Understanding the "Other Woman"

[alexandria35]

That's my interpretation of the phone conversation when "someone" started to discuss an open marriage. She said later the conversation happened before she left.

 

Her first post is well thought out no doubt about it. She conveniently left out information that would truly turn this relationship into more than just a simple f*ck here and there.

 

I missed her post also about her deciding to use her as her husbands dispenser. There was a vote and she was present. According to her. Now that's important information that shouldn't have been left out of the original post.

 

Her second post if you missed it.

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showpost.php?p=3677338&postcount=10

 

Okay well I guess you're going to have to spell it out to me because I read the post you linked to and I still don't see anything to indicate that the OP had anything to do with choosing this OW. She said she told her husband she didn't expect him to stay faithfull during her abscence. She said she knew of this girl buying her husband gifts and of her emotional imbalance during the time she worked for her husband but before the sexual affair began. I suspect she never knew her husband had started a sexual affair with this woman until the OW herself started harassing the OP. Then her husband provided his wife with the story and the details he thought she would approve off. No doubt about it, I believe he is lying to his wife, but I also think she new little of what he was doing until the OW started communicating with her. I don't think the wife had anything to do with her husbands actions or choices other than telling him he could have sex while she was away. I don't know why you are so determined to believe that the OP was an active participant in this affair because I'm just not seeing that in her story.

[PhoenixRise]

If it is plausible it’s possible. You said your husband was met with a certain crisis. You still have yet to stipulate what that crisis was. Was he unable to work the microwave for his hungry man dinner? Was he ill and needed a nurse? The omittance of that info is to help you see why she is so connected to him. Did they share something that was so intimate (other than sex) why she now has this attachment and can’t let go.

 

I know you love your husband and even though he might be open with you there is always room for lies. As I said some dialogue had to take place as to her joining the team.

 

Dialogue:

 

Husband: I am lonely and I need more substance.

Wife: Well… Do you want to have sex while we’re apart?

Husband: I was thinking about that but I didn’t want to go into it.

Wife: If this is something that you need then I understand since I’m away.

Husband: I don’t know how to go about this.

Wife: I don’t want you f*cking any prostitutes.

Husband: I know... I don’t want to risk that either. It would have to be someone we know and trust.

Wife: Do you know anyone that we can trust?

Husband: Well _______ is a safe bet. She’s already taken with me and I think she’ll be ok with it.

Wife: Ok so let me know if she’s ok with it.

Husband: Let’s hope she is… love you bye.

Wife: Love you too.

That’s the conversation. The problem with that conversation is it’s not entirely honest. The truth is your husband is a predator. He already chose her out as a candidate to f*ck. For all you know he could have been having sex with her before the topic of an open marriage was put on the table.

 

From the moment you guys decided on an open marriage think about how long it took to finalize her being his sex slave. You don’t just pick a person and randomly ask can you be my lover. There was a time frame for manipulation and that takes time, not one day. It’s doesn’t happen in an instant or every man would be getting laid if they approached any woman.

 

She shouldn’t be harassing you and I’m not making excuses for her. All I want you to do is see her perspective and possibly then you can understand where she is coming from. The ball is in his court. It’s his job to deal with her. You were smart with your choice. Be happy it’s only one person harassing you guys and not two.

 

 

 

Even if the conversation went EXACTLY the way you describe (and there is absolutely NO WAY you can know exactly what was said between the OP and her husband OR that she "helped" pick out that particular OW) But even if what you say is exactly the way it went, the OW could have said no.

 

The OP says it was spelled out to the OW that the relationship between OW and MM would be purely sexual and that he never had any intention of leaving his wife.

 

The OP says that by the time anything sexual started he was no longer in any supervisory position. OW had advanced in her career, moved to another institution, and OW and MM worked on projects as colleagues.

 

Bottom line, this OW could have said no to a FWB/NSA affair. And since she didn't say no at the onset, she could have said no at any time during if it wasn't going as she wished.

 

Why this need to take away her (the OW's) agency in this situation?

 

Because she had a time when she was down and fragile everybody should assume she can't make decisions for herself even though professionally, at least, she was then thriving and on the upswing?

 

Does the fact that this woman was at some point in her life down and fragile mean that for the rest of her life some force (other than herself) should protect her from agreeing to NSA if NSA is NOT what she wants?

 

I am not absolving the OP and her husband for the mess they are in. Personally I think that as long as the OW is not doing anything illegal they need to just suck it up and ignore her, but I don't understand at all this need to see the OW as some hapless waif, with no ability to be an active agent in her own life.

[Emme]

A few years ago my husband and I were living apart, in different countries, for professional reasons. We saw each other intermittently, were in daily contact and loved each other very much.

