Do men avoid settling as women get older?

[Quiet Storm]

Indeed it is a very nasty double standard. Because I'm sure the women he would have been with would not count whatsoever towards his own"specialness". And let me get this straight, he watches porn where girls are presented that have been with lots of men and gets off on THAT, yet at the same time he sees fit to make a nasty judgement on a woman at 35 that might have a few sexual partners? Madonna-Whore-complex much? If men wanted these so-called "pure, special women" that have waited just for him and have let no other men touch her until HE came along, as you claim, then why are so many men watching porn and even putting those porn girls above their own SOs when these exact porn girls are anything BUT virgins? and they claim it's always men that are so much more logical, yeah yeah....

 

 

It's just not logical to us. To them, it makes perfect sense.

 

I don't think men expect women to be perfectly pure virgins. But I think the number does matter to them. I think they want their wife to be discerning. They don't want to think she'll give it up to anyone. Anything that is easily available becomes less valuable.

 

I think that most men who watch porn don't want a wife like that. She is good to look at while masturbating, but most wouldn't want a family with her.

 

Their ideal woman for a one night stand (or jerk off session) and a long term marriage will be totally different. How is that illogical?

 

One is for thirty minutes of fun, the other they will live with for rest of their life. One is for physical pleasure, the other is for love and companionship.

 

It makes perfect sense to me. I don't get why so many women expect men to think like we do.

[Beachgirl8]

Sheesh.

 

I am 35 AND a single mom. So I fall into the "least desireable" category according to some men my age. SOME men will refuse to consider me as a possibility.

 

When I was 17 and my boyfriend was 19, he died in a car accident, officially preventing me from following a path such as Quiet Storm's.

 

Some ensuing poor decisions on my part had me bumbling through a few not-ideal relationships up until age 32. I've been single since then.

 

Since becoming single I've never, ever felt like I am of less value as a human being or worth less than young girls. I'm just different than them now and will appeal to a different subset of men. I'm also more mature, responsible, empathetic towards others, professionally successful, and a bunch of other things that can potentially make me MORE attractive to some men.

 

Ive learned a lot of lessons the hard way, but I did learn them. And I'm not going to be told that I'm of less value than a younger woman, because I'm not.

 

I'm also not bitter, mad, foot stomping or anything else like that. And believe it or not, in my aged state, I am still not lacking for attention from decent men. It's certainly different from when i was single last time at 25, but I'm adjusting and I still feel optimistic that I can have a partner. No need to give up and join a knitting guild and obtain 20 cats. I'm ok.

[Metis]

Their ideal woman for a one night stand (or jerk off session) and a long term marriage will be totally different. How is that illogical?

 

One is for thirty minutes of fun, the other they will live with for rest of their life. One is for physical pleasure, the other is for love and companionship.

 

It makes perfect sense to me. I don't get why so many women expect men to think like we do.

 

We don't all think the same. Some of us also view men that way -- some good only for physical pleasure, others for love and companionship. And to a lot of women, that makes sense. Now, if we should be accepting of certain kinds of conduct by men because it makes sense to them -- shouldn't then men be more accepting of conduct by women that makes sense to those women? If we can't dictate to them how their sexuality should function, why should they be able to dictate to use about ours? If we can't judge them for the way they are, shouldn't they refrain from judging us for the way we are?

 

As for "logic" -- sadly, it's one of those concepts that are poorly understood and often invoked in a way that's erroneous. Drives, desires and emotions are not inherently logical (and if you realize that anger, insecurity over a partner's sexual past, competitiveness, and so on, are also emotions, you will realize that men are just as "emotional" as women, and just as willing to act impulsively). Instead, logic is a way for getting from point A to point B. The desire to marry a tall blond may be "emotional" to you, but limiting one's dating to tall blonds is a logical approach to making that happen.

[grkBoy]

Sheesh.

 

I am 35 AND a single mom. So I fall into the "least desireable" category according to some men my age. SOME men will refuse to consider me as a possibility.

