Women, if you like a guy why do you wait for him to make the first move?

[MaxNoob]

 

Some women flirt with guys when their not interested.

Some women flirt with men when they are interested.

 

 

Yeah, I often can't tell if a girl wants me or just wants to be wanted.

One girl pretended to like me for as long as possible simply because she enjoyed being pursued. She excitedly said yes when I asked her out, she memorized my phone number, invited me to her home for dinner, gazed into my eyes, smiling, using a seductive tone. Then she abruptly stopped talking to me. I ask her "what happened, I thought we had something here?"

She said "no, what made you think there was anything at all?"

 

Then I drowned in my sorrows while listening to Chris Isaak - Wicked Game.

[singlelife]

Nothing wrong with women wanting a little fun, just don't take it too far.

[RiverRunning]

I was the first to kiss both guys I've dated. I asked my current boyfriend to, well, be my boyfriend. He was possibly leaving the country at the time, and he maintains he would have eventually asked.

 

Why don't women ask? Cultural indoctrination. Fear of rejection. A lot of the same reasons a lot of men don't. Women are probably afraid of emasculating or 'offending' a guy whose entire masculinity, apparently, relies on whether or not a woman asks him out.

 

I'm all for equality - until it comes to proposing for marriage. I will never ask a man to marry me. For the folks I've known who have, it always seems to end up a complete disaster. The guy goes along with it because he isn't ready to lose the girl, so he does his stint down the aisle, then 5 years later claims it's all her fault when he wants a divorce.

 

I also think a lot of women propose out of desperation - most probably want the man to do it. For one, we don't really have a culturally-defined way to propose to a man. We all know the elements of how a man proposes to a woman.

 

But I do think it's fair for women to ask what the other person is ultimately looking for out of a relationship upfront (just for fun, possibly long-term, possible marriage, etc.). Depending on age, after a year, I think it's fair for her to start discussing her time line and to seek what his time line is. If he's still in "someday," "maybe," or "I don't know" land after 2 or 3 years, it's time to move on.

[ScienceGal]

If I am interested in a guy I let him know. This is usually through simply talking to him, smiling, making it obvious that I am interested. This usually motivates him to ask me out or for my number. I've never directly asked a guy out, but I would if I had to and wanted it badly enough.

[Denai16]

To be honest women were. Not made like men. So when it comes down to it women shouldn't have to ask a guy out. It's a males job. If a women was to approach a man the guy would feel that they aren't a man or that the girl is forceful. Its kind of like why don't girls propose to guys. That's because it's a guys job

[GivenUp0083]

A guy who is into you, will ask you out, no matter how nervous or shy he is. A guy who doesn't, is just not into you or he likes dominant women, meaning, they're really passive and that's not the type of guy I'm into.

 

I don't really believe this to be true at all. If I'm into a girl, I probably will NOT ask her out for various reasons. I'm at the point in my life where I don't really care to be in a relationship anyway, but unless the girl I like gives me ANY REASON to believe that she's interested in me, well then I'm not wasting my time and energy on asking her out and putting up with her sketchy responses.

 

I always try to frame my "asking out" questions to simple yes or no answers so that they will just say "yes, I am interested, I will go out with you". I hate the weird answers, the maybes, the I'm busy, and all that garbage. I'm not in any hurry or excited to go through that confusion. Either she's interested or she's not, and if she can't even at least hint to me that she's interested in me, I don't care how interested I am, I'm not going out on a limb anymore.

[GivenUp0083]

To be honest women were. Not made like men. So when it comes down to it women shouldn't have to ask a guy out. It's a males job. If a women was to approach a man the guy would feel that they aren't a man or that the girl is forceful. Its kind of like why don't girls propose to guys. That's because it's a guys job

 

Some would've believed it was the woman's job to stay at home and cook dinner to be ready for me when I get home from work 50 years ago.

 

Funny how women think gender roles are sexist and mean when they are against them, but when it requires doing something they don't want to do because they're so hopelessly insecure it's "the men's job to do it".

[Metis]

Some would've believed it was the woman's job to stay at home and cook dinner to be ready for me when I get home from work 50 years ago.

 

Fifty years ago, many women who wanted to work outside the home and pursue something besides cooking and cleaning nevertheless stayed in the kitchen, because they were afraid of being hated, ridiculed and rejected by those they love -- which would all, of course, come ON TOP of any ordinary difficulties and problems that working outside the home would entail.