 

However, during that period, several crises struck my husband and he needed more support than I was able to provide him at a distance.

 

This was a source of frustration for both of us. We were realistic enough to accept that we were both vulnerable to "outside interference" and we placed no demands or expectations on each other of sexual exclusivity during this time.

 

Alexandria, my point is there was some form of dialogue as to what will happen in there marriage.

 

Her original post is packed with details. Yet she omits the one detail that set in motion them have an open marriage. They talked about an open marriage before she left. At first I believed the conversation might have took place over the phone while they were apart but it didn’t. Her second post stated this open marriage conversation happened before she left. That’s not something you leave out.

 

So now she’s now across the pond. She speaks to him regularly and has cyber sex. She loves her husband and he loves her. They still hold on to that exclusivity. Then one day a crisis arises, the first one. There were several.

 

A crisis doesn’t just arise out of cement. There had to be some dialogue about this “crisis”. This is a husband and wife who have talks about a possible open marriage even before their separated. This is not two people who have just been f*cking for 3 months and could care less about each other. They have a commitment and an understanding. She understood she could not support him at a distance so therefore someone else had to. The only way to come to that conclusion is by some dialogue.

 

Who started the conversation! I don’t know. All I know is for her to make the statement that she could not satisfy him from a distance meant they had a discussion.

 

As I said it is “my interpretation”. This is the dialogue I would have with my husband if he chose to find someone to help him with his crises. He needs a shoulder to cry on not just sex. There lies the connection between the two of them possibly as to why his affair partner can’t let go.

 

Penelope has details. She has many details as to their bond and connection. Everything she’s stated about their work experience can also be viewed as him grooming her to be his affair partner. Playing footsy can be the attention at the work place and at the dinner table. I say he courted/groomed her. It’s just my opinion.

 

The link was to show where she had talks about an open marriage. The conversation is all mines, not hers. You don’t talk about an affair and forget to mention you talked about an open marriage with your husband.

[donnamaybe]

WTH??!! Now not only do you know a conversation took place between the OP and her husband regarding this OW, you also know exactly what was said?

 

I haven't seen in the any of the OP's post where she has said that she had any involvement or knowledge of who her husband was sleeping with prior to it happening. If I was married and in the same circumstances as the OP the conversation may have been more along the lines of "well were going to be apart for a few years and it's not reasonable to expect total monogamy so If you feel the need to get that itch scratched go ahead but don't get anyone pregnant and don't get any diseases. Also I don't want to know about it when it's happening." Now I'm not saying that this how the convo went, but it very well could have. You are making huge assumptions that this husband and wife somehow plotted together to pick this poor little OW. I think you should stop harping on that and let the OP tell us how it went.

No kidding, eh? I think that was the version edited for the Lifetime network.

[Emme]

Even if the conversation went EXACTLY the way you describe (and there is absolutely NO WAY you can know exactly what was said between the OP and her husband OR that she "helped" pick out that particular OW) But even if what you say is exactly the way it went, the OW could have said no.

 

You’re absolutely right she could have said no. Only issue is the picture Penelope has painted of this woman is that she was emotionally unstable, clingy. If he is the intelligent one he should have known better.

 

The OP says it was spelled out to the OW that the relationship between OW and MM would be purely sexual and that he never had any intention of leaving his wife.

 

That’s the thing with affairs there’s always that blurred line that gets crossed. It gets crossed because people do more than just f*ck. There’s a saying, you don’t pay a prostitute to f*ck her, you pay her to leave. People do the deed and don’t leave. They stick around and play wifey/hubby.

 

The OP says that by the time anything sexual started he was no longer in any supervisory position. OW had advanced in her career, moved to another institution, and OW and MM worked on projects as colleagues.

 

As I said before she was being groomed. All that polite, sweet, kind heartedness made her weak in the knees. She’s an easy target. Why would he try to start all over again with someone new when she is ripe for the picking! He was just lazy.

 

Bottom line, this OW could have said no to a FWB/NSA affair. And since she didn't say no at the onset, she could have said no at any time during if it wasn't going as she wished.

 

He picked someone unstable. Guess he’s not as smart as he thought he was.

 

Why this need to take away her (the OW's) agency in this situation?

 

Easy.,. Penelope made her out to be a dunce. He picked someone from the litter that wasn’t potty trained. Stay away. She can’t comprehend something that simple. She is not in her right mind. The fault lies in his lap. He’s the intelligent one.

 

Because she had a time when she was down and fragile everybody should assume she can't make decisions for herself even though professionally, at least, she was then thriving and on the upswing?

 

Yup. Emotionally unstable. You could get away with murder… why not an affair.

