Do men avoid settling as women get older?

[Anela]

 

 

this exact point also fits the guys well that complain that no woman is attracted to them. what they're really saying is that none of the hot young women they desire is interested in them, but conveniently overlook the fact that they might have a shot with plain jane. of course, PJ doesn't do it for them. Isn't this whole going around in circles hilarious?

 

Yep. I've pointed that out a few times. Women are expected to settle, but how dare we suggest that they check out the plain janes?

[Anela]

What is wrong with guys over 50? Are they not attractive enough for Veronica? See how this argument works. We can all throw this back at each other.

 

She wants men HER OWN age. that's the whole point of the article. She doesn't want younger men drooling over her or her bank account.

[Anela]

Women age like vintage fine milk and Men like vintage fine wine. Known fact, Google it!

 

A human female after 35 is way past her expiration date, specially if she is also FAT.

 

Once your girl hits 35 miles...you switch to a newer model. Easy, done and everyone is happy!

 

you need new material.

[Sanman]

She wants men HER OWN age. that's the whole point of the article. She doesn't want younger men drooling over her or her bank account.

 

And she wanted an older, wealthier guy when she was younger. When I wanted a girl my own age or even a few years older when I was younger, I dated a few, but many turned me down. As I got older, I got used to dating women younger than me. Women are to blame or this as well. You want to date the 23 or 25 year old with a job when you are 19-20. However, at 37, a guy approaching 50 is too old. People have dating preferences. It works both ways over time.

[Woggle]

I see plenty of older couples where the man still obviously adores his wife. Don't let these guys who are mostly trolls tell you otherwise.

[Sanman]

Sorry, Sanman, but that's a strawman. I haven't seen anyone on LS telling a man that he is a shallow misogynist simply because he dates women who are 3-7 years younger than him. The accusation of misogyny props up usually when there is a dose of meanness thrown in -- like dating "all the hotties he can handle" is some kind of revenge for not getting any back when he had more zits than brains, or when people talk about 40+ men dating 20-year-old women with the implication that women over 30 might as well roll over and die.

 

 

Scroll back to earlier in this thread. It is exactly hat I was accused of this when I pointed out that a successful man (such as the doctors the OP was interested in) aged 30-35 would more likely have a preference for women 25-29 rather than someone aged 35. Everyone seems to think that everyone wants a 21 year old. Not true. However, if I were a 30-35 year old successful guy, I would prefer someone aged 25-29. Sure every guy may be interested in a younger woman (a point that is actually not true), however not all men will be able to obtain a relationship with one. Given the options a decent looking doctor likely has, I don't foresee that being a problem. No one said a 35 year old woman has not shot with the most eligible 35 year old men, but you need to bring more to the table than some men. For example, I date closer to my age, but want more of an equal partner. That means I want an SO that also brings in a six figure salary and a solid career. I would forgo looks and youth for such things. However, all things being equal (35 year old nurse and a 26 year old nurse), why wouldn't said doctor pick youth and beauty if they were both interested.

[Sanman]

.

 

You tell me. I've seen you express a lot of bitterness over this board. *shrug*.

 

If everyone in society was like you, we'd still have slaves. Nothing in society would change and clearly many things in society are always evolving and changing.

 

Do you tell your girlfriend how you feel about her aging?

 

You mean does she know that I am attracted to her looks, but as she gets older I will lose some physical attraction for her and yet appreciate all of the wonderful things she has done for me, all the great the times we have shared, and all of the (hopefully) great years of companionship and support provided by a partner? Yeah, I think she knows.

[Metis]

However, all things being equal (35 year old nurse and a 26 year old nurse), why wouldn't said doctor pick youth and beauty if they were both interested.

Doctors and nurses very rarely date each other, whatever the age difference.

[soserious1]

I'm an older woman who has totally accepted that men my own age don't want me & I'm actually cool with that. Looking at a photo of myself placed next to a younger gal & honestly I think any man in his 50's who could score a 35 yr old would be nuts to chose me over her.

