Exposure: good for the goose...

[findingnemo]

And it just hit me. The reasons for the exposure as outlined by FindingNemo are different for a BS or an OW.

 

The BS (if following the MB idea about exposure) is trying to reconcile a broken marriage.

 

The OW is trying to force a decision. She isn't trying to reconcile an EMA; exposure would be counter-productive to a "strong affair" (if we want to consider that an affair IS a relationship, and as such, there can be healthy, unhealthy, strong, or weak ones).

 

Bottom line, most OW exposures are done, IMHO, with a unspoken desire for the marriage to fail and for the MM to stay with the OW by default, so to speak. Not exactly the best way, for me, to gain a life partner.

 

There are a few I have seen where OW expose because the MM will not stop contacting her and they want the contact to stop; in some cases like that, I can see where exposure can be an effective thing.

 

But there is definitely a danger that the exposure backfires on the OW. Many times, society shuns the OW. Heck, as a divorcee, I had married friends who didn't want me around their husbands in social situations, and I wasn't an OW. If they had known that I had been a WS, then they probably would have snubbed me on the street. My own sister's H was cheated on by his first wife, and they both are very bitter about affairs and AP; I don't think she would have been highly supportive of me had my OW-ness come out. It would have broken my parent's hearts, I believe. If my son had found it, it could have broken the strong bond that we share, and changed his entire outlook on women, on relationships, on marriage, on trust, on life. I was definitely as invested in keeping the EMA a secret as MM was.

 

 

Lucky, an AP IMO has the right to wish for the M to end. My thinking is simple. The M is already broken and the MP is lying to both AP and BS. If an AP believes that the MP is honest and for that reason their R is real, then at some point won't the AP question why the MP has two "real" bonds? IME, the stronger the R gets between the two in an A, the more the AP starts yearning for validation such as acknowledgement of the existence of the R by friends and family. Except in the case of someone who is a mistress by choice ( no idea what an OM would be called in this case), any AP in love who feels loyal to the MP would begin to question how loyal to their love the MP is.

 

People may not want to admit this but APs are human with human needs and emotions. Jealousy, possessiveness, a need to wake up every morning with the person they love, wanting to have a family, wanting to declare to all and sundry that they are in love and are in turn loved by a wonderful man/woman, etc. Of course an AP would want the M to end and have the MP to him or herself. So I don't really see a problem with an AP wanting to expose inrder for the M to end. The problem of course is that it is not a guaranteed outcome.

 

About reputation and such. Maybe it's the society I'm from. Here an AP will suffer the consequences of being one from some in the community. But usually, if the AP exposes and the MP openly states that his/her M is history, then most of the friends and family of the AP will accept this. What they will not accept is the MP saying how unsuitable the BS and the M are but staying in the M regardless. There will always be gossips and haters. Imagine people gossiping about the BS implying that somehow they are at fault for the WS straying. This is daft but it exists. But there will also always be those that love you especially when they perceive that you are being truthful, AP or not.

Edited October 25, 2011 by findingnemo
Typos

[Elizabeth Southerns]

Very few employers wish to have deceitful people working for them and would fire or lay them off at the first chance. I would. And I am an employer who cares if time I pay for was used to promote this type of behavior.

 

Labour law doesn't apply in your country? You can fire people at will, without due process and proper representation? Lay them off not on an arbitrary basis instead of LIFO? I thought workers' rights sucked in the Yew Kay, but I'm sure glad I don't live in a country where those kinds of abuses are allowed!

[findingnemo]

The bolded resonates for me. The more people we told about the A, the more people supported us. I have no doubt that that social support played a critical role in my H being able to leave his xBW, knowing it wasn't "fog" or whatever she may have tried to gaslight him into believing, because so many other trusted friends and family could confirm what he was feeling and experiencing.

 

Now here is an example of exposure working in favour of the AP.