 

When I was 17 and my boyfriend was 19, he died in a car accident, officially preventing me from following a path such as Quiet Storm's.

 

Some ensuing poor decisions on my part had me bumbling through a few not-ideal relationships up until age 32. I've been single since then.

 

Since becoming single I've never, ever felt like I am of less value as a human being or worth less than young girls. I'm just different than them now and will appeal to a different subset of men. I'm also more mature, responsible, empathetic towards others, professionally successful, and a bunch of other things that can potentially make me MORE attractive to some men.

 

Ive learned a lot of lessons the hard way, but I did learn them. And I'm not going to be told that I'm of less value than a younger woman, because I'm not.

 

I'm also not bitter, mad, foot stomping or anything else like that. And believe it or not, in my aged state, I am still not lacking for attention from decent men. It's certainly different from when i was single last time at 25, but I'm adjusting and I still feel optimistic that I can have a partner. No need to give up and join a knitting guild and obtain 20 cats. I'm ok.

 

Don't be so hard on yourself. I think in the end, the single mom has a better chance with the more matured nice guys who aren't total doormats. The hot-looking alpha males though will pursue "young and hot", athough many guys I've noticed who I see as "alpha male type" also seem vehemently against commitment..."marriage is a trap", yadda yadda yadda.

 

A single mom only looks bad in the eyes of a man who either hates kids 100%, or a man who has been brainwashed to think all single moms are "damaged goods"...

 

...OR when her life is just an absolute mess, possibly combined with little to offer a man if she were childless.

 

In the past when I had some friends try to turn me on to some single moms...I didn't reject them because they had a kid or two, but because these women were obese and/or couldn't hold a normal job and/or had little to no time to date. However, I see plenty of hot milfs with stable lives get plenty of attention from men.

 

Only thing I think that changes is when the single mom still craves the "bad boys" or "hard-to-get" guys the young and hotter women are also craving. Unfortunately there it's hard to convince the man with loads of easy options to give the single mom a shot...much as it's hard to convince the hot girl with many options to give the nice guy a shot.

 

Change up who you're looking for, because even an attractive single mom will get guys interested. Some guys want the childless hot young girl and they will deal with her immaturity and drama...others just want a woman who isn't an overgrown teenager and yet still looks decent to the eye.

[Sanman]

Indeed it is a very nasty double standard. Because I'm sure the women he would have been with would not count whatsoever towards his own"specialness". And let me get this straight, he watches porn where girls are presented that have been with lots of men and gets off on THAT, yet at the same time he sees fit to make a nasty judgement on a woman at 35 that might have a few sexual partners? Madonna-Whore-complex much? If men wanted these so-called "pure, special women" that have waited just for him and have let no other men touch her until HE came along, as you claim, then why are so many men watching porn and even putting those porn girls above their own SOs when these exact porn girls are anything BUT virgins? and they claim it's always men that are so much more logical, yeah yeah....

 

Neither is it fair that the average woman can walk into a bar and walk out with a casual sex partner easily while the average man cannot. In order for judgment to be even, this has to be even as well.

[Negative Nancy]

Neither is it fair that the average woman can walk into a bar and walk out with a casual sex partner easily while the average man cannot. In order for judgment to be even, this has to be even as well.

 

that's entirely in the hands of men. if they wouldn't be such slaves to their urges, they could even the playing field very easily.

[Sanman]

No one said 35 year old women were worthless (at least I never have). The OP asked about why she was not attracting doctors and later wondered whether she could get a 28 year old resident.

 

An LS parable from the guy's side:

 

20 year old virgin ask for advice. He is told to work hard and get a good job. He does so.

 

Same guy comes back at 25, just out of med school. He still can't get a lot of interest from women. He is told to work out more and get in shape.

 

He is back at 29. Doing better, but still struggling with women. He is told he works too hard and needs to get better at communicating with women.