 

What bothers me is the amount of scorn I receive for electing to not engage in dating relationships & to only engage in casual sex hookup's. You'd be amazed at how downright ANGRY people get when they want to introduce to their senior citizen brother, father or cousin and I turn them down

 

I feels like not only am I obligated to accept that men my own age don't want me but that I'm also obligated to provide

sex & all manner of care taking to men 10-15 yrs my senior or I risk being accused of being "a cold fish" "evil" etc

[dasein]

Doctors and nurses very rarely date each other, whatever the age difference.

 

Of course they do, or rather it hinges on how "dating" is defined, and whether BJs in a closet count as "dating."

[Metis]

Of course they do, or rather it hinges on how "dating" is defined, and whether BJs in a closet count as "dating."

 

I work with hospitals quite a bit. You know, just like life isn't a Disney movie, it isn't a porno, either.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sanman

However, all things being equal (35 year old nurse and a 26 year old nurse), why wouldn't said doctor pick youth and beauty if they were both interested.

 

Sanman, I am okay with anybody's preferences - but the expression "all things being equal" is just misleading.

 

You know very well that there are many factors in play when it comes to people being attracted and/ or suited to one another. And honestly, I have seen many 35 year old women who look a lot better than many 26 year old women. From the perspective of my advanced age, they're all young 'uns!

 

Metis:

Doctors and nurses very rarely date each other, whatever the age difference.

 

Just for the record - maybe they don't now, but my dad was a doctor, my mom a nurse and they had quite a few peers with the same situation. Not that it matters.

[Sanman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sanman

 

 

Sanman, I am okay with anybody's preferences - but the expression "all things being equal" is just misleading.

 

You know very well that there are many factors in play when it comes to people being attracted and/ or suited to one another. And honestly, I have seen many 35 year old women who look a lot better than many 26 year old women. From the perspective of my advanced age, they're all young 'uns!

 

 

Oh absolutely, i was simply pointing out that it is not that I am saying they are choosing 26 year old heroin addicts of 35 year old professionals or obese 26 year olds over fit 35 year olds. As I mentioned earlier in that post, it is about what you bring to the table. However, the OP had been comparing herself to other nurses in the hospital. My point was that pushed to choose to pursue one or the other, the man would likely choose the younger prospect than one of the same age/older, if he were comparing two women of similar occupations, looks/fitness, and attraction.

Edited November 11, 2011 by Sanman

[Metis]

Metis:

 

 

Just for the record - maybe they don't now, but my dad was a doctor, my mom a nurse and they had quite a few peers with the same situation. Not that it matters.

 

Then things must have changed since then. Or perhaps my impression is skewed by what I see in hospitals as opposed to private practice. In hospitals, the rigid hierarchy seems not to be conducive to those types of relationships. And most people aren't very willing to date where they work, anyway.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

We know that's what *you* as a man would choose to do Sanman. But after becoming familiar with your standard comments around here, it's not really like you even have the best opinion of women yourself, or even a very balanced one. A healthy and happy view point of women seems to escape a marjority of LS men. A number of men here tend to over exploit their worth to the world while engaging in games that are intended to shame women. You tend to enjoy focusing on ways you can talk yourself up and talk men up, while simultaneously attempting to put women down. Which leads me to believe if you even really believe this stuff yourself. Good thing that real life is another matter. And that most men are not like the men that seem to be mostely drawn to LS.

 

 

Sanman

Women are to blame or this as well.

 

On this website, it tends to regularly lead back to how women are to blame. That men just can't help themselves either because of their biology, for which they are apparently not responsible for. Or they can't help themselves because it's women's doing, which again means they carry no responsibility.

The thought process points to an idealogy of bitterness toward women that is just staggering in it's lack of personal self evaulation or growth as a man tBut since you lean so heavily on the thought "that's life", I don't think you really take much pride in wanting to be a better man. The desire to blame women for everything in some perverse attempt to take no responsibility as a man continues to make a regular appereance around here. And it truely signifies a man's core values.

 

 

You want to date the 23 or 25 year old with a job when you are 19-20. However, at 37, a guy approaching 50 is too old. People have dating preferences. It works both ways over time.

