Do men avoid settling as women get older?

[Disenchantedly Yours]

ATrainofAngels

why aren't these gorgeous women dating 5'6 average joe chubby types who don't make any money?? Explain that to me

 

I see gorgeous women dating men that don't make a lot of money. :/ Although I don't understand why she has to be "gorgeous" to validate an average joe? Why didn't you instead say "I don't see women dating 5'6 average joe chubby types. Why does she have to be some ideal of Maxim modelship for men like you to consider her worthy enough to validate an average joe?

 

I've met tons of frumpy men in my life who were fantastic guys who never had any luck with women. Yet I go to parties with my best friend and his super rich family friends and it's just absolutely mind blowing how often you see men dating women way out of their league

 

If said "fantastic guy" can't translate his fantasticness through social skills, then it's not going to matter much how fantastic he is. Usually people with a lot of money have a level of confidence and arrogance because of things coming to easily to them and their social skills tend to override that of a more normal guy who might not have lived the same experience. Further, usually what other men qualify as "fantastic" in their friends and other men is not always what other women look for.

 

 

I haven't had any women because I'm shy - but that's the difference right there

If I was a woman, it wouldn't matter if I'm shy, stupid, unemployed, or whatever.

 

This is just aggreivating and really demeaning toward women. Congradulations. You just joined the ranks of men that don't think women are human beings who experience normal human experiences such as shyness and troubles dating. I was very shy in my late teens and early 20s. And I didn't have tons of men coming out of the woodwork to date me. I did get hit on but it was usually by douchie guys. I think it was the douchie guys that hit on me because they didn't know how to read social signals so they probably just went after a girl regardless of what signals she was giving out.

 

Now I am not goregous either. So that probably makes my worth and experiece to you completely worthless because apparently the only kind of women men around here care about are the super hot ones. Which is why you got everything from average guys to hot guys complaining about the hot girls. Regular girls be damned. So continue to sit high on your thrown and tell ME that I can be stupid, shy and ignorant and all I got to do is sit and look pretty but I am telling you right now that you know jack about women and their experiences if you truly believe that. Neither do you really care to know much more about women then your predisposed.

 

I know women of all kinds of looks, beautiful to regular to not that good looking that have been treated like crap by men. Even in their youth. Oh yes wait I know..that's because they picked the "bad boys" and ignored such champs of men such as the men displayed here that are telling women over and over again how worthless they are and how they deserve to be treated crappy because everthing in the world IS womens' fault after all. Gosh , I guess if a women picked one of the wonderful men on LS, she could have settled down with a "good man". Nevermind that these men on here that think of themselves as so "good" keep blaming women for everything and find a maclious glee in telling women how crappy they are and how worthless they become a they get older while touting their own horns about how wonderful they are. Are these one of the "good men" a woman could have ended up with? I don't see any "goodness" in a man like that.

 

 

As long as I was good looking, I would have a line of men approaching me at all times.

 

Yeah we get it. Women aren't human. All they have to do is have a pretty face and their life is cake. When men say this stuff all it tells me is that they never really talked to a woman with any honesty in wanting to get to know her.

 

My sister gets hit on constantly everywhere we ever go... she's been dating guys since she was 14 years old and she's even more shy than I am. I've seen her get hit on by professional athletes for god's sake

 

You keep mentioning your sister. Post a picture of her. Lets see this goregous girl.

 

On the flipside, I just don't think my looks are any significant advantage. I would trade my physique and face to be a 35 year old frumpy high status male any day of the week

 

I've been attracted to all kinds of men. Stereotypically hot men and not so stereotypically hot men. I suspect alot of women are as fluid as me. I have been turned off by stereotypical hot men and turned off by not so steretypically hot men. For me, its less about looks and more about chemstry. While women might like a good looking guy, I suspect women are more fluid in their attraction.

 

If you would trade in your life to be a 35 year old man that's your own issue you need to resolve. But it tells me that you just don't like yourself very much and that's sad.

 

And frankly, despite all the older guys on here saying how great they are at their age and how crappy women on, none of them sound very happy.

 

this conversation is about our society, not me and you. I like to think of people like me and you as being enlightened (people who want real 100% equality on both sides for everything), but we're part of the minority here.

