Do men avoid settling as women get older?

[cerridwen]

I am a big stud, i'm educated, good looking and my family is rich.

 

CALL ME!

I promise not to leave you in the park.

In fact, I'll push you on the swings.

[azsinglegal]

I am a big stud, i'm educated, good looking and my family is rich.

 

There's a fine line between confident and arrogant. I think you've crossed over.

[ThsAmericanLife]

I think the only reason older males have or had the advantage so far of getting younger women is for two reasons: 1) oppressive ancient patriarchal traditions (extreme examples are found today in Afghanistan where 50 year olds force-marry 13 year olds). 2) the very well-known fact that women prefer men with mature personalities, traits usually found in older men.

 

In the 1st case, the further we progress away from such traditions the more women have a choice to date who they want - at last.

In the 2nd case, had the younger men today possessed mature personalities, there would be very few women choosing to date men older than their own age. So selfish older men today should dread the time when the young boys start to mature in a faster rate (maturity is of course mostly influenced by society/culture).

 

So, bottom line is this:

Biology: minimal influence

Personality/Culture: MAJOR influence

 

 

I agree with you... but I would ask... define 'mature'. Not all qualities that come with 'maturity' in men are good ones... in the US (and lots of other countries) that maturity comes with some pretty outdated notions of men's and women's 'roles' in a relationship.

 

I'm finding that, except for the most progressive men out there... I'm a much better 'fit' with men a bit younger... only because they don't have hang-ups about who makes more, who cooks/cleans, sexual tastes... whatever. They seem to embrace the idea of a 'partnership'... not something from 'Father Knows Best'

 

[grkBoy]

I thank God I was never of the mentality that I somehow would want a woman who's way younger than me.

 

I see guys my age (late 30s) chasing girls aged 18-24 mainly for one or both of these reasons:

 

a) They're young and naive, thus they're not going to easily reject a guy with decent looks and money.

 

b) They're young and beautiful, and thus these guys see 30something women as "expired".

 

 

I laugh at how much drama these guys get. I'm serious. I have yet to see the spring/autumn relationship work wonderfully. Usually the guy is complaining how she's immature or driving her nuts, etc. Seen one who managed to land a party girl, THEN he later complained how she always wants to go out partying.

 

It's misguided, and I'm happy I never fell into that trap. My fiance is two years younger than me, but I like that she's at my age and maturity level. She's my best friend as much as she's the love of my life.

[thatone]

I work in biology research field so there's one thing we know about journal articles. They're as good as next week's journal articles. (Translation: their conclusions change every time.) For example, I could cite the increased paternal risks in TEENAGE fathers (the risks are huge for babies whose fathers are teens according to this research):

http://humrep.oxfordjournals.org/content/23/6/1290.full

So what does it mean? Next week/month there will be a different one challenging this of course.

 

I think the only reason older males have or had the advantage so far of getting younger women is for two reasons: 1) oppressive ancient patriarchal traditions (extreme examples are found today in Afghanistan where 50 year olds force-marry 13 year olds). 2) the very well-known fact that women prefer men with mature personalities, traits usually found in older men.

 

In the 1st case, the further we progress away from such traditions the more women have a choice to date who they want - at last.

In the 2nd case, had the younger men today possessed mature personalities, there would be very few women choosing to date men older than their own age. So selfish older men today should dread the time when the young boys start to mature in a faster rate (maturity is of course mostly influenced by society/culture).

 

So, bottom line is this:

Biology: minimal influence

Personality/Culture: MAJOR influence

 

(PS: Food for thought: Would Hitler try to destroy the world had he been born under different circumstances, education and principles?)

 

 

i don't think we don't have to worry about men in their 20s killing us geezers off any time soon. if they had the know-how they'd have done it already .

 

the fact is, all of those mature things that women respond to take time to develop. you can't just flip a switch one day and declare yourself a mature, stable man. you have to figure out how first.

