Do men avoid settling as women get older?

[stillafool]

Oh bull. This isn't about men being "forthright". This is about bitterment directed to women no matter her age and trying to tout a man's importance over a woman. Your comments are a perfect example of this. You make the horrible assumption that every young woman is single because she is "picky, flakey or rude..." That's the common justification on why it's okay to say abusive things about women no matter her age. When we are younger, we are heart breaking b*tches that have left a destructive path of ruined men behind us and we are only single because of how awful and picky we are. When we are older, we are bitter old b*tches that deserve everything we get because apparently all single older women have done nothing but abuse men with crappy behavior. It makes no sense and it's really actually hateful toward women. This thread is chalked full of men "pretending" they care about women meanwhile telling them with gleeful little smiles hidden behind their computers that "they deserve it" and that women are somehow less then them with age. How misognistic can you get?

 

Everything is women's fault! Nevermind that alot of young men today don't want to settle down. Nevermind all the men that string women along. Nevermind all the men that play women. It's still a woman's fault if she picks that kind of man but it's not a man's fault if he picks a "flakey, rude or picky" women. Funny that isn't it. How it all leads back to being a woman's fault and this meantality that a woman "gets" what she "deserves" if she somehow is single beyond a certain age. Well I call bull on that nonsense. I've heard it said over and over again by guys here that are bitter because women turned them down. So they attach these feelings to other women they see with their own dating issues and BLAME these women for what another woman might have done to them. Heck, they BLAME women for what another woman might not have EVEN done to him but maybe he heard some friend it happened to.

 

I refuse to let men like that punish me or say horribly abusive things about me because I'm single past a certain age. Or make the horrible rationalization that women are worth less then men. Which is basically what is being said in this thread.

 

 

 

 

Yes, the dating scene has changed. Women have more choices now. No longer to women have to marry old dudes because of economic choices. They can now wait to get married because they go to college and get jobs and make their own money.

 

Oh and by the way, a man peeks way before 30. By 30, his sperm is on the decline. So if you want to talk about people settling down in their prime years, lets do that. But lets not hold women to a standard that you refuse to acknowledge should be held to men too. If men are waiting until their 30s to settle down, they are past their primes. They aren't all the sudden better at 30. And it's not like most guys are going to be making loads of money anyway. So what we have is guys past their prime with an over inflated idea about their own worth while they condemn women all based out of their internal bitterness. And when women don't buy into it, then you get this vomit fest we are seeing in this thread about how worthless women are when compared to men and how much better men get. Nonsense. Men don't get better with age. they get older like everyone else. And if a guy wants to wait until he is 40 to have kids, his kids are the only ones that are going to have to deal with the possible health side affects of that.

 

 

 

Personally from what she wrote about herself I also think its the men she is picking. Plenty of guys out there that would still be happy to settle down and start a family with the OP, but its no shock the more desirable guys her age are going to want to settle down with a younger version of her, just like she said it was like back in her 20s.

 

Oh I don't deny that there are men that seek out younger women.

 

Just as I don't deny that there are women that seek out richer men then what other men can provide.

 

You get bad seeds on both sides of the spectrum.

 

Usually younger women don't want to settle down so while these men move to younger women to settle down with, the younger woman is playing him for all he is worth. Because *that* is the kind of woman *he* picked. And once again, the revolving door of bitterment is fed.

 

I do know this though. I have no doubt in my mind that most women are happy they didn't settle for someone just because they were young and in a relationship. That most women, while wanting a relationship with a truly good man, not just a man that thinks he good while he talks about how much women are to blame for everything and how worthless they are, are happier to be single if they haven't found him yet. Better to be single and living your life then to be with someone you felt you had to settle for because of fear monguling from either sides.

 

Lets stop this nonsense of blaming women for everything and touting the virtues of how much better men are when it's not even true.

 

Tell it like it is Sister!!!

[123321]

Hey, I don't deny that as a woman ages she as an increase chance in birth defects or troubles for her baby. But the truth is the risk in older fathers is just as important. You can't use science when it best suits you and manipulate it when it doesn't. The only one that is going to pay for an older father's ignorance about his own sperm quality is that man's children. Not any woman. So if you want to lie to yourself and say that men don't contribute to birth defects in their children when it comes to age, you're pretty much going up against the entire medical community.

