The Official First OWs Club - new Members Welcome

[Barrsitter]

Heartinlove....awesome wisdom!!!! Truly!!!! I am going to print that one out and put it in my purse.

 

You are so right. Men only respect a strong woman who sets her boundaries and appears like she doesn't give a rat's ass what he's up to.

That's my stance now and I'm sticking to it. And if Mr. Oh-Golly-I-can't-decide-what-to-do ever turns up asking for my attention, I'll listen and say..."Um...I'll get back to you when I decide whether your presence in my life makes any sense for me. Bye-bye, now". (evil laughter under her breath. Fade to dark).

 

[whichwayisup]

So, it's been about 2 months since MM moved out of his house. He has wanted to take it slow while he gets his head together. He's going to IC, therapist sounds pretty good. Now I have only seen him two times in 4 months total yet we talk and email. So, he is going through a roller coaster, and taking me with him, of emotions. Firstly, he was excited and happy. Then next few weeks, could hear him struggling. Then he started getting stronger, and we saw each other. Now, he says he's in a dark place. Last night we spoke and he says he cannot take care of me, give me what I want, ... Cuz he's so messed up and grieving over the end of his marriage. I'm starting to feel that devastated feeling. Uh oh.

 

We will be speaking tomorrow and we have already been talking about how he cannot see me now as he deals with all his stuff. I asked and he said he's not planning to reconcile and they have meeting with mediator coming up. He sounds very unhappy, which I guess is natural, but it also feels like the ending.

 

He says he left the marriage because of me. So I'm confused. Just last week, he was saying he could see us getting engaged, talking about me meeting his parents, ... But throughout the evening saying he needed some space.

 

Just wonder if this is a temporary, natural behavioral dynamic or if the BS just continues? My two confidants say dump him. This has been all very challenging as we have been in this mess for 18 months. I feel physically and mentally unwell. I have told him so.

 

Guess I'm just throwing it out there for some insight, helpful words. I do love him and I know he loves me. I don't want to be reckless at this point. But I guess I need to surrender again, and just get out of his way.

 

Tomorrow could be a heart breaking and angry conversation. C'mon girlfriends, help me find peace.

 

Sad, if I were you, I'd tell him very, and I mean very, limited contact for 3 months. The A is over, his marriage is over. He needs to grieve the loss of his marriage, the life he once knew and be on his own to gain strength and his footing again. He left for you, wrong reason to leave a marriage..But anyway, what's done is done.. This time and space will allow him to figure out what he wants, work on himself and for you it'll get you out of the A dynamic and live YOUR life instead of being sucked into his. Right now he has nothing to give, you two cannot grow as a couple UNTIL he is ready to go forward with you. Now isn't that time..

 

In 3 months, really talk and be honest about what you two want, try to date and do it the right way or would it be better to go separate ways.. All I know is, from what you've said, staying with him IN his life is doing too much damage to you. He's broken and can't fix himself with you in his life at the moment.

 

Trust that what you two share will ride out this time and space apart.

 

FOcus on you and your life, friends and rebuilding your self esteem and feeling good again.

[heartinlove]

Thank you, your words are true. I feel it when you say to make the empowering choice. I know that is right. I also like your advice to speak lovingly and share what I envision. Thank you. I am typically outspoken and at times very harsh with him. Although he says my presence in his life has helped him to see the light. But you are right, to be loving is the right way. I have yelled at him enough. And by leaving in an empowering way, I can feel that I would be proud of myself. I will reread your words before the conversation. Thank you!

 

Im glad what I said resonated with you. How did it go? Keep us posted.

[sad puppy]

Heart & Which (and thank you for your great words of advice too!) - well, we did speak yesterday for a few hours on the phone. I asked him questions I needed answers to: do you have an attorney - yes, why is your wife still snooping thru your cell records - he went out and got a new phone, ... just random questions. Then I asked if he was trying to reconcile or what? He admitted that he has thought of "how could the marriage work out" but after he thinks about it, he knows it cannot. I jumped on him, but that did not really settle in. More on that later. He admitted he is unhealthy and once again, cannot give me what I need now and that he knows it will frustrate me, he doesn't want to hurt me, but we can't see each other, blah, blah, blah.

