Married 16 yrs today and something's not right

[Shiloh 2011]

I am a professional woman. Sucessful in business and married to a university professor, who's an M.D. Today is our 16th annniversary. We have 3 young children.

 

I love my H, but we are very different types of people and were raised very differently. Ironically, we have simliar values and attitudes towards things like politics and spending, but we have very different personalities and place wildly different values on things: I like business and social mobility. I like the Wow factor in life (big house, fancy car, etc) and I lead a much healthier lifestyle (running daily, eating well). I am used to stating what I think and am direct in my communications with him and pretty much everyone else. I am also super competitive. He is more down-to-earth, doesn't like sharp-elbowed business people, is content with a modicum of possessions, and had a passion for things like alternative music, which I am ambivalent about. He's not good at stating what he thinks and complains often that my straightforwardness with him makes him uneasy. He values his work as a physician and feels that he, more than me, makes a lasting contribution to society. He once mentioned to me that it bothers him that I seem to be better at him at most everything (and he wasn't just talking about making money). He's also a great Dad.

 

Yet, in the past 2-1/2 years (1) I had a love at first sight experience with a co-worker, although no action was taken and I still think about him *constantly*, (2) my father passed away, (3) our 6 yr old son got very sick and was hospitalized twice, and (4) I quit my job, as the office politics were turning hard against me and the personal issues cited above made it difficult to focus.

 

My H and I used to fight a lot, to the point where our oldest child would ask us to stop. But as of about 5 months ago, the fighting has stopped and we can both feel the relationship crumbling. He doesn't come to bed at night with me and when we try to talk, we usually wind up disagreeing. We've seen counselors individually and together, although it's been a while. My counselor just about told me that the relationship was hopeless.

 

I felt from the beginning that I loved him, but I always had a sense that 'something was off' in the relationship.

 

With 3 precious children in the balance that mean the world to both of us, I would like advice: Should we try to make our incompatible relationship work for the long term? Do we make it work but put a timeframe on it, say 10 years, until the children are grown up? Or should we just give up now and move on? Both of us feel the relationship is broken, but we agreed last night (as an anniversary present to each other) to try to get to where we both want the relationship.

 

Thanks for helping.

 

BTW, the co-worker wrote a nice good-bye email on my last day. He never called and never will. Still, I can't get him off my mind, it's driving me nuts. Any bonus advice there would be great.

[anne1707]

BTW, the co-worker wrote a nice good-bye email on my last day. He never called and never will. Still, I can't get him off my mind, it's driving me nuts. Any bonus advice there would be great.

 

You talk about your marriage and what can you do to maybe save it, coming here for advice. Yet your final comment is about the potential OM. What (i.e. who) do you want? If you are focussing on someone else, there is no hope for your marriage.

[xxoo]

I don't know that you are incompatible. All couples have differences, and it doesn't mean they are incompatible.

 

Mostly, it sounds like you don't respect each other. And that is hard to understand, because you both sound like you have a lot of respectable qualitites and achievements! You could be very proud of each other, instead of knocking each other down.

 

It also seems like you are competing against each other. Again, makes no sense, because you would be a formidible team if you would be on the same team.

[whichwayisup]

Stop using individual counsellors and use ONE - Together.

or is the counsellor the same person for both you and him when you go alone?

 

Honestly, it sounds like YOU are ready to pull the plug on the marriage because of someone else waiting in the wings. Leave your marriage because you and your H have done EVERYTHING possible to save and salvage things. Forget this OM, he is nothing right now other than the fact he woke up feeling inside of you that you probably haven't felt in years.

 

Let me ask, how long ago did you realize your marriage isn't great, I mean to the point that you want out, and how long ago did the OM peak your interest? I'm betting that the timing of it all is questionable.

 

If you want your M to end, end it and allow time in between before going after someone else. You have kids to think about, a house to sell, finances, custody and a lot of healing before involving someone else into your life.

 

Do you love your husband? As different as you two are, do you love him? does he still have qualities that you fell for 16 years ago? Focus on those and not the ones that get you two fighting.

 

Anyway, have you tried reconnecting and going on a hot date with your husband? Had fun? When was the last time you two actuallly enjoyed eachothers company?