 

 

 

Does the fact that this woman was at some point in her life down and fragile mean that for the rest of her life some force (other than herself) should protect her from agreeing to NSA if NSA is NOT what she wants?

 

If she wanted to absolutely it’s sad but true. There are regular people that make up symptoms just to get away with things. That’s why you should always listen to your mother when she tells you to stay away crazy people. You don’t listen you get burned.

 

I am not absolving the OP and her husband for the mess they are in. Personally I think that as long as the OW is not doing anything illegal they need to just suck it up and ignore her, but I don't understand at all this need to see the OW as some hapless waif, with no ability to be an active agent in her own life.

 

Penelope painted a perfect picture of her that’s why. The people here at LS are learning how to cope. The sensible thing is to process the information and move forward. This OW is in her own world. She can make up any rules she wishes and she is governed by that. You don’t want to mess with her in any way. Penelope said it’s been a few years and she won’t stop. A few equals 3 years. What normal person after 3 years still stalks their affair partner as if it’s day 2 of the affair ending. Exactly! Hence she is not normal.

[PhoenixRise]

You’re absolutely right she could have said no. Only issue is the picture Penelope has painted of this woman is that she was emotionally unstable, clingy. If he is the intelligent one he should have known better.

 

The OP said she started out that way. She also said the OW's career was thriving by the time the sex started.

 

 

That’s the thing with affairs there’s always that blurred line that gets crossed. It gets crossed because people do more than just f*ck. There’s a saying, you don’t pay a prostitute to f*ck her, you pay her to leave. People do the deed and don’t leave. They stick around and play wifey/hubby.

 

Not always true. Some NSA sex is just NSA sex. If that is what you have agreed to it is YOUR fault if you start to imagine it is anything else. The nature of the relationship changes when you BOTH decide it changes.

 

 

As I said before she was being groomed. All that polite, sweet, kind heartedness made her weak in the knees. She’s an easy target. Why would he try to start all over again with someone new when she is ripe for the picking! He was just lazy.

 

Really? Groomed? Maybe. Still if she is a functioning adult she is responsible for making the choice to enter a NSA relationship if what she really wanted was more than that.

 

 

He picked someone unstable. Guess he’s not as smart as he thought he was.

 

Perhaps he was under the impression that she was just a woman who HAD been going through a hard time (hence the fragile behavior early on) but who had come out of it stronger in the end (hence the newly thriving career). I would read it that way if someone I knew made that kind of change.

 

But unless that woman needs to be committed for her own safety, she is ENTIRELY responsible for the choices she made.

 

Easy.,. Penelope made her out to be a dunce. He picked someone from the litter that wasn’t potty trained. Stay away. She can’t comprehend something that simple. She is not in her right mind. The fault lies in his lap. He’s the intelligent one.

 

Maybe Penelope thinks she is a dunce...So?

It is a no brainer to me that adults, all adults, even OW adults are responsible for their choices. If the OW is a dunce and Penelope's husband picked her, it is not Penelope's fault that he picked a dunce. Maybe he should be responsible for getting is picker fixed. I happen to think the OW in this case is not a dunce. But I think it is entirely possible that she agreed to a NSA affair when she wanted something different. I think I give the OW more credit than you do. I know all kinds of people who have gone through some pretty soul crushing scenarios in their lives, it doesn't give them a free pass from making intelligent decisions about their lives or their relationships.

 

Yup. Emotionally unstable. You could get away with murder… why not an affair.

 

Apparently there was no secrecy. An open marriage, even if it is only open for a specific time, is not the same thing as an affair.

 

 

If she wanted to absolutely it’s sad but true. There are regular people that make up symptoms just to get away with things. That’s why you should always listen to your mother when she tells you to stay away crazy people. You don’t listen you get burned.

 

 

Penelope painted a perfect picture of her that’s why. The people here at LS are learning how to cope. The sensible thing is to process the information and move forward. This OW is in her own world. She can make up any rules she wishes and she is governed by that. You don’t want to mess with her in any way. Penelope said it’s been a few years and she won’t stop. A few equals 3 years. What normal person after 3 years still stalks their affair partner as if it’s day 2 of the affair ending. Exactly! Hence she is not normal.

 

I have seen posts here where OW complain that the jilted ex-wife is still bothering she and her husband/former MM years after the divorce is over and the AP's now married. Oddly no one here seems to think it is understandable since clearly the MM made promises to the ex-wife and got the ex-wife to believe he loved her.

 

No matter what kind of mental issues the ex wife might have had (depression, substance abuse, general instability) the onus is put on the ex wife to cope with the changes on the ground and deal. The ex-wife is considered responsible for her actions even though she had far less info regarding the triangle she was in than the other two players.