 

Funny how women think gender roles are sexist and mean when they are against them, but when it requires doing something they don't want to do because they're so hopelessly insecure it's "the men's job to do it".

 

So today, many women who want to approach men are "hopelessly insecure" because they run the risk of not merely being rejected, but ON TOP of that, being rejected for the sole reason of making the first move, resented for a perceived attempt to control the situation, ridiculed as "desperate" or accused of being "slutty".

[verhrzn]

So today, many women who want to approach men are "hopelessly insecure" because they run the risk of not merely being rejected, but ON TOP of that, being rejected for the sole reason of making the first move, resented for a perceived attempt to control the situation, ridiculed as "desperate" or accused of being "slutty".

 

This is EXACTLY why I don't make the first move or pursue the guy at first. I've been rejected several times over for being "too masculine" "too intimidating." A couple of the guys who DID date me, turns out they did so NOT because they were interested in me but because I made the first move and they thought," Sure why not, no better options." Then they got better options and dropped me.

[Queen Zenobia]

This is EXACTLY why I don't make the first move or pursue the guy at first. I've been rejected several times over for being "too masculine" "too intimidating." A couple of the guys who DID date me, turns out they did so NOT because they were interested in me but because I made the first move and they thought," Sure why not, no better options." Then they got better options and dropped me.

 

Unfortunately that's a risk you sometimes have to take. If you're interested in a guy take a chance on him.

 

All this I shouldn't do this or shouldn't do that stuff if all in your mind. At the end of the day people usually do what makes them happy, especially in America where there aren't societal pressures to get married as soon as possible. Most people aren't looking for a placeholder.

 

If you meet a guy and like him and ask him out he will say yes if he's interested. It's certainly possible that he'll ask you out before you can ask him out, but why worry about a silly thing like that? Because he might be using you as a placeholder?

[verhrzn]

Unfortunately that's a risk you sometimes have to take. If you're interested in a guy take a chance on him.

 

All this I shouldn't do this or shouldn't do that stuff if all in your mind. At the end of the day people usually do what makes them happy, especially in America where there aren't societal pressures to get married as soon as possible. Most people aren't looking for a placeholder.

 

If you meet a guy and like him and ask him out he will say yes if he's interested. It's certainly possible that he'll ask you out before you can ask him out, but why worry about a silly thing like that? Because he might be using you as a placeholder?

 

Because asking him out might turn him against me... so I might have had a chance BEFORE I initiated.

 

And it seems that guys WILL date a girl even if they're not interested, and just for a placeholder. Cause, hey, why turn down the ego stroke and free sex? Chasing after guys has, in my experience, been a colossal waste of time.

[verhrzn]

Everything to you Verhrzn seems to be a waste of time and yet it also seems like you have never got anything you have wanted in relations. Hmmm wonder why.

 

A guy actually pursuing me and being into both my looks and personality would not be a waste of time. If you have any tips on how to get this to happen, I'd love to hear em.

 

But the point of the thread is why women don't approach guys or make the first move. Obviously my experience isn't an outliner, or other women in this thread wouldn't be saying the exact same thing.

[Queen Zenobia]

Because asking him out might turn him against me... so I might have had a chance BEFORE I initiated.

 

And it seems that guys WILL date a girl even if they're not interested, and just for a placeholder. Cause, hey, why turn down the ego stroke and free sex? Chasing after guys has, in my experience, been a colossal waste of time.

 

Not really, in my experience. A man will appreciate you or he won't, he'll like you or he won't, largely independent of the fact that you approached him first. It's not like a man will say "gee, you know I really liked that verhrzn, but she approached me first so she's clearly not worth my love and devotion". Sure, some men may think that, but would you really want to date that type of man in the first place?

 

If you don't want to chase men, then don't. But just know that not being open to both methods (being the pursuer and the one being pursued) you do cut a down on a lot of options. Yes some of these options don't work out, but then again that happens even if you don't chase a man.

 

But by all means, do what makes you happy.

[GivenUp0083]

Unfortunately that's a risk you sometimes have to take. If you're interested in a guy take a chance on him.

 

All this I shouldn't do this or shouldn't do that stuff if all in your mind. At the end of the day people usually do what makes them happy, especially in America where there aren't societal pressures to get married as soon as possible. Most people aren't looking for a placeholder.