[Shiloh 2011]

You talk about your marriage and what can you do to maybe save it, coming here for advice. Yet your final comment is about the potential OM. What (i.e. who) do you want? If you are focussing on someone else, there is no hope for your marriage.

 

I will admit that I'd rather explore the other relationship were the opportunity to present itself (which it hasn't). However, I realize my constant thoughts about the potential OM are damaging my marriage, and I need to get rid of them. But how do you get rid of a thought of someone that automatically pops into your head while say, shopping for groceries? It's not so much that I think of him, as I feel him, if that makes sense.

 

But I know, I KNOW, that I must forget him. I need advice how to do that.

[Shiloh 2011]

Stop using individual counsellors and use ONE - Together.

or is the counsellor the same person for both you and him when you go alone?

 

Honestly, it sounds like YOU are ready to pull the plug on the marriage because of someone else waiting in the wings. Leave your marriage because you and your H have done EVERYTHING possible to save and salvage things. Forget this OM, he is nothing right now other than the fact he woke up feeling inside of you that you probably haven't felt in years.

 

Let me ask, how long ago did you realize your marriage isn't great, I mean to the point that you want out, and how long ago did the OM peak your interest? I'm betting that the timing of it all is questionable.

 

If you want your M to end, end it and allow time in between before going after someone else. You have kids to think about, a house to sell, finances, custody and a lot of healing before involving someone else into your life.

 

Do you love your husband? As different as you two are, do you love him? does he still have qualities that you fell for 16 years ago? Focus on those and not the ones that get you two fighting.

 

Anyway, have you tried reconnecting and going on a hot date with your husband? Had fun? When was the last time you two actuallly enjoyed eachothers company?

 

We did go to joint counseling quite a few times. It got us communicating more and helped make us aware of the problems, which helped a lot. But we're still fairly far apart on some issues, like what kind of lifestyle we want, and what kind of people we want to associate with.

 

As far as the OM, you are right: it did awaken feelings that I haven't had in a long time. But I ask why: Why did those few fleeting moments of staring at someone make me realize the flaws in my marriage? Why did I not see the flaws before? Why does it suddenly seem like I have something to compare my marriage to, when I don't even know this OM well?

 

Yes, I love my husband. But, but, but (as the counselor said) it's a love that infantilizes him, is not even, and therefore is not healthy.

[Shiloh 2011]

I don't know that you are incompatible. All couples have differences, and it doesn't mean they are incompatible.

 

Mostly, it sounds like you don't respect each other. And that is hard to understand, because you both sound like you have a lot of respectable qualitites and achievements! You could be very proud of each other, instead of knocking each other down.

 

It also seems like you are competing against each other. Again, makes no sense, because you would be a formidible team if you would be on the same team.

 

 

My H and I spoke last night - he admits that he doesn't like me very much and I admit that I don't respect him very much. Crazy, but true.

So where to from here?

 

And thank you, thank you. This is so helpful.

[whichwayisup]

My H and I spoke last night - he admits that he doesn't like me very much and I admit that I don't respect him very much. Crazy, but true.

So where to from here?

 

And thank you, thank you. This is so helpful.

 

Whoa, that's pretty blunt, but atleast it's honest.

 

Does he want to try to fix things or are you both thinking of ending the marriage?

 

If you DO divorce, continue with the counseling so you both can learn basic respect and get along well enough to co parent and put your kids first. Maybe a divorce would allow a common interest friendship to happen .. Based on just the kids and mutual respect as mom and dad.

[whichwayisup]

We did go to joint counseling quite a few times. It got us communicating more and helped make us aware of the problems, which helped a lot. But we're still fairly far apart on some issues, like what kind of lifestyle we want, and what kind of people we want to associate with.

 

As far as the OM, you are right: it did awaken feelings that I haven't had in a long time. But I ask why: Why did those few fleeting moments of staring at someone make me realize the flaws in my marriage? Why did I not see the flaws before? Why does it suddenly seem like I have something to compare my marriage to, when I don't even know this OM well?

 

Yes, I love my husband. But, but, but (as the counselor said) it's a love that infantilizes him, is not even, and therefore is not healthy.

