Update

[donnamaybe]

Um, my H was not a serial cheater. You must have me confused.

I wasn't aware I was referring to your H.

 

At any rate, I think any of our M's are in no more of a precarious position than any of the BW's who stayed with their cheating H's, yet you're not passing judgment on them, just the married fOWs marriages. Interesting.

No judgements, just observations.

[Got it]

WF has your MM left his wife for you yet?

 

Why would he leave his wife for anyone? And how is this germane to the OP and the topic at hand.

 

Correct me if I am wrong but I thought thread jacking wasn't allowed here?

[thomasb]

I wasn't aware I was referring to your H.

 

No judgements, just observations.

 

Wise observations!

[Brokenlady]

Wise observations!

 

I don't know about that. The marriages of formers APs are watched with everyone hoping they'll fail - look at how many times the gossip rags have claimed Jennifer Anniston was "taking" brad back. Stories like that - even untrue - seem to appeal to a sense of justice in the world. The truth is, any M is vulnerable to failing, not just ones touched by As in one form or another. Some Ms work, some don't. My point is that while I'm sure some Ms of APs do fail, I very much doubt it's any more than any other marriage, and certainly not as often as certain people here wish to think.

[thomasb]

I don't know about that. The marriages of formers APs are watched with everyone hoping they'll fail - look at how many times the gossip rags have claimed Jennifer Anniston was "taking" brad back. Stories like that - even untrue - seem to appeal to a sense of justice in the world. The truth is, any M is vulnerable to failing, not just ones touched by As in one form or another. Some Ms work, some don't. My point is that while I'm sure some Ms of APs do fail, I very much doubt it's any more than any other marriage, and certainly not as often as certain people here wish to think.

 

 

The percentage of affairages succeeding is very much lower than a marriage with no infidelity involved. Check it out if you don't believe it. I doubt you will. It is certainly understandable that you would feel that way in your circumstance. Good luck and God Bless.

[Got it]

The percentage of affairages succeeding is very much lower than a marriage with no infidelity involved. Check it out if you don't believe it. I doubt you will. It is certainly understandable that you would feel that way in your circumstance. Good luck and God Bless.

 

thomas, by chance do you know the stats of a marriage surviving after an affair than with no affairs in it? I would assume those are pretty low as well. Good luck and God bless.

[Summer Breeze]

of those mentioned, one never married and I believe they are no longer together as told by her, one was a serial OW, and another is now married to a serial cheater. It remains to be seen how long those R's might last.

 

With the whole present and future thing we contend with it actually remains to be seen how long ANY Rs might last.

[thomasb]

thomas, by chance do you know the stats of a marriage surviving after an affair than with no affairs in it? I would assume those are pretty low as well. Good luck and God bless.

Nope, do you? I'm just happy mine did! God Bless you back.

[26pointblue]

thomas, by chance do you know the stats of a marriage surviving after an affair than with no affairs in it? I would assume those are pretty low as well. Good luck and God bless.

 

Exactly. I see hypocrisy all over the place in this thread! It's quite hypocritical to doom Brokenlady's marriage to failure because her husband cheated on his wife & is with Brokenlady now, but not to doom Thomasb's marriage to failure because he cheated on his wife & is with his wife now! Both were cheaters.

 

On the other hand it's quite hypocritical of BrokenLady to belittle her husband's ex-wife for the pain she felt due to the MM's actions, & for not letting go, when BrokenLady felt similar pain due to MM's actions, & didn't let go.

 

IMHO after reading on this site & thinking about things I see play out in real life, including my own past experience, I think that it is hard for any relationship/marriage to survive an affair, whether the cheater stays married or leaves to be with the cheatee. And I also think that people get very, very hurt from being involved in affairs whether voluntarily or involuntarily. The essential element is a spouse willing to cheat, & who did cheat,. & thereby hurts two women-- one usually more 'voluntary' to her own pain than the other [this is me speaking from my own experience . . . I allowed xMM to cause my pain, as I believe most OWs do].

 

I do believe people can change & turn their lives around & be forgiven by whoever they harmed [OW or BS or both]. This doesn't change the fact, however, that thomasb hurt his BS & his OW, & BrokenLady's xMM hurt his BS [with her help] & BrokenLady [again, with her help]. I think that to only pay attention to one side of the coin is the pot calling the kettle black. I do hope that BrokenLady's marriage and ThomasB's marriage works out, but both them are guilty of similar mistreatment of others & shouldn't be calling each other out without also calling themselves out!

