Why women love bastards, rakes and players?

[fortyninethousand322]

Is there any way a man can speak what he feels about modern day dating without women calling it whining?

 

This is what I notice on here. Man can't get a date or has girl problems he's a whiny baby whose entitlement and self pity are causing him problems and it's his own fault. If a woman comes on here with the same problems: it's because men are shallow, or non-committal or whatever and it's men's fault.

[alphamale]

They don't treat women with genuine respect. They may be good with the sweet talk and romancing but they are insincere.

some women are ingrained to think they are second-class citizens therefore they naturally are attracted to men who will dominate them and treat them bad. this is especially true with women under 30

[Metis]

This is what I notice on here. Man can't get a date or has girl problems he's a whiny baby whose entitlement and self pity are causing him problems and it's his own fault. If a woman comes on here with the same problems: it's because men are shallow, or non-committal or whatever and it's men's fault.

 

While I will grant you that people on Internet message boards can be dismissive, let's take a cold, rational approach to this particular thread. It's one thing for a man to complain of "girl problems" and to try to find a constructive answer; it's another to accuse the entire female sex of "emotional immaturity" just because women are not lining up to sleep with him for his condo. The only evidence of "immaturity" I see here is certain particular individuals' inability to see themselves as the common denominator in their lack of romantic success and instead rush to condemn the opposite sex for failing to give them what they believe is their due. That's entitlement, it's not accurate, and it's not constructive. What do we call complaining that's based on entitlement, an inaccurate representation of reality and an aversion to finding constructive solutions? You tell me.

 

Several posts here, most notably Sanman's, exemplify certain men not actually knowing what they want from women, except that whatever women are doing, it's wrong. Take a look at his post: on the one hand, pity that women no longer just look for a good "provider" and in the next paragraph, a jab at women for giving preference to, uhm, good providers; plus gratuitous insinuations that women shouldn't be educated, or have good jobs, or that women who are educated and have good jobs waste their educations. I get what the problem is: there is a certain group of men who don't want to be just wallets with legs, but at the same time, are scared that women who have educations and careers aren't dependent enough on them to stick around on whatever terms are preferable to the guy. The predictable result, of course, is rank woman-bashing.

 

I don't know about you, but given all that, it sure seems like whining to me. However, if you don't want to use the word "whining", I suppose we don't have to.

 

Additionally, I'd point out that commiseration generally runs along gender lines. Are you saying that if a woman comes here with problems, men call their own sex shallow and place all the blame on men? No? Then why do you bemoan the fact that women don't rush to blame their own gender?

[Woggle]

Nobody is asking them to blame their own gender but if none of this applies to them then don't get so offended and defensive. Ask any man that tries to date these days and they will tell this is what they run into quite often.

 

Sometimes I really think that some women on here want loveshack to be all female or at least only allow men to express views that they approve of.

[fortyninethousand322]

While I will grant you that people on Internet message boards can be dismissive, let's take a cold, rational approach to this particular thread. It's one thing for a man to complain of "girl problems" and to try to find a constructive answer; it's another to accuse the entire female sex of "emotional immaturity" just because women are not lining up to sleep with him for his condo. The only evidence of "immaturity" I see here is certain particular individuals' inability to see themselves as the common denominator in their lack of romantic success and instead rush to condemn the opposite sex for failing to give them what they believe is their due. That's entitlement, it's not accurate, and it's not constructive. What do we call complaining that's based on entitlement, an inaccurate representation of reality and an aversion to finding constructive solutions? You tell me.

 

The OP is transgendered and has lived outwardly as both a man and as a woman. And, since OP is more scientifically oriented, I have always found his/her threads more thoughtful and not just dramatic overreactions. So I think your characterization to be a little off the mark.

 

 

 

I don't know about you, but given all that, it sure seems like whining to me. However, if you don't want to use the word "whining", I suppose we don't have to.

 

Additionally, I'd point out that commiseration generally runs along gender lines. Are you saying that if a woman comes here with problems, men call their own sex shallow and place all the blame on men? No? Then why do you bemoan the fact that women don't rush to blame their own gender?