 

Umm, this conversation is about people. You claim your so enlightened but you want to trade yourself in for what you perceive to be a cliche of a 35 year old man. That makes no sense.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

I don't think what you wrote is true at all. Look at all of the guys who are in medical school, law school, or some other grad school when they are in their mid-20s. A lot of women simply don't want guys like that when they are in school either because those guys are too busy, don't have money, or are too "boring" perhaps because they are wrapped up in their schoolwork. Those guys certainly aren't fratboy-types.

 

If you only meet guys who want to live the fratboy lifestyle, it is probably because you meet men are bars or you don't show any signs of interest to non-player-types and are left with the type of men who hit on 20 women a night. Maybe you should go for older guys?

 

Alot of guys in law/med and other grad schools are so focused on their carreers that they don't sometimes even want a relationship for themselves until they are more settled.

 

When I was 20 I didn't date frat guy types and I still had a hard time finding a man that wanted to be serious in his relationship. So all these serious minded men being spoke of are more of a unicorn then a staple. I also didn't really go to clubs..shocking I know. Makes it harder and harder to blame everything on women when you actually talk to women about their experiences.

 

Frankly, why would I go for older guys? if they don't even like their own age enough to date women their own age why should I date them? I think younger women should be very careful about how a man views his own age and her age. Even if he is an older guy and he views her age as some kind of prize, he's not a good man to be in a relationship with. It matters how you think about women. It matters where a man thinks a woman's worth is. And what LS is teaching me is that a lot of men on here don't sincerely like women. They just like what they think they can get from women. And that has nothing to do with real love, real like for women or real relationships.

[fortyninethousand322]

 

This is just aggreivating and really demeaning toward women. Congradulations. You just joined the ranks of men that don't think women are human beings who experience normal human experiences such as shyness and troubles dating. I was very shy in my late teens and early 20s. And I didn't have tons of men coming out of the woodwork to date me. I did get hit on but it was usually by douchie guys. I think it was the douchie guys that hit on me because they didn't know how to read social signals so they probably just went after a girl regardless of what signals she was giving out.

 

 

To a shy guy, women don't have troubles dating. Because all we see is women getting hit on by other guys. Granted, it might not be by men they're interested in, but to a shy guy we tend to internalize that. I wouldn't expect you to understand since you're not a guy, but you could try to be a little more sympathetic. There's really nothing sexist or demeaning about having that perspective about women if it's because you're shy and inexperienced.

Edited November 1, 2011 by fortyninethousand322

[Sanman]

I want someone from my generation - my boyfriend is only 3 years older and HE already grew up listening to some lame 80s bands that I can't relate to. So even at this little difference in age there already is some sort of disconnect. I can't imagine what would it be like with an older man who grew up listening to the Beatles or was part of the peace, love and happiness movement. He probably wants to drink wine on the weekends and watch some boring movie instead of living it up. I get along better with guys from my generation and I find that this holds true for most people.

 

I'm younger than you and I would love to drink wine and watch a boring movie instead of living it up most weekends. Then again, I have a solid career and am in a serious relationship. I am too busy to spend my weekends hung over. Maybe that is the issue rather than men your age not wanting to be serious.

[Sanman]

Alot of guys in law/med and other grad schools are so focused on their carreers that they don't sometimes even want a relationship for themselves until they are more settled.

 

When I was 20 I didn't date frat guy types and I still had a hard time finding a man that wanted to be serious in his relationship. So all these serious minded men being spoke of are more of a unicorn then a staple. I also didn't really go to clubs..shocking I know. Makes it harder and harder to blame everything on women when you actually talk to women about their experiences.

 

 

Yet, I have a large group of (admittedly average looking) friends who are those unicorns and are lawyers/professors/doctors/professionals. So, either unicorns travel in packs or your experience is not necessarily representative either. Most of these guys are on the nerdy side and got serious after age 25.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

To a shy guy, women don't have troubles dating. Because all we see is women getting hit on by other guys. Granted, it might not be by men they're interested in, but to a shy guy we tend to internalize that. I wouldn't expect you to understand since you're not a guy, but you could try to be a little more sympathetic. There's really nothing sexist or demeaning about having that perspective about women if it's because you're shy and inexperienced.