[Wolf18]

Women don't want to settle in their 20's, instead they do ridiculous tthings like "multi-date". They get so much attention and ignore 99% of men.

 

So what's the big deal when the roles reverse and men don't want to settle either?

 

Hypocrites.

[Woggle]

someone else posted this but i'll post it again...

 

the desperate nature of some women in their early 30s to marry and have kids drives men away, it doesn't catch them.

 

i'm 34. i have professional success. i spent my 20s alone working the 60-80 hour weeks. now that i have more time to spend on a social life, i'm not going to marry the first woman who'll say yes just because she wants children. sorry, it's not all about what she wants. if there weren't some things i wanted i wouldn't be with her, i'd just keep going on my own.

 

that was a potential source of tension with my last gf, although not the primary one that we eventually broke up over. when we had those conversations, she would point out how she was 33 and didn't have a lot of time to wait. but on the other hand she had the next two years of her professional/educational life all planned out with no time to spare for anyone but herself. if we hadn't broken up over another issue, that would've been the issue. she can't keep her independence and float demands about what she wants at the same time, it doesn't work that way. i'm not looking to 'casually' date until she decides that she wants her white dress and baby. even before the issue we did break up over arose, i had already told my family and friends who asked about her that within 6 months she would have to give up one of the job, the second degree, or the immediate desire for children. i wasn't going to wait around for two years while she declared her wants while giving up nothing in return.

 

so the bottom line is, everything your family told you in the 80s is wrong. you seem like you figured that out and bucked the trend en route to a happy marriage, but most women didn't. they believed what the culture of the day told them, no matter how wrong it was/is.

 

and the ones who still believe it will be here shortly to point the finger and declare how evil it is for men to want to 'control women' and 'deny them their careers' and all of that stuff i'm sure, when it isn't really the case. what men want is to not be last on her priority list. and if the men those women find notice that they come second to her friends, second to her job, second to her family get togethers, and second to her other future plans, her dreams of the white dress and baby will sink to the bottom of his list of priorities, because she isn't deserving of what she wants. everyone has to earn what they get.

 

Exactly. What most men want is a woman who knows how to actually be a partner and build a life together no matter what her age is. We don't want a princess who simply wants to use us as a prop for whatever she wants in life at that point because once those goals are met we know we will be discarded.

 

I also agree that except for the male chauvinists who want to take the right to vote away most men don't hold anything against a woman who wants to get an education and be a success. What we don't want are women who act like we are disposable now that they have those things. We don't want somebody who goes around saying she doesn't need a man in the most hostile and misandrist way possible. Of course everybody should be able to stand on their own but if she goes out of her way to constantly remind me how superfluous I am in her life then it is not a turn on.

 

I don't think this makes me a misogynist but if people call me one so be it.

[azsinglegal]

Exactly. What most men want is a woman who knows how to actually be a partner and build a life together no matter what her age is. We don't want a princess who simply wants to use us as a prop for whatever she wants in life at that point because once those goals are met we know we will be discarded.

 

I also agree that except for the male chauvinists who want to take the right to vote away most men don't hold anything against a woman who wants to get an education and be a success. What we don't want are women who act like we are disposable now that they have those things. We don't want somebody who goes around saying she doesn't need a man in the most hostile and misandrist way possible. Of course everybody should be able to stand on their own but if she goes out of her way to constantly remind me how superfluous I am in her life then it is not a turn on.

 

I don't think this makes me a misogynist but if people call me one so be it.

 

It's taken me a while to figure out men want respect, and by that...they want me to ASK for their help even if I don't need it. If I don't make him feel needed, why would he stick around?

 

I remind myself of this daily seeing as how I've been on my own for so long that when I tell a man something, I need to form it in more of a "what do you think" kinda way instead of a "this is what I'm doing" kinda way. If that makes sense.

[thatone]

It's taken me a while to figure out men want respect, and by that...they want me to ASK for their help even if I don't need it. If I don't make him feel needed, why would he stick around?