 

I gave him my take on the really, unhealthy, selfish behavior of his wife - he works as an attorney all week in the city, yet, she expects him to help her clean the house on the weekend - she works part time in a no-brainer job. She hasn't kissed him on the lips for 2 years, has refused sex for 8 years. It was her idea to tell the 10 & 14 yr old that "daddy has a girlfriend and that's why mommy is so upset" (that one makes my head explode). She is disrespectful of his parents and their culture. I could go on and on. I told him he needed to get healthy for himself, because the kids need one healthy parent. Anyway, we ended up then talking about our intense connection, signs from the Universe, how we love each other, ...

 

And then something interesting happened this morning.

 

I just woke up and wanted to put my thoughts onto paper. I started writing an email, beginning with a few paragraphs of how I believe we were meant to meet, when we met. That I believed our meeting was due to us attracting one anther into our lives - we connect on so many levels, are sexually attracted to each other, ... It was quite well-written and poetic. But then, I told him how he seems to be choosing not to move forward, but to stay rooted in his misery. I told him that I needed to honor myself, and that I choose happiness. That I desire to be happy and healthy and that I know what type of beautiful, whole, happy relationship I want. I told him that in his choosing to stay miserable in a 20 year marriage speaks to something deeply wrong with him but now, I see the same in me, although my bad choices lasted 1.5 years. I told him that I see that and now the time has come for me to move away to find peace and happiness in my life.

 

I told him how much I liked about myself: my generosity, my kind and loving heart, my accomplishments, ... but that as I want to focus on getting physically healthy and mentally healthy, I am willing to begin the big changes in my life to achieve these goals. I believe and hope they will go hand in hand.

 

I told him I am surrendering my sad thoughts and experience of this relationship, that I feel oddly optimistic about my future. Because I know who I am and I know what I want and I don't want to wait for a man that doesn't love me and is not devoted to me. I told him he chooses to remain in manure up to his neck and that is his choice but it is not mine. I choose happiness. I described what a healthy relationship is to me and that I do not see that in my future with him.

 

Truly, it was quite the long and involved email and it was off the charts good, I felt strong and clear. Suddenly, it just dawned on me, extremely clear, that here is a guy that has been quite unhappy in a marriage for the best part of 20 years. It took him 14 months after meeting me to get the whole divorce conversation going. They both agreed they did not have the proper foundation to get married. He always referred to her as his "burden". Yet, he pursued MC, gave her plenty of time to prove that she valued the marriage and nothing changed. Then out popped the affair confession, disaster ensued, with his ultimately moving out within two weeks and now he's been living on his own for two months. Yet, his emotions are all over the place and now, as of last week or so, he has sunk into a "dark place". Well, after he said that yes, he has thought of how to work the marriage out (but then thinks and realizess it won't work), this morning I just "got it". He is unhealthy, he does choose to wallow in misery, he is looking backwards, ... I DO NOT!!!!!

 

And here's the deal - there was no future offer of well, we shall see, and maybe after you work it all out, and maybe we can be together. NO WAY!

 

That crap wasn't even in my head. I was just like, I choose happiness, this isn't it, this isn't healthy for me, I am walking away. Period.

 

I am stunned, and hoping this is a real shift in my thinking. I pray that it is. I just feel like if he wants to stay in misery and pine away for a selfish B**** and I am not good enough for him to recognize it, now, after all this, and he doesn't want to come flying into my life with enthusiasm, then guess what? I am done.

 

I read the greatest quote today - it said "You can spend the minutes, hours, days, weeks, or even months over-analyzing a situation: trying to put the pieces together, justifying what could've, would've happened - or you can just leave the pieces on the floor and move the F*** on."

 

BRILLIANT! I love this, and we all need to remind ourselves of this - to get out of the logic brain, trying to remember every shred of coversation and trying to figure it all out, endlessly and relentlessly.

 

So, there you have it!! Plain and simple. I now choose happiness. I choose me. I am finally getting it.

[whichwayisup]

Sad, you are AWESOME! I love how you had that moment of clarity and everything has fallen into place for you.

 

You're gonna be fine...Thanks for a great update!

[twinsmom]

Whoa! I am so impressed with you! I wish I had had the resolve to do the same. Good luck to you!

