Do men avoid settling as women get older?

[soserious1]

Woggle, as you are aware, FB's & FWB are the only types of relationships I engage in & I have to agree with ThsAmericanLife I tell men pleasantly but directly that I'm not at all interested in anything more, I spell out my limits right from the beginining, if a man violates those boundaries I end the relationship immediately and do so bluntly & firmly so there can be no misunderstanding, no man left thinking that perhaps my "no means maybe"

 

I personally feel that while we are each guardians of our own hearts that it is the primary responsibility of the partner who wants less to be very clear, upfront about it & to end things immediately once it becomes clear that the other person has developed string feelings and is hoping for more. That gal treated that poor guy badly.

Edited October 22, 2011 by soserious1

[Woggle]

It's funny that the one time I take the woman's side women disagree with me. She was honest.

[soserious1]

It's funny that the one time I take the woman's side women disagree with me. She was honest.

 

When a person goes into a FWB situation they do with the knowledge that people's minds & hearts aren't set in stone, there is always the risk that your partner will develop feelings & want something more from you. Continuing to play with somebody after they let it be known that they want more but you aren't interested is cruel & IMHO is a huge reason why FWB arrangements can become disasters.

 

Part of being "honest" in a FWB arrangement is following through with enforcing the boundaries you both agreed to

at the start of the relationship.

[Woggle]

I always say that FWB relationships work better in theory than reality and this is why. One person usually gets attached and it becomes a mess.

 

Did everybody just forget that he threatened her family?

[soserious1]

I always say that FWB relationships work better in theory than reality and this is why. One person usually gets attached and it becomes a mess.

 

Did everybody just forget that he threatened her family?

 

Shame on her then for not handling her intimate business in a straightforward manner, if she'd have ended this relationship when it was first clear he was hoping for more, she wouldn't be in this situation now would she?

 

You play with people's hearts, you use them at your own risk

[Woggle]

Shame on her then for not handling her intimate business in a straightforward manner, if she'd have ended this relationship when it was first clear he was hoping for more, she wouldn't be in this situation now would she?

 

You play with people's hearts, you use them at your own risk

 

So you are blaming her for him threatening her family? I suppose I was to blame for my ex shooting at me or my former FWB trying to break in my house when I wasn't home as well. If the situation was not to his liking he could have left at any time.

[xxoo]

It's funny that the one time I take the woman's side women disagree with me. She was honest.

 

Again, demonstrating that "women" is not a homogenous group. Whatever your position on an issue, some women will agree and others will disagree.

 

I agree with you on this issue

[soserious1]

So you are blaming her for him threatening her family? I suppose I was to blame for my ex shooting at me or my former FWB trying to break in my house when I wasn't home as well. If the situation was not to his liking he could have left at any time.

 

What I am saying is this... if you know in your heart of hearts that you don't want a committed relationship, that you're only in it for sex and a few laughs the onus is on you to make that fact crystal clear to your FWB AND to immediately drop that person so fast their head spins the millisecond they make it clear that they're in love and want more. This gal didn't do that, she kept seeing the guy, sending the message that perhaps her "no" really meant "maybe" feeding him false hope & signaling a tactic acceptance of his deeper feelings for her.

 

If you were clear with your FWB, if you ended it cleanly & firmly then obviously your FWB was mentally unbalanced and of course you weren't responsible for her actions but that isn't the case with this gal.

[soserious1]

I always say that FWB relationships work better in theory than reality and this is why. One person usually gets attached and it becomes a mess.

 

Did everybody just forget that he threatened her family?

 

Btw, it doesn't become "a mess" if the person who cares the least takes responsibilty & ends things the first time their FWB crosses the line.

 

I've had a ton of FB & FWB's since my divorce, strangely none of those men are threatening or stalking me, my family, my FWB's don't lounge around my home, show up at my workplace, rifle through my cell phone or email or try to insert themselves into the rest of my life.. why is this? The answer is simple, the minute a man indicates he's frustrated with having such a limited role in my life or doing things like asking intrusive questions on subjects that we agreed were off limits, I end the relationship, swiftly, cleanly, bluntly & forever.