 

Just becaues your shy doesn't mean you get to lump women into a collective group of having an easy breezy life with no issues of their own. Especially when women here are telling you different. I am a woman and I am telling you as someone who has been rather shy with men my whole life that men aren't beating down the door to ask me out.

 

What bothers me about this is that even "shy/average" guys are collectively looking at the hottest most out going girls out that probably do get hit on alot and they are slunking off. Meanwhile there are probably alot of regular girls sitting in the corners not getting hit on that are getting completely ignored by said shy guy that is too busy with his eye on the hot/out going girl. I'm certainly not ulgy or anything but I am not the hottest girl out there either and I've gone out and sat at bars with friends and watched guys approach really hot out going girls and ignore other ones. Ignored me! So don't sit there and act like dating is so easy for women as a collective group. Women are human beings just like you that sometimes face the same social issues.

You want sympathy but you have to understand that women are people just like you first.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

Yet, I have a large group of (admittedly average looking) friends who are those unicorns and are lawyers/professors/doctors/professionals. So, either unicorns travel in packs or your experience is not necessarily representative either. Most of these guys are on the nerdy side and got serious after age 25.

 

I'm confused by what you are saying here. That your friends wanted to settled down before 25 but couldn't or they only got serious after age 25?

[Sanman]

I'm confused by what you are saying here. That your friends wanted to settled down before 25 but couldn't or they only got serious after age 25?

 

Some did not want to settle down and others never got a girl till they were in a career. Either way, we are all in serious relationship and between ages 25-30. Though, a number of these guys have less than five relationships. A few were dating since college and finally got married after 25 when they were both settled.

[verhrzn]

To a shy guy, women don't have troubles dating. Because all we see is women getting hit on by other guys. Granted, it might not be by men they're interested in, but to a shy guy we tend to internalize that. I wouldn't expect you to understand since you're not a guy, but you could try to be a little more sympathetic. There's really nothing sexist or demeaning about having that perspective about women if it's because you're shy and inexperienced.

 

You're asking her to be sympathetic without being sympathetic yourself. What shy guys see are PARTICULAR women getting hit on.... not every woman has that experience. It sounds like Disenchanted gets hit on unevenly.

 

Me myself, I don't get hit on AT ALL. And yet guys seem to completely ignore our (girls like me) experiences. Why? Probably because they don't notice the girls that AREN'T getting hit on, because the girls that aren't getting hit on aren't gorgeous. And isn't that just a bit hypocritical... that shy guys complain that women don't notice them, when they themselves are ignoring all the women who aren't attractive enough to get hit on.

[Shaun-Dro]

After a certain age, so do men.

 

And the message usually is that older women are garbage - some men don't treat them/us that way, but many do, and we're just supposed to accept it? Why? I told a man the other day, that the women his own age have just as much value as he does, although he, at least, was looking at women up to age 49. So what's wrong with a 53 year old woman, if this man thinks that he should be able to attract a 36 year old?

 

Again, the value of a woman are placed on her youth, looks, and how well she cares for others as well as herself, so 53 is beyond that point.

[fortyninethousand322]

What bothers me about this is that even "shy/average" guys are collectively looking at the hottest most out going girls out that probably do get hit on alot and they are slunking off. Meanwhile there are probably alot of regular girls sitting in the corners not getting hit on that are getting completely ignored by said shy guy that is too busy with his eye on the hot/out going girl. I'm certainly not ulgy or anything but I am not the hottest girl out there either and I've gone out and sat at bars with friends and watched guys approach really hot out going girls and ignore other ones. Ignored me! So don't sit there and act like dating is so easy for women as a collective group. Women are human beings just like you that sometimes face the same social issues.

You want sympathy but you have to understand that women are people just like you first.

 

Oh what a bunch of hogwash. I've never gone after the "hottest" women around. Why? Because they're usually not as smart or as nice as the regular/cute looking women.

 

Women are not regular human beings to me. They are better than me. Me < women. Fact.

 

Stop acting like this is a hate fest on women. How many dates have you been on in the past year? I'll bet it's WAY more than I have.

 

You're asking her to be sympathetic without being sympathetic yourself. What shy guys see are PARTICULAR women getting hit on.... not every woman has that experience. It sounds like Disenchanted gets hit on unevenly.