 

I remind myself of this daily seeing as how I've been on my own for so long that when I tell a man something, I need to form it in more of a "what do you think" kinda way instead of a "this is what I'm doing" kinda way. If that makes sense.

 

that's exactly correct. it doesn't take much, just showing me that my opinions are valued.

 

in fact, that's what me and my former gf did fight over. when i had an issue with her, i would bring it up to her, tell her what i thought, and listen to what she had to say, and we would come to some sort of agreement like rational adults.

 

when she had an issue with me it was all hidden under cold/distant attitude until i all but beat a sentence out of her. and when i finally put my foot down and told her i'd had enough of that behavior, the response i got was "my sister said.." and "i don't have time to deal with this (referring to her job/school again)" and that was it.

 

i waited two days for her to make the breakup phone call and the only thing she had to say for herself during that was typical college girl fantasy BS (someday i'll meet someone who was like my ex when i least expect it blah blah).

 

so yeah, i guess the lesson is a lot of people just never figure it out.

[Sanman]

It's taken me a while to figure out men want respect, and by that...they want me to ASK for their help even if I don't need it. If I don't make him feel needed, why would he stick around?

 

I remind myself of this daily seeing as how I've been on my own for so long that when I tell a man something, I need to form it in more of a "what do you think" kinda way instead of a "this is what I'm doing" kinda way. If that makes sense.

 

 

It is interesting that many people concentrate on their own wants/needs and few bother to consider what a partner may want from them. Yet, being what a partner needs/wants usually gets you what you want/need.

[ThsAmericanLife]

It's taken me a while to figure out men want respect, and by that...they want me to ASK for their help even if I don't need it. If I don't make him feel needed, why would he stick around?

 

I remind myself of this daily seeing as how I've been on my own for so long that when I tell a man something, I need to form it in more of a "what do you think" kinda way instead of a "this is what I'm doing" kinda way. If that makes sense.

 

Personally, I don't feel the need to play 'weak' just so a man will feel 'needed'.

 

Most people (whether it is romantic or platonic) want someone they feel close to to value their opinion and have some level of respect and admiration for them. Someone they can share their deepest feelings and fears with.

 

Building and maintaining strong relationships of any kind relies on being able to lean on one another. It is how we show our trust.

 

I'm very humbled by the trust my friends show in me... and a few men... who don't feel the need to try to break my spirit to prove they are 'men'.

[Woggle]

It's not about playing week or even being needed. It is about showing a man that you respect him and value him in your life instead of treating him as some disposable thing you take or leave. Deep down most women want to able to lean on their man anyway no matter how independent they are. I always hear women say they are tired of having to be the strong one. The way to get a man to be strong sometimes is not reminding us how useless and disposable you think we are.

[Shaun-Dro]

The irony in your post Shaun-Dro is that all you did was some mild accusations with no factual basis to back yourself up. You talk about how logical men are and how they think things out before they open their mouths but this post clearly displays otherwise! You haven't said one word in regards to the comments I acutually made.

 

I also have to say that the idea that men are more logical then women is one of the more misoginistic viewpoints.

 

I would easily contest your remarks but I have henchmen in here doing all of it for me so let the good times roll!

[Disenchantedly Yours]

Sanman

Wow, I quoted you. Post #97 (third paragraph under quote 2). Do you even pay attention to what you say?

 

 

Actually, Sanman, I see the confusion here. That was actually a qoute said by ascendotum orginally and it is something that I was responding to that should have been put in a qoute box and wasn't. Glad I could clear that up for you.

 

 

See, this is what I mean. No, I post here when I am bored and have free time. This site simply kills time for me when I am not doing anything better. However, thank you for telling me why I am here and what my agenda is. Again, you refuse to listen and just spew vitriol.