[Barrsitter]

SadPuppy quoted:

 

"You can spend the minutes, hours, days, weeks, or even months over-analyzing a situation: trying to put the pieces together, justifying what could've, would've happened - or you can just leave the pieces on the floor and move the F*** on."

 

Love this quote. SP - your email was cathartic for you.

 

I wrote a long email like yours to my xMM before I set him adrift, but never sent it. Nothing I said to him over the past 2.5 years made a damn bit of difference, so I deleted my email and just moved the F#### on.

 

Nothing beats silence to make your point.

 

Glad you have turned the corner and are seeing things the way they are. Good for you SP. You're living in the here and now and in reality. Well done.

[Barrsitter]

twinsmom...you do have the resolve. you just don't want to exercise it.

[heartinlove]

Hi Sad Puppy. Great for you! It sounds like you came to a really healthy epiphany of understanding who you are and what you deserve to have. I am curious, did you send him the email or was it written just for you? If he came back truly free and ready would you be open or are you done?

 

I think finding that space inside you and taking a stand of what you will have is very powerful and I commend you for it. Interestingly, I think that is the only space to hold if there is any future for the two of you. If not, and you are truly complete, that will propel you forward in a healthy way. I find focusing on forgiveness and at the same time taking a strong stand at what truly is right for you is the way to move out of the pain of affairs. Good for you!

[sad puppy]

Hi there. Yes, I did send that email. My problem, and I am dwelling today, is that I really cannot get a clear answer from him as to what is happening. All he has said to me is that he is "grieving the marriage" and I understand that. But two weeks ago, we saw each other (had a good time), then he had some sort of call with her, a few days later, that seemed to put him in a "dark place" as he calls it, and then two days later I receive an email from him about needing space, not going to make promises, ...

 

Then we had our calls last week and it was me bitching and asking questions and him being vague, and not giving an inch (he's a lawyer, very frustrating).

 

I have tried to reach him both at his office and his cell today but no call back. Needless to say, this is driving me insane right now.

 

I think at this point I want a clear answer from him as to whether he actually is trying to reconcile or what. I have pushed him extremely hard, and I am not apologizing for that. However, I know in my mind I should consider this done for good. Forever. But, I just feel that this is a strange and sad way for this to end, since he did make the decision to move out, and begin the mediation process (if that is still on). It seems after all this time and effort and agony for both of us, that to just end with him saying "he needs space", blah, blah, blah is hurtful on his part and not taking into consideration that I may need to have some clarity.

 

Is that asking too much?

 

In the back of my mind, I will admit that I feel discarded if this indeed is his way of ending this relationship. And pissed too. But I have a restless mind, and am now having a day of torturing myself, the last few days I've been feeling better than today.

 

Logically and intellectually, I know I should move on, that I have dodged a guy with issues, and problems and a ton of stuff taht will not be resolved for a very long time, even if he is to divorce. But, I just feel like I need some clarity from HIM.

 

Just got a text that he will call later. Now, of course I am so scattered. If anyone reads this soon, send me some advice. I guess I'll just ask for clarity. And try and shut up, open ended questions, ...

[whichwayisup]

is that I really cannot get a clear answer from him as to what is happening.

 

Honestly, I don't think HE knows either. You know things are a mess. You know there's confusion and a lot of pain.

 

Sad, you need to back off and allow him space, stop pushing, stop asking questions and leave things be .. For a while. If you don't he will shut down completely and run for the hills, disappear for long time.. The more you push him the more he's going to clam up.

 

Don't push him, don't offer him advice, or share what you feel he should or shouldn't be doing.

 

Re-read old posts and replies from the past bunch of days..

 

Focus on you, your life, work, friends and family.

[whichwayisup]

When he calls you back, be calm. Let him talk and listen to what he says, pay attention to what he doesn't say. Pay attention to his mood, how he says things, if he's sad or mad, tired, fed up..

 

It honestly sounds like he has no idea WTF is going to happen next so to push him and ask him what is going to happen is just frustrating all around for you both.

 

I hope this makes sense.

 

Take a deep breath and keep emotions calm.. When you talk to him, think first, don't just go at him with emotion and a ton of questions.

[sad puppy]

Thanks, W, I'm my own worst enemy, this I am aware of. Thank you for the insight as to he may not know what's he doing. Yes, my previous posts have been good and strong, today I have faltered. I'm so worn out at this point. Confused and hurt, been a long road and I'm trying to get off.

