Mme. Chaucer Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 There's no ego-trip in rejecting a low-life or loser. There's definitely an ego trip involved when girls reject engineers, lawyers, etc. like they are too good for them. I think they just like the self-esteem boost. Really? You believe that women date creepy men just because they get such a grand boost to their egos by rejecting accomplished men? Haha. And the thrill of rejecting all those doctors, lawyers, engineers and movie stars is worth the wretched boredom of spending time with the low-life losers? Nope. Back to the drawing board with you now. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Mrlonelyone Posted October 25, 2011 Author Share Posted October 25, 2011 I'm confused about how this thread has taken a turn towards the characteristics of some transgendered people. MrLonely, you're taking your own thread way off topic. She was a example of a player. I mentioned Mrs. Billings as a sort of example. While not a "man" in any psychosocial sense, she is a person with a Y chromosome, and a checkered past, a players past. She is a person who has had more success with relationships with a woman than quite a few people here. Married for over a decade. That is the most poignant example of a player reforming I can think of. When talking about bastards I brought up drug dealers and hardcore criminals who invariably have girlfriends (willing to go to jail for them). I also gave examples of rakish men such as Ted Kennedy. Given that I wonder how anyone could say this thread is about woman hating? Other than mentioning that young immature women gravitate to such men I haven't mentioned women. Link to post Share on other sites
Richard Friedman Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 http://www.tampabay.com/features/humaninterest/article1109362.ece Case in point? Link to post Share on other sites
Richard Friedman Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Sometimes people from privileged backgrounds like to go slumming and think life on the wrong side of the tracks is exciting and romantic when in reality it is a daily hell for those who live it. I don't see too many working class women who had to bust their ass to better themselves going for these kinds of men. . Yea this is it. The Bonnie and Clyde fantasy. The feeling of danger and excitement which a regular, law abiding guy can't provide. Basically it's what takes them furthest from the (fortunate)monotony of middle-class life. A "good guy" can't give them that no matter how suave and confident he is. Link to post Share on other sites
coffeeaddict Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Truth is most everyone admire "badasses" these days, it's just the culture we grew up in, at least here in the West. It's an action hero culture, most 20 or 30 somethings didn't grow up admiring nice guys in the popular entertainment of the day, we grew up admiring tough guys, guys who blasted stormtroopers and belted Nazis into airplane propellers and punched multi-tentacled aliens prior to saying, "Welcome to Earth." Even if you grew up in the 70s it was "The Fonz." Doesn't make sense to analyze dating and relationships in the abstract, as though it's separate and apart from the rest of our culture. As if what we hold on a pedestal in one area isn't going to affect another area. In the popular media we grew up with, dominance is associated with nobility and heroism. So kids grow up believing dominance is how you prove your worth to others, and it doesn't really matter how it's achieved. That's why if you have red hair, complete strangers yell "Ginger!" and things like that. That's all about provoking another person and getting a reaction out of them, being dominant over someone if only for a moment. I observed some highschool kids in a car shouting at an overweight middle-aged lady on a bike a few weeks ago. It was a low point as far as things I've ever witnessed in my life. Why would they do that? Dominance. The one kid wanted to his buddies to respect him, to think he was cool, and he had to stick his head out his window and yell some trash at a poor lady riding her bike to do it. I remember a guy committed suicide in San Francisco a few months back, and a lot of the kids were yelling "Jump!" Jump!" The list goes on and on, and it's true on every level of society now, really. Just the way people treat each other in general, the whole mentality is all about dominance. Ethics are arbitrary. Here's where I'm going with all this, if might makes right is our value system (and it is), why should dating and relationships be immune to that? The things we talk about that women should value in men, honorable behavior, honesty, so on and so forth, those things really aren't valued in society as a whole, not by either gender. They're not valued in popular entertainment. They're not valued in Government but that's a whole other topic. Being a "dickhead" is in, that's what I'm trying to say here. It's fashionable today to be a dickhead. Sheen's old character on Two and a Half Men is a good example. I think everyone male and female buys what the media sells, girls are just more socially impressionable at younger ages. Link to post Share on other sites
alphamale Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 You are overanalyzing. It's as simple as pheromones. A**holes are usually alpha-males, and alpha-males give off a particular pheromone scent that is incredibly attractive to women. That's really all there is to it. The lesser dominant, more shy, quiet guys don't have this pheromone. Thus attract less women. i would say that there is some truth to that...but i use good quality cologne which works the same Link to post Share on other sites