 

Show me the research that shows a 40 year old mans sperm have a 1% chance of causing birth defects and you will have a point, until then you are just blowing smoke. The actual research shows barely detectable trends like "risk of slightly earlier onset of Alzheimers" if the father is older. Mostly the risk is "harder to make a baby", which isn't such a big deal except in extreme cases.

 

The mans contribution to parental age risk for birth defects is, despite what you seem to wish, incredibly smaller than the womans. That's science, nothing more or less.

[azsinglegal]

 

 

Show me the research that shows a 40 year old mans sperm have a 1% chance of causing birth defects and you will have a point, until then you are just blowing smoke. The actual research shows barely detectable trends like "risk of slightly earlier onset of Alzheimers" if the father is older. Mostly the risk is "harder to make a baby", which isn't such a big deal except in extreme cases.

 

The mans contribution to parental age risk for birth defects is, despite what you seem to wish, incredibly smaller than the womans. That's science, nothing more or less.

 

You boys sure are touchy about your area down there.

 

Yet it's OK to call us women "out of our prime" at age 35, then blame US for birth defects because of OUR age.

 

Am I the only one who's finding this utterly ridiculous?

[123321]

Am I the only one who's finding this utterly ridiculous?

 

Probably. How is pointing out the facts being touchy? Also, of course all humans will on average be past their physical prime at 35, in men that just doesn't equate to "huge increased risk of birth defects", it has other repercussions.

[azsinglegal]

Probably. How is pointing out the facts being touchy? Also, of course all humans will on average be past their physical prime at 35, in men that just doesn't equate to "huge increased risk of birth defects", it has other repercussions.

 

You're right, because someone posted it on the internet it must be FACT!

 

And of course it doesn't have anything to do with the man. What was I thinking? Silly woman...

[silvermercy]

I work in biology research field so there's one thing we know about journal articles. They're as good as next week's journal articles. (Translation: their conclusions change every time.) For example, I could cite the increased paternal risks in TEENAGE fathers (the risks are huge for babies whose fathers are teens according to this research):

http://humrep.oxfordjournals.org/content/23/6/1290.full

So what does it mean? Next week/month there will be a different one challenging this of course.

 

I think the only reason older males have or had the advantage so far of getting younger women is for two reasons: 1) oppressive ancient patriarchal traditions (extreme examples are found today in Afghanistan where 50 year olds force-marry 13 year olds). 2) the very well-known fact that women prefer men with mature personalities, traits usually found in older men.

 

In the 1st case, the further we progress away from such traditions the more women have a choice to date who they want - at last.

In the 2nd case, had the younger men today possessed mature personalities, there would be very few women choosing to date men older than their own age. So selfish older men today should dread the time when the young boys start to mature in a faster rate (maturity is of course mostly influenced by society/culture).

 

So, bottom line is this:

Biology: minimal influence

Personality/Culture: MAJOR influence

 

(PS: Food for thought: Would Hitler try to destroy the world had he been born under different circumstances, education and principles?)

[Queen Zenobia]

I work in biology research field so there's one thing we know about journal articles. They're as good as next week's journal articles. (Translation: their conclusions change every time.) For example, I could cite the increased paternal risks in TEENAGE fathers (the risks are huge for babies whose fathers are teens according to this research):

http://humrep.oxfordjournals.org/content/23/6/1290.full

So what does it mean? Next week/month there will be a different one challenging this of course.

 

I think the only reason older males have or had the advantage so far of getting younger women is for two reasons: 1) oppressive ancient patriarchal traditions (extreme examples are found today in Afghanistan where 50 year olds force-marry 13 year olds). 2) the very well-known fact that women prefer men with mature personalities, traits usually found in older men.

 

In the 1st case, the further we progress away from such traditions the more women have a choice to date who they want - at last.

In the 2nd case, had the younger men today possessed mature personalities, there would be very few women choosing to date men older than their own age. So selfish older men today should dread the time when the young boys start to mature in a faster rate (maturity is of course mostly influenced by society/culture).

 

So, bottom line is this:

Biology: minimal influence

Personality/Culture: MAJOR influence

 

(PS: Food for thought: Would Hitler try to destroy the world had he been born under different circumstances, education and principles?)

 

We have choice in who we can date now. But, so do men. I don't see how "progress" is going to change anything. The last I checked no one is "forced" to date anyone.