 

A support system is important for everybody. The support system one gains from being open about one's life is good even in cases where the MP chooses the BS. An AP would then have help getting over the loss of MP.

[skylarblue]

I am surprised that a marital advice site would suggest exposure other than to the most intimate/trusted of the BS friend/family and only in order to gain personal support needed to go through the ordeal. I think it is a bad idea to use it to try to shame the WS or in thought that it will end the A or help reconciliation. In my case, BW did tell several people including his exW and their daughter (which I think is out-of-line). It didn’t help. It made him angry and he simply turned it around to seem like he was innocent and she was nuts. As the OW, I would only expose the A to my closest only in need of advice/support. I’d never tell anyone if I knew I would be shamed upon.

[Lucky_One]

Lucky, an AP IMO has the right to wish for the M to end.

 

Of course. I wished for my MM's marriage to end.

 

People may not want to admit this but APs are human with human needs and emotions.

 

Of course they are. I felt every emotion under the sun while in a EMA.

 

So I don't really see a problem with an AP wanting to expose inrder for the M to end. The problem of course is that it is not a guaranteed outcome.

 

No. It is not a guaranteed outcome. A couple of things could happen. MM and BS decide that OW is a wicked seductress bunny boiler, and they stay together; EMA is over, NC is in place, and OW's heart is broken. MM and BS decide to stay married; EMA is over, NC is in place, OW's heart is broken - and then NC is broken, and the affair rekindles. BS kicks MM out of the house and files for divorce; MM may or may not stay with OW, and OW was not his first choice of landing pad. MM admits the truth to BS, moves out, divorces; MM may or may not stay with OW.

 

If OW was really where the MM wanted to be, in general, he would file for divorce and he would keep his AP under wraps until he could start "dating" publicly. This would keep a buttload of animosity out of a divorce, and it can make it much much much much easier for an AP to assimilate into the dMM's life post-divorce. A lot of kids tend to hate the "home wrecking whore" who busted up Mom and Dad's marriage. (This is NOT a slur - it is a real thing that happens in many situations.)

 

After the devastation of a D-Day, sometimes MMs don't even want to associate with the OW after the dust settles. There is a history of too much pain and drama associated with the R, and he wants a clean slate. Not a happy outcome for the OW there, either.

 

About reputation and such. Maybe it's the society I'm from. Here an AP will suffer the consequences of being one from some in the community. But usually, if the AP exposes and the MP openly states that his/her M is history, then most of the friends and family of the AP will accept this. What they will not accept is the MP saying how unsuitable the BS and the M are but staying in the M regardless. There will always be gossips and haters. Imagine people gossiping about the BS implying that somehow they are at fault for the WS straying. This is daft but it exists. But there will also always be those that love you especially when they perceive that you are being truthful, AP or not.

 

I guess I just haven't seen that happen too often. Most times, I see MMs beg to stay in the marital home.

 

A D-Day, even if done purposefully by the AP, just doesn't seem to hold much good for a strong future public relationship in the Rs I have seen online or have known about IRL. OWs seem to catch the short end of the stick consistently.

[jwi71]

Lucky, an AP IMO has the right to wish for the M to end.

 

Of course you and all AP's do - well, ok maybe not all but many.

Unfortunately, the WS seems to disagree as they stubbornly remain M. Even after multiple D-days in some cases.

What does that say?

 

My thinking is simple. The M is already broken and the MP is lying to both AP and BS.

 

Your thinking is wrong.

The M isn't broken, he is.

Most WS simply want it all...the "stable" M (or the appearance of), being a good dad and having all the financial benefits he currently enjoys.

Weird part is...I have all that and I got D.

 

 

If an AP believes that the MP is honest and for that reason their R is real, then at some point won't the AP question why the MP has two "real" bonds?

 

The honesty of a MM is never in question - he isn't by definition.

However, I do believe that AP's mistake bonds for love. And the bond is rarely healthy - witness this forum and others like it. The bond is more band-aid or salve which, in the end, allows underlying issues to fester and worsen. This is the fantasy part...that the A cures anything.