[Shaun-Dro]

and I would argue that a guy's money isn't 'enough' anymore either.

 

Women expect the same things... Honesty, decency, and respect.

 

As far as priority over my friends... first, you have to prove you are my friend. Then you get priority. I'm not dropping everything in my life for guy du jour.

 

It's a progression... like everything else.

 

And I would argue that most people in their 20's are self-absorbed as hell... both men and women. For guys to come here and claim it is only women who haven't learned manners is total BS.

 

I"m thinking back to all the threads here about guys bragging about being players... and all the women they get, blah blah. Then guys who want relationships blame... whom? Women?? give me a break.

 

I don't see these same relationship oriented guys giving it back to the jerks who are actually making it more difficult for women to trust them...

 

no, they just come here and say...

 

dammit (b*tch) I'm ready for a family now so you better get on it cause your toast is getting old.

 

Seems like the focus is on the wrong place...

 

Why go after the jerk if a woman is simple-minded enough to fall for his game, especially when most guys warn her beforehand?

 

Bottom line: women love drama which is why they chase after guys who bring them a full plate of it. Otherwise, she'll die of self-boredom.

 

Women don't appreciate a good, honest man until she's over the hill and can no longer attract the players and bad boys to have fun with.

 

Women don't appreciate a good, strong man until she's banged up with a herd of brats and the biological fathers are nowhere to be found.

 

Women want to be entertained and put that pressure on a man to do, or they cut out, instead of equally sharing the entertainment of each other.

 

I could go on and on but I'm sure you understand my point as I've hit it on the head pretty hard.

 

All men in here who so-calledly flame women are only giving it as it is, not through any nonsensical emotional claptrap that most of you ladies often engage in.

 

Men always told it like it is and will continue to do so until the end of time. I do it on a regular basis, whether you women agree or not. I speak from experience only, not through my ass and nose.

 

And the reason the OP is struggling with men now is because she played the silly games that most young, attractive women play when they can.

 

She had her chance to tie the knot with a serious man who likely would've taken care of her. Instead, she picked the multiple choice of playing mind games and just dating around.

 

Now, the OP runs on Loveshack and cries that men her age or whatever won't take her seriously. Well, boo-hoo!

 

And to make matters worse, she's leading on a young resident by feigning to be younger than she really is.

 

Well I got news for you, OP: he'll find out. And when he does, I guarantee you it'll be a problem and you'll be left in the dust, the same way you did to those men all those years ago when you were 25.

[ThsAmericanLife]

Women initiate 75% of divorces and most of them are because they got bored or wanted to find themselves. If they want that then fine but don't expect the man to still play the husband role after she decides to toss him in the trash.

 

For a woman that is left by a man who traded her in for a younger model or is being abused they have all sympathy but if she is just bored or lost that spark she should be on her own.

 

Yes, women initiate 75% of divorces... but it is because of feelings of neglect.

 

This was documented by a man... who now successfully counsels other men how to love their wives.

[ascendotum]

I think that in general people that peek early tend to crash really hard afterwards for men and women. When I went to my high school reunion the nerds and geeks of both genders were for the most good looking and successful while the jocks and beauty queens just looked used up.

 

I noticed this too at mine Woggle. I remember my dad and one of my uncles saying that about theirs years ago (minus the word geek). At mine the girls who hit puberty early and had killer bodies back in HS when 15, had definitely aged more, and I was a bit stunned with a couple that practically looked like frumpy middle aged moms. It was also the same with the former jock/tough guys. The woman I thought was the prettiest there I couldn't even remember her and had to ask others who was she and think hard to remember her..she used to be a quiet mousey thin non descript girl.

