How long into a relationship before the proposal just isn't coming?

[RiverRunning]

I have seen so many women who are in 7 or 8 year long relationships (or longer) and they have never married. If they were in high school when they started dating, it's understandable. But some of these people are now in their late 20s or 30s and they're still holding onto hope that a proposal is still coming.

 

From everything I have read, on average, the odds of getting engaged start to drop at the two year mark. Around 3 years, they start to fall more sharply. At the 7 year mark, odds are virtually zero that you will ever get to the altar. I guess the going theory is that if he were certain, he'd have done it. Instead, he just drags it out out of fear of being alone/breaking up/biding his time until something better comes along so he doesn't have to spend that time being single.

 

How long would you spend in a relationship - for those who want marriage and it's non-negotiable - before you called it quits on waiting for a proposal? How long have you spent? Would you ever do that again?

 

I just celebrated my third anniversary yesterday. My cut-off is 3 1/2, 4 years. Marriage has been discussed several times. He claims he's ready but waiting on me. While I was not certain in the past, I have made it very clear my mind is made up over the last several months. He's not budging. Frankly, I think it is out of his own laziness (he is HORRIBLE when it comes to following through on things he'd like to do - getting pre-approved for a mortgage? Filling out paperwork for graduate classes?).

 

I would be shocked if he made it to a jewelry store. That alone would be impressive! (I'm saying this in a tongue-in-cheek way - I have a sense of humor about his procrastination).

 

I think he may also be projecting some of his own insecurity about getting married onto me.

 

My feeling is that life is too short to spend it on one person for years without progressing to marriage. Some things are non-negotiable.

[dawgfan]

Hey RiverRunning -

 

You sound pretty frustrated - which is totally understandable. You're hoping for marriage, but it sounds like your guy is definitely dragging his feet.

 

I know lots of other couples in your situation, and I think I understand how you're feeling. After 3 years, it's reasonable that you'd want your relationship to be committed and permanent. There's something irreplaceable and sacred about vowing to love, honor and cherish each other - for better or for worse - forever. It's not wrong to want that.

 

I didn't catch whether you and your bf are living together. If you are, to be honest, I don't think that improves your chances of getting married. I actually heard a radio show the other day about this, and one of the points that came up is that women tend to see living together as a path to marriage, while men see it as a way of putting marriage off. This may or may not be your situation, and believe me I'm not judging. Just thought it was worth mentioning.

 

Either way, you probably should have an honest heart-to-heart with your boyfriend about where your relationship is headed. You deserve to know if he's really serious about getting married - and as with anything, actions speak louder than words.

 

Take good care.

 

dawgfan

[Duckduckgoose]

Dang, that radio show was good.

 

FYI, I lived with my exH before we got married. Notice I said exH.

 

If your boyfriend won't commit to you, show him the door, he's getting everything he wants without you getting everything you want. Guess who loses in this situation? Hint... its not him. Unless you leave.

[Eddie Edirol]

If he is dragging his feet, he doesnt really want to marry you. Doesnt matter if he procrastinates with everything else. Im sure theres things he does that he wastes no time on at all. Bail out now.

[bigguy02]

I think women place way to much importance on marriage. I felt absolutely no different after I got married. To be fair me and my W had been living together for around 2 years at that point and we shared a bank account. the only difference was a set of rings and a legal document. I have a set of friends that were together for 18 years before they got married (and they only did it for financial reasons) 2 yers later they might be getting a divorce. My feeling is that not everyone has to be married to be happy. If you are in a committed relationship and vow to each other to hold that above all else what the difference?

[aerogurl87]

If he hasn't proposed after 3 years I'm out the door. I would leave if you really want to be married and he's dragging his feet. My boyfriend ad I moved in together back in March and ever since then he's been expecting me to be the perfect wife (ex. I clean all the dishes, cook all the food, buy all the groceries, and do all the laundry) while he comes up with every excuse to put off an engagement. His reasons now are valid (I'm just not into the idea of marrying him anymore) but that seems to be pushing him in the right direction more now, guess he doesn't want to lose out on a good thing.

[norajane]

I think he may also be projecting some of his own insecurity about getting married onto me.