 

Well I think both sides should be more sympathetic to each other. I really don't think someone's dating problems is always the fault of one gender or the other. Sometimes crap just happens and we should be supportive not automatically start finger pointing and playing the blame game.

[Mrlonelyone]

@Metis

 

I did not read your long thing about nice guy and jerk because:

 

1.) I never mentioned nice guys.

 

2.) Anyone who has been here long enough knows by now that while I have some experience with women, I am not that into them at all. To put it in perspective I have kissed men I met in a seedy bar and made intense eye contact with... while to even start to look at a woman that way I have to get to know her very well and think that their good at heart.

 

3.) I have had two women sexually in my life even given the above. Sadly that's more experience than some men here have had. Which is why I started this thread for young immature men dealing with young immature women.

 

4.) In my original post I said this applies especially to young women under or near 25. Most people that age aren't nearly as emotionally mature as they think they are.

 

To prove my point just look at how many threads we get on an average week where ladies come in here and talk about how men they have given it up too have used and abused them. Then they go back to those same men. Then they get involved with another scumbag, and another scumbag. They always tend to be on the younger side mostly under 25 rarely more than 30.

 

What some guys here dread is having to be Mr Cleanup and loose their virginity at 35 to a woman who has been used abused and discarded by other men.

 

Taking stock of my whole trajectory, I realize until the last couple of years, and adjusting for my non-standard gender identity, I meet the definition of a rakish person. Most of my exploits have been with men. Those two that have been with women resulted in a child I have nothing to do with and can't even though I want to. The other was with one of my best friends GF's. All my transgender friends swear I tend to flirt with their men too. I guess I really am a bastard at heart myself. LOL.

Edited October 24, 2011 by Mrlonelyone
Just realized I meet the definition of a rake myself.

[Metis]

@Metis

 

I did not read your long thing about nice guy and jerk because:

 

1.) I never mentioned nice guys.

 

Unfortunately, this is where a discussion degenerates into semantics. Fine, you didn't say "nice guys". Nevertheless, by juxtaposing a "scumbag" with a "man who has his own house/condo/apartment, a good job/career, and is good and respectful", you narrowed down all of men (okay, men under 25) to strictly two personality types. Replace "nice guy" and "jerk" with the words you chose, and my statement still stands.

 

4.) In my original post I said this applies especially to young women under or near 25. Most people that age aren't nearly as emotionally mature as they think they are.

 

You consider entering into a relationship with a man because he has a job and condo a sign of emotional maturity? Because I don't.

 

To prove my point just look at how many threads we get on an average week where ladies come in here and talk about how men they have given it up too have used and abused them. Then they go back to those same men. Then they get involved with another scumbag, and another scumbag. They always tend to be on the younger side mostly under 25 rarely more than 30.

 

That's because ladies who have good relationships have no reason to start threads asking for advice and opinions on what to do with men in their lives being so darned wonderful. To take this thread as a microcosm of what is happening with relationships generally is kind of like going to a hospital, surveying the patients and concluding that everyone outside the hospital is sick. People here generally start threads about dilemmas. A large proportion of relationship dilemmas, for both sexes, stem from mistreatment. To look at this forum and conclude that women under 25 are overwhelmingly dating drug dealers, thugs and hitmen or, as one of the other posters suggested, that Ivy League education leads women straight to the ghetto is misguided to say the least.

 

Also, re. going back to the same men: there are many reasons to go back to one's abuser. Fear of retaliation is one, being socialized to preserve a relationship at any cost is another. Emotional maturity has little, if anything, to do with it.

 

What some guys here dread is having to be Mr Cleanup and loose their virginity at 35 to a woman who has been used abused and discarded by other men.

Does it work the other way around? Is losing her virginity to man who has been used, abused and discarded by other women something that a woman should dread, or does a male victim deserve compassion and second chances with someone "pure"? Because I sense clean-up is something that is specifically reserved for women in a lot of people's minds.

 

And for the record -- if someone is a virgin at 35, that person is virtually guaranteed to be emotionally immature himself.

 

Look, everyone decides for him or herself what their standards are. If a 35-year-old virgin only wants another virgin who has never kissed, that's their business. But to see someone who was in an abusive relationship and got dumped as "tainted", that's just way excessive. Don't you think?