 

The most vitriol being spilled is about how worthless women are. I never said men were worthless or worth less if they made less money or where short. I infact find a wide range of men attractive. There is so much vitriol spread on this message board about how evil women are and at the same time, how less deserving of life we are.

 

Post #92, first line. Again, do you even read what you write?

 

Yes, I believe you to be somewhat bitter because of previous comments I've read of yours.

 

 

If you keep moving on, there is not guarantee that you don't let go of your best options and regret it.

 

I suspect there are reasons why people let go of previous options and move on. I also suspect in most cases, people are happy with this choice. The OP's problem wasn't that she wanted anyone particular from her past. Just the dating struggles she found herself encountering now.

 

Nothing is going to make a difference to you. You are the one with the agenda and no one is going to change your mind. You see what you want to see. I really am done with you.

 

Same thing could be said of you. So I find it a little twisted that your acting like your opinion is so fluid and open and everyone else is close minded.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

I am a big stud, i'm educated, good looking and my family is rich.

 

Aren't we all..aren't we all. The interwebs just seem to attract the super good looking and rich.

[musemaj11]

Its funny how young women prefer to be with older, 'more mature', and 'more established' guys much to the dismay of younger men who regardless accept the fact. Yet when those same young women become old and unwanted, they suddenly get angry because men are overlooking them for the younger and more beautiful women.

 

When I was 19, the hot 21-25 year old girls won't even take a glance at me.

 

Get over your selfishness ladies. You cant expect to have things served to you on a silver platter all your lives. Both males and females have their own peak and low points. Thats only fair.

[alphamale]

Get over your selfishness ladies. You cant expect to have things served to you on a silver platter all your lives. Both males and females have their own peak and low points. Thats only fair.

indeed musemaj11, indeed

[ThsAmericanLife]

It's not about playing week or even being needed. It is about showing a man that you respect him and value him in your life instead of treating him as some disposable thing you take or leave. Deep down most women want to able to lean on their man anyway no matter how independent they are. I always hear women say they are tired of having to be the strong one. The way to get a man to be strong sometimes is not reminding us how useless and disposable you think we are.

 

Woggle, this has nothing to do with gender. Anyone I'd even have as a roommate, much less life partner, need to exhibit some ability to show consideration for mutual needs and respect.

 

'Deep down' most people need to be able to rely on others in order to be considered emotionally healthy. Ones who can't tend to have problems maintaining any kind of relationships... friendship or otherwise.

 

Some people expect extreme emotional/financial dependency from their partner in order to feel 'secure'. This is not healthy behavior no matter which gender it originates from.

 

Eleanor Roosevelt had a saying that I'm often reminded of... "Noone can make you feel inferior without your consent'.

 

If there are times when women leave you with the impression that you are 'disposable' because they don't need your money... I suspect that is due to your own insecurities. Not anything they are projecting.

[ThsAmericanLife]

When I was 19, the hot 21-25 year old girls won't even take a glance at me.

 

I suspect that had more to do with the fact you probably acted like a jerk... and nothing to do with your age.

Edited October 22, 2011 by ThsAmericanLife

[musemaj11]

I suspect that had more to do with the fact you probably acted like a jerk... and nothing to do with your age.

Yeah because as a matter of fact, in reality all around us 25 year old women are eager to date fresh out of high school 18-19 year old boys.

 

Who are you trying to kid?

 

Come on ladies, be logical for once. In our early youth we men accepted the fact that younger women wanted older guys and not us because older guys were more mature and had more money to spend on them. So why is it so hard for you older ladies to accept that just like younger women prefer the older guys due to the aforementioned reasons, older, mature and established men on the other hand want the younger, more beautiful women and not you?

Edited October 22, 2011 by musemaj11

[silvermercy]

As I approach 30 and being a late bloomer, the only thing that's stopping ME from dating an 18 year old or a 25 year old man is his maturity levels and/or the risk that he will probably want to sow his wild oats in the next few years while I would want to settle down. Trust me, if it wasn't for that single risk, I'd almost exclusively be dating 18-25 year olds now and even marry one after a while! (Sometimes I drool at them when they appear on a film or a TV show -and even in imaginary situations like in Japanese animes! See?). LOL

But maybe it's just me... *sigh* Younger men who want to settle down for sure, call me!