 

Why didn't you see the flaws before? Well, maybe allowing and nurturing feelings for someone else made you detach from your husband. When that happens it's easy to see flaws that weren't there before, or if they were, they didn't bother you as much, enough to make you want to think of leaving and divorcing.

 

The thing is, 16 years is many years to just throw away. That's a lot of history, family entwined, a life built to just walk away without giving this a real shot and BOTH of you making a full effort to reconnect and capture what you once shared years ago. Life got in the way..Changes happen, but you two grew apart and kind of become enemies on some level. For the kids sake, you two owe it to them as well as yourselves to truly try, and if it doesnt work, then reassess and talk about divorce.

 

Family counselling might help too, with the kids, if any real changes happen with new adjustments.

[Shiloh 2011]

Can anyone else offer advice? I know my troubles are common, but I feel I'm at an important inflection point in my life. ANY advice and insight is appreciated. Thank you.

[anne1707]

I think you are not getting advice beyond counselling because it really does seem that your marriage is in a very bleak state and needs some form of intervention if it is to work. You and your husband need to start properly communicating - and that includes telling him about the potential OM - so that you both get a true understanding of what is going on between you and how you both feel. This will then allow you both to decide whether to try and make things work. The counselling will provide a safe environment to talk and work through these issues - it may even be that the counselling helps you split more amicably if that is the way things develop.

 

Nobody can tell you what to do. Not us. Not a counsellor. You have to decide that for yourself. But you can't let things drag on in the state they are and I can promise you this - your kids will pick up on their parents not being happy together and will suffer if you do not do something to resolve the situation even if through divorce.

 

I can also promise you that choosing to have an affair will do so much damage. It is the cowards way out. So please do not consider the potential OM whilst you and your H are still together.

[xxoo]

I will admit that I'd rather explore the other relationship were the opportunity to present itself (which it hasn't). However, I realize my constant thoughts about the potential OM are damaging my marriage, and I need to get rid of them. But how do you get rid of a thought of someone that automatically pops into your head while say, shopping for groceries? It's not so much that I think of him, as I feel him, if that makes sense.

 

But I know, I KNOW, that I must forget him. I need advice how to do that.

 

This guy is fantasy---escape. As fantasy, he can be whoever or whatever you want him to be. The reality would not be so wonderful.

 

I believe your thoughts of him will dwindle as your REALITY improves, and you have less need to "escape". If your marriage were giving you those kinds of good feelings, he would lose his appeal.

 

In the meantime, try picturing the reality more clearly. In reality, an affair with him would lead to an acriminous divorce, and a lot of pain for you, your H, and your kids. Not so hot.

 

My H and I spoke last night - he admits that he doesn't like me very much and I admit that I don't respect him very much. Crazy, but true.

So where to from here?

 

Sometimes just awareness and appreciation can help. Simple things like writing out 5 things you appreciate about the other, and sharing your lists with each other. Focus more on the positive, not the negative.

 

But, fundamentally, you both need to learn to respect and accept difference in your partner. It is more than ok that you excel in competitive fields and he excels in compassionate fields. In fact, that balance brings strength to the marriage and parenting team. Recognize and appreciate those qualities in the other!

 

It sounds like you've spent many years knocking each other down. To undo that, you need to invest some time buiding each other up. You need to voice praise and respect to counterbalance the atmosphere of criticism and disrespect. Think before you speak.

[Leegh]

Is it possible your co-worker is interested in you, but did not proceed with anything because of your marital status? Did you notice prolonged eye contact from him, etc.? I think you have to find out if he is interested in you or not. Speaking for myself, if I know that a guy is 100% not interested in me, it is much easier for me to get over him. Not knowing, is misery, as with me, if I didn't know how they felt, I would analyze everything over and over again, and in my opinion, it is almost a relief to know that a person is NOT interested. Lots and lots of people meet their new significiant other or spouse while at the end of their current relationship or marriage. The holiday season is a great time of year to re-establish contact with your co-worker, possibly in December you could send him a Christmas card, and suggest that he e-mail or call you; if he would like to meet you for lunch. Since I have never been married; I don't really have any experience in marital issues; but possibly if you or your husband took a vacation for a month or so, it may clarify some things. Sometimes being away from a person can help with clarity. All the best.