 

If you meet a guy and like him and ask him out he will say yes if he's interested. It's certainly possible that he'll ask you out before you can ask him out, but why worry about a silly thing like that? Because he might be using you as a placeholder?

 

I actually know quite a few women who heavily pursued their man, even faced some rejection in the beginning, but they kept their options open with him and kept making moves over time and now they're happily married. So I don't doubt that there's some men that might be turned off by a woman that asks him out, but you have to ask yourself this: Why would you want to be with someone that is turned off by you showing interest? How messed up is that? Consider your initial move to show a guy your interest level being turned down as a time saver.

 

Because asking him out might turn him against me... so I might have had a chance BEFORE I initiated.

 

And it seems that guys WILL date a girl even if they're not interested, and just for a placeholder. Cause, hey, why turn down the ego stroke and free sex? Chasing after guys has, in my experience, been a colossal waste of time.

 

Chasing after women, in my experience, also has been a colossal waste of time...yet it's my "job" because I have a penis? We've had the same results, yet your decision to stop is justified based on your gender? How is that fair?

 

How about this, think of every guy you were interested in and didn't ask you out....how many of those guys COULD have been interested but didn't think YOU would give him a chance? All it takes is one really great guy to realize your initial move took a lot of courage and respect you for it. I guess you can just keep dating the ones that do ask you out since it's working out so well for you.

 

Or you can do something about it.

[verhrzn]

I actually know quite a few women who heavily pursued their man, even faced some rejection in the beginning, but they kept their options open with him and kept making moves over time and now they're happily married. So I don't doubt that there's some men that might be turned off by a woman that asks him out, but you have to ask yourself this: Why would you want to be with someone that is turned off by you showing interest? How messed up is that? Consider your initial move to show a guy your interest level being turned down as a time saver.

 

 

 

Chasing after women, in my experience, also has been a colossal waste of time...yet it's my "job" because I have a penis? We've had the same results, yet your decision to stop is justified based on your gender? How is that fair?

 

How about this, think of every guy you were interested in and didn't ask you out....how many of those guys COULD have been interested but didn't think YOU would give him a chance? All it takes is one really great guy to realize your initial move took a lot of courage and respect you for it. I guess you can just keep dating the ones that do ask you out since it's working out so well for you.

 

Or you can do something about it.

 

It is not your "job" because you have a penis, but it is the gender constriction you find yourself in.... welcome to a society that defines you by your sex! Women are BEATEN OVER THE HEAD with the idea t hat they must be passive, must be demure, must be "ladylike" and avoid appearing needy and desperate... The whole point of "He's Just Not Into you" is to teach women to NOT pursue, because if the woman is the one making the moves, 8 times out of 10 it means he's not that into it.

 

Again, men don't have to pursue women because it's "their job"... but because of these gendered idea about courtship, a male not pursuing means being alone for very long periods of time, as a woman pursuing is a social abnormality and thus happens semi-rarely. It also means accepting that a woman who pursues you will probably be a "gender abnormality' in other ways... for example, she may be more assertive, more sexually aggressive, or "intimidating." Long story short, guys don't HAVE to pursue, but if they expect a woman to confine to gender norms (being "ladylike") then they have to play their own role.

 

Me personally, the only time my relationship HAS worked out is when the guy asked me out. 4 out of my 5 boyfriends, I pursued. The only one of my boyfriends who actually dug me (and was my longest relationship) pursued me.

 

So I have "done something about it," and it's burned me in a major way. I don't think my experience is so far-fetched either... check out a thread begun yesterday about a guy no longer being attracted to his gf. He fully admits that he only dated her because she pursued him.

 

The only factor that is perhaps specific to me is that whole scenario of "a guy was interested, but didn't ask you out because he thought you weren't interested." This has never been true for me, because guys are well aware they are higher on the social ladder than me, BUT for other girls out there this may be true. If a girl is very beautiful, I might encourage her to try pursuing a guy she's interested in, because her looks might actually be intimidating, and there's a good chance she wouldn't need to worry about a guy dating her because she was "the best he could get."

[aj22one]

Because asking him out might turn him against me... so I might have had a chance BEFORE I initiated.

 

And it seems that guys WILL date a girl even if they're not interested, and just for a placeholder. Cause, hey, why turn down the ego stroke and free sex? Chasing after guys has, in my experience, been a colossal waste of time.