[aj22one]

 

And for the record -- if someone is a virgin at 35, that person is virtually guaranteed to be emotionally immature himself.

 

 

It's easy to make that statement when you're not in that person's shoes, don't ya think?

[Woggle]

Being in an abusive relationship is not a sign that a woman is tainted but there are some women who go for one jerk after the other and are pretty much incapable of being in a healthy relationship. The minute things start going well they feel the need to stir it all up to create some passion and excitement.

 

Why should a man who has everything going for him subject himself to this kind of drama?

[AHardDaysNight]

Why should someone's virginity be a judge of whether or not he is emotionally mature?

 

13 year olds can, and are, having sex. Does that suddenly make them more mature than me, a 28 year old MAN?

 

If you say "yes", you are clinically insane.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Right on, Metis!

[joystickd]

Nice guys and jerks oh the memories for me. I remember having this run though my mind a while back. My very first experience was a horrible one. I just took the first thing that offered me some sex and fell in love with her. She treated me like poop on the bottom of a shoe and I know now that was my fault. I learned a few things out of it once I stopped whining about it.

 

1. Women should stop saying I want a nice guy. Unless you be specific there will be men who will be mad because they were a nice guy and you dumped them.

 

2. Some nice guys are big manipulators. They are only nice because they benefit from it. This explains why some feel a sense of entitlement.

 

3. Nice guys accept bad behavior from women. "Jerks" just dont put up with it and check the women.

 

Its funny now when I look back at my experience because a guy that worked with me was going through the same thing i did but he got treated a lot worse. Now the women that gave me crap now has sex with the woman that gave him crap and he hangs around them like he is one of the girls and yes the one that dumped me still bangs the jerk too.

 

For a long time I wanted to know why but now i just dont give a f**k. I just decided to be direct and honest about everything. Its a numbers game out here if one dont like you there is someone that will.

 

These "nice guys" just need to get off their behind and man up like I did and just go out here and just say hey you single. Just be a man!

[oldguy]

That's because ladies who have good relationships have no reason to start threads asking for advice and opinions on what to do with men in their lives being so darned wonderful. To take this thread as a microcosm of what is happening with relationships generally is kind of like going to a hospital, surveying the patients and concluding that everyone outside the hospital is sick. People here generally start threads about dilemmas.

Yes, This is NOT a realistic representation of life. And your hospital analogy was spot on.

 

Also, re. going back to the same men: there are many reasons to go back to one's abuser. Fear of retaliation is one, being socialized to preserve a relationship at any cost is another. Emotional maturity has little, if anything, to do with it.

I think it has more to do with the theory that, 'we live what we learn', because that's where our social/emotion comfort is because we learn to live & react in a particular world.

 

And for the record -- if someone is a virgin at 35, that person is virtually guaranteed to be emotionally immature himself.

I don't believe immature is correct but I think it would be cause to wonder why, just as it would be cause to wonder what might have lead someone to promiscuity.

[fortyninethousand322]

 

And for the record -- if someone is a virgin at 35, that person is virtually guaranteed to be emotionally immature himself.

 

 

Wow, what a ridiculous statement. But, it encapsulates the attitude of the general population (including at LS). Virginity = immaturity/insert negative quality (but only if you're a guy, female virgins are a-ok)...

[Mrlonelyone]

@metis

 

Your responses are predicated on the premise that this is a nice guy vs jerk thread.

 

Those are threads about why women don't like nice guys.

This is a thread about why women love bastards rakes and players. Why such people with a Y chromosome can get laid and married while those who are not.

 

 

Just to draw a bright line under the contrast.

 

Why is someone like Alexandra Billings a Male to Female transsexual married with children? When much more typical people with a Y chromosome here cannot, it seems, even get a date?

 

I'm asking why women, and for that matter men, choose partners who are bastardly, playerlike, and rakish. Sort of like "why men love bitches".

 

Don't make this about something that it isn't, or preach to me like someone who's never had sex. I have proven universal appeal to all genders.