 

He is back at 32. He is settled down and finally having success with all the 25-29 year old hotties he handle. LS now tells him that he is a shallow misogynist and needs to date women his own age.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

Plenty of guys are interested in women as people. Plenty of men are interested in women their own age. Of course, it becomes harder for everyone as masses of people go off the market; that's just a numerical fact. But the only thing applying generalizations this way does is make your life unhappy and tell the universe to reinforce such beliefs by bringing you those kind of men.

 

I believe there are lots of great men out there, and I know lots of great men. If I only believed there were shallow, selfish, petty, horrible men out there, I bet those would be the men I noticed! Just how the mind works. You think about brown things in the room, you suddenly see more brown things and miss all the blue ones.

 

Well, that is a more balanced perspective Zengirl.

[ScreamingTrees]

There seems to be a tendency in this forum to look for things we can't control as an excuse for not finding a partner. It's appealing because it lets people avoid responsibility for not attracting the right people. If we can rationalize that "Men only like young women" or "Women only like rich men" or "Women won't date me because I'm not 6'7"", then we can tell ourselves that there's nothing we can do about our lack of dates, it's not our fault, and it's just not fair. I think it's better to take responsibility for ourselves and acknowledge that if we're not attracting people it's our fault and we need to fix it.

 

I agree, but honestly, what if it really IS one's fault - but not in a "fixable" way. Although I doubt few people are really that universally bad looking, what if these things that we can't control are making it much harder for us to even get our foot in the door? What if these guys have tried to fix their perceived flaws and tried to be more outgoing, but even if they HAD a nice personality, they'd get turned down? For arguments sake.

 

I'm not saying I or anyone on here specifically has a nice personality, that's not for someone to decide about themselves, I hope.. I mean, I can personally take responsibility for being an ugly wimpy looking bastard, but what if I couldn't fix it, even if it was somehow my fault for having an aesthetically unpleasing, asymetrical face and a stringbean physique?

[Beachgirl8]

No one said 35 year old women were worthless (at least I never have). The OP asked about why she was not attracting doctors and later wondered whether she could get a 28 year old resident.

 

An LS parable from the guy's side:

 

20 year old virgin ask for advice. He is told to work hard and get a good job. He does so.

 

Same guy comes back at 25, just out of med school. He still can't get a lot of interest from women. He is told to work out more and get in shape.

 

He is back at 29. Doing better, but still struggling with women. He is told he works too hard and needs to get better at communicating with women.

 

He is back at 32. He is settled down and finally having success with all the 25-29 year old hotties he handle. LS now tells him that he is a shallow misogynist and needs to date women his own age.

 

I guess the lesson in either case, male or female, is to not become bitter and jaded from the times when you are less desirable to the opposite sex. And during the times when you are most desirable, to not let your ego take over, and still treat the opposite sex with respect.

[Metis]

He is back at 32. He is settled down and finally having success with all the 25-29 year old hotties he handle. LS now tells him that he is a shallow misogynist and needs to date women his own age.

 

Sorry, Sanman, but that's a strawman. I haven't seen anyone on LS telling a man that he is a shallow misogynist simply because he dates women who are 3-7 years younger than him. The accusation of misogyny props up usually when there is a dose of meanness thrown in -- like dating "all the hotties he can handle" is some kind of revenge for not getting any back when he had more zits than brains, or when people talk about 40+ men dating 20-year-old women with the implication that women over 30 might as well roll over and die.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

Why would I be bitter about that? I am one of those successful men....it is Dr. Sanman after all. I may not always like it, but don't try and change society though. I simply found a good woman who liked me for a variety of reasons and am happy in my relationship

.

 

You tell me. I've seen you express a lot of bitterness over this board. *shrug*.

 

If everyone in society was like you, we'd still have slaves. Nothing in society would change and clearly many things in society are always evolving and changing.

 

Do you tell your girlfriend how you feel about her aging?

 

Oh, please qualify that statement. You really do sound like the male virgins on this board.

 

No I don't. You just can't think anything more logical or intelligent to say so you went in for the cheap shot. Again, something you are rather known to do.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

It's because they LOVE them--the individual.