 

Women are more than capable of doing the same things. Unless, of course you think women are all a bunch of winged angels sent from on high who would never do anything harmful to a man.

[ScreamingTrees]

So, Verz, you're no better than the guys here who're too afraid to do anything, really, and complaining to them likely won't change your situation. It sucks, I know, and I feel your pain, but nobody said life would be fair for any of us. We just have to keep on doing what we do.

[verhrzn]

So, Verz, you're no better than the guys here who're too afraid to do anything, really, and complaining to them likely won't change your situation. It sucks, I know, and I feel your pain, but nobody said life would be fair for any of us. We just have to keep on doing what we do.

 

Again, if someone would like to outline exactly WHAT to do differently, I'd be ever so grateful. Because here's my options and my experiences with them:

 

Option: Pursue a guy i'm interested in. Experience: rejection right off the bat (not so bad), cruel rejection (I've gotten oinked at), rejection after I've invested lots of time and emotion when the guy was just wasting my time (was never into me and dating me cause "eh why not," until he finds a girl he ACTUALLY likes and dumps me.)

 

Option: Be pursued. Experience: the one time it happened, it was awesome. (Broke up for other reasons.) Problem is, I am not attractive physically, so I HAVE only been pursued that one time.

 

Option: Get plastic surgery so guys will pursue me. Experience: don't have the money, and wonder if it would even help, as I've heard really often that guys don't like girls who get cosmetic surgery as they see the girl as fake and insecure.

 

So if I'm missing an option, please, enlighten me.

[ScreamingTrees]

First of all, calm down, I'm not attacking you. I'm just saying, there's obviously no easy answer for you or any of the other people with issues on here, male or female. I'm sure you look good, and there's obviously no answer that you haven't been given, but when it all comes down to it, what else can you do, other than live your life and enjoy things?

 

Just being active and happy for YOURSELF will do a lot for you - if you don't open yourself up to it and don't immerse yourself in social settings frequently, how else are you going to EVER get what you want? Same for me, I'm living in limbo right now, not really doing anything, but that won't be for long.

 

I'm sure there are perfectly normal people here who have mentally created a negative, self defeating world in their heads, and it doesn't need to be so.

[GivenUp0083]

Again, if someone would like to outline exactly WHAT to do differently, I'd be ever so grateful. Because here's my options and my experiences with them:

 

I'll try, let's get to work...

 

Option: Pursue a guy i'm interested in. Experience: rejection right off the bat (not so bad), cruel rejection (I've gotten oinked at), rejection after I've invested lots of time and emotion when the guy was just wasting my time (was never into me and dating me cause "eh why not," until he finds a girl he ACTUALLY likes and dumps me.)

 

What defines your way of pursuing? Do you ask him out? Do you grind on him at the dance club and hook up with him? Do you just flirt with him until he gets a clue to ask you out?

 

We will need more details on your current strategy and specific actions/words that you've used to pursue a man. Pursuing can mean various things to various people, so let's find out what you've done.

 

Having said that we don't know WHAT you do exactly, I'd give you an idea of what I would appreciate as a man who is relationship-minded and has respect for women that ask men out (this is what you are looking for, correct?):

 

Make friendly conversation, try to get the guy to laugh a little bit, sound mature, not ditzy, try to have a fun time whatever social setting you are in. When you are LEAVING the party or place or whatever, say to him: "Hey, I had a fun time hanging out with you and you're kinda cute. If you'd be open to going out for a drink or hanging out sometime I think it would be fun." Then hand him your phone number that you've written down already. Then walk away.

 

Follow this to a "T"? Don't have to, but be respectful, friendly, positive, and make the move. Don't flirt sexually, don't act ditzy or dependent. Just confidently let him know you're interested and that here is my phone number, it's up to you to decide if you want to go out with me or not. Some guys may be caught off guard at first so don't put them on the spot of a "yes or no" answer. Let him consider it and he'll call you if he's interested. If you never hear from him, no worries you don't lose anything.

 

 

 

Option: Be pursued. Experience: the one time it happened, it was awesome. (Broke up for other reasons.) Problem is, I am not attractive physically, so I HAVE only been pursued that one time.