[PhoenixRise]

Exactly. I see hypocrisy all over the place in this thread! It's quite hypocritical to doom Brokenlady's marriage to failure because her husband cheated on his wife & is with Brokenlady now, but not to doom Thomasb's marriage to failure because he cheated on his wife & is with his wife now! Both were cheaters.

 

On the other hand it's quite hypocritical of BrokenLady to belittle her husband's ex-wife for the pain she felt due to the MM's actions, & for not letting go, when BrokenLady felt similar pain due to MM's actions, & didn't let go.

 

IMHO after reading on this site & thinking about things I see play out in real life, including my own past experience, I think that it is hard for any relationship/marriage to survive an affair, whether the cheater stays married or leaves to be with the cheatee. And I also think that people get very, very hurt from being involved in affairs whether voluntarily or involuntarily. The essential element is a spouse willing to cheat, & who did cheat,. & thereby hurts two women-- one usually more 'voluntary' to her own pain than the other [this is me speaking from my own experience . . . I allowed xMM to cause my pain, as I believe most OWs do].

 

I do believe people can change & turn their lives around & be forgiven by whoever they harmed [OW or BS or both]. This doesn't change the fact, however, that thomasb hurt his BS & his OW, & BrokenLady's xMM hurt his BS [with her help] & BrokenLady [again, with her help]. I think that to only pay attention to one side of the coin is the pot calling the kettle black. I do hope that BrokenLady's marriage and ThomasB's marriage works out, but both them are guilty of similar mistreatment of others & shouldn't be calling each other out without also calling themselves out!

 

 

Great post 26pointblue.

 

Very fair and even handed.

[thomasb]

Exactly. I see hypocrisy all over the place in this thread! It's quite hypocritical to doom Brokenlady's marriage to failure because her husband cheated on his wife & is with Brokenlady now, but not to doom Thomasb's marriage to failure because he cheated on his wife & is with his wife now! Both were cheaters.

 

On the other hand it's quite hypocritical of BrokenLady to belittle her husband's ex-wife for the pain she felt due to the MM's actions, & for not letting go, when BrokenLady felt similar pain due to MM's actions, & didn't let go.

 

IMHO after reading on this site & thinking about things I see play out in real life, including my own past experience, I think that it is hard for any relationship/marriage to survive an affair, whether the cheater stays married or leaves to be with the cheatee. And I also think that people get very, very hurt from being involved in affairs whether voluntarily or involuntarily. The essential element is a spouse willing to cheat, & who did cheat,. & thereby hurts two women-- one usually more 'voluntary' to her own pain than the other [this is me speaking from my own experience . . . I allowed xMM to cause my pain, as I believe most OWs do].

 

I do believe people can change & turn their lives around & be forgiven by whoever they harmed [OW or BS or both]. This doesn't change the fact, however, that thomasb hurt his BS & his OW, & BrokenLady's xMM hurt his BS [with her help] & BrokenLady [again, with her help]. I think that to only pay attention to one side of the coin is the pot calling the kettle black. I do hope that BrokenLady's marriage and ThomasB's marriage works out, but both them are guilty of similar mistreatment of others & shouldn't be calling each other out without also calling themselves out!

 

 

I hold myself accountable every day. And since it has been over a decade my marriage has recovered nicely. I also hope her marriage works out. There are children involved. Now, since being here all day I feel the need to go buy my wife something pretty! Have a great day all and God Bless!

[Brokenlady]

26pointblue,

 

To be fair, I must dispute the facts as you write them. When I left my H earlier this year, I let go. I didn't contact him at all for any reason. I even dated other people. His xw on the other hand has never ever ever stopped crying, wailing, manipulating, and begging for him to come home until after we were married.

[bentnotbroken]

26pointblue,

 

To be fair, I must dispute the facts as you write them. When I left my H earlier this year, I let go. I didn't contact him at all for any reason. I even dated other people. His xw on the other hand has never ever ever stopped crying, wailing, manipulating, and begging for him to come home until after we were married.

 

 

As was her right, until he was someone else's husband. The problem is what? Sure it isn't something I would do, but people handle the crap handed to them in different ways...as proven by your husband.

[Brokenlady]

As was her right, until he was someone else's husband. The problem is what? Sure it isn't something I would do, but people handle the crap handed to them in different ways...as proven by your husband.