 

I don't think my grandparents look at other people in their 80s and 90s and think they are incredibly beautiful, but I am sure that my grandfather looks at my grandmother and thinks she is beautiful. And not for what she does for him, but for who she is.

 

About porn--you should broaden your horizons. Go to a major site and look at the "mature" or "wife" or "milf" links. Read the comments. There is a lot of appreciation for real women, and you can find that evidence if you look for it.

 

Other than that, I cosign Zengirl's post! I know a lot of awesome men, who are wildly attracted to women over 35

 

We aren't talking about people in their 80s and 90s..We are talking about 30 year olds.

 

I have gone to major porn sites and I have seen "milf" porn and the women usually have had so much work done , or at the most are only in their early 30s or even late 20s, that it's a big joke to even call it "milf". I have never see "milf" porn that showed a real looking mom type with no work done.

[Quiet Storm]

We don't all think the same. Some of us also view men that way -- some good only for physical pleasure, others for love and companionship. And to a lot of women, that makes sense. Now, if we should be accepting of certain kinds of conduct by men because it makes sense to them -- shouldn't then men be more accepting of conduct by women that makes sense to those women? If we can't dictate to them how their sexuality should function, why should they be able to dictate to use about ours? If we can't judge them for the way they are, shouldn't they refrain from judging us for the way we are?

 

 

 

I agree, but it's not a perfect world. We all make judgements about people, and we all hate to be judged.

 

Men shouldn't judge women for their # of partners, but many do. Women shouldn't judge men for watching porn, but many do.

 

That's just how people are, IMO. Right or wrong, it's the way it is.

 

I get judged all the time for marrying a black guy. To some, I'm not as valuable because of that. I must be damaged goods. Or on welfare. Or fat. Or ugly. Or ghetto. Or I have daddy issues. Or I'm mentally unstable. No white guys must've wanted me. I'm only with him because of his big, black c0ck.

 

To some it's unfathomable that a healthly, stable, cute, physically fit woman would CHOOSE a black guy. There must be something wrong with me, lol.

 

Do I like to be judged? No, it's unfair but I deal with it.

 

Do I let their judgment affect my value and the way I feel about myself? No.

 

 

There is whole world full of people with hangups and sterotypes and opinions. Do I agree with them? No, I don't agree. I just accept that they exist and realize they have just a much of a right to their opinion as I do.

[JohnP82]

I decided to reply even though I think a lot of what I have to say could be pieced together from other responses.

 

Lets say I'm a 32 year old guy who is looking to settle down. I've spent my twenties in relationships that didn't work for one reason or another and built a solid career. Now I have to look for a woman to start a family with. Ideally I would like someone my age, but is that really possible?

 

If I strike gold and we are on the "typical" track to marriage; 1-2 years dating, 1 year engagement, married, then kids that's 3 years that have gone by before we even begin to try for children. So if she was the same age as me when we started dating she is now 35 and trying to have children. Now I don't know every single fact regarding pregnancy after 35 but I do know that it is harder and can be more dangerous. I know it's still possible, but knowing this wouldn't I be more inclined to look for a woman a little bit younger?

 

As for single moms I know that there are great ones out there and I feel bad for saying this, but I don't want to raise some other guys child. Maybe I feel this way because I'm 27 and perhaps if I meet a woman who was absolutely perfect for me and had a kid I would feel differently. However for now I would prefer a woman without kids and ideally never married.

[xxoo]

We aren't talking about people in their 80s and 90s..We are talking about 30 year olds.

 

That was in response to you saying that men only love their women as they age because they "washed their socks" or something. Not true. They genuinely think their OWN 40, 50, 60, 70, 80 year old wife is beautiful and sexy, regardless of how they feel about "women that age" in general.

 

Go ask on the marriage board. The men there are very reassuring about their appreciation for their wives aging bodies.

 

I have gone to major porn sites and I have seen "milf" porn and the women usually have had so much work done , or at the most are only in their early 30s or even late 20s, that it's a big joke to even call it "milf". I have never see "milf" porn that showed a real looking mom type with no work done.