 

Well then you have to be proactive. I think attractive women should be proactive too because there's plenty of women out there who "only attract losers". Which means she's not very selective, or uses poor criteria when judging candidates for her boyfriend. In those women's cases they need to be proactive to look for they type of men they are interested in. You need to do the same thing. If it's not working for you, try something else.

 

Option: Get plastic surgery so guys will pursue me. Experience: don't have the money, and wonder if it would even help, as I've heard really often that guys don't like girls who get cosmetic surgery as they see the girl as fake and insecure.

 

I wouldn't recommend this. Looks aren't THAT important later in life anyway, and plastic surgery will just sacrifice your looks in the future for a chance at good looks for a short time in the present. Not worth it along with the other risks that any surgery carries with it. Stop being so insecure about your looks. Some of the ugliest dudes I know have some of the hottest and/or coolest wives. Same with women. Be confident in who you are and your personality and what you can bring to a relationship. If you're spending THAT much time worried about looks to where you're contemplating surgery then your priorities are all messed up. Unlike women, men typically have good judge in character, they can smell someone who reeks of insecurity from a mile away.

[GivenUp0083]

And another thing, Verzhn:

 

Dating absolutely sucks and I hate it just as much, if not MORE than you. I've been rejected, I've been burned, I've been embarrassed, used, and broken by women my entire adult life.

 

- I've driven 200 miles to stay with a woman for a planned weekend only for her to cancel when I got there because she already made plans with "another guy"

 

- I've been stood up by the same woman 6 times.

 

- My mother left my father after 25 years of marriage by calling him at work and saying "I'm leaving you". No fight, no discussion, no marriage counseling, just "goodbye, I met someone else" and it was over. 25 years and a family....gone.

 

- I helped my most recent gf move apartments just me and her, me doing 60% of the lifting, up 4 stories of stairs (no elevator), and then introduced her to my family only to be dumped 2 days later.

 

The most recent girl has broken me. She absolutely ripped my heart out of my chest and did so many things to make me believe she was in love with me, I followed suit, and was crushed. I love her and hate her in every way imaginable and I can't even go on a date or have sex with another girl without her crossing my mind. I'm hollow, I'm empty, I'm soulless. I had so much to give and now I've been drained of any emotion or caring for anyone. I have nothing left.

 

So if you think I don't know what you're talking about then maybe this helps. My friends tell me all the time how I'm the most unlucky guy they know when it comes to women, and they say all the time they wish there was something they could say to me to make me believe not every woman on this planet is an evil, heartless btch. But they know my history, they know what I've been through and endured, and they just leave me be, because they know I've seen too much hurt to believe any words of hope.

 

I can't pull myself out, but maybe you can. I can try to help, but ultimately it's up to the individual to pull themselves out of the shthole.

[Mrlonelyone]

The reason women let the man do the asking is

[jobaba]

I've asked several guys in my life out and recently half a dozen from a dating site. I've come to the conclusion, that it's actually a bad idea asking guys out, for me at least. A guy who is into you, will ask you out, no matter how nervous or shy he is. A guy who doesn't, is just not into you or he likes dominant women, meaning, they're really passive and that's not the type of guy I'm into. Honestly, I found men who complain about women not taking the initiative more often despite emancipation to be pretty lame.

 

Wow. That's not true at all.

 

I've wussed out tons of times on asking out women I've liked (and lots of times in retrospect, wisely so).

 

When I was younger, I was more afraid of rejection.

 

Now, I just kind of rationalize to myself there's no point in asking woman B out, it would never amount to anything.

 

Well. Both are pretty stupid.

[singlelife]

I just think women have the right to be aggressive if they choose.

[Oxy Moronovich]

This is EXACTLY why I don't make the first move or pursue the guy at first. I've been rejected several times over for being "too masculine" "too intimidating." A couple of the guys who DID date me, turns out they did so NOT because they were interested in me but because I made the first move and they thought," Sure why not, no better options." Then they got better options and dropped me.

Your entire post is bogus. Women in positions of power like judges, politicians, police officers, and military officers are considered "too masculine and too intimidating". Heck, women choosing to pursue a career over a family are considered too masculine and too intimidating. Feminists in general are considered too masculine and intimidating.

 

However, women have no problem doing these things. A major point of feminism is to change social attitudes that put women in a negative light.

 

Women seem unwilling to try to change traditional norms like pursuing men, paying for dates, and even initiating sex.