 

I really appreciate your insight and tough words! Thank you!!

[heartinlove]

HI Sad Puppy. I thought the point of the email or communication was to say everything you need to say, say why you love him, say why you are looking forward to a life together and then leave it alone.

 

Meaning don't ask for answers or where he is. He has no clue right now. The point of the communication was for you to leave it on a loving note and to basically say contact me if you are ever ready to really 100% choose to explore a relationship with me and then thats it.

 

The point is your not going to know his choice. You need to then move on from that space and live your life and if it is meant to be, he will show up ready. Anything less, don't let him back. Anything other than that you're going to lose him or he's going to leave you, and that will be infinitely more painful. Dont push, don't prod. Say what you need to say and you leave with yourself intact. Im trying to spare you that pain. You can still do that.

[sad puppy]

Ok, just got off the phone and, Heart & W, thank you for redirecting me and helping me reframe my thoughts here. I told him I had been restudying my Buddhist teachings and working on patience and wisdom, and acknowledged to him I have a restless and impatient heart. I apologized if I had been harsh, and was trying to understand his process but that I was angry and fearful that he was tossing me aside and keeping me in the dark. He said he needs to keep me in the dark as he doesn't want to hurt me, as he cannot take care of me now while he's trying to figure it all out. (That is exactly what you all have also been telling me).

 

He said "I see our path as golden" and that we are connected in so many ways. Wow. That felt very good. I am hopeful but wary, same place I've been since he moved out.

 

He said he's working on why he is so resistant to change (he's in IC), and why he is afraid to change although he knows he has a better life ahead. He said when he sees his wife, it just reinforces why it would never work and why it has been very bad for a long time.

 

I asked if he foresees any problems in the divorce mediation and he said no. As I am trying to get physically healthy - eating better, exercising, he said that I am taking one path to move ahead and his path to get better is to understand his mental health, challenges with what's going on.

 

So, my heart feels a bit better and I know this is just part of the road we are on. I thank you for helping me when I was faltering and for answering so quickly today, before I spoke to him. My God, how nice to have smart, supportive girlfiends out there. XXOO

[Barrsitter]

Sad....you are only happy because you got you talked to your xMM today. A week from now when you haven't heard from him, you will be crying again.

 

You need to break your habit of this guy and stop all contact and stop enabling this guy to be confused. You need to stop sucking up to him. Leave him alone. Let the guy figure himself out. Trust me...you will survive not talking to this guy. Who wants a screwed up guy who can't figure our who the hell is????

 

I have really learned something from my ex-affair. The next guy I hook up with, will know who he is, will celebrate by life, will be all about me and us and won't be all screwed up from a former relationship. He will have his crap together or he won't have me. That has to be your attitude.

 

Some man on here said that men don't respect women who pander to them. Right on, brother.

 

Hockey Fan said it best....

 

men do not like or want long drawn out emails, he probably hasn't even read it all, just skimmed it. belittling his wife is not the approach to take, you have no idea what really went on in their marriage. he has made his choice and it isn't you. he doesn't owe you anything, you went into the affair knowing he was married. he is pushing away from you, yet you refuse to see it and instead keep demanding things from him. let him go and grieve the end of the affair. he knows how to contact you should he want to reach you. just let him go. what more can you say that you already haven't said at least once. focus on healing you and stop trying to save him. save yourself.

[Barrsitter]

Also Sad - you told your xMM that you were afraid of losing him.

 

Buddha says...

 

“The whole secret of existence is to have no fear”.

[despicableME]

belittling his wife is not the approach to take, you have no idea what really went on in their marriage.

 

I have to agree with this. Athough my AP never overtly took shots at my wife, she did refer to her as "a bit bland." I made it a point to tell her NEVER to talk about my wife whenever we were together, or she her husband. JESUS... the sick and twisted ***** we do during these things is just amazing... here I am laying in bed with this woman behind my wife's back, and I'm miffed about her putting my wife down like that... WTF!

[sad puppy]

men do not like or want long drawn out emails, he probably hasn't even read it all, just skimmed it. belittling his wife is not the approach to take, you have no idea what really went on in their marriage. he has made his choice and it isn't you. he doesn't owe you anything, you went into the affair knowing he was married. he is pushing away from you, yet you refuse to see it and instead keep demanding things from him. let him go and grieve the end of the affair. he knows how to contact you should he want to reach you. just let him go. what more can you say that you already haven't said at least once. focus on healing you and stop trying to save him. save yourself.