Edited October 15, 2011 by Leegh

[sunshinegirl]

Is it possible your co-worker is interested in you, but did not proceed with anything because of your marital status? Did you notice prolonged eye contact from him, etc.? I think you have to find out if he is interested in you or not. Speaking for myself, if I know that a guy is 100% not interested in me, it is much easier for me to get over him. Not knowing, is misery, as with me, if I didn't know how they felt, I would analyze everything over and over again, and in my opinion, it is almost a relief to know that a person is NOT interested. Lots and lots of people meet their new significiant other or spouse while at the end of their current relationship or marriage. The holiday season is a great time of year to re-establish contact with your co-worker, possibly in December you could send him a Christmas card, and suggest that he e-mail or call you; if he would like to meet you for lunch. Since I have never been married; I don't really have any experience in marital issues; but possibly if you or your husband took a vacation for a month or so, it may clarify some things. Sometimes being away from a person can help with clarity. All the best.

 

This is about the worst advice I could imagine for the OP. This guy is a fantasy/distraction/escape from serious marital issues, and there is nothing positive to be gained by chasing him.

[Shiloh 2011]

I think you are not getting advice beyond counselling because it really does seem that your marriage is in a very bleak state and needs some form of intervention if it is to work. You and your husband need to start properly communicating - and that includes telling him about the potential OM - so that you both get a true understanding of what is going on between you and how you both feel. This will then allow you both to decide whether to try and make things work. The counselling will provide a safe environment to talk and work through these issues - it may even be that the counselling helps you split more amicably if that is the way things develop.

 

Nobody can tell you what to do. Not us. Not a counsellor. You have to decide that for yourself. But you can't let things drag on in the state they are and I can promise you this - your kids will pick up on their parents not being happy together and will suffer if you do not do something to resolve the situation even if through divorce.

 

I can also promise you that choosing to have an affair will do so much damage. It is the cowards way out. So please do not consider the potential OM whilst you and your H are still together.

 

Thanks, this is great advice.

 

I have told my husband about the OM and my obsessive thoughts, but he discounts it all as sadness related to my Dad's death (my Dad and I were very close) and pretty much doesn't want to hear anything about it.

 

But an affair? No way. I would never lie like that, no matter what.

 

We've already talked about how we would try to keep any split amicable...here's to hoping that things don't get that far.

[Shiloh 2011]

This guy is fantasy---escape. As fantasy, he can be whoever or whatever you want him to be. The reality would not be so wonderful.

 

I believe your thoughts of him will dwindle as your REALITY improves, and you have less need to "escape". If your marriage were giving you those kinds of good feelings, he would lose his appeal.

 

In the meantime, try picturing the reality more clearly. In reality, an affair with him would lead to an acriminous divorce, and a lot of pain for you, your H, and your kids. Not so hot.

 

 

 

Sometimes just awareness and appreciation can help. Simple things like writing out 5 things you appreciate about the other, and sharing your lists with each other. Focus more on the positive, not the negative.

 

But, fundamentally, you both need to learn to respect and accept difference in your partner. It is more than ok that you excel in competitive fields and he excels in compassionate fields. In fact, that balance brings strength to the marriage and parenting team. Recognize and appreciate those qualities in the other!

 

It sounds like you've spent many years knocking each other down. To undo that, you need to invest some time buiding each other up. You need to voice praise and respect to counterbalance the atmosphere of criticism and disrespect. Think before you speak.

 

You are so right, all the way around: OM is an escape and I need to let go, no matter how much I don't want to or how hard it is. I need to learn to accept and respect my H, and I definitely need to think before I speak to him. Great advice. Thanks so much.

[OpenBook]

Hi Shiloh. Here's my 2 cents. My gut instinct from reading your posts is that you're projecting something onto the OM, which may or may not have anything to do with your H - and you're definitely not in a position to see the entire picture of the OM! (I would bet good money he's not as Mr. Wonderful as you think he is. No man is.)

 

There's so many other issues you're dealing with right now (job, sick child, death of parent) all at once. No wonder you're confused!!