 

I don't think I'd go so far as to say constant harrassment of an ex is a "right" until they marry someone else. But she is who she is. At any rate, my initial complaint wasn't about her acting so desperate - it was her putting her kids in the middle constantly to try to manipulate my H. It wasn't fair to the kids, still isn't.

Edited October 26, 2011 by Brokenlady

[NoIDidn't]

Hi BL! Welcome back.

 

I'm a little confused, but you aren't obligated to answer the questions that might alleviate a little of my confusion.

 

You had a two year affair, and he's been divorced for more than two years. But you left him earlier this year....before you married or after you married? How long have you guys been married?

 

You went through a lot getting him to the altar. I'm honestly surprised that you actually went through with it, given the amount of times you declared things over and walked away. I hope you guys are working on making this relationship work. That, or not be ashamed to walk away for good if you see its really not working (no staying together to prove others wrong).

 

Good luck and congrats!

[bentnotbroken]

I don't think I'd go so far as to say constant harrassment of an ex is a "right" until they marry someone else. But she is who she is. At any rate, my initial complaint wasn't about her acting so desperate - it was her putting her kids in the middle constantly to try to manipulate my H. It wasn't fair to the kids, still isn't.

 

 

It was as much her right(whether it was appropriate or not) to harass in response to your and his right to do what you did to her. You two made some jacked up choices and it appears from your posts that she is continuing that trend. If she stopped when you married, she afforded you a courtesy that you nor he afforded her....respect of your marriage vows. And as far as the kids, it never ceases to amaze me how people who put the mental health of kids in jeopardy in the first place can get crabby when they perceive someone else doing it. What a world.

[bittersweet memories]

Why would he leave his wife for anyone? And how is this germane to the OP and the topic at hand.

 

Correct me if I am wrong but I thought thread jacking wasn't allowed here?

 

Awe...I take it yours hasn't either..

Edited October 26, 2011 by bittersweet memories

[Brokenlady]

It was as much her right(whether it was appropriate or not) to harass in response to your and his right to do what you did to her. You two made some jacked up choices and it appears from your posts that she is continuing that trend. If she stopped when you married, she afforded you a courtesy that you nor he afforded her....respect of your marriage vows. And as far as the kids, it never ceases to amaze me how people who put the mental health of kids in jeopardy in the first place can get crabby when they perceive someone else doing it. What a world.

 

Wow. Interesting moral "logic" you got there. I'll leave it at that.

[Brokenlady]

Hi BL! Welcome back.

 

I'm a little confused, but you aren't obligated to answer the questions that might alleviate a little of my confusion.

 

You had a two year affair, and he's been divorced for more than two years. But you left him earlier this year....before you married or after you married? How long have you guys been married?

 

You went through a lot getting him to the altar. I'm honestly surprised that you actually went through with it, given the amount of times you declared things over and walked away. I hope you guys are working on making this relationship work. That, or not be ashamed to walk away for good if you see its really not working (no staying together to prove others wrong).

 

Good luck and congrats!

 

We weren't M when I left him. I left bc of the continual interference of his xw that he allowed. I was DONE. We met up by chance after he got a lot of therapy and I ended a R I had with a jerk I met in the interim. He manned up. That was all I ever wanted, he just couldn't see the need to do it for himself until he knew I was gone for good and for real.

[bentnotbroken]

Wow. Interesting moral "logic" you got there. I'll leave it at that.

 

 

As interesting as yours and his...and I will leave it at that.

[mzdolphin]

:laugh:... too funny

 

 

Truly funny.

[Brokenlady]

The percentage of affairages succeeding is very much lower than a marriage with no infidelity involved. Check it out if you don't believe it. I doubt you will. It is certainly understandable that you would feel that way in your circumstance. Good luck and God Bless.

 

I have no fear of the truth.

 

“Infidelity is the most frequently cited cause of divorce and doubles the likelihood of divorce” *(From: Baucom, Donald H.; Gordon, Kristina C.; Snyder, Douglas K.; Atkins, David C.; Christensen, Andrew. Treating Affair Couples: Clinical Considerations and Initial Findings. Journal of Cognitive Psychotherapy, December 2006, Vol. 20 Issue: Number 4 p375-392, 18p)

*

Now, we know that the divorce rate for 1st marriages is approximately between 43 and 50% depending on where you get your stats. If infidelity truly doubles the likelihood of divorce, then that suggests that very few marriages (14% or less) survive infidelity.