 

A 19 year old dating a 23 year old isn't a big deal. They share similiar life experiences and a 2-3 year age difference is really nothing. There is a bigger difference beween 37 and 50 then 19 and 23.

 

 

However, all things being equal (35 year old nurse and a 26 year old nurse), why wouldn't said doctor pick youth and beauty if they were both interested.

 

All things being equal, who the doctor picks is dependent on what kind of relationship he is truly looking for. And what kind of man he really is. What he values most in a woman. There are men that will always pick the younger woman and there are women that will always pick the richer man. But for most people, this isn't the be all and end all to life. Some younger women might like to think they are the better option, just like some more successful men would like to think that they are the better option, but this stuff is really just window dressing that covers the person underneath.

 

Having dated men that made a lot of money, it's not all it's cracked up to be. Men with fancier jobs are just regular guys. They aren't better. They might be smart in their choosen field but that doesn't say anything about their potential to be truely good men or good mates. Some women learn this. And some don't. But I bet that either way, men are more happy to be valued for who they then what they offer a woman. I bet more men are happy when a woman wants to give something of herself to him, then qualify what he is always giving her. Since younger women do tend to be more naive, they usually are more easily impressed which would fluff up the ego of a man that needed his worth to be validated through his job. And over the years hearing men talk about various topics, men have so many of their own insecurties and fears that seem to become more apparent with age themselves.

 

You mean does she know that I am attracted to her looks, but as she gets older I will lose some physical attraction for her and yet appreciate all of the wonderful things she has done for me, all the great the times we have shared, and all of the (hopefully) great years of companionship and support provided by a partner? Yeah, I think she knows.

 

I didn't ask you if she knows, I asked you if you told her your real true feelings. Such as the ones you just articulated. In exactly those words. I doubt that you sincerely have. People have a base knowledge about what happens as we all age but have you ever been completely honest with her and verbally told her all the things you say abou women here?

 

In all honesty, while having wonderful things done for you is a big part of a relationships, staring your relationship off with making one partner's value less then yours and on a continued deminishing decline is a sure fire way to kill a lot of good things in a relationship too.

 

Both men and women age and their bodies change. However, that doesn't have to correlate to a deminished physical attraction to them. If it does, then you know what someone really valued about them.

 

As we age, we also tend to make less money or we reach a crest where the promotions no longer come. Would you want your wife to be less attracted to you when that eventually happens to you as it will happen to all of us? How many men would feel confident in the fact that their partner saw him less attractive as he ceased pulling in as much money as he use to?

 

If you loose physical attraction for your partner but expect the way she supported you to keep her warm at night, that has nothing to do with wanting to be a good man for her but all about what you can take and use from her at any given time whether it be her looks when she is young and what she does to make your life easier when you are older. In all this from you Sanman, all I ever hear is you talk in terms in what a woman *gives* you. What she needs to be to *prove* herself to you. And all you ever say in turn is that you're a doctor. Being a good man and a parnter is so much more the defining yourself through your job.

[ThsAmericanLife]

I'm an older woman who has totally accepted that men my own age don't want me & I'm actually cool with that. Looking at a photo of myself placed next to a younger gal & honestly I think any man in his 50's who could score a 35 yr old would be nuts to chose me over her.

 

What bothers me is the amount of scorn I receive for electing to not engage in dating relationships & to only engage in casual sex hookup's. You'd be amazed at how downright ANGRY people get when they want to introduce to their senior citizen brother, father or cousin and I turn them down

 

I feels like not only am I obligated to accept that men my own age don't want me but that I'm also obligated to provide

sex & all manner of care taking to men 10-15 yrs my senior or I risk being accused of being "a cold fish" "evil" etc

 

I completely agree... Somehow, not only are we supposed to gracefully accept double standards about looks and age... we are supposed to happily offer up that youth for an older man to exploit...

[ThsAmericanLife]

good thing that real life is another matter. And that most men are not like the men that seem to be mostely drawn to ls.