oldguy Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 i would say that there is some truth to that...but i use good quality cologne which works the same Oh crap! All those years I was an alpha arshole I could have just been using a good quality cologne & honing my skills as a nice guy!? But then again I wouldn't have met my first wife... oh crap, I could have avoided her too!?! Link to post Share on other sites
stillafool Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Have I missed anything? How many more reasons are their why soooo many women seem to choose bastardly dirt bags over decent hardworking respectful men? I don't think all of the young men who are successful with young women are bastardly dirt bags who are drug dealers. Some are hardworking, professional men or entrepreneurs who are goodlooking with great personalities. What young woman wouldn't be attracted to that? These men are in high demand and therefore are hard go get. A lot of women view these men as a challenge because not only do these men create sexual desire in women but he can also support a family financially. Not all of these guys are cheaters or bad boys they are just in high demand for marriage and women chase them. Much like young men chase beautiful young women. If a beautiful young woman is attracted to this goodlooking, successful young man, what is the crime? Link to post Share on other sites
oldguy Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 It's not like it's just wolves slaying sheep here. Sometimes it's just the wolves running in packs. Why do 'nice' guys think all woman are nice girls being led to the slaughter? Link to post Share on other sites
AHardDaysNight Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 http://www.tampabay.com/features/humaninterest/article1109362.ece Case in point? Not really. The girls were young, and the boy was young. I thought we were talking about men, and women? Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Yea this is it. The Bonnie and Clyde fantasy. The feeling of danger and excitement which a regular, law abiding guy can't provide. Basically it's what takes them furthest from the (fortunate)monotony of middle-class life. A "good guy" can't give them that no matter how suave and confident he is. I's funny how people on the wrong side of the tracks want desperately to escape it while people who have everything want to live on the wrong side. If you ask me they should trade their privileged existence with somebody else if they hate it that much. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Mrlonelyone Posted October 25, 2011 Author Share Posted October 25, 2011 (edited) @Richard Friedman, AHardDaysNight. Yes His example ( http://www.tampabay.com/features/humaninterest/article1109362.ece) is exactly the kind of behavior I am talking about. Young immature women do things like that. Emotional maturity can come late to otherwise bright seemingly together women. Such women will choose to ruin their lives for dirtbags like Josh well into their 20's and some into their 30's. @Stillafool I never said ALL. I said "So many." The qualifiers "so many" and "emotionally immature" are where I acknowledged that this is not the case for all women. Most young people are emotionally immature until they reach about 25. They have the ability to rationalize like an adult but not the experience to see things for what they are even through the fog of "love hormones". @FrustratedStandards and Alphamale I can attack this from two directions. I can vouch for being attracted to the bodily scents of an otherwise clean but attractive male. Yet as a transgender woman on anti-androgens and estrogen women who are not neccesarily lesbian still give me signals of attraction. I'm not interested in them like that, don't know em well enough, but I know when I'm being flirted with. Explain that in terms of pheromones? Could it be that the testo blockers have let me keep a full and impressive head of hair? @coffeeaddict I really liked your sociological analysis of it. I think that plays a bigger role in mate selection, dating, than many people here realize or want to admit. In a sense it is a choice of one person over all others, however, in real life many women and to a much lesser extent men are influenced by social status when it comes to choosing a date, mate, and partner for life. Like Coffee addict said some of the problem is what our society's youth culture values. Namely it values all the wrong things, signs of false class and dominance: Like two guys I know "G.E.D." and "J.D." G.E.D. a drug dealer is valued because as I described he has the trappings of higher social status. He has expensive and/or flashy things (Tricked out cheap car with added extras, think car from training day painted a funky flashy color). He wears expensive clothes and jewlery (Nike track suit with 300 basketball shoes, gold chain). He perhaps has a pre paid mastercard from his local currency exchange and good credit with the auto title loan place. He lives a dangerous life and may seem as Coffeeaddict put it dominant to young immature women who know what they know from movies(Often part of a gang or deals with them on a regular basis). He has had a steady stream of girlfriends and has a number of children most of which he does not see or take care of in any way. While J.D. who will prosecute the above when he is caught is not as valued by emotionally immature women. Yet his clothes ($1000+ taylor made Italian suit and $500 shoes), Car (Lexus, Jaguar, Rolls Royce), has an AmEx gold card, and job (putting seemingly dominant drug dealers in jail for big bucks), bespeak of actual dominance and real social class-status. He can't find a woman because, as he complains, many that come onto him turn out to be damaged goods, out for his money and stability, or both. Some young women will choose GED over JD (and not even look