 

It might be a good idea to talk to him about that. Maybe he is afraid of getting married, and it would be a relief for him to talk with you about it. Let him tell you what his fears are. It might help both of you understand each other better.

[RiverRunning]

Today turned out to be a very difficult day. I was at a party my sister-in-law was hosting and her sister, Jana, was there. Jana and her boyfriend have been dating at least a year but no longer than two years. I saw she was sportin' a ring on the ol' left hand, but knowing that many people wear jewelry on both hands nowadays, I didn't want to make mention of it (since she wasn't making a big deal out of it). Shortly before I left, I overheard her telling her mother she had gone looking at wedding dresses, so that confirmed it.

 

Jealousy is such an irrational and stupid thing. Someone else's happiness doesn't detract from my own.

 

We do live together and have for about 7 months. We discussed our intentions before I moved in and we both agreed that this was only a step toward marriage. We both initially agreed that we would not want to wait longer than a year after my move-in to marry (the 3 1/2 year mark).

 

It's been puzzling because on the one hand, I know my boyfriend has been jealous when he has heard about others' engagements, weddings and even pregnancies. It struck him particularly hard when he heard that his younger sister was trying for a baby. So at the same time, it was head scratch-worthy that nothing ever came of it.

 

I did tell him about my sister-in-law's sister and his reaction did surprise me. He's told me he's been thinking about it multiple times a day for the last few months, but he wants to avoid doing anything around the holidays because that's 'hectic enough.' I told him that I do not want to be in the position we're in now a year from now - I feel it's time to either progress or move on.

 

His response was that it would take him "no where near" a year to propose and that he's "very excited" to have me as his wife. I admit I'll probably be a skeptic until a proposal comes, but his response did seem very enthusiastic. The fact he's discussing it with me at all and sharing his own time-lines put it into sharper focus.

 

I get that marriage is not the same for everyone and I don't expect to feel any different. But it says something about a person's devotion when they choose to get married - that takes a great deal of confidence to undertake a potential lifetime together. Not to mention numerous benefits not awarded in a domestic live-in or civil union situation, which would require tons of paperwork otherwise (and even then there are still benefits I could not receive). I'm not religious, nor am I conservative, but if a person doesn't feel confident enough to commit to me, I don't know if I could feel confident enough to commit to having a child with that person.

 

There is no intrinsic value to marriage, emotionally speaking - it's not the sort of thing I think is going to make my relationship feel different. I'm glad there are folks who are happy with or without it - but I'm not one of them. If nothing else, living together DOES Put a great deal of pressure on the relationship that otherwise would not be there if both parties were married (not saying this is the reason I'd like to get married). In our respective families and culture, married and unmarried couples are treated differently and that can add layers of pressure.

[Metis]

Bigguy02 makes a good point. I really wish women would not be under this tremendous social pressure to get married. I wish a woman past, say, 30, who is still unmarried and childless (and not engaged) were not generally treated like less of a person just because some guy didn't validate her with a marriage certificate -- and the assumption being, of course, that she wasn't good enough for anyone. I wish officious do-gooders in women's families and writers of so-called "self-help" books didn't browbeat women into lowering their expectations and settling for somebody, anybody, just so they could escape the stigma of being unmarried. I wish women weren't slammed for being unmarried while, at the same time, being slammed for their anxiety over marriage. I think women's lives would be a lot happier and more enjoyable if they weren't socialized to take this relentlessly goal-oriented approach to relationships and didn't spend their best years hunting after status that gives women few benefits but greatly increases their responsibilities.

 

Alright, that's the end of this morning's feminist rant. However deplorable the reasons, marriage is an important goal to a lot of women and being unmarried is stigmatizing. And for those women, a few tips are in order. It goes without saying that men are much less eager to get married in general (not being under the same social pressures an' all). At the same time, however, men are generally very attached to domestic routines and hate to upset the apple cart, preferring to keep the balance by almost any means, up to and including getting married despite not really wanting to. That's what explains a lot of those marriages that occur at the end of 7 years of dating and living together, followed by a 5-year engagement. In fact, one of the reasons the divorce rate is so high is that there is a substantial number of people, most of them men, who get married just so they don't have to rent an apartment and call a van to move their stuff. Waiting so many years to get married isn't just unconscionably long; but proposals that finally ensue are insincere and marriages that follow quickly turn miserable and usually lead to a divorce.