 

AND BTW

 

There have been OW who use to post here quite frequently about seeking out MM for NSA sex. Said she wanted no emotional entanglements and that she made that very clear from the start when she approached these men. According to that OW some of these men actually left their wives for her even though she explicitly told them it was all sex for her and so she dumped them once they demonstrated (by breaking up their family) they wanted more than she wanted to give. Are these men unstable? Is that OW responsible for the mess these men made in their lives? Or are the men who got attached and made decisions contrary to the NSA arrangement with the OW, responsible for their own behavior?

[woinlove]

Penelope, your post seems to take some swipes at the OW and perhaps even a bit at OW in general. While I can certainly understand being frustrated and angry at a woman who stalks you, makes up lies about you, and continues unwanted contact for years with you and/or your H, the fact is you are looking for information from OW so I'm surprised, if your request is genuine, that you include these swipes in your post. Also, if nothing else, this particular woman seems to have given your H what he wanted for a while, with your blessing, so that is another reason I would have expected you to leave some of the swipes out.

 

Given the tone of your OP, it is not surprising that you got some responses very protective of the OW, although the idea that she was a "sex slave" and should have been treated like a child who is not capable of giving consent, seems over the top -- although something along that general theme does crop up here.

 

For someone who behaves the way you describe, I doubt there is much you or your H can do to make her behave differently. I would recommend making sure you have the whole story/truth from your H, making sure her attempts get no response, and (if you are sure the first 2 are satisfied, as you seem to be) going through legal channels, starting with a letter from your lawyer, if she persists.

Edited October 18, 2011 by woinlove

[Snowflower]

AND if the original post described an ex-wife who was continuing to harass the former OW years after MM divorced the wife and married the OW would anybody here be so forgiving of the wife's behavior?

 

Has this question been answered? I haven't seen in this thread but then again, I tend to skim the really long response posts.

 

And this...

 

I have seen posts here where OW complain that the jilted ex-wife is still bothering she and her husband/former MM years after the divorce is over and the AP's now married. Oddly no one here seems to think it is understandable since clearly the MM made promises to the ex-wife and got the ex-wife to believe he loved her.

 

No matter what kind of mental issues the ex wife might have had (depression, substance abuse, general instability) the onus is put on the ex wife to cope with the changes on the ground and deal. The ex-wife is considered responsible for her actions even though she had far less info regarding the triangle she was in than the other two players.

 

There was another situation similar to this (in fact, the xOW in the situation recently started a new thread here) where the BW now xW refused to accept that her marriage was over.

 

The xW in that situation is considered manipulative, crazy, a poor parent and in need of help. I don't see much difference between the OW in this OP's situation and an xW who refuses to let go.

 

Why is the OW treated by some here with kid gloves and like she was victimized?

 

I don't know, something seems off with this whole situation so maybe these questions/scenarios are moot.

 

But, I would love to know why it is okay to forgive the OW for hanging on desperately when it is really distasteful and annoying when the BW refuses to let her H go to the OW? It's the same basic behavior where a woman is having difficulty letting the man she loves go to another person.

 

Can someone please explain the difference?

[donnamaybe]

I have seen posts here where OW complain that the jilted ex-wife is still bothering she and her husband/former MM years after the divorce is over and the AP's now married. Oddly no one here seems to think it is understandable since clearly the MM made promises to the ex-wife and got the ex-wife to believe he loved her.

 

No matter what kind of mental issues the ex wife might have had (depression, substance abuse, general instability) the onus is put on the ex wife to cope with the changes on the ground and deal. The ex-wife is considered responsible for her actions even though she had far less info regarding the triangle she was in than the other two players.

 

AND BTW

 

There have been OW who use to post here quite frequently about seeking out MM for NSA sex. Said she wanted no emotional entanglements and that she made that very clear from the start when she approached these men. According to that OW some of these men actually left their wives for her even though she explicitly told them it was all sex for her and so she dumped them once they demonstrated (by breaking up their family) they wanted more than she wanted to give. Are these men unstable? Is that OW responsible for the mess these men made in their lives? Or are the men who got attached and made decisions contrary to the NSA arrangement with the OW, responsible for their own behavior?

Perfectly stated. What's good for the goose is good for the gander alright. There was a thread recently about people having a victim mentality and how that was a bad thing - started by an OW by the way.

[Emme]

The OP said she started out that way. She also said the OW's career was thriving by the time the sex started.

 

Exactly! She started out as a woman who had personal issues. Now these issues were the known. They were not hidden or camouflaged. He new she was unstable in the beginning.

 

Now put yourself in his shoes. Would you want to start sexual relations with someone whose history once was as Penelope described.