 

Do YOU feel cured FN?

Or is this A slowly sucking the life out of you?

 

IME, the stronger the R gets between the two in an A, the more the AP starts yearning for validation such as acknowledgement of the existence of the R by friends and family. Except in the case of someone who is a mistress by choice ( no idea what an OM would be called in this case), any AP in love who feels loyal to the MP would begin to question how loyal to their love the MP is.

 

Of course the MM doesn't have sex with the W.

They don't go on vacation together either.

And those smiling holiday photos they don't take - an act. For the kids.

 

And why would you choose such an arrangement...having an R which cannot be celebrated? And why does HIS opinion matter more than yours? I mean, why can't you introduce him to your parents? Friends? My point is, while YOU want it out in the open he does not. Ergo, his want trumps yours. I bet, if you examine things, that's a well established pattern.

 

Why do you choose that?

 

People may not want to admit this but APs are human with human needs and emotions. Jealousy, possessiveness, a need to wake up every morning with the person they love, wanting to have a family, wanting to declare to all and sundry that they are in love and are in turn loved by a wonderful man/woman, etc. Of course an AP would want the M to end and have the MP to him or herself. So I don't really see a problem with an AP wanting to expose inrder for the M to end. The problem of course is that it is not a guaranteed outcome.

 

How would you prefer to "have" a man:

One that chooses you of his own free will and desire to do so?

Or one that chooses you because his W filed for D and kicked him out?

 

Which do you have?

And what do HIS actions say?

 

About reputation and such. Maybe it's the society I'm from. Here an AP will suffer the consequences of being one from some in the community. But usually, if the AP exposes and the MP openly states that his/her M is history, then most of the friends and family of the AP will accept this. What they will not accept is the MP saying how unsuitable the BS and the M are but staying in the M regardless.

 

And given this, HE STILL STAYS.

 

You are being told - and in not so subtle terms - where you stand.

You, my dear, get the red ribbon.

 

(Personally, I'd want the blue ribbon)

[pureinheart]

In your opinion....

 

Is it not vindictive/coercion to tell the world about a perceived wrong with ultimate goal being to shame them into whatever mold another person wants? To me it's sick.

[pureinheart]

Labour law doesn't apply in your country? You can fire people at will, without due process and proper representation? Lay them off not on an arbitrary basis instead of LIFO? I thought workers' rights sucked in the Yew Kay, but I'm sure glad I don't live in a country where those kinds of abuses are allowed!

 

Yes, some very strict laws exsist because of people/employers firing and laying off at will.

 

Let's say a person/employer has a legit claim to fire an individual, that particular (or any) cannot communicate info about his/her former employee should there be another party asking for info. The only info a previous employer can give is that yes that individual previously worked for them and the length of employment (I'm priddy sure that's it, I know the info IS extremely limited).

 

If a person goes to another persons job with info that the employee previously signed statements that they would not violate the various terms for employment, then the employer could fire the employee on those grounds...but they have to have undeniable proof. It can still be taken to the labor board though and an investigation will be conducted.

 

The employee, whether fired or not can go to the cop shop and file charges against the person that tried or succeeded in getting them fired. This is easy to prove so they are usually found guilty.

 

Like you said though, most employers could care less, it's about productivity even if the affair is being conducted on the job.

[pureinheart]

Very few employers wish to have deceitful people working for them and would fire or lay them off at the first chance. I would. And I am an employer who cares if time I pay for was used to promote this type of behavior.

 

I guess you need to fire just about every person that ever works for you, and in fact you would have to fire yourself! EVERY person, with the exception of Jesus Christ has been/is deceitful.

[MissBee]

For some reason "qoute" function is not working for me.