 

I remember reading an article that discussed the effects of hormones and aging that helped to explain this (but cant remember enough to explain it properly beyond that I thought they increased cellular turnover). I see the same with some mediterranean girls I know or knew who could have been page 3 pinup girls back at 14, but then I saw their mamma and thought wow the daughters going to look like her in 25yrs time. Mediterranean/latino women produce more estrogen, progesterone & testosterone than anglos/asians and I guess its a double edged sword.

Edited October 23, 2011 by ascendotum

[musemaj11]

If it's any consolation, those younger beautiful women will be stuck with a grandpa substitute as they grow old. lol And who's to say that grandpa won't substitute his wife with an even younger wife one day? (Of course, if he's REALLY mature as those women thought he was, he won't do that).

Well, as I have been saying, young women overlook younger boys for more mature and more successful men while in turn older, mature and successful men will overlook these women once they get older in search of younger and more beautiful women.

 

This is how it is out there. This is reality. Men are at a disadvantage during their early years, while women are at a disadvantage during their late years.

 

Im not attacking any gender. Im simply stating facts.

 

The way things they are (thankfully not universally though) is that men today still have the upper hand as they grow older. And that's where the great unfairness begins. Because even if those men didn't date successfully in their 20s they can still date successfully beyond them. In other words, it WAS a problem for them for some time, but a temporary one. On the contrary women only won momentarily in their 20s. Then they end up as the ones with the huge problem if they find themselves single again (or in grandpa situations) lol.

One important thing to note is that men will have the upper hand as they grow older ONLY IF their financial condition grows along with their age.

 

A broke 30 year old man is no more attractive than a broke 20 year old man.

 

On the other hand, women have the upper hand during their youth ONLY IF they are physically attractive and not ugly or fat.

 

So as I said before, men and women have their own benefits and challenges.

 

Why in the world would you expect them to?

 

At 19, you were just a teenager to women of 21-25. A 19 year old boy is of no interest to a "hot 21-25" year old woman.

 

You couldn't even legally drink in the US at 19, so where would you even meet these women? What did you think you had in common with a 25 year old woman?

As I said, young men accept the fact that young women prefer older guys due to the obvious benefits. So why can't old women accept the fact that older men prefer young women due the obvious benefits also?

 

I feel like a lot of men are treating this thread as a way to say "women, don't you dare reject me, in just a few years you'll be old and alone." It's like may angry men think this thread is some sort of pay back for years of rejection. Looking at this situation in real, everyday life it's clear that this attempt to fear monger is a failure. I understand that rejection, especially constant rejection is hard, but the bitterness here is palpable.

I see more angry old women on this thread than the other way around.

 

Cause I've worked in some of the most competitive companies in the world... and own my own business now. I could give you a LONG list of women who are quite high up in those companies who are very happily married. Not many women, for sure, but nearly all of them ARE married... and to men who (from the outside at least) have less 'prestigious' jobs than them.

I know a few women who are married to men with less financial status as well. And I can say that all of them ascribe to either one of these conditions:

 

1) The woman was unattractive and happy enough to have a man willing to be her husband even if he was not her ideal man. If she could get a man with higher status, I bet my life she would choose him.

 

2) The woman was a desperate spinster who realized that either she took what she got, or she would never marry.

 

And on the flip side you have women frequently left high and dry, left with sole responsibility for the care of dependent kids after a marriage goes sour. Children are the largest group of people living in poverty in this country,though the court might order child support a not insignificant number of custodial parents have great trouble collecting even partial payments & often a non-residential parent takes on zero direct parenting responsibilities after a divorce.

If you are incapable of caring for your children, dont ask for custody. Hand them over to the other parent who is more capable of that. Its unfair when a woman wants a monopoly of the kids' time and also expects the father to keep on giving her money despite getting very little time with his children.