at my other friend professor Phil) until they have been burned, and damaged by a number of men like GED. Edited October 25, 2011 by Mrlonelyone Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 While J.D. who will prosecute the above when he is caught is not as valued by emotionally immature women. Yet his clothes ($1000+ taylor made Italian suit and $500 shoes), Car (Lexus, Jaguar, Rolls Royce), has an AmEx gold card, and job (putting seemingly dominant drug dealers in jail for big bucks), bespeak of actual dominance and real social class-status. He can't find a woman because, as he complains, many that come onto him turn out to be damaged goods, out for his money and stability, or both. Some young women will choose GED over JD (and not even look at my other friend professor Phil) until they have been burned, and damaged by a number of men like GED. I know plenty of guys like JD (some decent, some not). None of them have ANY problem finding a woman. Why would JD want an emotionally immature woman? Some of the dating "disqualifiers" are advantages! The cream rises to the top. Link to post Share on other sites
serial muse Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 I know plenty of guys like JD (some decent, some not). None of them have ANY problem finding a woman. Me too. This thread puzzles me, because I don't see these "facts" going on in real life nearly as often as some people seem to think; it's like someone was reading TV tropes and decided it's true to life or something. But...I know lots of decent, successful, average-ish guys who are happily linked up with decent, stable women. I suspect that people on here are just watching too much Lifetime and it's getting them riled up. Link to post Share on other sites
SteveC80 Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Women just love good looking guys,contrary to popular belief women are probably even more into looks then Men,women just like looking at shiny and pretty objects So its not like women seek these traits out but if you're good looking u can get away with having bad personality traits Link to post Share on other sites
Author Mrlonelyone Posted October 25, 2011 Author Share Posted October 25, 2011 @xxoo and serial muse Those guys get plenty of emotionally mature women who now know better. The problem such men often have, and they will tell you this, is women who were formerly involved with bastards, rakes, and players will come to them. They then have to weed through a sea of previously abused women to find a real gem:, sometimes raped, physically or emotionally abused, or unmarried (as in never married to anyone) single mothers of multiple children by several deadbeat dads. Women who want "prince charming" to fix them and provide for them now that their looks are fading. I'm not learning this from lifetime. I see law students on campus deal with this every week. Women who want them essentially for their future earning potential, yet sort of want to keep them on the back burner while they get mixed up with men who aren't nearly as educated as themselves and are often up to no good. As for my friend phil, Dr. PhD often can't get the time of day at all since he utterly confuses people. They keep asking him to write them a prescription. Link to post Share on other sites
serial muse Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 @xxoo and serial muse Those guys get plenty of emotionally mature women who now know better. The problem such men often have, and they will tell you this, is women who were formerly involved with bastards, rakes, and players will come to them. They then have to weed through a sea of previously abused women to find a real gem:, sometimes raped, physically or emotionally abused, or unmarried (as in never married to anyone) single mothers of multiple children by several deadbeat dads. Women who want "prince charming" to fix them and provide for them now that their looks are fading. I'm not learning this from lifetime. I see law students on campus deal with this every week. Women who want them essentially for their future earning potential, yet sort of want to keep them on the back burner while they get mixed up with men who aren't nearly as educated as themselves and are often up to no good. As for my friend phil, Dr. PhD often can't get the time of day at all since he utterly confuses people. They keep asking him to write them a prescription. Sorry, not buying it. Nor am I buying this: (Ladies if you are not this way then great. We know not all of you are that way but you are in the minority.) You say that the women who go for the stable guys are recovering from dating players. As I said in my previous post, no, these are stable women. In fact, some of them are dating men who were cheated on. Does that make those guys recovering from dating players and rakes? Then where does the gender theory go??? Nowhere. Fast. As it happens, my anecdotal evidence is every bit as reliable as yours. See my .sig line. So, not convinced. Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 We all need to weed through the common to find a gem. It is easy for most of us to find a date, but a challenge for all of us to find a gem. What makes JD's situation extraordinary? If you are saying that poor dating choices when young disqualify a NOW emotionally mature woman as a gem, then I don't know what to say about that. I'm sure we all engaged in some measure of poor dating choices in our early years. Some of us overcome with no lasting consequences, and some do not. Link to post Share on other sites
