an interview with Marc Rudov (The No Nonsense Man)

 

The foundation and dynamics of almost every relationship are established with the first e-mail or telephone chat and then solidify according to the structure of the first date. Most men and women still believe that, in the dating ritual, the man should unilaterally pursue the woman. The man calls the woman. The man arranges the date. The man picks up the woman to drive her to the date. The man pays for the date. The man initiates the goodnight kiss. The man returns the woman to her home. The man calls the next day to thank her for allowing him the privilege of spending his money on her. Then, the man calls a few days hence to determine whether this woman is available again for another opportunity to entertain her. Yes, in 2011, when women are doctors, lawyers, CEOs, mayors, and governors, the majority of romancers still play this obsolete, disempowering game.

 

 

In the past, I spoke with two women, highly accomplished and educated women, who told me they both love and insist on men pursuing them. Their explanations were similar,the chase makes them feel special and desirable.If they 'lower' themselves to approaching and chasing men, they will lose all vestiges of their prized femininity. They will feel desperate and unattractive. They will no longer be the apples high in the tree, just beyond reach, where only skilled ladder-climbers can hope to get them. Instead, they will become as common as the ones at eye level or, worse, those that have fallen to the ground, easy to scoop up and place in the basket. Moreover, how will they explain to their mothers and girlfriends that they have stepped off their proverbial pedestals? One can only imagine.

 

 

The woman who demands that a man pursue her ultimately winds up with the guy who makes the greatest effort, not the one who is compatible with her. Many pursuit-oriented women have admitted to me that they frequently date guys they don’t really like because the guys wear them down with persistence.Well Duh! Wake up, girls, you asked for it. And, let’s not exclude the extreme case where the ultrawealthy guy unabashedly flashes his cash, cars, homes, and Learjet to outright buy the girl, and she willingly enters the gates of the “golden prison.” You see, whatever system you use will work. If it is unfair and unbalanced, both of you will lose. But, if it is fair and balanced, both of you will win. This is not rocket science; it is common sense.

 

At the end of the day, the only equitable solution is mutual pursuit. Men and women should pursue each other equally, mutually, and simultaneously. Neither party should stand on ceremony.

 

Ladies, stop basing your ego and femininity on being the pursued party.Pick up the damned phone to call him—to arrange a date, to chat before a date, to follow up after a date. And, by all means, pay for the date. This does not mean you should become a freight train.Sweetness and thoughtfulness still reign, but be firm. Finally, do not use the tired argument that you don’t make as much money as he does. Take him where your budget permits. If you can afford to go clubbing with your girlfriends, you can afford to take him on a date.And,regardless of how much money he makes, he will appreciate your treat. Everyone likes to be treated.

 

Guys, stop chasing women like hunting dogs! It’s emasculating to you, insulting to them, and it establishes a power imbalance that brings you both nothing but headaches.Are you as a man not worthy of pursuit? If she won’t pursue you as well,disregard her. Why should you do all the heavy lifting?

 

In summary, if men and women want to have successful, healthy relationships in which they can trust, respect, and count on each other as peers, they must begin them with mutual pursuit. You go after her, and she comes after you. Both of you contribute the gold, and both of you are entitled to make the rules. This peer-based “mutual-pursuit dynamic” favors neither party and is a solid base from which to grow.

[Monm82]

Exactly right ,But do most women appreciate this fact? I think not.As other male posters have said Most women who claim to give 'clear signals' are actually doing nothing of the sort.In this millennium of 'empowered women' the old status quo simply doesn't hold water any more. The No Nensense Man Marc Rudov said it best in this excerpt from one of his interviews which i have quoted below

 

Excerpts from an interview with Marc Rudov (The No Nonsense Man)

 

The foundation and dynamics of almost every relationship are established with the first e-mail or telephone chat and then solidify according to the structure of the first date. Most men and women still believe that, in the dating ritual, the man should unilaterally pursue the woman. The man calls the woman. The man arranges the date. The man picks up the woman to drive her to the date. The man pays for the date. The man initiates the goodnight kiss. The man returns the woman to her home. The man calls the next day to thank her for allowing him the privilege of spending his money on her. Then, the man calls a few days hence to determine whether this woman is available again for another opportunity to entertain her. Yes, in 2011, when women are doctors, lawyers, CEOs, mayors, and governors, the majority of romancers still play this obsolete, disempowering game.

 

 

In the past, I spoke with two women, highly accomplished and educated women, who told me they both love and insist on men pursuing them. Their explanations were similar,the chase makes them feel special and desirable.If they 'lower' themselves to approaching and chasing men, they will lose all vestiges of their prized femininity. They will feel desperate and unattractive. They will no longer be the apples high in the tree, just beyond reach, where only skilled ladder-climbers can hope to get them. Instead, they will become as common as the ones at eye level or, worse, those that have fallen to the ground, easy to scoop up and place in the basket. Moreover, how will they explain to their mothers and girlfriends that they have stepped off their proverbial pedestals? One can only imagine.

 

 

The woman who demands that a man pursue her ultimately winds up with the guy who makes the greatest effort, not the one who is compatible with her. Many pursuit-oriented women have admitted to me that they frequently date guys they don’t really like because the guys wear them down with persistence.Well Duh! Wake up, girls, you asked for it. And, let’s not exclude the extreme case where the ultrawealthy guy unabashedly flashes his cash, cars, homes, and Learjet to outright buy the girl, and she willingly enters the gates of the “golden prison.” You see, whatever system you use will work. If it is unfair and unbalanced, both of you will lose. But, if it is fair and balanced, both of you will win. This is not rocket science; it is common sense.

 

At the end of the day, the only equitable solution is mutual pursuit. Men and women should pursue each other equally, mutually, and simultaneously. Neither party should stand on ceremony.

 

Ladies, stop basing your ego and femininity on being the pursued party.Pick up the damned phone to call him—to arrange a date, to chat before a date, to follow up after a date. And, by all means, pay for the date. This does not mean you should become a freight train.Sweetness and thoughtfulness still reign, but be firm. Finally, do not use the tired argument that you don’t make as much money as he does. Take him where your budget permits. If you can afford to go clubbing with your girlfriends, you can afford to take him on a date.And,regardless of how much money he makes, he will appreciate your treat. Everyone likes to be treated.

 

Guys, stop chasing women like hunting dogs! It’s emasculating to you, insulting to them, and it establishes a power imbalance that brings you both nothing but headaches.Are you as a man not worthy of pursuit? If she won’t pursue you as well,disregard her. Why should you do all the heavy lifting?

 

In summary, if men and women want to have successful, healthy relationships in which they can trust, respect, and count on each other as peers, they must begin them with mutual pursuit. You go after her, and she comes after you. Both of you contribute the gold, and both of you are entitled to make the rules. This peer-based “mutual-pursuit dynamic” favors neither party and is a solid base from which to grow.

 

Good post.

[Pompom]

Because I'm self-conscious about my looks, scared of rejection and/or ridicule, and terrified to jeopardize the friendship because I tend to fall for my best friends.

So I flirt in an aggressive, but deniable way, and hope it'll make him make a less deniable move. Which is hard at the moment since my "target" thinks having a romantic relationship before marriage, is wrong.

[red shoes]

The reason why I don't always ask guys out is I'm quite kind and it's easier for a guy to do or say things that make me go weak in my knees (even if I didn't like him from the get-go). But it's less likely to find a guy that decides he's grown to like someone he wasn't already attracted to.

 

Never thought of that point of view before.

 

Do you agree or disagree though?

 

I thought that's how the majority of men and women function.