[musemaj11]

"In the girl nature has had in view what could in theatrical terms be called a stage-effect: it has provided her with superabundant beauty and charm for a few years at the expense of the whole remainder of her life, so that during these years she may so capture the imagination of a man that he is carried away into undertaking to support her honorably in some form or another for the rest of her life, a step he would seem hardly likely to take for purely rational considerations. Thus nature has equipped women, as it has all its creatures, with the tools and weapons she needs for securing her existence, and at just the time she needs them; in doing which nature has acted with its usual economy. For just as the female ant loses its wings after mating, since they are then superfluous, indeed harmful to the business of raising the family, so the woman usually loses her beauty after one or two childbeds, and probably for the same reason."

 

- Arthur Schopenhauer

Edited October 23, 2011 by musemaj11

[soserious1]

 

If you are incapable of caring for your children, dont ask for custody. Hand them over to the other parent who is more capable of that. Its unfair when a woman wants a monopoly of the kids' time and also expects the father to keep on giving her money despite getting very little time with his children.[/quote

 

That goes both ways, if a man wants kids perhaps he should also be willing to take the career hit that will be required to raise them. Expecting a wife to stay at home wiping noses and butts for several years while you're out there enhancing your career & then expecting that she'll walk away with nothing come divorce time isn't fair either. Why should only mothers take the economic hit caused by working family friendly "mommy track" type jobs?

[musemaj11]

That goes both ways, if a man wants kids perhaps he should also be willing to take the career hit that will be required to raise them. Expecting a wife to stay at home wiping noses and butts for several years while you're out there enhancing your career & then expecting that she'll walk away with nothing come divorce time isn't fair either. Why should only mothers take the economic hit caused by working family friendly "mommy track" type jobs?

1) Most women expect to be the ones taking care of their newborn babies while expecting their husbands to remain being the breadwinners.

 

2) Women do not have to forsake their careers to take care of their babies if they do not want to. These days women can expect their husbands to pull equal weight in raising children.

 

3) More than half of divorces in the US were initiated by the women.

[ascendotum]

I feel like a lot of men are treating this thread as a way to say "women, don't you dare reject me, in just a few years you'll be old and alone." It's like may angry men think this thread is some sort of pay back for years of rejection. Looking at this situation in real, everyday life it's clear that this attempt to fear monger is a failure. I understand that rejection, especially constant rejection is hard, but the bitterness here is palpable.

 

There likely is an element of this going on. I have friends who have slept with 180, 120 women, and also friends who have slept with 1 or 2. I've had discussions with women mid 30s up in terms of how there's big variation with men as regards dating/sex/freaky fun compared to women, and I find they tend to have rose coloured glasses and think its as easy for all guys as it was for them. It does have flow on effects imo. The guys that I know that are inclined to be more judgemental as regards age come from both ends of the spectrum, the guys that missed out want more of the sexy yrs and the guys that screwed stacks of women have a sense of entitlement for the prime yrs. Someone posted in another thread the sweet spot for women when it comes to well-balanced guys is in the middle 50%, and there is truth in that.

 

One of the companies I was at a at couple yrs back there was interesting illustration of the nature of this thread. There were 4 women complaining about men. 2 were complaining how they were sick of getting hit on and 2 were complaining about not getting hit on anymore. The first 2 were slim build women early 30s and were complaining about all the creep & losers who hit on them all the time. The 1st chick loved big build guys and the 2nd liked bad boy types given her past exs. The other 2 women were in their 40s the petite build woman who had dated 6 footers all her life grumbled that even the geeky guys dont try to flirt with her anymore while the other woman you could tell was quite depressed about it (she was frumpy looking though). Opposite from her daughter on the other hand who was just dating around and was having a lot of fun (said with a cheeky smile & wiggle of her hips and 'you go girl' support from the other women...and for the girls I know who are upfront on having fun with guys its pretty much show me the muscle show me the tall guys, show me the bad boys. This scenario certainly does not cover the LTR prospects or dating styles of all single women in their 30s + 40s by any means, but just an example of different dynamics that affect the difficulties of finding what we want for both sexes.