 

On this website, it tends to regularly lead back to how women are to blame. That men just can't help themselves either because of their biology, for which they are apparently not responsible for. Or they can't help themselves because it's women's doing, which again means they carry no responsibility.

 

The thought process points to an idealogy of bitterness toward women that is just staggering in it's lack of personal self evaulation or growth as a man tbut since you lean so heavily on the thought "that's life", i don't think you really take much pride in wanting to be a better man. The desire to blame women for everything in some perverse attempt to take no responsibility as a man continues to make a regular appereance around here. And it truely signifies a man's core values.

 

A 19 year old dating a 23 year old isn't a big deal. They share similiar life experiences and a 2-3 year age difference is really nothing. There is a bigger difference beween 37 and 50 then 19 and 23.

 

All things being equal, who the doctor picks is dependent on what kind of relationship he is truly looking for. And what kind of man he really is. What he values most in a woman. There are men that will always pick the younger woman and there are women that will always pick the richer man. But for most people, this isn't the be all and end all to life. Some younger women might like to think they are the better option, just like some more successful men would like to think that they are the better option, but this stuff is really just window dressing that covers the person underneath.

 

Having dated men that made a lot of money, it's not all it's cracked up to be. Men with fancier jobs are just regular guys. They aren't better. They might be smart in their choosen field but that doesn't say anything about their potential to be truely good men or good mates. Some women learn this. And some don't. But i bet that either way, men are more happy to be valued for who they then what they offer a woman. I bet more men are happy when a woman wants to give something of herself to him, then qualify what he is always giving her. Since younger women do tend to be more naive, they usually are more easily impressed which would fluff up the ego of a man that needed his worth to be validated through his job. And over the years hearing men talk about various topics, men have so many of their own insecurties and fears that seem to become more apparent with age themselves.

 

I didn't ask you if she knows, i asked you if you told her your real true feelings. Such as the ones you just articulated. In exactly those words. I doubt that you sincerely have. People have a base knowledge about what happens as we all age but have you ever been completely honest with her and verbally told her all the things you say abou women here?

 

In all honesty, while having wonderful things done for you is a big part of a relationships, staring your relationship off with making one partner's value less then yours and on a continued deminishing decline is a sure fire way to kill a lot of good things in a relationship too.

 

Both men and women age and their bodies change. However, that doesn't have to correlate to a deminished physical attraction to them. If it does, then you know what someone really valued about them.

 

As we age, we also tend to make less money or we reach a crest where the promotions no longer come. Would you want your wife to be less attracted to you when that eventually happens to you as it will happen to all of us? How many men would feel confident in the fact that their partner saw him less attractive as he ceased pulling in as much money as he use to?

 

If you loose physical attraction for your partner but expect the way she supported you to keep her warm at night, that has nothing to do with wanting to be a good man for her but all about what you can take and use from her at any given time whether it be her looks when she is young and what she does to make your life easier when you are older. In all this from you sanman, all i ever hear is you talk in terms in what a woman *gives* you. What she needs to be to *prove* herself to you. And all you ever say in turn is that you're a doctor. Being a good man and a parnter is so much more the defining yourself through your job.

 

amen.......

[Emilia]

 

What bothers me is the amount of scorn I receive for electing to not engage in dating relationships & to only engage in casual sex hookup's. You'd be amazed at how downright ANGRY people get when they want to introduce to their senior citizen brother, father or cousin and I turn them down

 

I feels like not only am I obligated to accept that men my own age don't want me but that I'm also obligated to provide

sex & all manner of care taking to men 10-15 yrs my senior or I risk being accused of being "a cold fish" "evil" etc

 

Oh yes 100%. Women are expected to self-select when it comes to their aspirations in dating based on 'what they bring to the table' but men can go for anything they want

[Negative Nancy]

Oh yes 100%. Women are expected to self-select when it comes to their aspirations in dating based on 'what they bring to the table' but men can go for anything they want

 

yeah, exactly like it was expressed in the comments of the article:

 

When I was on match, I would check the age range they were looking for, then check whether they want kids. Even the ones who said no kids were looking for younger women. In my personal anecdotal experience, it didn't matter. They all want substantially younger women. It was so irritating. Older men always emailed me asking me to ignore my upper range limit for them, but their age search criteria ended WELL before their OWN age. I was supposed to do what they would never do.