 

And as for the Hitler thing: he very well could have turned out the same way. You could make a convincing case either way.

[123321]

You're right, because someone posted it on the internet it must be FACT! .

 

Here you go, references are listed at the bottom. Mazel tov.

[silvermercy]

We have choice in who we can date now. But, so do men. I don't see how "progress" is going to change anything. The last I checked no one is "forced" to date anyone.

 

And as for the Hitler thing: he very well could have turned out the same way. You could make a convincing case either way.

I was talking about progress in the eastern world mostly. But that doesn't mean women are out of the loop in the Western world either. It's only a few decades we've earned the right to vote (apparently we were too stupid and unimportant before that. LOL) and on various occasions the women's salaries are still not the same, but less, for the same work. What I meant was that the collective subconscious has not totally shifted from those age-old traditions even today in the modern world. The proof is in the misogynistic comments in this thread where some older men EXPECT younger women to date them as if it's their divine right. Of course women today are free to date anyone they want, but at the same time those of us who will NOT date much older men are only faced with the usual by them (but it's nature... men mature better... yada... yada...blah blah).

 

About Hitler, I've only cited it as an extreme example. Yes, it can go either way. However, there was a project in my class in the past and the conclusion was that it cannot be his DNA influencing his actions (it could, but only to a certain degree). (Now we could go to paraphysical realms and claim he had an evil SOUL, but that's nothing to do with DNA and/or the topic). lol

Edited October 21, 2011 by silvermercy

[Queen Zenobia]

I was talking about progress in the eastern world mostly. But that doesn't mean women are out of the loop in the Western world either. It's only a few decades we've earned the right to vote (apparently we were too stupid and unimportant before that. LOL) and the salaries are still not the same but less for the same work. What I meant was that the collective subconscious has not totally shifted from those age-old traditions even today in the modern world. The proof is in the misogynistic comments in this thread where some older men EXPECT younger women to date them as if it's their divine right. Of course women today are free to date anyone they want, but at the same time those of us who will NOT date much older men are only faced with the usual by them (but it's nature... men mature better... yada... yada...blah blah).

 

Well I haven't read every single post in this thread but I never got the impression that men on here "expected" young women to date them, but merely found it preferable. At least that's the impression I got. I really haven't seen much misogyny here.

 

As for the equal pay for equal work thing: there was a study a few years ago that found that when factoring in things like work experience, education, and work skills, etc. women actually make 98 cents on the dollar compared to men. Still not equal, but far closer than people make it out to be.

[123321]

.... where some older men EXPECT younger women to date them as if it's their divine right.

 

Or as if it happens all the time. More likely. I go to the bar, ask for beer, get beer. I go to the bar, ask for beer, get beer. I go to the bar, ask for beer, get beer. I go to the bar, ask for beer ... I expect to get a beer, just like always.

 

When it stops, I'll stop expecting it. Doubt it happens in my lifetime.

[silvermercy]

Well I haven't read every single post in this thread but I never got the impression that men on here "expected" young women to date them, but merely found it preferable. At least that's the impression I got. I really haven't seen much misogyny here.

 

As for the equal pay for equal work thing: there was a study a few years ago that found that when factoring in things like work experience, education, and work skills, etc. women actually make 98 cents on the dollar compared to men. Still not equal, but far closer than people make it out to be.

It's in this thread and the whole LS forum unfortunately. In other threads it's way more evident. We are being told constantly that once women reach 30, that's it! Forget about marriage and committed relationships... We're all doomed. LOL

 

I haven't read about that study but one of the most recent one says we need another 40 years to close the gap. Not sure about in the US, but in Europe the pay gap is bigger (for same work experience, parameters etc).

[azsinglegal]

Here you go, references are listed at the bottom. Mazel tov.

 

You do know anyone can write a wikepedia article, yes?

 

Thanks for the laugh. Been having a helluva Friday.

[silvermercy]

Or as if it happens all the time. More likely. I go to the bar, ask for beer, get beer. I go to the bar, ask for beer, get beer. I go to the bar, ask for beer, get beer. I go to the bar, ask for beer ... I expect to get a beer, just like always.

 

When it stops, I'll stop expecting it. Doubt it happens in my lifetime.

Well, I don't go to bars.