 

Well, I disagree. As he has told his sister about us, spent the better part of a month meeting and telling close friends about what has happened, that he has moved out, and about our relationship. I have heard the feedback from one of his close friends who happens to be a therapist, and it's very encouraging. He has told his therapist he loves me. Bottom line, I do know quite enough about what went on in the marriage as do now his friends. And everyone is shocked that he stayed in a marriage without any intimacy for 8 years. In the words of his sister, a doctor, "that's weird". She told him she's happy she will "get her brother back" and she felt his "spirit was crushed" in the marriage. That, to me, says a lot.

[heartinlove]

Ok, just got off the phone and, Heart & W, thank you for redirecting me and helping me reframe my thoughts here. I told him I had been restudying my Buddhist teachings and working on patience and wisdom, and acknowledged to him I have a restless and impatient heart. I apologized if I had been harsh, and was trying to understand his process but that I was angry and fearful that he was tossing me aside and keeping me in the dark. He said he needs to keep me in the dark as he doesn't want to hurt me, as he cannot take care of me now while he's trying to figure it all out. (That is exactly what you all have also been telling me).

 

He said "I see our path as golden" and that we are connected in so many ways. Wow. That felt very good. I am hopeful but wary, same place I've been since he moved out.

 

He said he's working on why he is so resistant to change (he's in IC), and why he is afraid to change although he knows he has a better life ahead. He said when he sees his wife, it just reinforces why it would never work and why it has been very bad for a long time.

 

I asked if he foresees any problems in the divorce mediation and he said no. As I am trying to get physically healthy - eating better, exercising, he said that I am taking one path to move ahead and his path to get better is to understand his mental health, challenges with what's going on.

 

So, my heart feels a bit better and I know this is just part of the road we are on. I thank you for helping me when I was faltering and for answering so quickly today, before I spoke to him. My God, how nice to have smart, supportive girlfiends out there. XXOO

 

HI Sad Puppy. How are you doing today? I understand how comforting that must have been to hear that. Know though that even though he most likely believes that to be true on some level, he is also saying what he knows you need to hear to be comforted. So, if you can step back and really take care of yourself and not be worn down by his process that will be the best for you. That way if he really does give a hundred percent to a relationship with you, you will be in a strong self loving space. Dont get worn down by his confusion. Dont be so available for his confusion either. Live your life. He'll respect you more and you'll respect you more

[Barrsitter]

Reading SP's account of her ups and down with her xMM who is not truly available...just makes me glad I'm not in that space anymore. I stopped all contact with my xMM 4 weeks ago and hardly even think about him anymore. He hasn't contacted me either.

 

There is nothing more powerful than silence. I can walk with my head up now, in my own power, knowing that I am in control of myself once again. There is no better feeling in my view.

 

I hope SP can get to this place where she can truly let go of this guy and stop analysing and persuading and inquiring into his life. It's a fruitless exercise and sorry SP, but telling you "our path is golden" is nice but doesn't mean anything. Actions speak.

 

My xMM has not contacted me for 4 weeks. I accept that. I am not angry or hurt. There is no judgment. There is just that. He's still with his wife and I have moved on. And it feels superb.

[heartinlove]

Reading SP's account of her ups and down with her xMM who is not truly available...just makes me glad I'm not in that space anymore. I stopped all contact with my xMM 4 weeks ago and hardly even think about him anymore. He hasn't contacted me either.

 

There is nothing more powerful than silence. I can walk with my head up now, in my own power, knowing that I am in control of myself once again. There is no better feeling in my view.

 

I hope SP can get to this place where she can truly let go of this guy and stop analysing and persuading and inquiring into his life. It's a fruitless exercise and sorry SP, but telling you "our path is golden" is nice but doesn't mean anything. Actions speak.

 

My xMM has not contacted me for 4 weeks. I accept that. I am not angry or hurt. There is no judgment. There is just that. He's still with his wife and I have moved on. And it feels superb.