 

I don't know what to tell you. My H is turned off by breast implants, and likes "natural" women, and we don't have this problem

[Negative Nancy]

Lets say I'm a 32 year old guy who is looking to settle down. I've spent my twenties in relationships that didn't work for one reason or another and built a solid career. Now I have to look for a woman to start a family with. Ideally I would like someone my age, but is that really possible?

 

If I strike gold and we are on the "typical" track to marriage; 1-2 years dating, 1 year engagement, married, then kids that's 3 years that have gone by before we even begin to try for children. So if she was the same age as me when we started dating she is now 35 and trying to have children. Now I don't know every single fact regarding pregnancy after 35 but I do know that it is harder and can be more dangerous. I know it's still possible, but knowing this wouldn't I be more inclined to look for a woman a little bit younger?

 

Going by this argument, any women aged 32 that happened to have bad luck in relationships so far (because no matter how many times it is repeated on here, not ALL guys in their 20s - when the woman typically is "supposed" to be ready and settle down going by the opinion of males here - are truly inclined to already settle down, not to mention starting a family) is not "fit enough" to start a family anymore, even with a 50 year old man, because according to your point, even with a 50 year old man there might be 3 years passing by before reproduction begins and by then she's already 35 as well...so what are you saying here? A woman past 35 should "roll over and die", as posed so eloquently by another poster?

 

Should we create a new law that no woman over 35 should become pregnant anymore? Then let's please apply the same standards to men. Because as shown by scientific research, becoming a father in your 30s is no less favorable in terms of biology than a woman at the same age. So you better hurry up, young man, your best reproductive years are numbered.

[verhrzn]

I decided to reply even though I think a lot of what I have to say could be pieced together from other responses.

 

Lets say I'm a 32 year old guy who is looking to settle down. I've spent my twenties in relationships that didn't work for one reason or another and built a solid career. Now I have to look for a woman to start a family with. Ideally I would like someone my age, but is that really possible?

 

If I strike gold and we are on the "typical" track to marriage; 1-2 years dating, 1 year engagement, married, then kids that's 3 years that have gone by before we even begin to try for children. So if she was the same age as me when we started dating she is now 35 and trying to have children. Now I don't know every single fact regarding pregnancy after 35 but I do know that it is harder and can be more dangerous. I know it's still possible, but knowing this wouldn't I be more inclined to look for a woman a little bit younger?

 

As for single moms I know that there are great ones out there and I feel bad for saying this, but I don't want to raise some other guys child. Maybe I feel this way because I'm 27 and perhaps if I meet a woman who was absolutely perfect for me and had a kid I would feel differently. However for now I would prefer a woman without kids and ideally never married.

 

35 is when fertility starts to decline, but it actually isn't "dangerous" or all that difficult until after 40, and even then is not terribly difficult. Evidence suggests that if a woman has her first child somewhere between early thirties and late thirties, future fertilization is actually might easier. It's having the first kid after 40 where she might run into difficulties.

 

Additionally, while dating a younger woman might make the process easier for HER, men also experience a drop in fertility and an increase in sexual dysfunction after age 35. More and more studies coming out tie developmental disorders like autism to aged sperm (fathers being 40+ years old.)

 

Your situation also takes place in an idealistic world. What if you date a younger woman, and then find she has fertility problems anyway? While age is A factor in how easily a woman can have kids, it's not the only one.

 

Lastly, why is adoption not an option? Are you so tied to the idea the kid HAS to be biologically yours that you'll shut off a whole avenue of potential partners? (Women your age/slightly older.) I can understand feeling a bit weary about single mothers... it's stepping into a family that's already been created, so to speak. But adoption is a whole other situation.

[JohnP82]

Going by this argument, any women aged 32 that happened to have bad luck in relationships so far (because no matter how many times it is repeated on here, not ALL guys in their 20s - when the woman typically is "supposed" to be ready and settle down going by the opinion of males here - are truly inclined to already settle down, not to mention starting a family) is not "fit enough" to start a family anymore, even with a 50 year old man, because according to your point, even with a 50 year old man there might be 3 years passing by before reproduction begins and by then she's already 35 as well...so what are you saying here? A woman past 35 should "roll over and die", as posed so eloquently by another poster?