 

Contrary to what movies and books about roping misbehaving men into marriage tell us, being legally bound does not make any problems between two people work themselves out somehow; instead, it magnifies and exacerbates them. The ONLY way to go into marriage is with an eager and enthusiastic consent by BOTH parties. And, marriage should be a means to an end, not an end in itself (so, curse all those "self-help" books and articles that present marriage as an accomplishment that ends a process on a happy note). "But," one might say, "People need time to really get to know each other!" Actually, unless you are willingly closing your eyes on certain things, a few months together is more than enough to get to know each other as much as a couple can without actually combining finances, having children and growing old side-by-side.

 

In terms of numbers, I would say that if there is no proposal after a couple of years, and no serious, goal-oriented talk of marriage, and the woman in the relationship wants to get married, it is time for her to move on. It would be unwise for her to wait any longer, and even she finally received a proposal after a few more years, it would be unwise of her to marry the guy at that point. Plus, engagements should be reasonably short, with the date set at the time of the engagement or shortly thereafter. So, if it's two years in and no cigar or at least cigar smoke, I'd say she should leave without explaining the reason (to avoid an insincere proposal).

[dawgfan]

I really don't want to debate whether women place too much importance on marriage. I care about you, RiverRunning, and I think you deserve more than what you're getting from your relationship right now. Your feelings about Jana's engagement and your desire that your guy be devoted and committed enough to marry you are not irrational. Not at all.

 

In fact, it's OK to think that marriage would change your relationship, and your feelings about it. Yes, there are social pressures and pragmatic reasons for getting married, but IMO it's not just a matter of "taking care of business." From what you've shared, I sense that you'd feel something if your guy popped the question, and that you might be moved to tears if he stood before a minister or a judge and vowed to stay by your side for life.

 

I say this as a friend, but also as someone who's been married for almost 25 years. We plan to celebrate our anniversary with a dinner honoring our family and a mutual love that has grown deeper and richer over time. Our family is far from perfect - we've had money problems, job loss, health issues, in-law issues, kid problems, etc., etc., etc. But at the end of the day, I can tell you with certainty that we'd do it all over again (except maybe we'd be smarter about a few things - LOL). Life brings pretty much the same issues whether or not you're married, but there's a deep sense of gratitude and blessing that comes from having faced them with someone who pledged to stay with you for better or for worse. And, for us, the "better" has far outweighed the "worse."

 

We do come from a faith perspective, and I know a lot of people think it's outdated - but it means a great deal to us to be fully committed to each other, our vows, and something higher than ourselves. I know quite a few people who think this is something they can't have or shouldn't expect these days. But it can happen, and there's nothing wrong with wanting it for yourself.

 

Bless you.

 

dawgfan

Edited October 25, 2011 by dawgfan

[Eternal Sunshine]

I would seriously discuss marriage at 1.5 year mark and will be out of there if the proposal doesn't come after 2 years.

 

I am 9 months in with my boyfriend, living together for 2 months and not even a mention of proposal.

 

We are in early 30's.

[allina]

I think it depends so much on age and where you are in life.

 

I would say this though; I would never want to have to pressure, plead or push a man to marry me. I feel like the desire to marry needs to actively be there for both partners in order to have a successful marriage.

 

I know you said it in a "tongue and cheek" way but if your bf is resisting getting his mortgage approval, signing up for grad school and proposing I would take his lack of actions as a serious sign.

[lostcharm]

Well Gene Simmons did it after 28 years....

[Eeyore79]

I think it depends greatly on the age of the couple concerned. A very young couple (teenagers or college kids) obviously shouldn't expect to get married within a couple of years. But once you hit your late twenties, I think 2-3 years is enough time to decide if you want to marry someone or not. You're (hopefully!) a mature adult and know what you want from life, and from a partner, so it shouldn't take any longer than three years to make a decision. Plus at that age you can't really afford to waste more than three years on someone who won't commit!