 

MissBee, it's true that an AP wouldn't be expected to consider exposure while happy with the relationship. But at some point, while the A is going on, an AP may feel frustrated and wonder how to end this. It is suggested to tell the MP it's over and to go into NC. While NC is extremely difficult IME, I wonder whether if in addition, exposure would help ensure the end of the A. For one thing, the MP would be busy trying to sort themselves out and would themselves go into strict NC as we see after d-days.

 

We all know how hard it is for both parties to resist a resumption of the A. Usually it happens slowly and as they like to think, innocently. "We need to talk and get closure. Let's meet for coffee." something along those lines. When a MP decides that they can't lie anymore and suddenly exposes him or herself, the A is effectively over (that is if the MP exposed so that he/she could try to sort out the M). Can this not be true if an AP decides to end it by i) telling the MP and ii) exposing? Although I don't like to compare it to a drug addiction, if the AP's goal is to bring this to an end, wouldn't exposure be an effective way to do this?

 

 

I think it would be an unnecessarily problematic route to do that but can it work for some person out there? Yes. My A ended without me having to expose anything...NC was difficult, but it was doable and I did it and I don't think I needed to get into the realm of further drama to do so...which is what exposure may bring. I mean, there are so many ways exposure can go wrong, that I am not sure why any OW/OM would do this voluntarily. Also, who are you exposing it to? The BS? I am not quite understanding who exactly the AP is going to expose it to.

 

So yea technically it would be a "sure way" (although not necessarily) for the A to end but to me...an A is not a trap. It's not a gang you joined and have to die to get out of it....you can get out and yes NC is difficult in all breakups, but it seems extreme that the only way one can leave an affair is to broadcast it and have other people be in charge of you not seeing each other anymore.

 

I think of it like being on a diet and because you think that you're not strong enough to resist cake you have your mouth surgically stapled. It just seems very....extreme and seems as if one is saying they lack any self control so much so that the only sure way to stop their A is if they tell everyone and then everyone else will shame them out of resuming it. To be honest, I feel like if one has enough balls to "expose it" and essentially betray the person one claims to love, then wouldn't one have as much resolve to just go NC and be done? Because I assume you'd have to be pretty upset to go around exposing it, you don't just calmly end things and then politely send a mass email or text saying you've been having an affair...I imagine some strong emotions have to accompany that. I feel like if you're that mad you could just channel your anger into never speaking to them again...never mind coffee! I cannot fathom how one would muster enough courage to expose an A and withstand the backlash, yet not have enough courage for NC....

 

NC is the easier route in my opinion than for me to possibly tarnish my name and deal with any dramatic fall out or muster up the courage to converse with a BS or others about an A I willfully participated in....those who seem to do the latter, are those who are angry, and the BS who exposes is angry too...so exposure and some type of anger seem to go hand in hand and for an AP if you're that angry, I think you should be able to be angry enough to leave them alone. If after leaving them alone they continue to contact you, then yes, you should threaten to tell the BS or actually tell the BS...but as the first resort to end it, no.

Edited October 25, 2011 by MissBee

[anne1707]

I guess you need to fire just about every person that ever works for you, and in fact you would have to fire yourself! EVERY person, with the exception of Jesus Christ has been/is deceitful.

 

I think there are some people on here who would argue that Jesus/religion is the biggest lie of all. Please don't be so quick to judge what is right and wrong. Who lies and who does not.

[donnamaybe]

Bull, A lot of companies have no fraternizing policies. And the threat of lawsuit is if one is in a superior position. Damn good reason to fire someone.

 

And how can someone be prosecuted for sharing TRUE information? I see an awful lot of declarations of "fact" regarding law when it is clear.there is no legal knowledge whatsoever.

[donnamaybe]

Is it not vindictive/coercion to tell the world about a perceived wrong with ultimate goal being to shame them into whatever mold another person wants? To me it's sick.

 

No, they are free to remain in the "mold" of a sneaky liar - just elsewhere.

[mzdolphin]

I agree with Owl.