 

Should we create a new law that no woman over 35 should become pregnant anymore? Then let's please apply the same standards to men. Because as shown by scientific research, becoming a father in your 30s is no less favorable in terms of biology than a woman at the same age. So you better hurry up, young man, your best reproductive years are numbered.

 

Whoa way to go overboard. I never said anything about passing laws or someone being unfit to be a parent. I said it gets harder and can be more dangerous. Also I never said that men are not affected by reduced fertility. I know they are, but that is typically after the age at which females begin to encounter fertility problems.

[JohnP82]

35 is when fertility starts to decline, but it actually isn't "dangerous" or all that difficult until after 40, and even then is not terribly difficult. Evidence suggests that if a woman has her first child somewhere between early thirties and late thirties, future fertilization is actually might easier. It's having the first kid after 40 where she might run into difficulties.

 

Additionally, while dating a younger woman might make the process easier for HER, men also experience a drop in fertility and an increase in sexual dysfunction after age 35. More and more studies coming out tie developmental disorders like autism to aged sperm (fathers being 40+ years old.)

 

Your situation also takes place in an idealistic world. What if you date a younger woman, and then find she has fertility problems anyway? While age is A factor in how easily a woman can have kids, it's not the only one.

 

Lastly, why is adoption not an option? Are you so tied to the idea the kid HAS to be biologically yours that you'll shut off a whole avenue of potential partners? (Women your age/slightly older.) I can understand feeling a bit weary about single mothers... it's stepping into a family that's already been created, so to speak. But adoption is a whole other situation.

 

I can't find anything that says fertility drops off for men as early at 35. All the stuff I quickly googled shows 40. Of course it's possible to run into problems with fertility with a younger woman, but lets not play what ifs. Adoption is certainly there, but yes I would prefer to have my own children.

[Negative Nancy]

I know they are, but that is typically after the age at which females begin to encounter fertility problems.

 

no, it's not, that's just something men like to tell themselves. reduced fertility in men leading to unhealthy babies starts as early as in their 30s.

[JohnP82]

no, it's not, that's just something men like to tell themselves. reduced fertility in men leading to unhealthy babies starts as early as in their 30s.

 

Yes abnormalities can present themselves and have been linked to the father's age. I see that in some other articles that some are linked to the father's age and can be seen as the father gets closer to 40. However what does that change in a search for a partner? Should the guy stick with a woman his own age? Wouldn't that result in an even greater risk of genetic abnormalities, difficulty conceiving, etc?

 

What's your solution since you seem up in arms about this?

Edited November 10, 2011 by JohnP82

[Anela]

no, it's not, that's just something men like to tell themselves. reduced fertility in men leading to unhealthy babies starts as early as in their 30s.

 

Also, a lot of men dating younger women, aren't thinking about her fertility at all - they aren't looking to make babies, they just want sex with the younger hotties.

[Anela]

I think girls absorb that looks and youth are important to men, but I don't think most women would consider 30-35 as being past their prime (as a lot of men do). At 35, I don't feel past my prime...but a lot of men would see me that way.

 

 

Same here. I was actually more confident in my own skin, and felt sexier in general as I got into my thirties. If certain things hadn't happened, and I hadn't had the same experience on okcupid, that was detailed in an article posted last night, then I wouldn't have seen myself as being past my prime either.

[Mutant Debutante]

I can't find anything that says fertility drops off for men as early at 35. All the stuff I quickly googled shows 40. Of course it's possible to run into problems with fertility with a younger woman, but lets not play what ifs. Adoption is certainly there, but yes I would prefer to have my own children.

 

Ok, the funny part about this is you're already playing what ifs. Your whole first post was what ifs, about a hypothetical 35 year old and HER hypothetical fertility issues.

 

You know that stats are still on the side of a 35 year old having a healthy baby, right? It's not like some freakishly dangerous Russian roulette.