But my example would go like this for the men I'm talking about:

 

"I go to the cafeteria, ask for beer, do not get beer. I go to the cafeteria, ask for beer, do not get beer. I go to the cafeteria, ask for beer, do not get beer. I go to the cafeteria, ask for beer ... I expect to get a beer, just like always BUT I DO NOT GET A BEER and I'm very confused and upset, why doesn't the cafeteria serve alcohol?"

[azsinglegal]

(PS: Food for thought: Would Hitler try to destroy the world had he been born under different circumstances, education and principles?)

 

Um...Hitler didn't try to destroy the world actually.

 

I consider myself a bit of a history buff, and moreso on WWII. Being German I've gone to great lengths to read everything I can on WWII, including books on Hitler and his life.

 

It was an interesting childhood he had but not necessarily one that would predict his political career or the paths he took to dictatorship.

 

While I do agree nurture vs. nature is quite interesting...this was kind of an off the wall comparison to me.

 

But again, I'm just a silly single woman over 35 and what value do I add...

[silvermercy]

Um...Hitler didn't try to destroy the world actually.

 

I consider myself a bit of a history buff, and moreso on WWII. Being German I've gone to great lengths to read everything I can on WWII, including books on Hitler and his life.

 

It was an interesting childhood he had but not necessarily one that would predict his political career or the paths he took to dictatorship.

 

While I do agree nurture vs. nature is quite interesting...this was kind of an off the wall comparison to me.

 

But again, I'm just a silly single woman over 35 and what value do I add...

LOL

I watch too many Dr Evil clips I suppose!!

[Woggle]

I think it's probably a better idea for a man or a woman to settle down before 30 if they find the right one. Dating is a total minefield in the 30s and even late 20s for both men and women.

 

I know I usually stick up for gender on these forums but the men and a few women really need to stop this ageism. If a person has good things to offer they will still be a good catch at any age.

[norajane]

I know I usually stick up for gender on these forums but the men and a few women really need to stop this ageism. If a person has good things to offer they will still be a good catch at any age.

 

Absolutely! And if they're a bad catch, they'll be a bad catch at any age, too.

 

I feel bad for the people here who really buy into this ageism stuff. Every one of us will get older, and those who are afraid of aging and who believe older people are worthless and washed-up, will be some very unhappy people when they get there.

[xxoo]

I feel bad for the people here who really buy into this ageism stuff. Every one of us will get older, and those who are afraid of aging and who believe older people are worthless and washed-up, will be some very unhappy people when they get there.

 

It's a shame, too, because so many women feel more comfortable in their skin as they get older. I know I have experienced that. I wouldn't go back to my early 20s for nothin'

 

If a woman instead internalizes these messages that she is worthless or undesirable, she'll miss out on what should be the prime years of her life!

[Woggle]

The only exception I make to women aging are the ones who were hot and knew it in their younger days so they treated everybody like crap because they could. When all that hard living catches up with them they have nothing else to offer and get mad because man in his right mind wants them.

 

Not all women over 35 are like this by any means though.

[Quiet Storm]

The fact is that, even though it's not fair, I think this really is the way many men view ageing women. (not all men)

 

We can wish all day that the world was different, but the bottom line is that many 30s or 40s men would prefer a younger woman for a long term relatioinship or marriage. It sucks, but that's just the way it is.

 

This doesn't mean that 35+ women aren't valued, but that they may have less value in the eyes of single men looking to settle down and have a family. There are still men out there that won't judge, though.

 

If a woman chooses to focus on her career and education, and puts off having a serious relationship until later...she runs a risk of being devalued by some men, when she eventually becomes ready to settle down. It sucks, but it's true.

 

I am 35. The majority of my childhood was in the 80s. This is the time period when parenting focused on "self-esteem". I think a lot of parents gave their kids false expectations. They likely told their girls "you don't need a man" (true, but many women want a man) "Men will be beating down your door" "You are so smart, beautiful, accomplished, worthy, etc."

 

All of that is important and builds confidence, but it also sets women up to think that as soon as they are ready, there will be a long line of men just waiting to get a chance with them. And so they focus on their career, their education, their friends and have some meaningless relationships or FWBs along the way. All the while thinking that at 30 or 35 they will meet someone, marry and have babies.

 

I remember my grandmother telling me something like "Get married when you're young and fresh, and he will always see your beauty and treasure you forever".