[alphamale]

I'm asking why women, and for that matter men, choose partners who are bastardly, playerlike, and rakish. Sort of like "why men love bitches".

because those sort of partners create drama and make life interesting and spontaneous

[xxoo]

Are you saying Alexandra Billings is an example of a BRorP?

 

I'm asking why women, and for that matter men, choose partners who are bastardly, playerlike, and rakish. Sort of like "why men love bitches".

 

Why do women want bad guys?

Why do men want women who want bad guys?

 

These questions are two sides of the same coin. There are plenty of women who do not want BR&P. Maybe they are not as desirable to men for some reason.

 

Alpha probably has it right. Both the men and the women are attracted to the drama and excitement. More stable potential partners are too dull to be attractive.

[Mrlonelyone]

@xxoo

 

Well yeah she is. That and like all transwomen she can be a bitch too from what I know . I met her once.

 

She is publicly known to have done some street work in her past. You know participated in the unofficial economy that many transgender people resort to because we can't find work. One has to be a player to get through that world. One has to be physically attractive and fit to survive it for long.

 

That said. Much more typical, non transgender people with a Y chromosome, who aren't physically unattractive at all can't get a date? That's a greater mystery to me than dark matter.

 

@Alphamale

 

That may very well be all it is in some cases. But then some women pick men who have no redeeming qualities what so ever.

 

Their life is exciting; because criminals and cops occasionally shoot at them.

 

Their life is interesting; because their BF is being profiled in a prison doccumentary.

Edited October 24, 2011 by Mrlonelyone

[Monm82]

I think the phrase ''Nice guy'' is becoming a dirty word. Maybe it should be ''decent guy''.

[dispatch3d]

There's no ego-trip in rejecting a low-life or loser. There's definitely an ego trip involved when girls reject engineers, lawyers, etc. like they are too good for them. I think they just like the self-esteem boost.

[dispatch3d]

I read 1/3 of the replies. This thread is too extreme and is basically just women hating. Bah!

[Metis]

Two observations I want to add:

 

One, as someone who has actually graduated from an Ivy League school, I've known LOTS of women with Ivy League educations, not just one. The most notable characteristic of girls at my school was that just like guys, they were obsessed with their academic careers, and in constant fear of not getting into grad school/getting their PhD. Libraries and study halls were packed on Friday and Saturday nights. Some mischief went on from time to time, but mostly, everyone, even frat boys, were too afraid of failing the next exam and getting the pink slip. People sometimes get the idea that an Ivy League diploma is something you get as long as your parents pay for it. In reality, people whose parents pay like clock work get booted if they fail, which is fairly easy, considering the fact that on the bell curve, you are graded against a bunch of baby geniuses, not a random group of people like in high school. Dating was secondary, and besides, with all these academic pressures, the community was quite insular. Dating a drug dealer? Well, I suppose it's theoretically possible for a student to blow a fuse and self-destruct, but as a rule, people in those environments have a pretty clear idea of what their priorities should be.

 

Two, I only know of the criminal world from studying criminal law and procedure, but my impression is that the life of a criminal is dull as dirt. Much of it is spent in nondescript cars and windowless basements, and revolves around people who are so stupid, they have trouble getting complete sentences out. It's not like the movies AT ALL. Watching paint dry is more exciting than being around those people.

[Woggle]

That is the reality of the criminal world but it doesn't stop people from chasing the fantasy. I will be honest and say that even I idolized the Five Families growing up in NY until they start going to jail and getting killed which showed me where that life eventually led.

 

I think the woman described in an earlier post is not that way because of education but because she is spoiled. She doesn't have to earn anything because her parents provide it all. She crashes her car in a DUI and they just provide another one and they provide her an expensive apartmant that she doesn't have to work for. Is it any surprise that she won't grow up?

[FrustratedStandards]

You are overanalyzing.

 

It's as simple as pheromones.

 

A**holes are usually alpha-males, and alpha-males give off a particular pheromone scent that is incredibly attractive to women.

 

That's really all there is to it.

 

The lesser dominant, more shy, quiet guys don't have this pheromone. Thus attract less women.

[Mme. Chaucer]

I'm confused about how this thread has taken a turn towards the characteristics of some transgendered people. MrLonely, you're taking your own thread way off topic.