Lacked confidence and cried at the slightest upset and needed very careful handling

 

Really think about it! No one IMO would start sexual relations with someone who’s a cry baby. You’re asking for trouble. Not because she improved professionally doesn’t mean she did emotionally.

 

 

Not always true. Some NSA sex is just NSA sex. If that is what you have agreed to it is YOUR fault if you start to imagine it is anything else. The nature of the relationship changes when you BOTH decide it changes.

 

I agree. For me it depends on the case at hand. If Penelope came on here and gave a description of a woman who is capable I would have just given her a direct answer as to what her husband should do.

 

This woman had issues and Penelope’s husband knew. You can’t play chess with someone who only knows how to play checkers. They have to be taught.

 

The woman has time to go through his belongings. She shouldn’t be around after sex. If he f*cked her as soon as he’s done it’s time to throw her out or it’s time for him to leave, dirty if need be.

 

 

Really? Groomed? Maybe. Still if she is a functioning adult she is responsible for making the choice to enter a NSA relationship if what she really wanted was more than that.

 

Perhaps he was under the impression that she was just a woman who HAD been going through a hard time (hence the fragile behavior early on) but who had come out of it stronger in the end (hence the newly thriving career). I would read it that way if someone I knew made that kind of change.

 

But unless that woman needs to be committed for her own safety, she is ENTIRELY responsible for the choices she made.

 

She was groomed already so there was no need to start on someone new. That’s where he got lazy. He was lazy to pick someone who was as leveled headed as he was. He thought she was an easy target. He pointed to the litter in the box that was away in the corner not even trying to get picked. He picked the one that didn’t know anything.

 

Eventually the predictable happened, and she seduced him.

That’s a beautiful lie right there. I mean if you read it enough you begin to believe it.

 

 

Although she was very conservative in her sexual history, she became completely compliant and consented to a range of sexual practices she would otherwise never had agreed to.

You know what that tells me. She was his puppet. He picked a puppy he could train. He broke her in. He f*cked her and used her and now she can’t let go. That’s another mistake he made.

 

Now everyone woman knows the best f*ck they’ve ever had. Now if she’s being used for his enjoyment just imagine how mesmerized she is by him. For a normal person in all honesty good d*ck is hard to let of, it is. All of us knows his name, how big it and how good it was. If we are capable of letting go little by little it’s ok. This woman is a sad puppy who was trained and then the owner took her off the leash and said shoo. Picture it. Picture a puppy whining for its master. That’s this other woman.

 

 

Maybe Penelope thinks she is a dunce...So?

It is a no brainer to me that adults, all adults, even OW adults are responsible for their choices. If the OW is a dunce and Penelope's husband picked her, it is not Penelope's fault that he picked a dunce. Maybe he should be responsible for getting is picker fixed. I happen to think the OW in this case is not a dunce. But I think it is entirely possible that she agreed to a NSA affair when she wanted something different. I think I give the OW more credit than you do. I know all kinds of people who have gone through some pretty soul crushing scenarios in their lives, it doesn't give them a free pass from making intelligent decisions about their lives or their relationships.

 

Apparently there was no secrecy. An open marriage, even if it is only open for a specific time, is not the same thing as an affair.

 

 

The woman just has emotional issues more so than the average person. That’s all. I gave a scenario of a dialogue. If that’s not how the conversation went then fine. I had my own opinion as to how it happened.

 

I don’t think the other woman is a dunce I think she’s unstable. The picture Penelope painted made her look like a dunce. I give her credit she tried to played checkers with a man playing chess. Only thing is he didn’t count on her starting to throw pieces off the board. That’s what happens when you get lazy.

 

I am glad that you think there should be no free pass. I agree. Now everyone needs to reap what they sowed. Eat your slice of the pie. Deal with it.

[Emme]

I have seen posts here where OW complain that the jilted ex-wife is still bothering she and her husband/former MM years after the divorce is over and the AP's now married. Oddly no one here seems to think it is understandable since clearly the MM made promises to the ex-wife and got the ex-wife to believe he loved her.

 

No matter what kind of mental issues the ex wife might have had (depression, substance abuse, general instability) the onus is put on the ex wife to cope with the changes on the ground and deal. The ex-wife is considered responsible for her actions even though she had far less info regarding the triangle she was in than the other two players.

 

AND BTW

 

There have been OW who use to post here quite frequently about seeking out MM for NSA sex. Said she wanted no emotional entanglements and that she made that very clear from the start when she approached these men. According to that OW some of these men actually left their wives for her even though she explicitly told them it was all sex for her and so she dumped them once they demonstrated (by breaking up their family) they wanted more than she wanted to give. Are these men unstable? Is that OW responsible for the mess these men made in their lives? Or are the men who got attached and made decisions contrary to the NSA arrangement with the OW, responsible for their own behavior?