 

My parents were upset when she told me that, because they didn't want me to rush into things. They told me not to pay any attention to her, that times were different now. (BTW, I met my husband at 15, married him at 20 and am still married with three kids. I went to college, but while I was married).

 

However, there is truth to what she said. Some men could care less about a woman's degree or an accomplished career. So while a woman is bettering herself and becoming self sufficient, she could be narrowing her pool of potential mates as the years go by. Not that she should care, if education and career are her priorities. But I think that's not true for a lot of women. Some ARE naturally inclined to settle down young, but focus on education and career because they think it's what they are supposed to do.

 

In all actuality, many of the marriage minded men have settled down by their 30s.

 

And the ones that are left, often DO choose younger women for many of the reasons mentioned. To them, younger means healthier babies. Younger means a wife with less sexual partners (this matters much more than most women think). Younger means twenty more years until she starts looking old. They look at it like buying a car, and the older ones have more miles on them. It's sad, harsh, but true.

 

I do think that there are men out there that aren't like this, but I think it will take longer to weed them out. And if you are 35 and want kids, there really isn't a lot of time.

 

I agree with many women on LS that say ageism isn't fair. It's not. But it's the sad reality of the world we live in, and it's not changing any time soon, IMO.

[MaxNoob]

There might be a twist here for the women that mentioned they look significantly younger than their age. It could be that they`re aging slower than most others. There was a study showing that people who look younger than their age actually do live longer; aging is not just a function of time, but also your genes.

 

It would interesting to take that study further; if a 30 year old woman looks like she`s 20, it could be that she is closer to 20 biologically, and maybe her fertility is declining at a slower rate. So looks are not deceiving in this case.

[azsinglegal]

There might be a twist here for the women that mentioned they look significantly younger than their age. It could be that they`re aging slower than most others. There was a study showing that people who look younger than their age actually do live longer; aging is not just a function of time, but also your genes.

 

It would interesting to take that study further; if a 30 year old woman looks like she`s 20, it could be that she is closer to 20 biologically, and maybe her fertility is declining at a slower rate. So looks are not deceiving in this case.

 

I can tell you first hand this isn't the case. I'm 38 - can pass for early 30s easy. I look very young. I always have.

 

I'm going thru menapause.

[thatone]

 

I do think that there are men out there that aren't like this, but I think it will take longer to weed them out. And if you are 35 and want kids, there really isn't a lot of time.

 

 

someone else posted this but i'll post it again...

 

the desperate nature of some women in their early 30s to marry and have kids drives men away, it doesn't catch them.

 

i'm 34. i have professional success. i spent my 20s alone working the 60-80 hour weeks. now that i have more time to spend on a social life, i'm not going to marry the first woman who'll say yes just because she wants children. sorry, it's not all about what she wants. if there weren't some things i wanted i wouldn't be with her, i'd just keep going on my own.

 

that was a potential source of tension with my last gf, although not the primary one that we eventually broke up over. when we had those conversations, she would point out how she was 33 and didn't have a lot of time to wait. but on the other hand she had the next two years of her professional/educational life all planned out with no time to spare for anyone but herself. if we hadn't broken up over another issue, that would've been the issue. she can't keep her independence and float demands about what she wants at the same time, it doesn't work that way. i'm not looking to 'casually' date until she decides that she wants her white dress and baby. even before the issue we did break up over arose, i had already told my family and friends who asked about her that within 6 months she would have to give up one of the job, the second degree, or the immediate desire for children. i wasn't going to wait around for two years while she declared her wants while giving up nothing in return.

 

so the bottom line is, everything your family told you in the 80s is wrong. you seem like you figured that out and bucked the trend en route to a happy marriage, but most women didn't. they believed what the culture of the day told them, no matter how wrong it was/is.

 

and the ones who still believe it will be here shortly to point the finger and declare how evil it is for men to want to 'control women' and 'deny them their careers' and all of that stuff i'm sure, when it isn't really the case. what men want is to not be last on her priority list. and if the men those women find notice that they come second to her friends, second to her job, second to her family get togethers, and second to her other future plans, her dreams of the white dress and baby will sink to the bottom of his list of priorities, because she isn't deserving of what she wants. everyone has to earn what they get.

Edited October 21, 2011 by thatone

[alphamale]

But it doesn't mean that your a big stud, although that's what your insinuating, because a 32 year old went out on a date with you.

I am a big stud, i'm educated, good looking and my family is rich.