 

Another result? The MAP may choose the OW/OM.

 

But the affair is OVER no matter what informed choices for the future the three parties make.

 

So yes, I think it can definitely help the AP in either ending the affair for good, and creating a more authentic, out-loud future, whether with the MAP, or not.

 

It is the same for the BS, too.

 

The only one who stands to lose is the MAP, in that either the OW or the BS will not want them anymore.

 

 

That's what I thought when I emailed wife of exMM. First he said he was divorced. Then it was just a matter of time and she wouldn't agree to give him a divorce. So not knowing what to believe (and already seeing him as a liar) I emailed her thinking one way or another this will be resolved.

 

His response "I wish you didn't feel you needed to do that." No cursing me out. No get away. Two weeks later he was back. So I thought this meant he was choosing me, and maybe we had a chance.

 

I have no idea what he told her. But they are still married and he continued to cheat after dday. So just be prepared to let things go. Realize you can only control how you react. The wife may not want a divorce and he may not want a divorce bad enough to force the issue. (I think 75 percent of all divorces are filed by the woman).

[MissBee]

That's what I thought when I emailed wife of exMM. First he said he was divorced. Then it was just a matter of time and she wouldn't agree to give him a divorce. So not knowing what to believe (and already seeing him as a liar) I emailed her thinking one way or another this will be resolved.

 

His response "I wish you didn't feel you needed to do that." No cursing me out. No get away. Two weeks later he was back. So I thought this meant he was choosing me, and maybe we had a chance.

 

I have no idea what he told her. But they are still married and he continued to cheat after dday. So just be prepared to let things go. Realize you can only control how you react. The wife may not want a divorce and he may not want a divorce bad enough to force the issue. (I think 75 percent of all divorces are filed by the woman).

 

This is true...telling the wife is not necessarily a sure-fire way to end the A. So you need to find your own strength and not use exposure as a means to end it, implying that once "others" are monitoring it, then your lack of self control won't matter as it will be managed and curtailed by other people, even if you wanted to start up again.

 

Some wives won't believe you, some won't care, some will take the person back, some will buy the MP's lies and turn a blind eye and then the person will try to restart it...and at that point, if you take them back...welll you may want to slap yourself...and at that point it is proven that it is a certified mess.

 

It then boils down to....you have the power to stop you. You can't expect an angry BS, an angry family member, friend, church, workplace to be the ones to control your life...as at the end of the day, barring physically locking you away, these folks cannot stop this person from resuming their affair and you have no clue how they will respond and it may not be how you think they would, for better or worse, so might as well make the decision to just do what you need to do for yourself without involving all sorts of others, hoping that their involvement/knowledge will be what stops you guys.

[bentnotbroken]

I am surprised that a marital advice site would suggest exposure other than to the most intimate/trusted of the BS friend/family and only in order to gain personal support needed to go through the ordeal. I think it is a bad idea to use it to try to shame the WS or in thought that it will end the A or help reconciliation. In my case, BW did tell several people including his exW and their daughter (which I think is out-of-line). It didn’t help. It made him angry and he simply turned it around to seem like he was innocent and she was nuts. As the OW, I would only expose the A to my closest only in need of advice/support. I’d never tell anyone if I knew I would be shamed upon.

 

So he gas lighted her to make himself look better in the eyes of those people who his actions might disappoint? Interesting...

[bentnotbroken]

Is it not vindictive/coercion to tell the world about a perceived wrong with ultimate goal being to shame them into whatever mold another person wants? To me it's sick.

 

 

Really no sicker than trying to shame people of other political views, parenting views or views against cheating.

[bentnotbroken]

I fail to see how a person can be prosecuted for telling the truth! If you are speaking of slander or liable they cannot if it is fact.

You can't be prosecuted for telling the truth. A couple of teachers in my kids school were dismissed(via contracts not being renewed) because they had an affair and it was common knowledge in the community and school.