 

Me myself, I don't get hit on AT ALL. And yet guys seem to completely ignore our (girls like me) experiences. Why? Probably because they don't notice the girls that AREN'T getting hit on, because the girls that aren't getting hit on aren't gorgeous. And isn't that just a bit hypocritical... that shy guys complain that women don't notice them, when they themselves are ignoring all the women who aren't attractive enough to get hit on.

 

You have posted your picture before. Given my own history I would be reluctant to approach you. Why? Because I would assume you wouldn't be interested (i.e. you were too good for me).

 

You have personal issues regarding your looks and can't accept the fact that you are far from hideous and are in fact a genuinely attractive woman. That's a totally separate issue.

[Shaun-Dro]

I'm an 'old guy' in my 50's. I met my wife when I was in my mid .30's and she was 27. Loved her dearly until she passed away from Lupus 8 years ago.

 

In the last 5 years or so I've only been attracted to women my own age. Perhaps after 'the breeding' influence has diminished, we return more to a pursuit of companionship.

 

I'm a health and fitness nut...enjoy outdoor pursuits, etc. That's what I look for in a female companion. Physical sex, etc. is a positive but less of a variable than in my younger days. Happy to hike up a mountain together or hold hands while attending the theater.

 

Bottom line...to all you 'older' ladies in your mid 30's. I say be patient and in a few years the guys your own age will be as thrilled at wooing you as they would a younger woman. In fact, those fellows who are the real catches are the ones closer to your own age with whom you'll find a mutual comfort zone.

 

To all you 'nice guys'. You do eventually get the best gals . Never stop being the nice guy. Never ever lower your standards of behavior. As most women experience less than fulfilling relationships in younger years, they'll appreciate you more than ever. It's not as if you get her 'at the end'. You'll still have 30 or 40 years to do what you always wanted to do ...make her feel special and the center of your universe. She'll reciprocate in kind because she'll know you mean it.

 

This is an insightful thread, but sorry to burst your bubble with this pointy needle: it's unfair for good men to sit there and wait for women to decline physically, finish letting scumbags bang her and dust herself off before she decides that it's time to give the better man a shot. Not gonna happen.

[Woggle]

I am 32 and I barely listen to anything made after 2001 with a few exceptions.

 

There are plenty of men in their 20s who are relationship minded but their women caught GIGs and dumped them to chase after jerks. Just read this board where there seems to be a thread about that every day. Some women talk a good game about commitment but seem to run the other way when they actually get it.

[AngelTheSadPanda]

I'm seriously wondering about this now because it looks like a trend as I'm getting older and its not right

 

When I was in my 20s guys my age and older couldn't wait to see me and call me every other day with new plans, etc. Of course I knew that it was my looks that attracted them. I'm blonde, green eyes, 5'4 and fit

 

But things have started shifting since I turned 30 especially if a guy finds out about that

 

I'm 35 now btw but am still looking pretty good I think, no kids, and never married with a career as rehab nurse. I'm trying to understand what's the problem here because these guys never say anything other than take me out for a few dates, make out, try to sleep with me, but when I tell them about wanting to settle down, have a family soon, they take off.

 

Again people, when I was in my 20s men tried to get serious with me, but now it's the complete opposite since I'm older and I'm getting worried

 

Febreze,

Yes, they do. You HAVE to read this article. It was life changing for me. You won't regret it. It basically says a guys marriage light comes on around 27-28ish after college- then they stay in "get married" mode for about 5-6 years... after that the light goes off and they stay single.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/3088165/ns/today-today_hidden/t/why-men-marry-some-women-not-others/

 

Amazing article.

[verhrzn]

Oh what a bunch of hogwash. I've never gone after the "hottest" women around. Why? Because they're usually not as smart or as nice as the regular/cute looking women.

 

Women are not regular human beings to me. They are better than me. Me < women. Fact.

 

Stop acting like this is a hate fest on women. How many dates have you been on in the past year? I'll bet it's WAY more than I have.

 

You have posted your picture before. Given my own history I would be reluctant to approach you. Why? Because I would assume you wouldn't be interested (i.e. you were too good for me).