 

In this state I don't think it's a good idea for you to make any major decisions. For now, I would just commit myself to getting to the bottom of it (figuring it out) and give yourself plenty of time. Ask your H if that's OK with him. You're still married to each other and you're still raising your kids together, so he's still your life partner and (just like running a business) you both need to row together while you're in the same canoe.

 

Although I'm skeptical about psychologists in general, if you get a good IC he/she may be able to help you figure some things out. Or a friend/relative who can be a good sounding board for you right now.

 

Any way you do it, I think it would be a good investment in yourself to try and figure some things out before you make your next move.

 

Good luck! And have some faith in yourself.

[OpenBook]

Forgot to add - I agree with other posters about concentrating on what you DO like about your H... and exactly what it was that made you marry him in the first place. Definitely worthy of careful consideration! The way you sound, you're not the kind of woman who would give a man the time of day if he wasn't worth his salt.

[whichwayisup]

Is it possible your co-worker is interested in you, but did not proceed with anything because of your marital status? Did you notice prolonged eye contact from him, etc.? I think you have to find out if he is interested in you or not. Speaking for myself, if I know that a guy is 100% not interested in me, it is much easier for me to get over him. Not knowing, is misery, as with me, if I didn't know how they felt, I would analyze everything over and over again, and in my opinion, it is almost a relief to know that a person is NOT interested. Lots and lots of people meet their new significiant other or spouse while at the end of their current relationship or marriage. The holiday season is a great time of year to re-establish contact with your co-worker, possibly in December you could send him a Christmas card, and suggest that he e-mail or call you; if he would like to meet you for lunch. Since I have never been married; I don't really have any experience in marital issues; but possibly if you or your husband took a vacation for a month or so, it may clarify some things. Sometimes being away from a person can help with clarity. All the best.

 

Sorry to knock your advice, but why would you encourage her to start something with the OM? If anything, she can pursue the OM AFTER she divorces and has time to sort though the changes and adjustments. Adding another person into her life, especially when she's still married is only going to ADD stress and make her life more confusing. Plus, she'd be cheating and that's so not cool.

[Leegh]

Sorry to knock your advice, but why would you encourage her to start something with the OM? If anything, she can pursue the OM AFTER she divorces and has time to sort though the changes and adjustments. Adding another person into her life, especially when she's still married is only going to ADD stress and make her life more confusing. Plus, she'd be cheating and that's so not cool.

You make some good points, but the reason I am encouraging her is because it sounds as if she is in love with the co-worker. She said it was love at first sight, she thinks about him constantly, she still can't get him off her mind, and she says it's driving her nuts. I was NOT saying that she should become intiminate with him while she is married, but just to have lunch to find out if there is any potential. If she waits, this co-worker may not be available anymore. If she had just said she was attracted to some other man at work, I may agree with you, but to my mind, it sounds as if she is head over heals in love with this co-worker. I have been in that situation and it is HELL, and you can't talk yourself out of not thinking about the guy. The only way is to confront the situation, and find out his feelings.

[Shiloh 2011]

You make some good points, but the reason I am encouraging her is because it sounds as if she is in love with the co-worker. She said it was love at first sight, she thinks about him constantly, she still can't get him off her mind, and she says it's driving her nuts. I was NOT saying that she should become intiminate with him while she is married, but just to have lunch to find out if there is any potential. If she waits, this co-worker may not be available anymore. If she had just said she was attracted to some other man at work, I may agree with you, but to my mind, it sounds as if she is head over heals in love with this co-worker. I have been in that situation and it is HELL, and you can't talk yourself out of not thinking about the guy. The only way is to confront the situation, and find out his feelings.

 

Yes, Leegh, you are right: I am madly in love and it is living hell. At any other time of my life, I would have left my H for this OM but I am willing now to fall on a sword for my kids, and that's so far what I've done. It's very tough to quit your job, in part, to get away from someone who you want to run towards, then turn around and try to run towards someone you feel little respect for, and then not have your best friend (my Dad) around to talk to about it. But, with all the help I've received here and through counseling, I am working through everything.

 

I need to try to want what I've got.

 

So, first, get rid of the thoughts of the OM. Second, focus on the positive aspects of my H. Third, find a place of peace in my life where I am happy living the life I have. Fourth, try to find fulfillment again when the kids are older. It's their time now, not mine.