 

 

When I post I post from the topic at hand. There have been times I've disagreed with someone's actions. Regardless of who it is I give my input as honestly as I can.

[Mme. Chaucer]

One reason that this situation is so divisive is that it's been presented in an almost passive-aggressive manner. Starting with the "belly up" submissive stance, which seems false:

 

 

I hope I am not offending anybody with this post. I have reached a point in my journey of understanding that I can't seem to pass, and I'm hoping for some insights from others to help in that.

 

Then, lots of drama hinted at, but no real information given for us to work with:

 

However, during that period, several crises struck my husband and he needed more support than I was able to provide him at a distance.

 

We were realistic enough to accept that we were both vulnerable to "outside interference" and we placed no demands or expectations on each other of sexual exclusivity during this time.

 

 

People have asked about the "crises," and I also asked about what his need for "support" had to do with his seeking sexual relief with a woman; with this particular woman in fact. But there have been no answers to these questions. Answers would have helped with her "journey of understanding," if this were sincerely her aim.

 

Again, the tone is strangely passive. They were "realistic enough to accept," there were "no demands or expectations" regarding faithfulness - yet she does not state that a decision had been made, actively, and agreed upon. It all kind of just happens, and she describes it with a fatalistic and romanticized tone.

 

I mean, was the "open marriage" part of their marriage, or was it a reaction to his "crises" and his unmet needs for "support" and just decided upon at that moment … while he'd already been having for all intents and purposes an emotional affair with his needy, messed up subordinate at work?

 

And then, the dramatic part of the romance, which we all know, and which includes a lot of descriptive things about the OW's character and behavior along with stuff like:

 

She flourished under his guidance and colleagues commented on how well she was doing, thanks to him.

 

I asked why this was pertinent to the story … because a supervised person is supposed to "flourish" when properly supervised professionally, right?

 

This neither succeeds in depicting the husband as a master of his destiny, or as a hapless victim of a predatory and messed up woman. Again, I would have to describe the narrative as "passive-aggressive," even though I don't think its the right term.

 

 

During this time she continued to be close to my husband, taking him out to dinner and buying him gifts. Eventually the predictable happened, and she seduced him.

 

This puts it all on HER. I think this is why people feel "protective" of this woman. The OP describes her as pretty much of a loser and a basket case who could not even function professionally or personally until her heroic husband came along and trained her up … but suddenly, she has the power. SHE continued to "be close" to the husband. How passively worded it that? Was the husband just going about his biz while this woman stayed glued to his side? I doubt it. SHE took him out to dinner, SHE bought him gifts, SHE seduced him. What was HIS role?

 

I mean, she was his "creation," right? She was nothing without his fine manly aid? And now he is her puppet?

 

And then it goes on.

 

Basically, I don't believe that this story happened anything like the presentation, if it happened at all. If it did happen, I sure would appreciate some answers to the questions I've asked as well as the other posters', including the one about where all the people are now, geographically. If the OW is in another land, her crazed behaviors should be easier to shut out than they will be if she lives in their town.

[woinlove]

I agree, Mme Chaucer! The story as presented seems somewhat inauthentic with a mean-spirited undercurrent.

 

Still....interesting to see how some posters are choosing to interpret the situation - filling in the blanks themselves. A woman who holds a senior position at an (admittedly minor) institution is assumed to be incapable of making adult decisions. Should her institution be notified or are her adult abilities confined to work? Or perhaps since this A, she has become so much more capable?

[FelicityShot]

One reason that this situation is so divisive is that it's been presented in an almost passive-aggressive manner. Starting with the "belly up" submissive stance, which seems false:

 

Again, the tone is strangely passive. They were "realistic enough to accept," there were "no demands or expectations" regarding faithfulness - yet she does not state that a decision had been made, actively, and agreed upon. It all kind of just happens, and she describes it with a fatalistic and romanticized tone.

 

I mean, was the "open marriage" part of their marriage, or was it a reaction to his "crises" and his unmet needs for "support" and just decided upon at that moment … while he'd already been having for all intents and purposes an emotional affair with his needy, messed up subordinate at work?

 

And then, the dramatic part of the romance, which we all know, and which includes a lot of descriptive things about the OW's character and behavior along with stuff like:

 

I asked why this was pertinent to the story … because a supervised person is supposed to "flourish" when properly supervised professionally, right?

 

This neither succeeds in depicting the husband as a master of his destiny, or as a hapless victim of a predatory and messed up woman. Again, I would have to describe the narrative as "passive-aggressive," even though I don't think its the right term.