 

So to my way of thinking: Less than one year is too soon because you don't know the person well enough, between 1-3 years is ideal, and if a relationship went past the three year mark without a proposal, I'd get restless and would be on my way out the door before our fourth anniversary... Unfortunately, some people know for sure that they don't want to marry their partner, but string them along because it's convenient and comfortable and they currently don't have anyone else. This is why you need a cut-off date of around three years - give the relationship a decent chance but move on if it obviously isn't going anywhere.

 

Also I think that moving in with someone is a bad idea. People think they can buy more time because the partner who wants marriage can be temporarily pacified by the apparent commitment of moving in together, even though it means little or nothing in real terms. Once you've moved in, there's no incentive to get married because you're already living together and marriage wouldn't change anything - the reluctant partner is getting the milk without buying the cow! Also if you live together it's much harder to walk away if the relationship isn't going anywhere, and you end up being one of those sad people who hang on hopefully for years when their partner obviously has no intention of marrying them. I won't live with someone before getting engaged, as I don't want to entangle my whole life and finances with someone who may not be sticking around, plus I think that living together reduces the incentive for someone to marry you, and I want to be free to walk away if a commitment isn't forthcoming.

 

Even worse is the man who proposes to keep the woman happy, and then they never get married. They may even buy a house and have kids, but they never marry - his usual excuse is that they can't afford it because they now have kids/mortgage. If I got engaged I'd want to set a wedding date within the next two years. Three years dating plus two years engaged - I think half a decade is more than sufficient to be sure that you want to be with someone! I know one sad woman who's been engaged for almost a decade...

Edited November 10, 2011 by Eeyore79

[RiverRunning]

I think you really need to know how to negotiate the living together before marriage issue. I am amazed at how many women never discuss that they want it to lead to marriage (and want it to be so for the man too), never set up a timeline together, etc.

 

I feel I rocked that part. We discussed finances (our financial lives are completely separate), housework, the timeline, etc. Of course, there are men out there who know all the right answers - but hopefully after at least a few years of dating, you know if/when your partner is pulling your strings or not.

 

Ideally, I think couples should move in only after an engagement and a date for the wedding is set...just to ensure you won't stick around for ages.

 

But I have made it very clear to my partner that I have my own life, I am happy in it, and my happiness is of great importance to me. I have told him that I will move on - he knows that I mean it.

 

His procrastination is troubling and has been a source of some resentment in the relationship. I am preparing for the worst (working as much as I can/saving up/looking into getting my own place) and hoping for the best at the same time. My deadline is April 17th.

[flowers_4_algernon]

Hey River Running, I specifically joined this forum after reading your post. Seems like we may have something in common!!!

 

Whilst my relationship is a bit more complicated, we will have been together for three years in Feb 2012. We still do not live together, I have my own house and he is renting. He does not want to live with me as he doesn't want to feel like I could 'kick him out' anytime which is fair enough. He has told me that moving in together is a big step and he is afraid it would ruin things for us (copping out???).

 

I do know that he loves me very much, we are both 29 and we have been through some hard stuff together. He told me that he definitely does not want children for the next 5 years and I honestly am not even sure if I want children at all. He says he is not ready to settle down (get married have kids) yet but says he knows I'm the one he wants to be with. Although I do not want to get married right away, I guess it's the uncertainty of what you said - what if you just spent all this time together for nothing??

 

Deep down I have a very small fear that he might be stringing me along, although I know he's not the kind of guy to do that. What it will boil down to is TIMING - will we both still be together, and in love by the time we are both ready to commit?

 

He is from another country, so if we wanted to we could have lived together and gone defacto and he would have gotten his permanent visa by now. But yet he insists on applying for it through his work - once again another sign that he doesn't want to be 'stuck' in a situation where someone else may have the upper hand?!?!

 

You didn't mention how old your partner is, but I think men younger than 35 still view themselves as 'young' whilst for women at age 35 it seems to society that our 'shelf life' is already over.

 

I am still thinking long and hard over what *I* want, I am definitely not ready for marriage yet but at the same time I can relate to how you feel when many of my friends who started their relationships either same time as us or after us have already been married or are getting engaged, etc.

 

Damned if you, damned if you don't!!! :love:

[RiverRunning]

Nice name, Algernon.

 

Some of your boyfriend's stalling tactics remind me of mine earlier in the relationship. He wanted to live together and I didn't - "It would ruin things," "It's too soon," etc. But for me, what it really boiled down to was a fear that he wasn't the person I ultimately wanted to be with.