[analystfromhell]

I was divorced from my first marriage after 17 years. A couple of things I learned:

 

- if you are waiting for your kids to live to be fulfilled and think they won't sense that and internalize it as a fault with themselves... think again.

- it's easy to "fall in love" with someone you don't wake up next to or have to ask to take out the garbage. It's hard to stay in love with someone than to fall in love with them. Which person do you think is easier to stay in love with?

- neither you nor your husband sound like you are falling on your sword for your children- the problem is internal to your marriage not an external threat.

- being miserable "for your children" makes them miserable and unhappy.

 

Fifteen to twenty years is a VERY long time. Long enough to read a "half life" like when you turn forty and start thinking about the future and getting pissed off. Not magic solutions for that I'm aware of. It's really hard to stay interested in someone that long and perhaps unrealistic to expect there won't be extended dark periods during that time. Have you discussed this with friends? How do they perceive your marriage in relationship to theirs and vice versa? Love is often a relative thing and comparisons sometimes help.

[whichwayisup]

It's really hard to stay interested in someone that long and perhaps unrealistic to expect there won't be extended dark periods during that time.

This is true and too many people these days throw in the towel.

 

It's like people need to feel happy and in love ALL the time, and if there are issues in a marriage that lead to some unhappiness, the first gut reaction is to either cheat or bail out.

 

I'm not saying you and your H haven't tried, but from what you've said already I do see more room for improvement and effort on behalf of both of you.

 

Just think throwing away a marriage and all that history without taking extra care, more effort and time to see if you and your H can work through this rough time, is a mistake.

[Shiloh 2011]

I was divorced from my first marriage after 17 years. A couple of things I learned:

 

- if you are waiting for your kids to live to be fulfilled and think they won't sense that and internalize it as a fault with themselves... think again.

- it's easy to "fall in love" with someone you don't wake up next to or have to ask to take out the garbage. It's hard to stay in love with someone than to fall in love with them. Which person do you think is easier to stay in love with?

- neither you nor your husband sound like you are falling on your sword for your children- the problem is internal to your marriage not an external threat.

- being miserable "for your children" makes them miserable and unhappy.

 

Fifteen to twenty years is a VERY long time. Long enough to read a "half life" like when you turn forty and start thinking about the future and getting pissed off. Not magic solutions for that I'm aware of. It's really hard to stay interested in someone that long and perhaps unrealistic to expect there won't be extended dark periods during that time. Have you discussed this with friends? How do they perceive your marriage in relationship to theirs and vice versa? Love is often a relative thing and comparisons sometimes help.

 

Thanks for this.

 

I can't find any friends having similar marriage issues, at least not that they will admit to me. (They have other issues.)

 

I used the term 'falling on my sword' because the reality is that I don't want to be married to my H anymore (nor him to me), if that isn't already abundantly obvious. However, I am holding off taking any action other than to try to make this work because a) of the kids and b) because people like you who've been through this, and counselors who see a lot of troubled marriages, tell me that it's a better path to try to make it work.

[Shiloh 2011]

Or: pushy, bossy, tactless, rude, in your face, lacking in social/emotional intelligence and empathy. You probably are also a terrible listener, bad at building consensus/achieving compromise, and other more intangible social/emotional skills that are just as necessary in business, marriage, and life as the obvious "Type A" skills that you are so proud of.

 

It's ok in the business world having these Type A characteristics--to a point. But it sounds like you don't realize that too much of this is a vice not a virtue.

 

Since you feel it's OK to state what you think, I've done the same thing. Of course you're not in a position where you can browbeat or bully me and that might be frustrating for you if you can't see yourself anywhere in my posts.

 

The same stuff is happening in your career and in your marriage. In life we don't always get to have everything our own way. Marriage is not a "competition" so being competitive won't help you there. Likewise, there is a very competitive aspect to business but there is also a large part of being in an organization that is not competitive, at least not overtly so.

 

If you have no clue how to play office politics--and based on your self-description, you definitely sound like one of those clueless pseudo feminist broads who just doesn't know when to keep her trap shut for her own good, or at least pick your confrontations for when you have the greatest leverage--then it's no wonder you're out of a job.

 

Interesting posts.

 

They say more about you than they do about me.