 

You have personal issues regarding your looks and can't accept the fact that you are far from hideous and are in fact a genuinely attractive woman. That's a totally separate issue.

 

My own attitude about my looks was not the point. The point was that dating ISN'T easy for women. You actually illustrate a perfect example... The attitude I and Disenchanted were criticizing is that if a woman is attractive, then all she needs to do is sit back and guys will come to her, but they'll all be players, and she's ignoring the shy/good guys, etc. Except THEN you say that the reason I'm NOT getting hit on is because of my "good looks!"

 

In other words, a shy guy should recognize that dating ISN'T easy for women, especially as a lot of women DON'T get hit on.

[Chicago_Guy]

Would you advise a man that can't find a relationship to "go for older women"? I don't think so...so spare me the advise of going after older men. Aside from the fact that I'm already taken anyway. Why should I settle for an older man? I want someone from my generation - my boyfriend is only 3 years older and HE already grew up listening to some lame 80s bands that I can't relate to. So even at this little difference in age there already is some sort of disconnect. I can't imagine what would it be like with an older man who grew up listening to the Beatles or was part of the peace, love and happiness movement. He probably wants to drink wine on the weekends and watch some boring movie instead of living it up. I get along better with guys from my generation and I find that this holds true for most people.

 

Besides, men my age are more attractive to look at. I feel like I'm looking at what could be my dad when I look at older guys. Which is kinda weird. That doesn't mean I'm a hypocrite who whines about men going after younger women and in turn bashes older men herself. No, I've always been attracted to "my generation" and I assume it will always be like that up until old age. When I was 20 I found people my age attractive, now at 29 I see 20 year old boys and all I see is a baby face. Nothing attractive, nothing manly about it, all it brings out is the motherly instinct at most. And I'm sure even though I don't find men at 50 attractive NOW (I'm not gonna f*** my father), I'm sure I will find them attractive at 50. Whereas I doubt it's gonna be the other way around. Women basically get screwed over no matter what age. If they are young and beautiful enough during their 20s, they get tons of attention only because of that, but it's no real commitment, just being used as a trophy. And when they're older they get tossed to the side because they're too old. Men complain that there are no good women left anymore, but to me it seems the other way around. And men contribute to the hardening of women by using them for sex only and nothing else.

 

I am not suggesting that you go for men 20 years older, as that is too much of an age gap for most people. However, you might want to consider a man 5-10 years older.

 

"And men contribute to the hardening of women by using them for sex only and nothing else." I don't know how to respond to this - women are the gatekeepers of sex. If they are consistently being "used" for sex then there is a reason for it.

[ATrainofAngels]

This is just aggreivating and really demeaning toward women. Congradulations. You just joined the ranks of men that don't think women are human beings who experience normal human experiences such as shyness and troubles dating. I was very shy in my late teens and early 20s. And I didn't have tons of men coming out of the woodwork to date me. I did get hit on but it was usually by douchie guys. I think it was the douchie guys that hit on me because they didn't know how to read social signals so they probably just went after a girl regardless of what signals she was giving out.

 

 

 

I'm sorry I just don't buy it. For several reasons

 

 

1)What you consider difficulty dating is absolutely nothing compared to what the average male (especially shy male) considers difficulty dating. The average single male gets rejected about as often as he changes clothes (otherwise he will always be single). Want to trade places with me where your only chance to ever date anybody would be to approach random strangers in public places?? Yea that's what I thought. A woman complaining about the dating world is like a person born in the US complaining to a person born in poverty stricken Africa about how life is so "hard"

 

 

2)I have sisters and female cousins...none of them have ever approached men and all of them have always had a steady stream of quality guys courting them all throughout their lives

 

 

 

and also you're wrong about me - I don't have any problems with girls who are cute and have a great personality - that's actually what I prefer over the super gorgeous girls anyways

[ATrainofAngels]

What bothers me about this is that even "shy/average" guys are collectively looking at the hottest most out going girls out that probably do get hit on alot and they are slunking off. Meanwhile there are probably alot of regular girls sitting in the corners not getting hit on that are getting completely ignored by said shy guy that is too busy with his eye on the hot/out going girl. I'm certainly not ulgy or anything but I am not the hottest girl out there either and I've gone out and sat at bars with friends and watched guys approach really hot out going girls and ignore other ones. Ignored me! So don't sit there and act like dating is so easy for women as a collective group. Women are human beings just like you that sometimes face the same social issues.