Fertility may be a part of the equation, but not a big one. I was on Match.com in my early 30s and was positively hounded by men in their 50s and 60s who had no interest in having kids but had "life experience" that they were just dying to share with an adventurous young woman who wasn't all hung up on age. You know, like they were. They just wanted a younger woman to make them feel like studs, full stop. Reviewing profiles of guys in my own preferred age range of 30-40 showed that they were looking for someone 25, MAX. Few of them gave me the time of day. The entire online dating experience, which lasted a bit less than two years, left me a strong belief that human males, at least in America, are some of the most pathetically self-loathing creatures on this planet. As annoyed as I was, I kinda felt bad for them in the end.

 

 

 

the irony of that kinda cracks me up

[zengirl]

Quote:

Just for the record - maybe they don't now, but my dad was a doctor, my mom a nurse and they had quite a few peers with the same situation. Not that it matters.

 

It's actually one of the most interesting trends. Male doctors are MUCH more likely to date female doctors/lawyers/other professionals with doctorates or advanced/postgraduate education than they are nurses these days, as people (in the X generation and younger) are actually REALLY likely to date people at the same education (not salary!) level. There's a huge wealth of data on that. Kind of interesting. In fact, data suggests especially men seem to seek women of a similar educational (again, not salary! There's strong evidence that suggests it's not a salary correlation) level.

 

That doesn't apply to any of the older generations, though, where you don't see such correlation, and it's unclear if GenX (or younger) will carry it into middle age. (These are preferences for marriage, too, and not for dating.)

[Sanman]

Disenchatedly,

 

 

You constantly talk about how I am seen as bitter. Yet it is always you, usually only you, that makes this assertion and engages is such arguments with me. I know you want to believe that everyone should love each other for the person on the inside and external factors such as money, age, and looks should not matter. Yet, this is not how most people go about things. Tell me, you admit to dating guys with money. Have you dated men older than yourself? Have you let them buy you dinner? Then, you have fed into these stereotypes as well. How has having this pie in the sky ideal worked out in you dating life?

 

As for my relationship, I don't speak about what I do for my gf. I choose to keep her around for way she does for me and who she is. She chooses to keep me around for the same reasons. She is happy with who I am and what I offer her. However, let us most act like women are perfec either. She openly admits that my tight ass and solid career drew her to me as much as my nice personality. The OP also was interested in a younger doctor. Do you think she gave the bald, overweight, manual laborer with a heart of gold a chance? If you believe that is all that should matter, then you should date such a man. There are a number of male virgins on this board that seem nice as well. Have you nit attempted to date them?

[EasyHeart]

It's actually one of the most interesting trends. Male doctors are MUCH more likely to date female doctors/lawyers/other professionals with doctorates or advanced/postgraduate education than they are nurses these days, as people (in the X generation and younger) are actually REALLY likely to date people at the same education (not salary!) level. There's a huge wealth of data on that. Kind of interesting. In fact, data suggests especially men seem to seek women of a similar educational (again, not salary! There's strong evidence that suggests it's not a salary correlation) level.

 

That doesn't apply to any of the older generations, though, where you don't see such correlation, and it's unclear if GenX (or younger) will carry it into middle age. (These are preferences for marriage, too, and not for dating.)

I think that's always been the case, though. People are attracted to people like themselves. The difference 50 and 100 years ago was simply that there weren't a lot of women with college or advanced degrees. So if, for instance, a college was 90% male and 10% female, the most desirable 10% of men got the college girls and the other 80% looked elsewhere. And of course, since opportunities for women were limited, really smart women worked as nurses, secretaries and teachers because those are the occupations that career women went into. The women who used to become nurses now become doctors, the women who used to become secretaries become MBAs, etc.