*

As luck would have it, there doesn’t appear to be any statistics gathered on how many marriages that happen to be the result of affairs divorce. It’s probably fair to say that a significant amount of 2nd marriages start that way, but there is likely a reluctance for people to admit that’s how their relationships started. So, the best estimate we have is the divorce rate for 2nd marriages, which most people can agree is about 60%. So that boils down to a BS/WS marriage having a 14% or less chance of survival and a fOW married to her fMM with a 40% of marriage survival. That’s the exact opposite of what you are claiming.

*

I’m well aware that what you so rudely derogate as “affairages” are the ones people love to see fail. Trouble is, the reality is that are actually more stable/better off than couples where the WS stays.

[alexandria35]

Just found this on another website. I don't know how factual it is:

 

According to CDC's National Center for Health Statistics, approximately:

3,000 couples in the U.S. get divorced each day - well over 1 million per year;

20-25% of these people are divorcing for the second or third time;

50% of all divorcing couples have children under the age of 18;

12 million U.S. families were headed by a single parent during 2000;

1 out of 3 U.S. children do not live with both parents;

17% of all children in the U.S. will suffer a divorce this year;

Second marriages will end 23% sooner than first marriages; and

Third marriages will end 43% sooner than first marriages.

 

As well, it is scientifically supported that children of divorced parents suffer a higher than average divorce rate as adults - divorce is a legacy that is passed down from one generation to the next.

 

These public divorce statistics are alarming, but most people don't have access to follow-up statistics concerning a divorce after the affair of one partner:

 

80% of couples who divorce as the result of an affair later regret their decision to divorce.*

 

And the statistics for affair-born relationships are even more extreme:



Fewer than 10% of all extramarital affair relationships will actually result in a marriage between

the two affair partners;* and

 

If an affair-born relationship does result in a marriage, 3 out of 4 of those couples can expect their new

 

marriage to also end in divorce.*

[thomasb]

BL, Had a long reply using a research paper. But decided it just isn't worth debating. Believe what you wish.

Edited October 27, 2011 by thomasb

[Elizabeth Southerns]

Just found this on another website. I don't know how factual it is:

 

According to CDC's National Center for Health Statistics, approximately:

3,000 couples in the U.S. get divorced each day - well over 1 million per year;

20-25% of these people are divorcing for the second or third time;

50% of all divorcing couples have children under the age of 18;

12 million U.S. families were headed by a single parent during 2000;

1 out of 3 U.S. children do not live with both parents;

17% of all children in the U.S. will suffer a divorce this year;

Second marriages will end 23% sooner than first marriages; and

Third marriages will end 43% sooner than first marriages.

 

As well, it is scientifically supported that children of divorced parents suffer a higher than average divorce rate as adults - divorce is a legacy that is passed down from one generation to the next.

 

These public divorce statistics are alarming, but most people don't have access to follow-up statistics concerning a divorce after the affair of one partner:

 

80% of couples who divorce as the result of an affair later regret their decision to divorce.*

 

And the statistics for affair-born relationships are even more extreme:



Fewer than 10% of all extramarital affair relationships will actually result in a marriage between

the two affair partners;* and

 

If an affair-born relationship does result in a marriage, 3 out of 4 of those couples can expect their new

 

marriage to also end in divorce.*

 

Given that those stats are US based, they apply at best to the US (assuming that they are at all accurate). There is no statistical basis to extrapolate from those statistics to other populations, such as couples where at least one person is not from the US, and where the couple is not domiciled in the US, and subject to US divorce law.

 

Given the way the claims are phrased though, e.g. "Second marriages will end 23% sooner than first marriages" I am seriously dubious of the accuracy of the claims. Any second marriage that outlasts the first, or even lasts as long as the first, falsifies this claim, and I'm sure we all know several such cases (and possibly are living them). Compiling findings from a misch-masch of studies without specifying the study designs, the constraints or limitations of the studies etc suggests cherry-picking rather than ensuring comparability of findings. It's very unlikely that these findings could all be compiled into the hotch-potch that has been committed here, with any scientific veracity. Any social scientist would be very wary of such claims. Only a certain subset of the media, or those individuals whose personal biases such claims support, would be willing to accept these claims at face value.