You want sympathy but you have to understand that women are people just like you first.

 

 

anytime you go out to a bar, pretty much all the girls there are with a group of about 10 women (which makes it impossible to approach them) so you have no idea what their situation is (if they have a boyfriend at home or not)

 

 

on top of that, Women will never show any real signs or initiate conversation with guys so it just makes a difficult situation that much harder. How the fck am I supposed to know if you're here to have a good time with your friends or you're actually single??

 

 

I just don't understand why women think it's so awful for them to put in any work in the dating world - all men should approach them, all men should have to constantly face rejection and all men should do all the work while the woman sits back and chooses her mates

 

 

that's chivalry right, men are stronger than woman so it's okay for them to face all that?

[verhrzn]

I'm sorry I just don't buy it. For several reasons

 

 

1)What you consider difficulty dating is absolutely nothing compared to what the average male (especially shy male) considers difficulty dating. The average single male gets rejected about as often as he changes clothes (otherwise he will always be single). Want to trade places with me where your only chance to ever date anybody would be to approach random strangers in public places?? Yea that's what I thought. A woman complaining about the dating world is like a person born in the US complaining to a person born in poverty stricken Africa about how life is so "hard"

 

 

2)I have sisters and female cousins...none of them have ever approached men and all of them have always had a steady stream of quality guys courting them all throughout their lives

 

I'd trade with the average "shy" guy in a heart beat. It's way better to be a shy/unattractive guy with a good personality than an unattractive girl with a good personality. (I think the scale goes something like Unattractive Woman < Unattractive Man < Attractive Man < Attractive Woman.)

[ATrainofAngels]

My own attitude about my looks was not the point. The point was that dating ISN'T easy for women. You actually illustrate a perfect example... The attitude I and Disenchanted were criticizing is that if a woman is attractive, then all she needs to do is sit back and guys will come to her, but they'll all be players, and she's ignoring the shy/good guys, etc. Except THEN you say that the reason I'm NOT getting hit on is because of my "good looks!"

 

In other words, a shy guy should recognize that dating ISN'T easy for women, especially as a lot of women DON'T get hit on.

 

 

 

 

the average woman would kill herself after spending a year in the shoes of a single male

 

 

 

so don't give me any bullsht about how dating is difficult for women. Your "difficulty" is child's play

[Disenchantedly Yours]

The lack of humanity from men on this board for women never ceases to stop astounding me.

[ATrainofAngels]

I'd trade with the average "shy" guy in a heart beat. It's way better to be a shy/unattractive guy with a good personality than an unattractive girl with a good personality. (I think the scale goes something like Unattractive Woman < Unattractive Man < Attractive Man < Attractive Woman.)

 

 

but you're not unattractive, so what the hell are you talking about???

 

 

 

you don't have to be super gorgeous, even a decent looking woman has way way way way more options than 95% of men

[Woggle]

The lack of humanity from men on this board for women never ceases to stop astounding me.

 

And we all know women just tons of humanity for men. It goes both ways.

[ATrainofAngels]

The lack of humanity from men on this board for women never ceases to stop astounding me.

 

 

listen, I never claimed women's life is a cake walk

 

 

 

I say it's a cake walk compared to the dating life of your average single male. Your idea of difficulty is laughable. How many dates have you had the last year??

 

 

 

and you need to get off "men don't respect women, men think women are worthless, all we want is sex" nonsense. You're dealing with guys in this thread who agree with a lot of what you're saying - most of us in this thread would take a decent looking woman who was a great girlfriend over a gorgeous one any day of the week.

[verhrzn]

but you're not unattractive, so what the hell are you talking about???

 

you don't have to be super gorgeous, even a decent looking woman has way way way way more options than 95% of men

 

... Which is why I've been single for nearly a year, been dumped TWICE for being unattractive (actual words), NEVER get hit on or flirted with, and never get messaged online.

 

Exactly what bar do I have to clear to qualify for sympathy from the "only men have a tough time with dating" crowd?