 

I didn't read marriage builders(what for?) but I told who ever I felt like telling and it was not my job to cover anyone else's behind for them.

[donnamaybe]

You can't be prosecuted for telling the truth. A couple of teachers in my kids school were dismissed(via contracts not being renewed) because they had an affair and it was common knowledge in the community and school.

 

I didn't read marriage builders(what for?) but I told who ever I felt like telling and it was not my job to cover anyone else's behind for them.

 

That would be one helluva civil rights violation - jailing a person for verbalizing facts.

[woinlove]

Whatever is discovered in a marriage should be on a need to know basis, using discretion.

 

This seems to be suggesting that the BS should be required to keep the secret unless someone needs to know. I don't think anyone involved should feel compelled to keep things secret. As I said earlier, I think the AP can tell whoever they wish, as they might for any major R in their life. They may want to keep it secret, but, they should not feel compelled to. Similarly for the BS.

 

As to whether telling others about the A is a good strategy for the AP, I think besides the obvious of most people not wanting to be involved in severe deception of another (so they might tell whoever would otherwise be deceived, such as the BS), telling others for support can be positive, but they might also open themselves up to criticism. Ultimately that might still be positive, or it might not be.

[Elizabeth Southerns]

I see an awful lot of declarations of "fact" regarding law when it is clear.there is no legal knowledge whatsoever.

 

A legal secretary might pretend knowledge of the law, through second-hand osmosis, but some of us are trained and certificated in labour law ourselves.

[Silly_Girl]

to carry the analogy to a drug addiction further, I have always heard that it is easier to "kick" an addiction if one has a strong support system in place to help provide strength and understanding when it is needed.

 

An awful lot of affair partners on here who are trying to work through the end of their relationships seem so very sad and alone. Perhaps by "coming out" about their affair ending they may find that they do have a support system to help them through the times they are really sad and lonely.

 

while internet support is fine, it doesn't take the place of having someone you can talk to in person, who really knows you and will be there for you with a kind word and support.

 

I agree with this. Real life support is vital. Friends/family who KNOW you, know what makes you tick, where you've been emotionally, what might be most likely to affect you. The affair insight here can be good, it can be very accurate and wide but it's about affairs, not about YOU as an individual. Both parts are important in taking decisions and managing emotions. I'm so glad I talked to my friends, mum, sister. They helped me make the right decisions as did online support.

[katielee]

gotta weigh in on this: I told my BS one month into the A and thanks to my BS threatening MM, it ended 2 months later. MM never told his wife. 6 months later my BS told OMW, however, they didn't know that the relationship was a physical one. Fast forward over a year since the A had been over and I knew I didn't have an authentic marriage unless my BS knew the absolute truth about the person he was married to. I told him. I did not have a right to keep that from him and make decisions about our marriage that he doesn't know about. That same night I called OMW and told her the truth. It was her right to know she was married to a liar. She deserves an authentic marriage too. Also, I didn't know what my BS would do to OM and I needed to warn her.

Any fallout OM received (and I think they're still together) from me exposing is his own damn fault. And i bet he is still lying his butt off but that's their problem.

[thomasb]

Would you include yourself in the bolded, since you were also a WS? Or do you hold such views only about others but not about yourself?

 

 

 

Of course I do. I've done the work to improve my character and live in honesty and truth. I quit the job, (after confessing to my wife) I worked at with the OW and went back to school for my masters. Best decision I ever made. it has been over a decade now. And I can honestly say I live my life with integrity and the truth. It is a great feeling. More people should try it sometime.

[Silly_Girl]

Of course I do. I've done the work to improve my character and live in honesty and truth. I quit the job, (after confessing to my wife) I worked at with the OW and went back to school for my masters. Best decision I ever made. it has been over a decade now. And I can honestly say I live my life with integrity and the truth. It is a great feeling. More people should try it sometime.

 

So overall the outcome is more positive than negative for you personally? Or would you disagree?