[zengirl]

I think that's always been the case, though. People are attracted to people like themselves. The difference 50 and 100 years ago was simply that there weren't a lot of women with college or advanced degrees.

 

Actually, it's truly a turning trend. The first 'batch' of women to rise to that level of education in droves (not the rare exceptions of my grandmother's day, where it's a bit harder to tell to be honest) seem to have struggled a lot more, marriage-wise, than less educated women, particularly women who went past a college degree to higher level coursework. Men in that generation don't seem to have desired it at all in a partner, based on statistics. Though you're right that numbers likely played in some. Now, for the first time, I believe I recently read women are MORE likely than men to go for work beyond the Bachelors!

 

So if, for instance, a college was 90% male and 10% female, the most desirable 10% of men got the college girls and the other 80% looked elsewhere. And of course, since opportunities for women were limited, really smart women worked as nurses, secretaries and teachers because those are the occupations that career women went into. The women who used to become nurses now become doctors, the women who used to become secretaries become MBAs, etc.

 

It's interesting you have teachers in that list. Technically, teachers have had to go to college for ages. Most of the first women who went to college became teachers of some sort. (Also, the trend for teachers today is to do postgraduate work. So many will wind up with MEds or PhDs. Mostly because it's some of the easiest coursework at that level AND they're required to take courses to maintain certification anyway AND it's usually paid for by school districts, at least in part.) FWIW, female teachers, even when men did not favor education in their wives, have always done well in marriage statistics. (ETA: Ironic when you consider the 'school marm' image many have, but the cliche of the teacher spinster seems statistically unlikely.) A lot did quit when they got married, but some of the first 'acceptable' working Moms were teachers. Nurses also. Whereas a secretary was probably more pressured to quit with it when she found a man, nurses and teachers seem to be acceptable careers to continue, if you wished, much earlier in time. Probably because they're considered 'nurturing.'

 

At any rate, statistics don't show that men really valued education previously, though many of the very RICH men and women who went to college married each other; that's a class thing. But a lot of men went to college on the GI bill and had no preference for college-educated women (rich girls, sometimes, yes). When college opened up to a multitude of classes for women and men, there was no real preference that was clear, though women who continued on to postgraduate work in the 70s and 80s and even 90s did not fare as well, statistically as they do today, in terms of marriage. It's quite interesting.

 

You're right that there were some class correlations in the early days of separated colleges and such, though. Even then, women who went on to postgraduate work were not favoured.

Edited November 11, 2011 by zengirl

[EasyHeart]

You type way more than I'm willing to read, but it seems you're drawing some broad conclusions from a very short period of time (the 50s and 60s) and dismissing the longer periods of time as a class issue. Isn't people marrying people with similar educational backgrounds likely a class issue today? And first-wave feminists were Boomers, so they were dealing with a rapidly increasing birthrate, which results in a severe shortage of men. Maybe the women who didn't find a man to marry were more likely to pursue an education, rather than educated women not being desirable?

 

I don't know, just raising thoughts. I suspect men have always been attracted to women with similar intelligence.

[zengirl]

You type way more than I'm willing to read, but it seems you're drawing some broad conclusions from a very short period of time (the 50s and 60s) and dismissing the longer periods of time as a class issue. Isn't people marrying people with similar educational backgrounds likely a class issue today? And first-wave feminists were Boomers, so they were dealing with a rapidly increasing birthrate, which results in a severe shortage of men. Maybe the women who didn't find a man to marry were more likely to pursue an education, rather than educated women not being desirable?

 

I don't know, just raising thoughts. I suspect men have always been attracted to women with similar intelligence.

 

Could be true that the causation is backwards, certainly. I do think it is a bit of a class issue today, but as I said, it doesn't correlate with money necessarily (of career OR of the money you were born with). I think it was a narrower class issue back when college was really only open to a few. Now, it really is open to almost anyone, though class does play into both IQ to get in and ability to afford it, still. Hard to say.

 

I'm certainly open to other ideas, but the data suggests it's a differing trend. You're right that we're looking at a very narrow window, however.