 

Hi Barsitter. Thats amazing that you hardly even think about him anymore. How did you get there so fast? Im in the same amount of NC as you are. Mine contacted me though(we didn't talk, he left message) I got that initial rush of love, connection, happy to see he contacted me, happy to know Im loved, but I still have to follow my own advice and keep moving forward, living my life, and knowing that staying attached to an unavailable man no matter how much love there is equals pain. Oh, I long for simpler days ahead.

[sad puppy]

HI Sad Puppy. How are you doing today? I understand how comforting that must have been to hear that. Know though that even though he most likely believes that to be true on some level, he is also saying what he knows you need to hear to be comforted. So, if you can step back and really take care of yourself and not be worn down by his process that will be the best for you. That way if he really does give a hundred percent to a relationship with you, you will be in a strong self loving space. Dont get worn down by his confusion. Dont be so available for his confusion either. Live your life. He'll respect you more and you'll respect you more

 

Yes, you are absolutely correct on this. And I do feel and know that I must move on, out of this space, it may be temporary or it may be forever. In reading one of my buddhist books yesterday it was talking about "let it go", which implies something very different than "let it be". I am choosing to "let it be" now, and tomorrow, and the next day.

 

Your words of thoughtful wisdom are very helpful to me.

 

Yes, the process has been wearing me down, for sure. Weird thing he said the other day was about his "roller coaster", I'm like, are you kidding me, I have been on a roller coaster for a year and a half. Sorta funny. Or not.

 

I have always posted and felt that I am hopeful but wary. In a bit of a strange way, I feel the hopefulness quotient dialing down a bit as I know, even if we are to be together, that it will be a long time before he's strong and healthy after this divorce deal.

[sad puppy]

Reading SP's account of her ups and down with her xMM who is not truly available...just makes me glad I'm not in that space anymore. I stopped all contact with my xMM 4 weeks ago and hardly even think about him anymore. He hasn't contacted me either.

 

There is nothing more powerful than silence. I can walk with my head up now, in my own power, knowing that I am in control of myself once again. There is no better feeling in my view.

 

I hope SP can get to this place where she can truly let go of this guy and stop analysing and persuading and inquiring into his life. It's a fruitless exercise and sorry SP, but telling you "our path is golden" is nice but doesn't mean anything. Actions speak.

 

My xMM has not contacted me for 4 weeks. I accept that. I am not angry or hurt. There is no judgment. There is just that. He's still with his wife and I have moved on. And it feels superb.

 

 

Well, the actions of moving out, going to IC, and having the first appt. scheduled with a divorce mediator are pretty concrete. However, I totally agree about getting out of the persuading and analyzing mode. Annoying! Works for me great at my job, personal life, not so much.

 

Everyday, I feel a bit stronger about moving forward without him in my life, as I am well aware that he has a long road ahead of him, and that is not MY process, MY fight, or MY journey.

 

You sound to be doing a great job moving onward, that is so helpful to the rest of us walking our own paths. Isn't that why we are all on this thread, in our club? To acknowledge that we want to be strong, move forward, and release the relationship junk? Yes, that is our spirit here, and I am feeling that beautiful feeling of moving on, releasing, surrendering the pushing, pulling, turning into a pretzel type of mind bending games I often play with myself, haha.

 

I am just feeling the "let it be" profoundness coupled with "setting the backpack down" idea - really feeling this power and relief. STOP PUSHING, one of you said - I am there! I really appreciate everyone's great strong words here, so helpful!

 

Enjoy 11-11-11 ~ Once in a century ~ do something empowering for yourself today ~ do it!

[Barrsitter]

Heartinlove...you asked how I got to not thinking about my xMM so fast.

 

Simple. I got very busy living my life. I now taking painting classes am preparing to paint for a fundraiser coming up in December. I am taking a course at my yoga studio on designing one's life. I'm busy building my future and making emotional space for joy and for me.

 

I snapped out the idiotic stupor I was in about this guy a couple of weeks ago. Plus I am totally into Eckhart Tolle - The Power of Now. Digest that stuff and you realize pretty quick that ruminating about the past or hoping for the future are both ludicrous as neither the past nor the future actually exist. There is only now. And in the now, there is only me and not xMM. So that's how I got my groove back. If he turns up someday, I'll deal with that at the time. For right now...he doesn't exist.

Edited November 12, 2011 by Barrsitter