 

Basically, I don't believe that this story happened anything like the presentation, if it happened at all. If it did happen, I sure would appreciate some answers to the questions I've asked as well as the other posters', including the one about where all the people are now, geographically. If the OW is in another land, her crazed behaviors should be easier to shut out than they will be if she lives in their town.

 

I entirely agree. You worked this out well. It's a passive aggressive troll talking.

 

It's quite an interesting troll thread nonetheless - encouraging sympathy for a BS who has clearly no empathy for the xOW.

 

It's a kind of all OW are pathetic and used listless f*cked up types who are now a minor irritation to a M.

 

If it hadn't been a troll, it really would have been posted on infidelity.

 

The person who posted is NOT asking for information, advice or conversation. We need to be better at spotting this stuff...

[PhoenixRise]

 

 

 

 

I am glad that you think there should be no free pass. I agree. Now everyone needs to reap what they sowed. Eat your slice of the pie. Deal with it.

 

Yep. I never said anyone should get a free pass. I said the OP (if the story is even true) and her husband should suck it up and ignore it unless the OW was actually doing something illegal.

 

I objected to the OW being given a free pass for choices she actively made. I guess I gave her more credit for being an adult able to make rational choices than others who post here.

 

You for example completely ignored the part of the original post where the sexual relationship only started after the OW was doing much better and OW was stable enough to have advance in her career. I read that part of the post as a woman who had been struggling at one point and was now doing better.

 

Frankly, I don't know ANYONE who has not been emotionally fragile at some point. The death or slow deterioration of your parents, the death or sudden disability of a child, the breakup of a marriage, losing all your stuff in a fire....among many other things can serve to make you emotionally fragile for a time. I have experienced some of these myself and was very fragile in the aftermath. I never once considered that being fragile for a time gave one a pass from being responsible for choices made.....who knew?

[spice4life]

One reason that this situation is so divisive is that it's been presented in an almost passive-aggressive manner. Starting with the "belly up" submissive stance, which seems false:

 

 

 

 

Then, lots of drama hinted at, but no real information given for us to work with:

 

 

 

 

 

 

People have asked about the "crises," and I also asked about what his need for "support" had to do with his seeking sexual relief with a woman; with this particular woman in fact. But there have been no answers to these questions. Answers would have helped with her "journey of understanding," if this were sincerely her aim.

 

Again, the tone is strangely passive. They were "realistic enough to accept," there were "no demands or expectations" regarding faithfulness - yet she does not state that a decision had been made, actively, and agreed upon. It all kind of just happens, and she describes it with a fatalistic and romanticized tone.

 

I mean, was the "open marriage" part of their marriage, or was it a reaction to his "crises" and his unmet needs for "support" and just decided upon at that moment … while he'd already been having for all intents and purposes an emotional affair with his needy, messed up subordinate at work?

 

And then, the dramatic part of the romance, which we all know, and which includes a lot of descriptive things about the OW's character and behavior along with stuff like:

 

 

 

I asked why this was pertinent to the story … because a supervised person is supposed to "flourish" when properly supervised professionally, right?

 

This neither succeeds in depicting the husband as a master of his destiny, or as a hapless victim of a predatory and messed up woman. Again, I would have to describe the narrative as "passive-aggressive," even though I don't think its the right term.

 

 

 

 

This puts it all on HER. I think this is why people feel "protective" of this woman. The OP describes her as pretty much of a loser and a basket case who could not even function professionally or personally until her heroic husband came along and trained her up … but suddenly, she has the power. SHE continued to "be close" to the husband. How passively worded it that? Was the husband just going about his biz while this woman stayed glued to his side? I doubt it. SHE took him out to dinner, SHE bought him gifts, SHE seduced him. What was HIS role?

 

I mean, she was his "creation," right? She was nothing without his fine manly aid? And now he is her puppet?

 

And then it goes on.

 

Basically, I don't believe that this story happened anything like the presentation, if it happened at all. If it did happen, I sure would appreciate some answers to the questions I've asked as well as the other posters', including the one about where all the people are now, geographically. If the OW is in another land, her crazed behaviors should be easier to shut out than they will be if she lives in their town.

 

I completely agree. The story's tone was mean spirited with the intent to inflict pain. Definitely passive agressive - a complete dump on total strangers to make oneself feel beter.

[SidLyon]

Here's my own fantasy about this thread:

 

OW#1: "I bet I can put a scenario on the OW/OM discussion board that elicits lots of sympathy for the OW, from several BWs."

 

OW#2: "I bet you can't."

 

OW#1: "Here I go..."

[Mme. Chaucer]

Here's my own fantasy about this thread:

 

OW#1: "I bet I can put a scenario on the OW/OM discussion board that elicits lots of sympathy for the OW, from several BWs."