 

I really feel sorry for women who give the best yrs of their lives to a guy and raise his children, to see him cheat and then watch him trade up to a much younger childless woman. At the same time some guys also find it annoying to see women hit their mid-30s and when they start having trouble hooking the guys they want for anything more than a fling/ons, then switch to a nice stable guy type when its time to settle down + have a baby and drop out of work. (a loser guy from 10 yrs back) I am not saying this is necessarily the case with the OP but it could be given she currently has her sight on cute young doctor.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

So, how often will we continue to blame women for our shortcomings?

 

I mean c'mon.."I'm going to pay all those women back who rejected me." What? Why do they matter that much to you?

 

It should make you want to become the most badass man possible. And of course understand that not every woman will like you. Here's a fun fact: Did you know I've actually been called ugly before by a couple women? Actually a few times?

 

Did it bother me? Outside of the initial gasp..not really. What's the point? After all, every woman won't like me, and I'm ok with that, because I don't like every woman. I think it's time we started being honest here.

 

Why the anger?

 

Women don't just drop off as they get older. Has no one seen an older woman that actually takes care of herself? God Bless America.

 

Thanks for writing this Mr. Nate. I'm glad that I'm not the only one that senses that women are taking the blame for a lot of stuff around here.

 

One of the men I was in a relationship with was not what society would have called stereotypically attractive. But my relationship with him was pretty amazing and we had great sex. I was wildly attracted to him.

 

I've had men that have said I'm beautiful but I also had men that never wanted to go out with me again or passed me up for a prettier girl. It takes all kinds to make the world go round. I don't need to be Jessica Simpson to be with a man that is wildly attracted to me. I know this because I experienced it with my own relationships with me. I also am not attracted to every good looking man that comes my way either. Attraction runs a bit deeper.

[123321]

I feel like a lot of men are treating this thread as a way to say "women, don't you dare reject me, in just a few years you'll be old and alone." It's like may angry men think this thread is some sort of pay back for years of rejection.

 

Nah, the question was asked and real answers given, end of story. I won't date a woman over 30 seriously simply because she brings nothing to my life that is worth that level of commitment. A lot of guys feel the same way. In fact, please explain why a successful guy age 35-45 would consider marrying a woman his own age.

 

What's in it for him?

 

 

 

... guys also find it annoying to see women hit their mid-30s and when they start having trouble hooking the guys they want for anything more than a fling/ons, then switch to a nice stable guy type when its time to settle down + have a baby and drop out of work.

 

And then be quietly discontent until she finally decides she should leave him to find herself and take half his livelihood and the kids with her. Far better to date a woman who isn't feeling time pressure to settle from the gong-like ticking of a biological clock. At least she's got options and is choosing YOU rather than desperately taking what she can get to "settle down + have a baby and drop out of work."

[soserious1]

I have no problem accepting that men don't want me due to my age,what puzzles me is how how angry people get when I decline their offers to introduce me to men in theit mid to late 60's they say things like "oh he needs somebody to look after him" or "you can't be too picky or you will die alone" they get downright pissed off when I day that I'm not interested in caretaking for anyone and that in the end we all will die alone anyway.

[ThsAmericanLife]

I know a few women who are married to men with less financial status as well. And I can say that all of them ascribe to either one of these conditions:

 

1) The woman was unattractive and happy enough to have a man willing to be her husband even if he was not her ideal man. If she could get a man with higher status, I bet my life she would choose him.

 

2) The woman was a desperate spinster who realized that either she took what she got, or she would never marry.

 

Neither of these describe the women I know.

 

They routinely attract the attention of men both younger and older. I'm sure the same would be said for their husbands.

 

These women love their husbands and their husbands love them. Sorry if you find that so impossible to wrap your brain around.

 

Not everyone gets married or stays married based on superficial values.

 

But, you are welcome to keep plowing these old excuses.