blondike Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Since this thread is about women my age (18) and why we like rakes and bastards, I have my own definition. Okay, rap artists are just cool and Jersey Shore men are hella funny. They're famous and wealthy; I don't think it works. It's like asking why some men dream about being married to Pamela Anderson, though the career she does is questionable at best. It's the same thing: they're attractive, they're rich and famous. I would never date a rap star or Jersey shore man but it's not the out of the box to think why someone would. I mean, someone dated that serial killer Sam Peterson while he was in jail!! For killing his wife. I mean, come on. Now, a regular drug dealer? I guess, it has a thrill to it. Dangerous bad boy men have always been sexy to women, just look at all the romance books that talk about The Rake, The Dangerous Villain, who falls in love with just a hapless, young innocent thing. Maybe women like the moral high ground in their relationships? Some women love the theatrics and the drama. Just having a nice picket fence and a family can be boring. I have never seen a romance book about a man who was boring but everything a woman could dream for. I mean he's great but he's boring. What's exciting about him? I would rather have a boring guy but I do know women who think like this. Finally, the nerdy men are annoying. Nerdy men think they know everything there is to know about the world, and they think they are so smart and they can't just see why women aren't throwing themselves at them. Then, they have zero fashion sense, they dress like crap, they never play sports and challenge other men to duels, which is exciting to women. I mean really nerdy men are not primal at all. They only talk about the animal instincts they want- Oh, I like big boobs, but forget about all the primal instincts women have- Ohhh, my guys are fighting to mate with me. Which one has the better muscles? Which one is more athletic? Which one can take care of me the most? Like, back in the day, men had to fight to impress their potential mates, but nerdy men just stick their heads in the air, but then claim they like boobs because it's primal. Link to post Share on other sites
fortyninethousand322 Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Finally, the nerdy men are annoying. Nerdy men think they know everything there is to know about the world, and they think they are so smart and they can't just see why women aren't throwing themselves at them. Then, they have zero fashion sense, they dress like crap, they never play sports and challenge other men to duels, which is exciting to women. I mean really nerdy men are not primal at all. They only talk about the animal instincts they want- Oh, I like big boobs, but forget about all the primal instincts women have- Ohhh, my guys are fighting to mate with me. Which one has the better muscles? Which one is more athletic? Which one can take care of me the most? Like, back in the day, men had to fight to impress their potential mates, but nerdy men just stick their heads in the air, but then claim they like boobs because it's primal. Another grossly exaggerated stereotype. I'm a nerdy guy (I love to talk about foreign policy, economics, etc.) but I also love sports (playing them, watching them) and I work out. And I could care less about big boobs (actually big boobs are a turn off to me). There goes your little "nerd boy" theory... Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Who the hell challenges other men to duels? I am laughing right now imagining me going up to another man and asking him for a duel. I better get some dueling pistols if I want to be attractive. Honestly I have been in plenty of fights in my life but I will never ever fight over a woman. The other man can have her if that is what she likes. Link to post Share on other sites
fortyninethousand322 Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Who the hell challenges other men to duels? I am laughing right now imagining me going up to another man and asking him for a duel. I better get some dueling pistols if I want to be attractive. Honestly I have been in plenty of fights in my life but I will never ever fight over a woman. The other man can have her if that is what she likes. That poster admitted to being 18. Perhaps the younger people these days are bringing back dueling. Remember everything old eventually becomes new again. Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 That poster admitted to being 18. Perhaps the younger people these days are bringing back dueling. Remember everything old eventually becomes new again. If that is the case can I challenge to a duel sir? I must defend my honor. Link to post Share on other sites
PJKino Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Who the hell challenges other men to duels? I am laughing right now imagining me going up to another man and asking him for a duel. I better get some dueling pistols if I want to be attractive. Honestly I have been in plenty of fights in my life but I will never ever fight over a woman. The other man can have her if that is what she likes. :laugh: i thought the same thing..i pictured going up to another dude in the street with a sword asking him to joust What the hell goes through a womens head sometimes? Link to post Share on other sites
Author Mrlonelyone Posted October 25, 2011 Author Share Posted October 25, 2011 xxoo Yes to many quality men they want a simmilar quality woman. That means no serious baggage. No children of other men to support who have no father in their lives until him. Equal education to himself. Why should a JD settle down for someone with an AS or just high school? A good career that is at least on track. Yet, as others have pointed out, our youth culture encourages behaviors which will limit one's long term potentials and choices. Women pass the same judgements on men who say...live at home no matter the detailed circumstances. Link to post Share on other sites
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