 

OW#2: "I bet you can't."

 

OW#1: "Here I go..."

 

I would put money on it. That writing style … we've seen it before. Often. I suggested some tips for creating a new voice, but the authoress does not seem to be interested in my editing expertise.

 

You know what's interesting … I have said before that I've played all the roles that we have acronyms for here, at one time or another. I don't use any of the acronyms to define myself today. I don't hate on people who are having an affair, or on people who are being cheated upon. Admittedly, I tend to side with a party I feel has been wronged. Anyway, here on LS, what gets a reliably negative response from me is that sideways, passive-aggressive, arch and aggrandizing tone. I don't really care which party is using it.

Edited October 19, 2011 by Mme. Chaucer

[Gentlegirl]

Here OP...I copied this one day from another OW website...I can't remember which on or the author so I hope I don't get in trouble...but read and enjoy...

 

Who is she?

 

She's the nicest woman you could ever meet; in fact, you might have met her. You might know her fairly well and you might like her a lot without being aware that she's sleeping with your husband. She is a nice woman, really. This is the only part of her life that can't be admired, that can't be examined, that can't be discussed out loud. It's the only part of her life for which she doesn't respect herself and it keeps her miserable, even when she's happy, because she knows whatever happiness she has is stolen and illegitimate. She's not a fool even though she knows she's acting like one.

 

Or, she's not sleeping with your husband -- maybe you're single, maybe you have different relationships in your life -- and so this is a friend of yours, a woman you've come to consider a good and dependable part of your life. She's an elementary school teacher, a physical therapist, a pharmacist, a social worker, a bank executive, a swim coach, an engineer, a computer programmer. She's been your friend since junior high, your college roommate, your best colleague, your neighbor, your confidante, without revealing this part of her life to you because she suspects that even at your most understanding you wouldn't understand. You couldn't unless you've been through this and she knows you haven't. Or she thinks she knows you haven't but one thing she has learned is that nobody is exempt from the possibility of this happening -- if a person could claim exemption, she'd be first on the list.

 

So she doesn't tell you, her best friend. You might judge her harshly or, even worse, stop speaking to her altogether and she can't bear the thought of losing you. She's already surrounded by the possibility of loss and will not add to it, even at the cost of not talking about the very thing that consumes her waking moments.

 

Educated, polite and brought up by a loving family, she's not a particularly hot tomato or the kind of woman usually transported across state lines for immoral purposes. Attractive, fun, attentive and considerate, she is deeply committed to those she loves and that's one of the reasons this tears her apart. One of the things she loves about this man, after all, is the way he treats the ones to whom he is closest.

 

Not her -- he can't treat her as if she were really in his life, after all -- but others. His real family, the inhabitants of his real life. If he were an emotional bully or an emotional slob, she wouldn't have been drawn to him in the first place. Those aspects of his life he betrays to be with her are the very parts of him she would never wish him to compromise. So she understands how divided he is, how he feels like a piece of meat being sliced up by a rusty knife, how he feels like he's drowning and suffocating and being eaten alive all at once. He, too, is a decent person, except for this business of loving someone he isn't supposed to love.

 

Holidays are hard, but so is spring and so are winter nights, summer mornings and long, early-autumn afternoons. The phone is her lifeline and she has about 17 different ways of being reached in case some shard of time can be broken off and given to her. She'll take what she can get -- not in a way anyone would think of her, but in this case it's true. There are codes they use to communicate what can't be spoken or written; these were funny at first but over time they have be come as serious as a car crash.

 

Maybe it ends when there is a car crash and they're in the front seat together, returning from a place where they never should have been, suddenly having to make up a series of lies to disguise what everybody around them now suspects is the truth. Even if they get away with it, the experience wrecks them, mangles what they had beyond recognition. Or, she goes to his kid's high school graduation ceremony and realizes that it's been 12 years already and that she could have had a kid herself by now, one in the sixth grade.

 

Or it continues. Impossible nights, intolerable weekends, endless violations of everything she knows about how life should be lived, but they have loved each other for so long now, how can it stop? She starts to worry that he'll die of a heart attack and no one will tell her for days because why would anyone think to call and tell her an incidental piece of bad news about some guy she never knew very well? Or she starts to think about her own final moments. This is the worst.

 

She can't believe this is her life. Nobody else would believe it either, even the man. It's a tough, rotten, exhausting routine. Nobody chooses it on purpose. This is not a defense of her: She knows better than you that what she's doing is indefensible. Don't ridicule her, and don't think you don't know her. You do.

 

Not sure where I read this but I have.

 

It certainly resonated with me. There are parts of myself in there. OW are just people.

 

Some of us keep it a secret to the grave.

 

GG