Edited October 22, 2011 by silvermercy

[silvermercy]

Yeah because as a matter of fact, in reality all around us 25 year old women are eager to date fresh out of high school 18-19 year old boys.

 

Who are you trying to kid?

 

Come on ladies, be logical for once. In our early youth we men accepted the fact that younger women wanted older guys and not us because older guys were more mature and had more money to spend on them. So why is it so hard for you older ladies to accept that just like younger women prefer the older guys due to the aforementioned reasons, older, mature and established men on the other hand want the younger, more beautiful women and not you?

 

If it's any consolation, those younger beautiful women will be stuck with a grandpa substitute as they grow old. lol And who's to say that grandpa won't substitute his wife with an even younger wife one day? (Of course, if he's REALLY mature as those women thought he was, he won't do that).

 

The way things they are (thankfully not universally though) is that men today still have the upper hand as they grow older. And that's where the great unfairness begins. Because even if those men didn't date successfully in their 20s they can still date successfully beyond them. In other words, it WAS a problem for them for some time, but a temporary one. On the contrary women only won momentarily in their 20s. Then they end up as the ones with the huge problem if they find themselves single again (or in grandpa situations) lol.

 

I personally never went for much older men at any age (I've always liked them my age or younger), so that's why this unfairness strikes me even more. And I suppose I will also blame my fellow womenfolk who preferred the older men when they were really young, hence continuing the age-old tradition.

 

That's why I hope an ideal beautiful balance will be created one day, where both genders won't prefer to date anyone outside a certain age range (say 5 years or so)... Then it will be fair for both genders at all ages.

[thatone]

i don't see it as unfair at all.

 

men are doing the same things they've always done. you get out of high school, go get your education, get your career started, then find a suitable partner after.

 

just because women are emulating the same pattern doesn't mean it will work out the same for them. the two sexes are different, after all....

[silvermercy]

Different yes, but still equal (I'd like to believe).

 

I personally find it unfair, because me fellow women are still the victims of ageism even in their late 20s, regardless if it was the result of their own doing or not.

[ThsAmericanLife]

i don't see it as unfair at all.

 

men are doing the same things they've always done. you get out of high school, go get your education, get your career started, then find a suitable partner after.

 

just because women are emulating the same pattern doesn't mean it will work out the same for them. the two sexes are different, after all....

 

I disagree. I think that it is working out quite well for women who have emulated the education/career-first mode in their 20's and 30's.

 

In this economy, it is men's jobs who have suffered more. For those men who treated their partners well during the good times, they have a partner to rely on. For those who offered nothing but a paycheck or had problems with their partners being established in her own right... they are doubly hurting.

 

Which is why the guys here are complaining. It is only in the fantasy world that is online dating that these dudes with age fetishes get a shot at someone much younger... and then, they'll have to settle for the ones who don't have much if anything going on except her looks. The guys that need to troll for the young'ins aren't getting the pick of the litter either (after one factors in things OTHER than looks, that is). That's ok. Whatever works for them.

 

Technology has made it possible for women to postpone pregnancy well into their late 30's and even into their 40's. Then there is always adoption. The world is full of children who need good homes.

 

No need for women to freak out at any age and believe this ageist crap.

 

Should mention that not everyone is interested in starting a family either. It's not like the ONLY reason people pair up is to have kids. So a woman's age would be irrelevant in that case.

 

If all women can 'hope' for is some guy who wants us to be a live-in maid, nanny, and cook... who then dumps us for a younger model after we've helped build his career...

 

I'd say the better option is go for the career first and set the bar high, girlfriends...

Edited October 22, 2011 by ThsAmericanLife