 

You're both hovering around 30 and you've been together for 3 years. I'm a few years younger. My S/O is 28, so he's just now getting into that point where things are falling together. In January, he was hired into an excellent job at a major university in our area. He's very happy with it and told me that he could see himself there in 30 or 40 years. That was roughly around the time that he started getting very serious about us living together and about us getting married, although so far no action has been taken...

 

I understand, to an extent, his life circumstances. It makes sense that now that he feels settled in his job, he's thinking about settling down. He did apply to grad school but there's a hold-up. However, he did tell me that for him, grad school is a very stressful prospect and he mentioned that that combined with his own desire to propose, he's feeling stressed out (it's been months since I've brought up getting engaged to him).

 

I think you really need to take a look, Algernon. Does he have a good, steady job where he's happy? Does he make a good amount of money? What are his personal views on marriage (did someone close to him have a nasty divorce? Does he think that marriage will help or hinder your relationship?)? But more than that - has he ever brought up marriage with you? If he hasn't at this point, my feeling is that he probably never will.

 

Has he 'sowed his oats' and dated a decent amount of women, or has his love life been scarce? The latter might mean he'll be hesitant about getting hitched because he's worried about settling down.

 

At the end of the day, you would know him best. If he's not giving you a set time line by now (and for sure, some men might say, "We will be engaged between February and April 2012," and then never follow through), then you certainly deserve one from him.

[pastdue]

Putting a timeline on a marriage proposal is dangerous business. You will resent that you had to put an altimatum on him to get him to propose. And he will do the same. When a guy is getting all of the benefits of marriage, ie, sex, companionship ect, why would he commit. If the milk is free, why buy the cow. My guess is that he doesn't fully respect you in every way or he is fearful that there is a problem somewhere in the relationship.

 

Would you want your future daughter being strung along like this? He should be treating you at least as good as you would want your future daughter treated. Stop the sex and move out as soon as possible. Even if you have to move back with Mom and Dad. Admitt to yourself and others that you made a mistake and that you will treat yourself with more respect and demand more respect going forward. You will no longer ever give away the milk without them first buying the cow. If he comes running to you with a ring, you will know where he stands. If he doesn't, then you know where he is at. You have full control over this. If he really wants to marry you, you don't need to wait until April 17. Do this now. If there is a lease on the property you are renting, offer to pay your share until the lease is up. You will be able to afford it cause you won't need to pay rent to your parents while you are living wth them.

Good Luck!

[Negative Nancy]

here's my prediction for my own relationship: my bf is gonna propose to me next x-mas (2012) in Paris.

 

how do I know? he mentioned that he had thought about where to propose etc. in one conversation. in another, totally unrelated conversation a couple days later, he mentioned that we should look for tickets to paris around x-mas and if i wasn't interested in seeing paris at least once either? not this x-mas, but next x-mas. so i'm thinking that must be his plan. guys sometimes are really predictable

 

get back to me next year, guys, and let's see if my hunch was right.

 

(if not other circumstances prevent the whole thing)

[Unfamyaccinee]

Âû íå ïðàâû. Äàâàéòå îáñóäèì..

[allina]

I think you really need to know how to negotiate the living together before marriage issue.

 

I disagree. We cannot negotiate someone's will to marry us. Relationships aren't guaranteed to end in marriage if you "play your cards right." Sometimes things just don't work out.

 

Further, I believe that living together is extremely helpful in determining if a couple is truly a great fit for the long run. I know that there are many women who come through LS saying that after years of living together their bf still hasn't proposed, but I'm willing to bet that had they not moved in with these bfs there would still be no proposal/marriage.

[Eeyore79]

Further, I believe that living together is extremely helpful in determining if a couple is truly a great fit for the long run.

I disagree. I don't think living together is a good test of what it will be like being married, because you're not married. You treat each other differently when you live together - you're aware that the person might walk away so you don't invest fully in the relationship, you essentially keep your lives and finances and life plans separate, you think of yourself as an individual, and while you care about each other you're still just two people who happen to live together.