[ThsAmericanLife]

Nah, the question was asked and real answers given, end of story. I won't date a woman over 30 seriously simply because she brings nothing to my life that is worth that level of commitment. A lot of guys feel the same way. In fact, please explain why a successful guy age 35-45 would consider marrying a woman his own age.

 

What's in it for him?"

 

Well, if all he cares about is 'looks', then nothing, I guess. On the other hand, there is no guarantee the 20 something won't blimp out and let herself go after a certain age. At least women his own age have established a track record of some kind. Men who prefer women their own age (and maybe a little older) say this is one of the biggest things they find attractive. Similar life experiences, similar tastes... all that.

 

There are no 'real' answers given here.

 

Just a bunch of angry men pissed off and making excuses for their lot in life.

Edited October 23, 2011 by ThsAmericanLife

[fortyninethousand322]

Well, if all he cares about is 'looks', then nothing, I guess. On the other hand, there is no guarantee the 20 something won't blimp out and let herself go after a certain age. At least women his own age have established a track record of some kind. Men who prefer women their own age (and maybe a little older) say this is one of the biggest things they find attractive. Similar life experiences, similar tastes... all that.

 

There are no 'real' answers given here.

 

Just a bunch of angry men pissed off and making excuses for their lot in life.

 

I don't know. I mean if I get to be 30 and am still a virgin, no dating experience etc. I can imagine that I would have a horrible time relating to women my own age (and vice versa). I'm not personally opposed to dating a woman my own age or older but I do think the ability to relate to each other makes for a better relationship. A woman who's dated a bit (or more) and has some relationship and/or sexual experience would likely prefer a man with the same characteristics. Understandably so, but I can understand why men in my situation might prefer a younger woman.

[Sanman]

Nah, the question was asked and real answers given, end of story. I won't date a woman over 30 seriously simply because she brings nothing to my life that is worth that level of commitment. A lot of guys feel the same way. In fact, please explain why a successful guy age 35-45 would consider marrying a woman his own age.

 

What's in it for him?

 

 

There may be a good reasons to date a woman your own age if she is an equal. However, if you are a reasonably good looking doctor in your mid thirties, you have options. You may want to date a the 35 year old female version of yourself, you may prefer someone younger who works less, you may prefer something in between. The point is that you are likely in demand, so you have options. No one said that the OP will be stoned and run out of town now that she is 35. We simply said that those most in demand may no longer want to date her as much as they used to when she was younger. How is that hating on women? Most of the residents I meet are late 20's-early thirties and that is the age they like to date or younger. Will the 28 year old doctor reject her if he finds out that she is 35? Maybe. Would she have a better shot at dating him if she were 27? Probably. Why is that so hard to understand? Besides, the OP isn't going for a nice 38 year old doctor. She is going for a 28 year old and lying about her age in the hopes that he will date her. Then she comes on here and complains that guys like that will not. If a guy did that women would yell at him to grow up and date women his own age.

 

How about this....If a 35 year old male musician who did not have a steady job and still lived with his parents came on here and complained that he was not getting as much attention from women as he used to and he wanted to settle down, what would everyone say to him? I would tell him it was time for him to move out into his own place and get a more stable job as many women want that. Would that be man hating on my part?

[ThsAmericanLife]

So you are blaming her for him threatening her family? I suppose I was to blame for my ex shooting at me or my former FWB trying to break in my house when I wasn't home as well. If the situation was not to his liking he could have left at any time.

 

I did not see anywhere where he threatened her family in any way whatsoever.

 

He said he wanted to talk to her family. That is not threatening in my book.

 

She overdramatized the fact that he got angry at the breakup to make up for the fact that she strung him along.

 

Not nice.

 

She was NOT honest with him either... or us.

 

There was nothing in her earlier posts to indicate any 'anger' issues with him whatsoever. Nope. Just her bragging about how nice it was to have a guy who wants a relationship with her fawning over her while she enjoys hot sex with a young guy.

 

All relationships have rules. She broke the rules for a 'responsible' FWB arrangement.