 

When you get married, everything changes. You accept that this person is with you for better or worse, you become less selfish and make more effort to make the relationship work and make your spouse happy. You think less like an individual and more like a couple, you think about what's best for US rather than ME. Your relationship becomes deeper and closer, and you give an awful lot more than you'd be prepared to give to someone you were just dating.

 

So I don't think living together is a good test run for marriage. Living together is nothing like marriage. In fact, couples who live together before marriage are generally more dissatisfied with their marriages, because they're still in the habit of treating each other as temporary fixtures like they did before they got married.

 

 

I know that there are many women who come through LS saying that after years of living together their bf still hasn't proposed, but I'm willing to bet that had they not moved in with these bfs there would still be no proposal/marriage.

That may be true - but it would have been a lot easier to end the relationship and move on if they hadn't been living together. Once you live together, it's very difficult to disrupt your whole life and walk away if the person won't commit. If those women hadn't lived with their boyfriends, by now they might have dumped him and met someone else who wanted to marry them, rather than being stuck in this living arrangement with someone who won't commit.

 

I don't think that avoiding living together will make someone propose - but it allows you to easily walk away if they don't.

[sweetjasmine]

So I don't think living together is a good test run for marriage. Living together is nothing like marriage. In fact, couples who live together before marriage are generally more dissatisfied with their marriages, because they're still in the habit of treating each other as temporary fixtures like they did before they got married.

 

I don't think this is necessarily true across the board. My now fiancé and I didn't treat each other like temporary fixtures, and we've always thought of 'us' rather than 'me.' For us, living together has been a test run, and we've been planning our lives together, even though we haven't combined our finances.

 

I don't think living together is automatically one thing or the other. It's what you make of it.

[CandyGirlXO]

Just want to say that I'm in the same boat you are, and it's awful.

 

This January will be 3 years. We've lived together for 2. I'm 29, freaking about turning 30, he is 32 without a care in the world. We actually own our condo together, and we even bought 2 puppies together.

 

All of this, I of course thought a proposal was coming, and I think I've been patient. However, I can only take so much. Here is my take on it. We are older, we have careers, not just a job, we own property, we have had other relationships, we have no children (which for me I won't have children till I'm married), sooooo where is my damn ring? LOL.

 

What made me really snap finally was a mixture of almost being 30, all my hopes and dreams of getting married in my 20's, AND our countless number of friends who are getting married/engaged and we've been together longer.

 

It puts me in a foul mood everytime they ask me, not to mention that my bf and I have rarely discussed it. I eventually blew up! I told him this isn't how I pictured my life, that I'm frustrated, that I don't want to be like some people we know in 7+ years relationships.

 

I told him that this wasn't an ultimatium but I wanted to know where this was going. He told me to put my walls down, I told him to put a ring on it. He told me he put down all his walls for me, I told him thats easy for him to do because he doesn't care about getting married. I told him he was dragging his feet, and that I could find someone that wants to marry me.

 

It was a brutal conversation, never one that I thought I would have, but thats life. We went ring shopping last week, and he told his parents he was going to pop the question.

 

Not ideal, but if the end result is the same, I guess it really doesn't matter how you got there.

 

I was ready to leave, because I'm not getting any younger. Good luck to you, and to all the single ladies.

[Eddie Edirol]

I don't think this is necessarily true across the board. My now fiancé and I didn't treat each other like temporary fixtures, and we've always thought of 'us' rather than 'me.' For us, living together has been a test run, and we've been planning our lives together, even though we haven't combined our finances.

 

I don't think living together is automatically one thing or the other. It's what you make of it.

 

You HAVE to live together first before getting married. Eeyeore, youre so willing to walk away from a guy that hesitates to marry you, what makes you think a guy isnt willing to walk away from you after youre married, living together, and finds out you could be a horrible nag hiding in a nice girls package?

 

You have to know how a woman will be living together, to know if you can stand living with her. people can be totally different after you wake up with them everyday. A woman who doesnt know for sure if a guy seriously intends to marry her (after a year) has obviously ignored many red flags in order to accomplish her agenda. Living together is a major compatibility issue just like sex and, well other things, and you cant wait until you cross the altar to find out your new wife nags you for every little thing in the house, or she wont negotiate in terms of whos stuff should go where.